MMORPG.com writer Phil James takes some time this week to tackle the idea of an EverQuest III and what he'd want to see done with the world of Norrath.

When thinking about my ideal sequel to Everquest, a lot of consideration has gone into my characters. After all, I am going to be spending a lot of time looking at them and clicking their abilities. So here is my (occasionally unrealistic) character wish list for EQIII.

The world of Norrath already has an impressive number of playable races. Usually once you have selected your race, you enter the world and you get the same experience as everyone else. People start in the same areas and do the same quests regardless of their background.

Back in the day when EQII was new, we all started out as poor wretches left homeless by the shattering of the world. We were rescued and taken by boat to the Isle of Refuge where we earned our place in the new society. This idea has fallen by the wayside, the boat part doesn’t even exist now and the starter islands are soon for the chop too. I miss the origin story, and would like it to return as it adds lots of flavour and creates great memories. Dragon Age has several origin stories for you to play through depending on your race/class, and EQIII could borrow from this.

Read Wishes for EverQuest III - Pt. 2.

Does anyone remember EQII's original class system? I thought it was cool and unique, I was dissapointed when they changed it to what it is now...

Originally posted by Xondar123

Does anyone remember EQII's original class system? I thought it was cool and unique, I was dissapointed when they changed it to what it is now...

You mean where you started as an arch type... picked a sub class at 10 through a quest and then your actual class at 20 through another quest....

Original? It was basically a system in which each class was divided into two classes. Warlocks AE while Wizards DD, Necros DD while Conjurors AE (both with pets), Dirges buff melee and Troub's buff casters...

What is it like now?

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Xondar123

Does anyone remember EQII's original class system? I thought it was cool and unique, I was dissapointed when they changed it to what it is now...

 

You mean where you started as an arch type... picked a sub class at 10 through a quest and then your actual class at 20 through another quest....

 

Yeah exactly. You essentially chose your class in the game intead of making the choice at the character select screen. I thought it was a cool and unique idea. Which of course meant they took it out after WoW dropped.

Agreed

Alot of what your suggesting is really some of the core around what made EQ1 so different and nostolgic for alot of us older core gamers.

In EQ1 People Did (at least back in the day not sure of now) start off in completely different areas. Races had their own language even though common tongue was known by all. Sure they didnt have Starting stories but the whole MMO thing was fairly new and still developing. So much beginning areas stuff though would pretty much be rushed thru.. Then people would ask in the long run for the devs to just take it out because players are tired of running thru the story stuff and just want to get to max level.

the whole point of bards.. didnt they used to have to twist their songs together... IE hitting diffferent things to get different effects pretty much the same thing..

The problem is most gamers these days want everything handed it to them. They dont want to have to earn or work for anything. Most dont want to even have to explore.... With current mentality different starting areas mean they cant start off with their friends. God forbid they try to make new ones.. That would mean PUGGING. Which most Post WOWers hate doing.

Another thing is classes that can do things outside of combat..Utility wise that some classes might not have... You know like you read about in novels wizards that can teleport or rogues that can pick locks or pick pockets. Things that they can do that other classes are not capable. Well while many of us oldschoolers like that type of thing. Those types of abilities are now catagorized as class imbalances. Which get people crying why are they able to do things I cant. That isnt fair.

While I very much would love to see an Everquest 3 game.. Built around alot of the core principles of Everquest 1.. with some more modern touches. I personally feel the majority of most modern gamers wouldnt like it..

My dream of EQ3 would be a much improved upon Vanguard like game. Open Huge game world but with much better art style than what Vanguard had to offer. Based upon Norrath. Pre Shattering though

EQ2 was like a bad dream of SOE which unfortunately they seem to refuse to wake up from.

i can't imagine playing any mmo that charges a monthly fee for longer than the trial period these days, to this day everquest 1 is still my favourite but with runes of magic and allods around ... who would want to subscribe anymore ? 

Originally posted by kingbenny

i can't imagine playing any mmo that charges a monthly fee for longer than the trial period these days, to this day everquest 1 is still my favourite but with runes of magic and allods around ... who would want to subscribe anymore ? 

 

Play RoM and Allods and compare them to a game you could stick to for a long period of time.

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Alot of what your suggesting is really some of the core around what made EQ1 so different and nostolgic for alot of us older core gamers.

In EQ1 People Did (at least back in the day not sure of now) start off in completely different areas. Races had their own language even though common tongue was known by all. Sure they didnt have Starting stories but the whole MMO thing was fairly new and still developing. So much beginning areas stuff though would pretty much be rushed thru.. Then people would ask in the long run for the devs to just take it out because players are tired of running thru the story stuff and just want to get to max level.

the whole point of bards.. didnt they used to have to twist their songs together... IE hitting diffferent things to get different effects pretty much the same thing..

The problem is most gamers these days want everything handed it to them. They dont want to have to earn or work for anything. Most dont want to even have to explore.... With current mentality different starting areas mean they cant start off with their friends. God forbid they try to make new ones.. That would mean PUGGING. Which most Post WOWers hate doing.

Another thing is classes that can do things outside of combat..Utility wise that some classes might not have... You know like you read about in novels wizards that can teleport or rogues that can pick locks or pick pockets. Things that they can do that other classes are not capable. Well while many of us oldschoolers like that type of thing. Those types of abilities are now catagorized as class imbalances. Which get people crying why are they able to do things I cant. That isnt fair.

While I very much would love to see an Everquest 3 game.. Built around alot of the core principles of Everquest 1.. with some more modern touches. I personally feel the majority of most modern gamers wouldnt like it..

My dream of EQ3 would be a much improved upon Vanguard like game. Open Huge game world but with much better art style than what Vanguard had to offer. Based upon Norrath. Pre Shattering though

EQ2 was like a bad dream of SOE which unfortunately they seem to refuse to wake up from.

 Speak for yourself about what gamers want today. Though i do think there are some that want the game handed to them i think thats just a low percentage. Problem is Game developers make the game so tedious and boring while ur exploring and trying to level that you just dont want to do the content because everything is at the end anyways. If they had captivating gameplay no one would want the retarded level grind that is necessary to Level. And there should be a feature that if you max level your toon you should be able select rather or not u want ur ALT can get xp quicker after the game has been out for a year or so. Like in EQ2 now there is good content at the lower levels but there is no one there to play it with so its boring and retarded to do so everyone wants to level quick. When eq2 first came out they made the game so Group oriented that you couldnt even think about getting decent xp if you had to solo for a lil bit while lookin for a group. And so u just had to sit there if u were most classes till u found a group which became hard after the first month. The Group mobs ruined MMO's n my opinion and thats what made EQ1 to me so enjoyable, because every mob gave the same amount of xp based on level , if u were in a group u could just murder countless mobs and if u were tryin to find a group u still get decent xp if u had to solo for a few until a opening arose.

P.S. Capitolism Ruined The MMO!!!

Originally posted by kingbenny

i can't imagine playing any mmo that charges a monthly fee for longer than the trial period these days, to this day everquest 1 is still my favourite but with runes of magic and allods around ... who would want to subscribe anymore ? 

 This is the problem with MMO's today... community members like this with this F2P gaming entitlement who feels they should always get something (or everything) for nothing... This is also a gamer completely content with mediocrity because anyone who has played either of the games the poster mentioned knows end gae costs hundreds if not thousands of real cash to be competative with the exhorborant cash shop items.

Back to the subject of ficticious sequels... If I wanted to imagine any games sequel it would be DAoC 2... Full modernize that game with todays technology with the three class system, realm pride!

So my wish for EQIII would be it is DAoC 2!

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Another thing is classes that can do things outside of combat..Utility wise that some classes might not have... You know like you read about in novels wizards that can teleport or rogues that can pick locks or pick pockets. Things that they can do that other classes are not capable. Well while many of us oldschoolers like that type of thing. Those types of abilities are now catagorized as class imbalances. Which get people crying why are they able to do things I cant. That isnt fair.

 You know there is a MMO that has exactly these type of things and so many more unique and interesting mechanics for individual classes...

Just off the top of my head -

1. One class can teleport, conjur food/drink, create portals, transfigure things..

2. Soul stealing, demon pets, ritualistic summons, life drains...

3. pick pockets, trap disarms, lock picking, stealth, poisons...

4. companion pet that's customizable, setting and using traps, specialized feign deaths and disengages...

5. shamanistic totems, customizable effects/enchantments and totem selection.

6. shape shifting, multiple roles, unique utility heals and mana regenerations, combat rezzing...

7. build up of rage/fury, used on special abilities, different stances to maximize effectiveness in various combat roles...

8. undead minions, unique rune and resource mechanics, unique mounts and teleportation...

9. unique form changes, varied and versitile healing/damage prevention toolbox including shields

10. special short term invulnerability, unique buffs, true hybridization between roles, unique summon mounts

Originally posted by heerobya

 

 You know there is a MMO that has exactly these type of things and so many more unique and interesting mechanics for individual classes...

Yes, and we know that MMO is pretty much a ripoff of other MMOs, RPGs, and books, sooooo.....

What SOE needs to do is get back to "The Vision:" Not necessarily the vision that we all think of when remembering all the canned responses to player complaints in EQ. "The Vision" should be an overall defining purpose for the game and what the developers want to achieve and bring to the players. Given the sheer number of MMOs out there and the number that are clones and hybrids of other games, you would likely develop a niche market that didn't grow much, but over time, you could be the powerhouse player. (I use CCP Games and EVE Online as the example here. Nobody has had the success they have had over time in subscription MMOs. If the game was as easy to play as WoW, everyone would be saying "WoW who?") Compromises to the vision should be very few and thoroughly thought through.

I'm not sure what I want out of an EQ3 but here are some ideas that sound appealing to me:

1. Skill Chains - Not a new concept but LotRO does this really well with Warden gambits.  It is a really fun class to play because the gambits allow for dynamic combat.

2. Crafting - Recipes that allow for different outputs with different component combinations.  Or possibly a stat pool that allows the crafter to assign a number of points to a variety of stats available how they see fit.

3. Harvesting - Instead of static nodes everyone fights for an area would have a certain amount of each resource type.  Players would have a skill or trait that would allow them to "detect" nodes.  These nodes would only be visible to and harvested by that player.  As the player harvest a node the total resource pool in the area is depleted.  This would allow players to compete for resources without actually fighting over specific nodes.  A player with a higher resource detection would find and harvest more than a player with low resource detection, but would necessarily get all the nodes just because they're more advanced.  It would also prevent players from scanning the horizon for choice nodes and cherry picking.

4. Classes - Fewer classes with greater customization within that archetype.  Instead of having Conjys or Necros there would just be summoners who could learn from wider variety of spells within each subtype.  It could even go so far as to only have a mage archetype with AAs and spells determining class functionality.  Maybe AAs could determine and change how some spells actually function.

5. Multiple Play Styles - Different play styles provide different avenues to success.  Soloers, Small Groups/Guilds, and Raiders would all have avenues to good gear, reputation/faction rewards, crafting, and other benefits.

6. Configurable Gear Rewards - Players can affect and adjust their gear rewards from quests or epic/raid bosses.  This would work similarly to how I described crafting above. Players would be able to adjust stats somewhat on gear rewards.  This would mean there doesn't have to be pvp/pve gear and would mean characters don't have to gear all the same.  If a character wants more of one stat or less of another there would be flex room to adjust that.

7. Every Stat Is Useful - Every stat should be useful to a class.  Different stats could affect spells/skills in a different way so if you built a combat mage, adding to strength would not only add to your melee damage but affect the functionality of your buffs/debuffs and combat spells.  This could allow the same class to be played very differently, yet effectively, by building different stats along with the AA affects I described in point 4 above.

8. A More Seamless World - I like how games such as Lineage or LotRO have vast overland areas that give the world a very seamless feel as opposed to AoC or even EQ2 which have a loading screen for every zone.  Even though there are loading screens in a few places in LotRO much of the main world feels unified.

Originally posted by Wighty

Originally posted by kingbenny

i can't imagine playing any mmo that charges a monthly fee for longer than the trial period these days, to this day everquest 1 is still my favourite but with runes of magic and allods around ... who would want to subscribe anymore ? 

 This is the problem with MMO's today... community members like this with this F2P gaming entitlement who feels they should always get something (or everything) for nothing... This is also a gamer completely content with mediocrity because anyone who has played either of the games the poster mentioned knows end gae costs hundreds if not thousands of real cash to be competative with the exhorborant cash shop items.

 

Back to the subject of ficticious sequels... If I wanted to imagine any games sequel it would be DAoC 2... Full modernize that game with todays technology with the three class system, realm pride!

 

So my wish for EQIII would be it is DAoC 2!

 QFT! F2P MMO's are worthless. Micro Transactions are also worthless, Subscriptions higher then 9.99 are worthless. and if you do pay 14.99 for  a sub, EXPANSION PACS should be free. u pay 14.99 for content updates and thats all a expac is.

CAPITOLISM RUINED THE MMO and gaming in general, look at what activision is doing to the CoD series just because they cant release a CoD every year. WORTHLESS COMPANY BOYCOTT ALL ACTIVISION GAMES PERIOD. they need to learn that its quality not quanity that makes a game sell. You keep releasing crap every year no one is going to buy the game u release a quality game every 2 years or 3 u sell millions. so back to my point CAPITOLISM is RUINING GAMING.

You're vision of an EQ3 sounds fun!  

I'm not quite in line with many gamers as I enjoy the ride, not just the destination - which is how I view "END GAME".  Raiding is fun the first couple times but to raid 3-5x a week, no thanks!  I'd rather level a new class/race, go explore the world I haven't seen, do the quests I missed on the other toon, craft, decorate the house, run the dungeon I missed, etc.  Anything but grind an instance or raid for new gear so I can raid for new gear so I can raid for new gear - ugh!

Personally I like to solo as well a group and I'm very happy when a game addresses both.  I don't want to be forced into a group if I'm in the mood to wander, but don't want to miss content because I can't find a group either.  Mentoring in EQ2 is great as you're not being carried the same as being 'run' in other games.

Class mechanics - the bard mechanics would be very cool. Not sure I'd like the ranger ones - FPS perspective makes me ill, but the idea is great.  Raiders would  hate it, but it would be a challenge.  I like AoC's combat - its not complicated but you do have to pay a bit of attention.

Honestly I think there are a high number of MMO players that do want  fun, huge worlds to explore, variety in class/spec/characterization and a bit of challenge.  Not impossible but some challenge.  I think of console games (mostly older ones) that can take some work to succeed in certain areas.  Not, I tried it doesn't work -  time to go QQ in the forums.

Originally posted by Goldknyght

Originally posted by Wighty

Originally posted by kingbenny

i can't imagine playing any mmo that charges a monthly fee for longer than the trial period these days, to this day everquest 1 is still my favourite but with runes of magic and allods around ... who would want to subscribe anymore ? 

 This is the problem with MMO's today... community members like this with this F2P gaming entitlement who feels they should always get something (or everything) for nothing... This is also a gamer completely content with mediocrity because anyone who has played either of the games the poster mentioned knows end gae costs hundreds if not thousands of real cash to be competative with the exhorborant cash shop items.

 Back to the subject of ficticious sequels... If I wanted to imagine any games sequel it would be DAoC 2... Full modernize that game with todays technology with the three class system, realm pride!

 So my wish for EQIII would be it is DAoC 2!

 QFT! F2P MMO's are worthless. Micro Transactions are also worthless, Subscriptions higher then 9.99 are worthless. and if you do pay 14.99 for  a sub, EXPANSION PACS should be free. u pay 14.99 for content updates and thats all a expac is.

CAPITOLISM RUINED THE MMO and gaming in general, look at what activision is doing to the CoD series just because they cant release a CoD every year. WORTHLESS COMPANY BOYCOTT ALL ACTIVISION GAMES PERIOD. they need to learn that its quality not quanity that makes a game sell. You keep releasing crap every year no one is going to buy the game u release a quality game every 2 years or 3 u sell millions. so back to my point CAPITOLISM is RUINING GAMING.

Capitolism is the only reason that MMOs exist.  Without it, EQ1 would never have been made.  DAoC would never have gotten made.  UO would SERIOUSLY never have been made.  No one goes into business without a model in place for how to make money doing what they're doing.  If you don't like the model, don't buy into it.  Don't like microtransactions?  Don't buy them.  Don't like subscription fees?  Don't pay them.  Don't like F2P?  *record scratch*  Wait, you're railing against capitolism, but you also hate not paying for games?  WTF?

What are you? Socialist?

As for you, Phil, I like your ideas.  I love the mini-game concept for the bard.  I'm not sure how well it would work out for other classes, but I think giving each class something unique, like a unique way to participate in a fight, would be both creative and innovative.

Sadly, almost every example of a class difference in gameplay that you mention can be scripted.  Within a month after your game was released, someone would release a 3rd-party program that would automatically tap the appropriate notes for your Bard, no matter how many songs he was twisting together.  It would auto-aim the headshots for your Ranger, and auto-draw the spell runes for your mage, perfectly each time.

Thus, the developers could not afford to give actual advantages to characters that did these things well, as the 3rd-party programs would do them as well as any human could, and probably better, and if there were an advantage to it, everyone would be 'forced' to use the 3rd-party program to keep up.

MMOs have been fighting against the scripting-cheats/advantages since UO and before, and they've never been able to put a stop to them, or even slow down the usage that much.  The script writers have gotten better and better as making the scripts seem like human input.  Some games are so desperate to stop this cheating that they require you to install ridiculous software that takes over your entire OS in an attempt to detect and prevent the 3rd-party programs.  And yet that still doesn't stop the scripters.

That's why most MMOs don't make complicated, skilled, timing-type micro-games as part of their combat (or crafting, or anything) as MMOs are competitive, and the players will use any advantage they can get.  Single-player games can get away with that type of gameplay, because you're only playing against yourself, and what's the fun in cheating there?

I like your idea for the bard. That would be alot of fun. And i am sure that they could figure out the other class's.

getting back on track from the venom spewing boycotter...

I would like to see *more*, not less of the path choosing/class choosing.  the original fell by the wayside because you *forgot* skills as you went up.  Suddenly your tank type who had from 1-10 been using a sword could not do so any longer because he was a monk.  That had a crappy feel to it.  skills you used shouldn't just vanish or be forgotton - but i wouldnt  have a problem with them never going past lvl 10 abilities either. 

Personally i'm a little tired of artificial weapon proficencies.  spears for shaman?  really?  range weapons are basically forbidden to clerical classes - what's up with that?  why are clerical classes restricted from swords? (dungeons and dragons this ain't - so why are we harnessed with that arbitrary rule?)

I would like to see a break away from 'class balancing' and more of 'game balancing.'  Fpr instance - (no pun intended) some of us will never, ever raid.  Tried it.  didn't care for it.  Might try it again but unlikely to devote my characters lives to it.  They're not going to stop making raids and raid zones that i'm never going to go into - i could care less, other than the raiders thinking they're some how special because they like to raid and i don't.

So why not have a choice about it?  get to lvl 50 or whenever the raids start in whatever game and be able to *choose* to take a more raid focused path over a solo/duo/small group path.  and make it stick - no more people whining that no one wants a necro in a raid - well, look at your choice dude - you chose to take a character built for solo. 

Right now thats going on but people are whining because it isn't an obvious choice.  I think they should make it a more obvious choice.  choose to buy a skillset and go from necromancer to, say soulweaver (or some other dramatic sounding name) and give them skill sets more useful to a large group.  Make them raid for the points to become such a thing in the first place in smaller places that unlock the bigger ones.  then they can tweak the classes for raiding and leave the non-raiders alone if they're happy the way they are.  Same for PvP - make actual PvP classes.  Earn some PvP points.  Unlock PvP zones and classes.  Leave the nonpvp classes alone.  Make spells that screw up pvp just not work for the pvp classes - that'll learn em.  and will give people who dont' want to pvp a chance to keep abilities that pvpers loathe - because it won't make a difference.

Yeah, i know most people hate pvp zones as opposed to servers.  I don't.  I've played PvP - i'm just not in the mood for it day after day so i can't really build up a character on a pvp server.  I played and enjoyed pvp when my hunting partner was online - which didn't happen often enough. 

Something to steal from a pvp game i actually liked - i'd like there to be stealable bases.  that would be some pvp for sure - to defend a base/dungeon you took over, cleared of monsters... let antoher guild try to take that base.  i'd like to see it so only an actual guild (give them a leetle flag) could sit on it - but they could hire in nonguildies to help them kick out the previous dudes - including the respawned now loyal monsters. 

I dunno, it just seems like it would be hard and fun and ...yeah.