No game is perfect, we all know this, we all have experianced this. My actual job I am a Software Support Tech for the Largest LED Digital Display Company.(Trust me, far from a tech freak, I actually went to school for marketing, go figure) Dealing with new releases, upgrading customers software, there are always bugs found, people push things to a direction the software hasn't been tested (because we can't think of all things in a sitting). All customers have their OS set up differently, or different things installed we never thought would effect our software. But we take these bugs,  find the cause, and make a fix, which sometimes, causes another bug. It is a never ending cycle.

People are saying "It was so buggy, I wouldnt' go back" I am asking about the game in general, besides the bugs, besides the issues and not the NEW WOWified version, prior to the huge change they made to it, would you play it again? I am wondering, if the things you use to do, the things you enjoyed in the game, would you go back?

I learned from my experiance with games, I will never play  when it  release. AOC taught me this. Things are so buggy at the beginning, that it ruins the game. So I wait, I wait a few months for a game to at least get some much needed patches and fixes out, then I will try. At that point, I look past the bugs, and hope to have faith a game will improve more.

This is like AION, I didn't play until November some time, tested with a friends account, seemed fun, but I waited longer. I waited until about a month ago. I had fun to a degree, its not my type of game, I don't like being told where to go and what to kill, but thats me. Some people like this, I do not. To me, it seems brainless and gets old. So, I stopped playing. The game has amazing graphics, the character creation is awesome, the world is beautiful, sadly, I got board by lvl 20. I was soon just running around killing things, not doing quests, but knowing, I wouldn't get dittle because the game is designed to follow quests and direction. For those of you who love these games, thats awesome you found something you like, I just wish I could find something I like, and SWG was it, until it was ruined.

So now, I am just another lost MMO Soul like so many others out there.

One of my many Screen shots I found of SWG :) Thats my character supporting my Nightsister Bracer :D

Originally posted by KyngBills

Definite 100% Yes to the CU...I LOVED The CU version of SWG...A probable Yes to the Pre-CU though they would have to do something about the Hologrind...I thought that was pretty dumb...

They did and somehow they made it worse.

Originally posted by grneyedvixen

I see lots of people, like myself compair games to SWG. Granted, it was my first MMO ever, made some great life long friends, but then in a blink of an eye, it was gone. All of it. Maybe it was the whole WOW era, or maybe my generation grew up?

I didn't mind you had one character per account, I was such a freak about the game, I had three active accounts to have three charaters on one server, and used my brothers account for one as well. I had my PVP girl, whom was a Riffelman/Doc, I had my Dancer/ID to give my guildies private buffs for PVP battles. I had my Tailor/Crafter on whom I played when I needed a break from PVP and wanted to make cash. I then had my TK/Fencer for my Jedi Hunter.

I liked the fact that, you could know almost all people on your server. At some point you either traded a valuable Item, or created something specifically for them. You may have even killed them in PVP when guilds would declair war on one another and then no matter where you were, you could be attacked at any moment. Or you may have been dancing, to buff them up.

I remember many times, just going out to farm Night Sisters with a few of my friends, to get the OH SO RARE Nightsister Bracer (Which I owned 2, because I am a girl and guys like to give gifts to girl gamers teehee) I remember running off on Naboo to find some AMAZING Place to put my house, to to have an awesome view of a waterfall. I also remember attending "In Game" weddings, was rare but some people really took the RPG serious and loved it.

I liked the fact that I could go to the Cantina and mingle and chat. This game wasn't about who could get to END GAME first, because there was no end game. You had so many combinations that you could be with skills. The options were endless. I had many friends who didn't combat at all, they just ran a store, designed clothes and outfits to wear around when you weren't pvping.

So, if there are any of you who are old SWGers, didn't mind the semi crappy graphics, but loved the game as it was, before the "WOW" craze happened, I would like to know.

I do however blaim the fail of the game on SOE. They took a perfectly good game, tried to make it theme park and ruined it. I think if they did a HUGE Rollback on that game, with a bit of fine tuning, maybe even a different type of server, they would get most if not more then the old subscribers they had before.

I just really want my SWG back :(

What a bullshit post. SWG when it was first released was more like WOW than it is in present form. 

What do you mean by pre-WOW? WOW is an EQ clone with the same crappy combat that that game had. SWG was EQ in space. So both are the same old thing that EQ had done before.

SWG did not change when WOW came out. 

SWG actually took a different direction with it's "upgrade".

You really need to understand a bit more about MMOs and there history over the last ten years.

The winter-summer of 2004 IMO was the best time in that game, pvp was very lively and happened everywhere (even just ouside the geo cave or ouside dath sci outpost or at the krayt graveyard, etc) There was so much going on back then, player cities grew and actually required some work to build (unlike today's low city standards) and player faction bases were harder to defend/attack.

There was so much to do back then, practically nothing to do now.

---

Originally posted by Saorlan

SWG did not change when WOW came out. 
SWG actually took a different direction with it's "upgrade".
You really need to understand a bit more about MMOs and there history over the last ten years.

---

Originally posted by Saorlan

What a bullshit post. SWG when it was first released was more like WOW than it is in present form. 

What do you mean by pre-WOW? WOW is an EQ clone with the same crappy combat that that game had. SWG was EQ in space. So both are the same old thing that EQ had done before.

SWG did not change when WOW came out. 

SWG actually took a different direction with it's "upgrade".

You really need to understand a bit more about MMOs and there history over the last ten years.

Is this a sarcastic post?

Originally posted by SanHor

Originally posted by CasualMaker

The CURB was not the CU. The CURB - Combat Update and ReBalance - was in the works well before the release of WoW. Around January '05 there was a radical change of direction, and descriptions of the upcoming changes abruptly ceased; the Friday Features describing those changes have since vanished down SOE's memory hole. Late Feb'05 into March'05, we started to hear some of the features in the upcoming CU, and it resembled the CURB only in rough outline. The biggest and IMHO worst change of the CU was converting SWG into a level-based combat system. It didn't become the bog-standard class-and-level system (like everthing else on the market) until NGE.

CURB or as it was later called CU at the release (end of April 2005) is indeed the same thing. What you are reffering to is a period while it was on test server but official public servers were still running pre-CU SWG until April. I believe some may have left seeing how bad it was on the test server but majority started leaving after CU took place on public servers, in April.

 EDIT*

Besides WOW was released in Novemebr 2004 so in any case before CU or CURB was introduced.

No, NOT talking about when the CU was on the test server. (Frequently-seen reaction: "Oh god, PLEASE tell me this is an April Fools Day joke!!") The terminology used by the devs morphed over time, from CURB to CU; in general usage, CU is what we actually got while CURB is used to refer to the earlier plans. When I speak of the CURB, I am speaking of the Friday Features from late '04 thru mid-Jan'05. (As I noted, SOE has wiped those from the official archives in an effort at rewriting history. "Oceana is at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.") The changes described in those FFs were refinements and modifications of the original pre-CU combat system. Then someone, probably the suits, decided that SWG was to be radically altered to bring it more in line with all the other MMOs on the market. The CURB designs were quickly hacked into the CU mess that hit the test server. The rapid, massive evolution of buggy and broken systems that CU underwent on the TC make it clear just what a quick hack that version really was.

I enjoyed SWG and it was also my first mmo but I think alot of these nostalgia posts overlook some things like how incredibly buggy the game was and while I didn't learn the fun of having alts until after I played SWG I rather prefer the ability to make alternates on the same server.  I also think SWG could have done with some good old fashioned questing too in addition to the generic "job" terminals that existed everywhere.  Star Wars is a rich universe that should have easily been able to incorporAte some engaging quests along with the sandbox elements.  That also would have made pulling the wool over peoples eyes a bit easier to handle I think, in my entire SWG play time I pushed for one single goal (since it was designed so that it wasn't easy to do more than one thing) and that was to become a CH and the inherent flaw was that once they NGE'd the game it literally made everything you did prior worthless, there were no memories of engaging quest lines or the like just the months of work you put into acheiving a class that they eliminated in the blink of an eye (though I must admit I actually quit SWG before they got rid of CH).

There were some good things about the original SWG but I am not willing to say that themepark mmo's killed it nor am I willing to say that the design of SWG was better than that of themepark mmo's it was certainly different and for alot of us I know it was new but I think things we saw (like bugs they could never get rid of) really helped push them to NGE the game, I don't know what it was but in hindsight I can say for certain in the entire year plus I played it is questionable how well the people who developed that game new the code to that game but in the end I think they made the same mistake everyone makes devs and the community and that is thinking that a sandbox and themepark mmo can't be blended seamlessly.

Originally posted by CasualMaker

No, NOT talking about when the CU was on the test server. (Frequently-seen reaction: "Oh god, PLEASE tell me this is an April Fools Day joke!!") The terminology used by the devs morphed over time, from CURB to CU; in general usage, CU is what we actually got while CURB is used to refer to the earlier plans. When I speak of the CURB, I am speaking of the Friday Features from late '04 thru mid-Jan'05. (As I noted, SOE has wiped those from the official archives in an effort at rewriting history. "Oceana is at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.") The changes described in those FFs were refinements and modifications of the original pre-CU combat system. Then someone, probably the suits, decided that SWG was to be radically altered to bring it more in line with all the other MMOs on the market. The CURB designs were quickly hacked into the CU mess that hit the test server. The rapid, massive evolution of buggy and broken systems that CU underwent on the TC make it clear just what a quick hack that version really was.

Oh I see. Ok in that case you are right. It was a long time ago so some things have erased from memory. I remember when they introduced colorish manga hair styles which were total turn off for me even though I stayed until CU (unless I mixed that too and it was also a part of CU? lol). There were some nice improvements in CURB but some things I didn't like.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

I enjoyed SWG and it was also my first mmo but I think alot of these nostalgia posts overlook some things like how incredibly buggy the game was...

While indeed it was buggy to some extent (not unplayable though), SWG had this something that would completely drag you in. SW music was so well handeled in the game that I could say it was one of the major reason for this. In addition, with so many things to do and almost unlimited possibilities for role play I never felt "Ok what now?" Never heard the term 'endgame' back then as it simply didn't exist - or it just took you very long time to get there. I know I never did. Needless to say, I have never ever had such a pleasing experience in any other MMO ever after.

Also, if you look at it from one point of view, bugs (which should be fixed ASAP) actually don't take part in the game's concept and such unique concept of old SWG was extremely entertaining for many of us. Too bad no other MMO ever tried to be SWG clone :)

...but in the end I think they made the same mistake everyone makes devs and the community and that is thinking that a sandbox and themepark mmo can't be blended seamlessly.

Very very true!

Originally posted by Saorlan

 

What a bullshit post. SWG when it was first released was more like WOW than it is in present form. 

What do you mean by pre-WOW? WOW is an EQ clone with the same crappy combat that that game had. SWG was EQ in space. So both are the same old thing that EQ had done before.

SWG did not change when WOW came out. 

SWG actually took a different direction with it's "upgrade".

You really need to understand a bit more about MMOs and there history over the last ten years.

Hmmm.  I played both from release for about two years each, and I can't think of much anything in swg that was remotely close to wow, minus playing an avatar behind a computer of course.  Few to no quests, mission terminals, no direction (i was so utterly lost at the beginning), housing/guild halls, much more detailed crafting with experimentation, resource qualities, skill based system, auction house up to 6k credits max, completely different harvesting system, automated harvesting, macro system, queue based combat system that could use macros, much larger group size, group-based classes (e.g. squad leader), etc etc etc.

Can you tell me just one thing even remotely like wow when swg was released?  please, cure me of my ignorance, because I think you're completely and utterly full of it.  To quote you..."What a bullshit post".

the CURB, or CU, tbh, the version that was on the test servers initially wasnt the same version that was released into the game, it may well have been in response to 'other games' that were live at that time, but it wasnt that well liked by the players, and was the start of the games decline, introducing levels into a game that was supposed to be skill based wasnt really a good move anyway, although the basic infrastructure was still there, imo, the NGE just was the final nail in SWG's coffin.. taking away the players freedom to choose their own playstyle and career paths was completely daft imo, it was one of the games strongest points and they trashed it... but, if they released the game again, Pre-Cu era, hell, if they released the game without Jedi unlocked or unlockable, then i would return to SWG, not just instead of WoW, but maybe even at the expense of Eve... but its not going to happen, SOE doesnt have the capability to resurrect that game from the ashes....

Originally posted by SanHor

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by Simsu

What does WoW have to do with SWG? Is SWG a WoW clone now? Please please tell me people blame the CU and NGE on WoW. Please please....

Yes, SOE attempted to turn SWG into a wow clone with the nge.  The CU was in motion well before wow was released so the cu not so much.

Actually WOW was released 6 months before CU took place....

Like I said, it was in motion, not released.  I didn't even know all that much about it, and still don't (after all I quit before it was released).  But when I quit, the day wow was released, most everyone in swg knew that a combat upgrade and rebalance was in the works, even if we didn't know all that much about what exactly they were working on for the cu.  We just knew it was planned.

Didn't WoW release in Oct 2004? Weren't the SWG devs talking about the CU components before publish 9? Wasn't publish 9 released June 2004? WoW was not a direct influence of the CU until later (the toolbar action animations and cooldowns reflected directly off WoW).

I would play it because there is nothing like it out now.  It wasn't just combat that I liked, it was crafting, socializing, and rp too.  For a game that had nothing to do, there seemed to always be a million things to do.  It was fun that way.

It's the only mmo I reminisce about.  I had so many good and memorable times there. Nothing out right now compares to that.

 Would you play OLD SWG before WOW Era?

I "did" play it before WOW Era, there is no would.. $OE ruined all that.  No other MMO has come close for immersion for me.

When i play other MMO's i know i am playing a game.

But SWG was like i lived,breathed and walked with that toon.  And when i went to sleep i dreamt of it.

A true virtual reality where i could live the greatest Star Wars Saga ever told.

 My own.

That said i just don't get how $OE can come up with some great games and concepts for games SWG a virtual world, EQ epic in its own right, PlanetSide with 500 people going at it on a map, and in the end ruin it for so many.

I would think about it but it's really too late now. I would have liked to see more of SWG's better features added into SWTOR though. But sadly, it's nothing more than WOW.

Originally posted by Selenica

I would think about it but it's really too late now. I would have liked to see more of SWG's better features added into SWTOR though. But sadly, it's nothing more than WOW.

theres no way they would mix tbh, TOR is a storyline based instanced adventure game, SWG was an open world skill based, sandbox, one of the reasons why the NGE was such a flat out failure - whether or not TOR is nothing more than a Sci-fi WoW remains to be seen, though there is no real evidence at the moment that would enable me to contradict that supposition.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Selenica

I would think about it but it's really too late now. I would have liked to see more of SWG's better features added into SWTOR though. But sadly, it's nothing more than WOW.

theres no way they would mix tbh, TOR is a storyline based instanced adventure game, SWG was an open world skill based, sandbox, one of the reasons why the NGE was such a flat out failure - whether or not TOR is nothing more than a Sci-fi WoW remains to be seen, though there is no real evidence at the moment that would enable me to contradict that supposition.

Why is so hard to mix these two elements beats me.

Originally posted by Selenica

I would think about it but it's really too late now. I would have liked to see more of SWG's better features added into SWTOR though. But sadly, it's nothing more than WOW.

I'm sorry to disagree, but I don't think comparing any Bioware game to WoW is fair in the least...especially not now before the release of SWTOR. Bioware simply does not make crap games. Think what you like about WoW, but there hasn't been a "bad" Bioware game in years - they are the masters of RPG.

Adding the MMO part to that RPG success of theirs was an obvious advancement and one I have little doubt will be done right.

I'd rather people have a low expectation like you do, but I also think anyone doubting Bioware will be shocked by the depth they add to their games. Biowares writing staff is second to none - and having 5+ years to create SWTOR is amazing!!! After that big of an investment of time and money, they want to be sure to keep you around longer than a few months mate.

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Selenica

I would think about it but it's really too late now. I would have liked to see more of SWG's better features added into SWTOR though. But sadly, it's nothing more than WOW.

I'm sorry to disagree, but I don't think comparing any Bioware game to WoW is fair in the least...especially not now before the release of SWTOR. Bioware simply does not make crap games. Think what you like about WoW, but there hasn't been a "bad" Bioware game in years - they are the masters of RPG.

Adding the MMO part to that RPG success of theirs was an obvious advancement and one I have little doubt will be done right.

I'd rather people have a low expectation like you do, but I also think anyone doubting Bioware will be shocked by the depth they add to their games. Biowares writing staff is second to none - and having 5+ years to create SWTOR is amazing!!! After that big of an investment of time and money, they want to be sure to keep you around longer than a few months mate.

I definitely don't doubt Bioware's ability to create stories. Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Jade Empire, etc; are some of my favorite singleplayer games. My worry is that EA & Lucas Arts will continue to behave with typical business tactics. ex. They see something that is successful (World of Warcraft) and they copy it, with only minor tweaks to make it their own. 

What we've seen and heard about SWTOR sounds remarkably similar to WoW.  Class-based leveling system, two factions, linear quests, typical MMO combat system, endgame raiding, and particularly the visual style is very colorful and paint-like. It looks almost exactly like WoW.  The only thing we've heard so far that isn't exactly the same as WoW is the voice-dialogue system. It makes me sad because I would have otherwise been really hyped up to try SWTOR.. But instead I have no interest in it. I'll just stick to their singleplayer games.

It's hard to find a recent MMO made by a major company that hasn't tried to emulate WoW in order to become a success.