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News & Features Discussion  » General: My Little Pony

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148 posts found
  Thrawl

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 273

4/28/10 1:29:25 AM#81

Damn I didn't know how much this stupid thing actually costs. 25 bucks for a vanity item?

I truly would have thought that the backlash of such an experiment would bring the giant to it's knees. Instead it seams to have only made it grow bigger. I guess if your a die hard fan it would be worth it. But for someone like me who never got into WoW, it's just another reason to stay away.

Our spirit was here long before you

Long before us

And long will it be after your pride brings you to your end

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5304

4/28/10 3:38:35 AM#82

RMT will not fail due to player backlash unless you talk to other players and organise a backlash in your MMO. Get those threads started on the forums, talk to your guildies, there is no other way this will stop.

Do a thread where players pledge not to buy this item in the cash shop and so on, this will not go away due to wishful thinking.

  melmoth1

Novice Member

Joined: 4/05/07
Posts: 765

The body cleans itself

4/28/10 4:57:41 AM#83

Unfortunately, I think RMT item stores in mmorpgs are here to stay. I used to be neutral on them, but they tended to be relatively rare in P2P mmorpgs so I felt it was no big deal. I've changed my mind.

Now it seems they are becoming more widespread and I am sure it will only be a matter of a few years when they are a huge and permanent feature of all mmorpgs and which account for a massive, maybe even the largest, chunk of a mmorpgs revenue. For me what is worrying about the creeping RMT options in WOW is that WOW is seen, by mmorpg developers and investors, as the standard of good (i.e. successful)  business practice.

I think mmorpgs can be addictive. I think you can get lost in mmorpgs in the same way you get lost in movies and books and comics, but mmorpgs hold onto your time and identity more tightly. I think people care a lot about the look of their virtual characters, about their vanity pets, and their mounts often just as much as the stuff that has stats attached and as such they may be a lot less "fluff" than people claim. I think big mmorpgs have slick advertising and dedicated marketing departments who are specialists par excellence in manipulating consumer demand. All of this make RMT items in mmorpgs a ridiculously astute, and horribly exploitative, method of increasing profits. Add to this the fact that children play these games (something that not enough people are mentioning btw) and we are beginning to have a toxic mix.

Yah, your "free" to choose to buy or not to buy. The tobacco industry makes the same claims and although I ain't saying that buying vanity pets and tobacco are the same, I am drawing attention to the fact that the existence of free will does not suddenly excuse questionable business practices, however lawful, or diminish the opinions of those who are critical of the business ethics of such practices.

P2P mmorpgs are aleady ridiculous time-sinks, make them persistent item store money sinks too and I am thinking more and more of boycotting any P2P mmorpg that has such features. Not because I think it will change anything (because it won't), and not because I lack the self-control to resist the "BUY NOW" button, but because it makes me feel 'dirty' to do business with such an overt bunch of moneygrubbing bastards.

 

Regards

 

Melmoth

ed for typo

  User Deleted
4/28/10 5:49:19 AM#84
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
Originally posted by Dosska

So now I am seriously considering canceling my account, maybe going to LOTRO instead.  With the exception of a couple of short breaks I've been a  WoW subscriber since launch. But I'm really uncomfortable with the direction it seems to be taking. And i just bought the authenticator for $6.50 too. Oh well, at least I didn't spend 25$ on a celestial steed.

Don't get me started on that authenticator.

The idea that we should pay Blizzard more money to make our accounts secure is offensive and ridiculous.

They do offer account protection: It's called a username and password. It's called encryption on any page with sensitive information (account info, etc), they offer pages and pages of info on how to protect your system, choosing a good password, protecting your info, etc... They take every reasonable measure to help inform and protect their players.

They can't, however, force their players to pay attention to all that.

Frankly, they don't have to offer a security token all. Blizzard are not responsible for the fact that a number of people aren't more careful with their account information, go to suspect websites and/or download add-ons or what-not that have embedded key loggers, etc. They can't stop players from giving out their login info to "friends", or power leveling services with the assumption nothing bad will come of it. They can't go to every individual's house, check their computers for infected software, and put blocks on infected websites. They can, and do, warn against it, but ultimately those are things that are out of Blizzard's control.

To be fair, it *can* happen, as an exception, that someone goes to an infected site believing it to be safe; it's happened to major sites for at least a few MMOs I'm aware of. But that is not the rule... It's the exception. 9/10 cases I've seen where people's accounts were hacked has been from their own carelessness. If you use a reasonable amount of common-sense and caution with your login info and other sensitive data, then you have very little to worry about.

So, yes, they offer a security token as an optional security measure; an extra level of protection that benefits the player who might otherwise get their account hacked.

The way I see it... $6.50 to protect potentially hundreds or thousands of hours worth of gameplay, and potentially years worth of sub fees (and box purchases) is a damn good bargain. I have never had problems with my accts being hacked, because I am reasonably cautious with my info. However, on the off chance that I just *might* happen to pick up a keylogger somewhere, I think it's a no-brainer. I have one for WoW and for FFXI.

In a nutshell, though... Blizzard is not responsible for protecting players' from their own carelessness. They require a login and password to access your account. They can't go all "Big Brother" and start watch-dogging every player to make sure their login and/or account information isn't getting into the wrong hands, because then that would lead to forums discussing a whole other kind of problem, the whole "Blizzard scans your HD! They are teh Satan!" type deal.

In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

4/28/10 6:00:05 AM#85

I quit long ago when they announced an item shop. I pay a sub fee that should include the whole game.

  Toquio3

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/09
Posts: 1105

"Excellent breeze... Great day for cards."

4/28/10 6:02:45 AM#86

I love the little pony with the skeletor outfit. Now thats a mount worth 25 bucks! =P


If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  MMO_Doubter

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 5133

4/28/10 6:09:22 AM#87
Originally posted by WSIMike

In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

So, I guess you have no theft or fraudulent charge protection on your credit/debit cards?

"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  Mehve

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 489

4/28/10 6:37:59 AM#88
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
Originally posted by WSIMike

In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

So, I guess you have no theft or fraudulent charge protection on your credit/debit cards?

Of course we do - because while a lot of credit card fraud happens because the card owner is stupid/careless, there's also a lot of ways fraud can happen even if you don't get suckered in that way, and the stakes can be far higher than just an MMO account.

A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.

  zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5199

4/28/10 7:09:29 AM#89

Is Blizzard conditioning it's customers? I think so.What it really shows is that many if not most WoW gamers aren't like gamers used to be, or at least used to think they were like. Watch for the next wave of games that crash and burn because they try to do what Blizzard does.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  Strap

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/09
Posts: 523

4/28/10 7:25:44 AM#90

 

The manipulation going on here is seriously creepy. All mmos manipulate us to a certain extent and profit by tapping into that desire to acheive in a game because it makes us feel good about ourselves, but this takes things to a new scale. It is simply embarrassing to see how many players went for this horse.

 

To be honest, it is hard to blame Blizzard. It is like putting a plate of sausages in front of your dog and then expecting him not to touch them. Moral of the story... don't be a sausage. :)

  User Deleted
4/28/10 7:26:10 AM#91
Originally posted by WSIMike

They do offer account protection: It's called a username and password. It's called encryption on any page with sensitive information (account info, etc), they offer pages and pages of info on how to protect your system, choosing a good password, protecting your info, etc... They take every reasonable measure to help inform and protect their players.

They can't, however, force their players to pay attention to all that.

Frankly, they don't have to offer a security token all. Blizzard are not responsible for the fact that a number of people aren't more careful with their account information, go to suspect websites and/or download add-ons or what-not that have embedded key loggers, etc. They can't stop players from giving out their login info to "friends", or power leveling services with the assumption nothing bad will come of it. They can't go to every individual's house, check their computers for infected software, and put blocks on infected websites. They can, and do, warn against it, but ultimately those are things that are out of Blizzard's control.

To be fair, it *can* happen, as an exception, that someone goes to an infected site believing it to be safe; it's happened to major sites for at least a few MMOs I'm aware of. But that is not the rule... It's the exception. 9/10 cases I've seen where people's accounts were hacked has been from their own carelessness. If you use a reasonable amount of common-sense and caution with your login info and other sensitive data, then you have very little to worry about.

So, yes, they offer a security token as an optional security measure; an extra level of protection that benefits the player who might otherwise get their account hacked.

The way I see it... $6.50 to protect potentially hundreds or thousands of hours worth of gameplay, and potentially years worth of sub fees (and box purchases) is a damn good bargain. I have never had problems with my accts being hacked, because I am reasonably cautious with my info. However, on the off chance that I just *might* happen to pick up a keylogger somewhere, I think it's a no-brainer. I have one for WoW and for FFXI.

In a nutshell, though... Blizzard is not responsible for protecting players' from their own carelessness. They require a login and password to access your account. They can't go all "Big Brother" and start watch-dogging every player to make sure their login and/or account information isn't getting into the wrong hands, because then that would lead to forums discussing a whole other kind of problem, the whole "Blizzard scans your HD! They are teh Satan!" type deal.

In another sense... to say that Blizzard should be doing more to protect players from their own carelessness is so typical of the "no accountability" people demonstrate these days. Someone makes a poor choice, and then blames it on someone else for not "protecting them" from it. 

And this is where it breaks apart. Valid statistics, not ones pulled from the fourth point of contact? Exception rather than rule?

 

I got a malware alert from opening a *.pdf straight from a university professor through the school email system. It's called a 'virus' for a reason.

I can work out everyday, I can take my vitamins, eat healthy etc. But if I cross the street on my way about my usual business and some chump crosses my path with the flu... guess what... there's a fairly good chance I'll be under the weather a couple days later.

So no, this entire post is completely full of it. Mistakes happen, period. Don't put the blame on the user because of situations *you* have seen (which, by the wording, is quite questionable). Just because you run a tight ship and haven't fallen overboard doesn't mean others aren't doing the same but haven't been as fortunate. Get off the high horse. Acknowledge that it's a service being run for financial gain when it could/should very well be a service installed as an industry standard because of a solid understanding of what goes on in the internet, and just how commonplace it is.

Hell, *Blizzard themselves* have had high suspectability of having been hacked. Feel free to read through clippings of people who's accounts had been compromised after being inactive for *years*. Of course, Blizzard, the masters of good PR, never outwardly say anything about such things...

  Votan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/04
Posts: 290

4/28/10 7:52:10 AM#92

For the first time since launch they do not have sub growth and have started a trend downward.   This is a way to plug that gap and continue revenue growth it really is that simple.  A lot more of this to come.  Revenue growth for a publically traded company is king and rules every choice they make and will. 

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2477

4/28/10 10:24:29 AM#93

Yay more horrible Yellow Journalism from MMORPG.com

Now with even more flawed Slippery Slope Arguments.

What I love is that every one is either using the Slippery Slope argument or the "I pay a monthly fee so it should be accessable in game" argument.

So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

Its good thing for Justin Webb that you dont need little things like facts or objectivity when you preach to the choir.

  MMO_Doubter

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 5133

4/28/10 10:27:42 AM#94
Originally posted by Xiaoki

So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

It sounds like an epic reward for an epic accomplishment. Kiling Arthas is the top goal in the game.

 

Does it bind to account? Does it scale with riding skill?

"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  Redline65

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 488

4/28/10 10:31:55 AM#95

I've never played WoW, but if I did I don't think I'd care about this. It's nothing game-changing, right? It's not going to make someone uber in PvE or PvP, is it? I say grats to Blizzard for finding ways to generate more revenue to support further development of their game. And for maximizing shareholder wealth. 

  MMO_Doubter

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 5133

4/28/10 10:35:02 AM#96
Originally posted by Redline65

I've never played WoW, but if I did I don't think I'd care about this. It's nothing game-changing, right? It's not going to make someone uber in PvE or PvP, is it? I say grats to Blizzard for finding ways to generate more revenue to support further development of their game. And for maximizing shareholder wealth. 

Why not send them a check, if maximizing wealth is so admirable to you?

They maximize that wealth by taking in more money while providing less service to their customers. Gamers. Us.

"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19287

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/28/10 10:53:00 AM#97

I'm always surprised at what people are willing to pay for, but this 25.00 mount topped most of them.

I mean, if it did impart some sort of in game benefit I might have understood the rush for it, but as simply a cosmentic change that anyone with 25 bucks can buy I can't imagine why people would purchase such a thing.

I'm just too far out of the mainstream it seems to grasp it all.

But I agree, this was just another step to turning WOW (and many other games) to a hybrid payment model where we'll pay a monthly fee for 'basic' service and extra fees for additional functionality. (much like cable TV I suppose)

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  choujiofkono

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 899

Extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV
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SE "official player" experiences revealed as fake

4/28/10 10:56:47 AM#98

"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

4/28/10 11:01:12 AM#99
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
Originally posted by Xiaoki

So what about mounts like Invincible? You know the mount that Justin Webb said only took one person an hour to reskin(good to see Mr Webb make assumptions on things like programmer even though he knows nothing about it). There are like a dozen people in the entire world with this mount. Your monthly fee went to making it so why arent you angry over that? Ah yeah its accessible in game ....but you have to be in a top raiding guild and kill 25 man heroic Arthas who only drops 1 mount per kill.

It sounds like an epic reward for an epic accomplishment. Kiling Arthas is the top goal in the game.

 

Does it bind to account? Does it scale with riding skill?

It scales with riding skill (though I am not 100% sure), but I don't think that's a crime.  You should be able to show off past achievements a year after the fact and not move slower because of it.

Anyhow, Xiaoki also said Mr. Webb said it took 1 hour to reskin, when he actually said it took a few (difference of a few hundred percent).  Even if it took someone 20 or 40 hours to reskin, that's very little work for the price tag.

I thought the comparison with Bioware was fairly apt.  They have 7 buck items that are whole adventures.  That feels a lot more sensible to me (though if they do the same with ToR I'd expect free content and a bit cheaper price as well unless there's no sub fee).

Like I've said before elsewhere, I think Blizzard gets a bit of a free pass here from its customers because in a very real way it's the only game in town.  The other AAA MMOs in the last few years have largely failed.  Once some real competition apppears (hopefully in the form of Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, Final Fantasy XIV, and a couple others), then RMT in the big games will have larger implications on whether people keep playing them or not (helps that GW2 provides a sub-free alternative as well).

Anyhow, overall I thought Mr. Webb had some very good points.  Maybe Blizzard won't ever sell a class online, but they'll keep adding stuff to the store.  Sooner or later they'll add items that can be used but aren't necessarily "better" than what you can get in the game, I think.  Well, that would happen if no competition appeared I think.  Given how the market is going to change in the next couple years (assuming all new MMOs aren't made of fail), I think Blizzard will start acting more sensibly.

  MMO_Doubter

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/28/09
Posts: 5133

4/28/10 11:01:48 AM#100
Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm always surprised at what people are willing to pay for, but this 25.00 mount topped most of them.

I mean, if it did impart some sort of in game benefit

It does.

I might have understood the rush for it, but as simply a cosmentic change

Not true.

that anyone with 25 bucks can buy I can't imagine why people would purchase such a thing.

Because it does give an advantage.

"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

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