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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » A casual MMO...

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  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:19:51 AM#1

So, two good friends of mine decided they want to go back and give WoW another whirl, especially in anticipation of Cataclysm coming out (which, I'll admit does look rather nice). Talking with them about it, it occurred to me that it'd be fun to play to with friends again, and lo and behold there was a free "come back and see what we've been up to" 7 day trial awaiting me. Perfect! It turns out my friends can't come back yet due to an unexpected rl situation that has their funds rather tied up (hand surgery, casts, time out of work w/out pay and high hospital bills...hooray!), so I figure "well, let me give the game a look and I can just resub at the end if it's looking good.

Well, I have to thank Blizzard for the free 7 days, really, because they saved me money that would have led to nothing but profuse face-palming.

Seems that since last time I played, Blizzard has done the seemingly impossible and made playing WoW, particularly questing in this case, even more brain-dead, by adding a built-in quest tracker that shows you exactly where you have to go for each quest, exactly where the spots are where you have to kill mobs... etc. etc.

I mean... seriously? How much  hand-holding to people really need? Are people becoming *that* lazy? Well.. that's a rhetorical question, I guess.

I looked for a way to disable all that but nothing I found seemed to work. I'd really rather just, you know, play the game and figure things out on my own withou being shown exactly where I need to go. Seems Blizzard's determined to make sure they leave out all sense of exploration or "figuring it out for myself"... heaven forbid I have to use any critical thinking skills in their game.

... relevant detour...

I mean, I had gotten a great indication of this during the 'outcry' about the Mankirk's Wife quest some time back. A large group of players responded to that quest with a chorus of, "What? We have to read and pay attention to the quest dialog to get an idea of where we have to go? BLASPHEMY!! You effed this one up, Blizzard!!".

I remember it being a joke of how much Blizzard "botched" that quest. Turns out, when I came around to doing it... it was freaking *easy*. Right in the quest text it says they were attacked on the Southern Golden Road... HINT ALERT! HINT ALERT!

Seemed to me that might just be the place to start looking... so I did. Lo and behold... found Mankirk's wife's lifeless body a mere 10 minutes after starting the quest from Crossroads. Yeah... Blizzard *really* botched that up by expecting players to - gasp - use elementary school reading skills to complete it.

It's not like I'm some brainiac with a PHD in Everything. I used basic common sense and about 20 seconds of effort to actually read the quest dialog. Apparently that's just far too much to ask for some. So in no way is this about me patting myself on the back for being "super intelligent". It's more about how damn lazy so many others are.

... end relevant detour ...

Anyway... back to my point.

So... at this point, it seems to me the only step left to take for Blizzard is to implement an "Autoplay" function, where you queue up the quests you want to do, hit "go" and your character will automatically go to each spot, complete each objective - fighting and all - and go back to turn the quests in... While you watch, like it's some kind of TV show where you're merely a passive spectator rather than an active participant.

Not sure that would work, though.. It might offend some people's frail sensitivities that they have to do "all that clicking" to queue up the quests they need to do. For them, Blizzard could just implement a checkbox that says "Complete All Active Quests" and, bingo. They've got potentially hours of passive entertainment where they don't need to do a thing. I get the impression that would be heaven for some.

Seriously, though... how much more brain-dead can Blizzard possibly make this game?

Anyways... again, I realize the game obviously still applies to millions so, yes, no one needs to remind me. It just astounds me that there are those who think being led by the nose to such a degree, so all they're doing is going through the motions is "fun". My sister, sadly, is one of them. I was talking to her about it last night and she was all "Oh isn't that awesome!! Now I know exactly where to go and dont' have to spend all that time running around with no idea what to do. That annoys the hell out of me". When I told her the quest dialog tells you what to do, she says "Yeah, but I don't bother reading all that". So... there you go...

Then again... perhaps it's a reason why people are becoming more and more bored with the so-called "casual MMO"... and don't even realize it.

  Shastra

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/07
Posts: 1123

5/08/10 7:27:00 AM#2

Thanks for an original topic and 'i am better then the millions' attitude.

  Aercus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/09
Posts: 800

5/08/10 7:30:55 AM#3

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:31:22 AM#4
Originally posted by Shastra

Thanks for an original topic and 'i am better then the millions' attitude.

 

You obviously missed this bit:

"It's not like I'm some brainiac with a PHD in Everything. I used basic common sense and about 20 seconds of effort to actually read the quest dialog. Apparently that's just far too much to ask for some. So in no way is this about me patting myself on the back for being "super intelligent". It's more about how damn lazy so many others are."

I don't think I'm better than anyone... that's the point. I'm simply wondering at what point Blizzard says 'you know.. the game is convenient enough as it is'.

[Mod Edit]

  pbowman

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/31/07
Posts: 33

5/08/10 7:32:38 AM#5

You do realize quest helper was an add on that was down loaded , so it wasn't Blizzards idea.  Apparently it was what the millions of fans wanted.

I do agree that in some regards the game is easier  than it was years ago, but most games as the years go by do get easier, at least that is what I have found.  Bottom line is if you don't like it, don't play it.  Some do some don't, but apparently a few have to come on the forums and tell how dumb everyone else is for playing it. 

  User Deleted
5/08/10 7:37:12 AM#6

WoW is a power levelers game. Basically a race to endgame where it transforms itself into a diabloish dungeon crawl for items.

Anyone that disagrees with this is the exception and not the rule.

  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:38:19 AM#7
Originally posted by Aercus

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

A bit excessive? What is? Asking, on a message forum, at what point does Blizzard stop making the game easier?

Do you disagree that adding something like that to the game (I'm aware it's been an add-on, but now it's officially provided by the developers) takes pretty much everything other than pushing W,S,A,D and some number pushing out of completing the quests?

It's a relevant question... especially when there are those out there who have been staunch supporters of WoW for years who are starting to feel the same way. A guy in my former guild who was a WoW fanboy to the Nth degree - and readily and proudly admitted it - finally got sick of it and cancelled. That's saying a lot.

That's two responses which basically knock the post rather than address it.

It's more than an 'x' on the map.. It's blobs of color covering areas where quest mobs are... it's very present yellow circles showing exactly where every quest is you have on your tracker...

My point is, they have taken every bit of exploration or "figuring it out for yourself" out of questing in their game, making it little more than connect the dots.

Again, I argue that it's probably a good indication of why people are getting sick of the whole "casual friendly" thing anyway... not just WoW, but the others out there modeled after it.

  nikoliath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 1182

An MMO FAN

enjoying
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GW2 pre-purchased

5/08/10 7:38:32 AM#8

Woaahhh. A page of text to say;

 

"I don't like the quest helper".

 

Not sure what to say in reply tbh. If you want something more challenging perhaps look to a different genre? I can, at no point, recall feeling clever because I could read quest dialogue. Don't tell me, flat-pack is now far to easy as it comes with a diagram showing you what to do.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

5/08/10 7:39:38 AM#9

I will sell you something for 15/month and 50/expansion if you want that you will never have to touch or even look at. I gaurantee you can watch TV or anything else while you enjoy my game.

 

Boy, that above sounds stupid, but i think alot of WoW players would buy it!

  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:40:58 AM#10
Originally posted by pbowman

You do realize quest helper was an add on that was down loaded , so it wasn't Blizzards idea.  Apparently it was what the millions of fans wanted.

I do agree that in some regards the game is easier  than it was years ago, but most games as the years go by do get easier, at least that is what I have found.  Bottom line is if you don't like it, don't play it.  Some do some don't, but apparently a few have to come on the forums and tell how dumb everyone else is for playing it. 


No where did I say people are dumb. Do I need to quote myself *again* where I say I don't think I'm some kind of brainiac? I ask the question are people really that *lazy* that it's too much to read some quest dialog and use elementary level reading (which I assume everyone has... hence the comment) to figure something out for themself. I used the Mankirk's Wife quest as an example of an easy quest that required nothing more than 20 or 30 seconds of elementary level reading that people made a big fuss over... not because they're "dumb", but because it apparently didn't occur to them to *read* the quest dialog.

No where do I call people dumb. That's the interpretation you're applying to it.

If you have to misconstrue what I say to make an argument, then you have no argument to make.

  Aercus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/09
Posts: 800

5/08/10 7:44:46 AM#11
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by Aercus

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

A bit excessive? What is? Asking, on a message forum, at what point does Blizzard stop making the game easier?

Do you disagree that adding something like that to the game (I'm aware it's been an add-on, but now it's officially provided by the developers) takes pretty much everything other than pushing W,S,A,D and some number pushing out of completing the quests?

It's a relevant question... especially when there are those out there who have been staunch supporters of WoW for years who are starting to feel the same way. A guy in my former guild who was a WoW fanboy to the Nth degree - and readily and proudly admitted it - finally got sick of it and cancelled. That's saying a lot.

That's two responses which basically knock the post rather than address it.

It's more than an 'x' on the map.. It's blobs of color covering areas where quest mobs are... it's very present yellow circles showing exactly where every quest is you have on your tracker...

My point is, they have taken every bit of exploration or "figuring it out for yourself" out of questing in their game, making it little more than connect the dots.

Again, I argue that it's probably a good indication of why people are getting sick of the whole "casual friendly" thing anyway... not just WoW, but the others out there modeled after it.

What you describe sounds excellent to me. I always read the quest dialogue, but I'm not much of an explorer, and my gaming time is limited. Having to write down the dialogue and spending 20-30 minutes finding the objective just eats up all my time, which is why games without 'X marks the spot' probably won't be getting my gaming dollars. I like spending my time accomplishing objectives, not finding them.

There is an easy fix though, don't use the map :)

Edit: If you don't intend to talk down to people I would suggest to edit your OP to seem less like you are doing so...

  Manestream

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/03
Posts: 563

5/08/10 7:44:57 AM#12

ye was just goign to say something like quest tracker alot of people downloaded and used (i myself didnt), once i had done a quest i can more or less remember it for yrs (god i can not remember quest title names but if someone asked what to do in classic wow and were i would tell them). I think blizard made their own to get rid of these add-ons that i think were lagging up some peeps pc's/server strain.

I just wish they made one were you could move the whole interface to were you want and how you want and bring up extra quickbars instead.

Me, i don't know if i will be gettign Catacysm at all yet. Dont see anything due out anytime soon either.

  nikoliath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 1182

An MMO FAN

enjoying
SWTOR
GW2 pre-purchased

5/08/10 7:45:13 AM#13
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by Aercus

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

 

It's a relevant question... especially when there are those out there who have been staunch supporters of WoW for years who are starting to feel the same way. A guy in my former guild who was a WoW fanboy to the Nth degree - and readily and proudly admitted it - finally got sick of it and cancelled. That's saying a lot.

 

Again, I argue that it's probably a good indication of why SOME people are getting sick of the whole "casual friendly" thing anyway... not just WoW, but the others out there modeled after it.

Err the only "telling" thing about point 1 is that after years of playing he grew tired of it? Happens to thousands of players of every genre.

 

  beartoe

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 63

5/08/10 7:45:14 AM#14

I don't think I'm better than anyone... that's the point. I'm simply wondering at what point Blizzard says 'you know.. the game is convenient enough as it is'.

 

as some one else had stated - quest tracker ingame is merely a tool that u can turn off to suit your needs. for a game thats been around for this long, players that already have max level don't need to re-read every dam quest line again for theire new alts.. hence questhelper addon was made long before blizzard decided to make theire own version of "quest tracker" for players to use.

 

 

  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:45:35 AM#15
Originally posted by nikoliath

Woaahhh. A page of text to say;

 

"I don't like the quest helper".

 

Not sure what to say in reply tbh. If you want something more challenging perhaps look to a different genre? I can, at no point, recall feeling clever because I could read quest dialogue. Don't tell me, flat-pack is now far to easy as it comes with a diagram showing you what to do.

-sigh-

This thread so far is a great reminder to me to never try raising a question about how a developer - at least Blizzard - approaches their game... apparently it's too much for some to handle.

I'm raising a question, with specific details and at least one example... and so far all I've gotten are responses that either accuse me of having a superiority complex (which I don't have), or try to reduce it to me "not liking the quest helper".

Nevermind. I thought maybe there would be some interesting counter-points to be had here. I apparently forgot where I was posting.

 

 

  User Deleted
 
OP  5/08/10 7:50:16 AM#16
Originally posted by nikoliath
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by Aercus

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

 

It's a relevant question... especially when there are those out there who have been staunch supporters of WoW for years who are starting to feel the same way. A guy in my former guild who was a WoW fanboy to the Nth degree - and readily and proudly admitted it - finally got sick of it and cancelled. That's saying a lot.

 

Again, I argue that it's probably a good indication of why SOME people are getting sick of the whole "casual friendly" thing anyway... not just WoW, but the others out there modeled after it.

Err the only "telling" thing about point 1 is that after years of playing he grew tired of it? Happens to thousands of players of every genre.

 

Wow... Talk about being completely and utterly willfully ignorant.

The person in question used to *defend* Blizzard *making the game easier*... however, after a time he got sick of it enough to say "this is ridiculous already" and left. He didn't "get sick of the game" itself.. He loved the game world and everything else about it. He got sick of how Blizzard systematically made it easier and easier. If you'd read the statement in the context of my initial post, that should have been clear.

I guess I need to constantly put everything in the specific context around here or some people will (likely deliberately) take it out of context just so they can argue it.

Again... I apparently forgot where I was posting.

 

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

5/08/10 7:52:56 AM#17

I agree with OP. Just like so many other ideas in other MMO's in theory they sound good, but in reality they have some averse and sometimes majorly negative side effects.

 

What often is forgotten is the 'risk (of loss) vs reward' concept, that greatly enjoyable rewards should be balanced with a greater risk of loss or danger. People are naturally inclined to seek out the paths of least resistance, even if it means they are sacrificing long-term, more fulfilling pleasure by gaining a short term convenience.

But when you remove considerable parts of  risk, obstacles and difficult things in order to provide a smooth, bumpless ride, then you're also tampering with that feeling of discovery, exploration and hard-won victories and the sense of accomplishment and enjoyment that those  experiences gave. In short, the overall experience becomes blander.

There's a reason why people get thrilled by bungee jumping or parachute diving, or why many get more satisfaction when they find their own path to the top of a hill or that little hard-to-find spot in the forest with a great view, instead of just taking the tourbus to the designated spot.

Remove the edge, make things too simple, and you might lose more than you gain with an experience.

 

Of course, there'll be many WoW players - or MMO players in general - who disagree, but there's also enough people IRL who opt for the short term convenience instead of the more satisfying long term benefit that a healthier eating pattern instead of indulging in food can bring, or the moderate drinking that would prevent the major hangover, or the earlier studying instead of the day(s) before the exam, or the not putting yourself in major debt to buy all the stuff you want instead of being more conscious with buying and have more money available instead. Many choose the short term convenience, not the deeper, richer experience that a long term solution can bring (but that'd include not having that short term convenience)

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  User Deleted
5/08/10 7:52:57 AM#18

People don't leave WoW because questing is eazy.

They leave because they get tired of farming items just to farm more items.

Its WoWs Endgame and the way expansions make content worthless that gets most people to leave the game.

  Bloodaxes

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2604

5/08/10 7:56:45 AM#19

OP you think the people that are responding with silly assumptions/whatever have read all your first post? Just like they won't read a quest dialog they won't read all those words and will opt to read only the title and respond.

  MMO_Doubter

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 5133

5/08/10 8:02:21 AM#20
Originally posted by WSIMike
Originally posted by Aercus

Does seem a bit excessive over an X on a map (which you don't have to use)...

A bit excessive? What is? Asking, on a message forum, at what point does Blizzard stop making the game easier?

 

Dude, be honest. You were ranting, not asking a question.

I agree that Blizzard is dumbing down the game to an incredible degree. It sickens me. You don't need spices for recipes. You don't need wood and flint to make a fire. In Cata, warlocks won't need more than three soul shards, and they will just be power-ups. It goes on.

The absolute worst thing they have ever done, though, is - AOE tanking. It made dungeon runs just mindless grinds. No need for raid symbols (remember what a Godsend those were at first?) or CC. Hardly any need for aggro managment. Random dungeon runs with no conversation beyond "hello" and "good run". Brainless.

"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

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