Originally posted by bstiff

 

 I think a lot of them feel that a mediocre ( or bad depending on your viewpoint) Star trek MMO is better than no star trek MMO which I can kind of understand.

As a Trek fan - I consider STO to be les than mediocre. They clearly never tried to do the IP justice. It was fast & cheap right from design.

We'd be better off if STO did not exist, because the opening would be there for someone else to do it right.

What I don't understand is the extreme fanaticism on both sides, one side claiming that STO is one of the best MMO's ever, the other claiming that all of cryptic needs to die in a fire for releasing STO.  The problem I have with the whole situation is cryptic's handling of it. They have admitted they aren't happy with the way sto is now but they continue to charge a full sub price for it. I think if they said something along the lines of "You're right STO is a a level where it's worth $15 a month right now, we'll reduce the sub to $10 a month temporarily" that would clear up a lot of bad blood between subs and cryptic. Instead you get "There's more stuff on the Cstore to buy!" 

They should close down that C-Store now, to show that it's not all about squeezing maximum cash from the game before it dies. They won't of course, because it is.

Originally posted by Felconian

Well here go's another one...

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=152251

They jumping ship fast now .....?

The most intelligent person in that thread (apart from the OP) had this thread linked in his sig: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=136929.

It's a really good read.

"I feel that this is an extremely valid thread that should stay bumped up for awhile until its been thoroughly read by all the community"

lol

the thread's premise is absurd

yeah, life time subscribers are never going to check in to see if things changed or were added

doubtful

reads more like sado mmo'rs gloating over the percieved misfortune of  others

lovely group

2 years for 248 i think it was.

not alot of money

Originally posted by nikoliath

 

The only thing that bothers me is the complete lack of tolerance here. Why does someone have to be defective in some way or as you put it "are simply bad judges of character" or an ignorant / deluded sycophant, who will "...buy everything put up for sale in the C-Store doing their part to keep STO on life support..." in order to enjoy this game?

 

If you have invested in something, you do or did enjoy, is it not natural to support that something? Must everyone see the world through your eyes or somehow be wrong? 

 

There are countless things that people find fun that I do not, but I do not feel the need to label these people or consider them as inferior in any way. It's one thing to not understand how someone derives pleasure from doing what you dislike but deciding they must be fools for doing so is rather ignorant in a way.

Originally posted by jotull

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

 When did cryptic ever claim they were developing a "niche" MMO? 

Id say most are pretty ambivalent or don't like it. Saying they love it is an exaggeration. 

So what's the agenda? Yes I have an IQ well beyond 84 but haven't heard about this massive conspiracy against cryptic.

How do you know people are spending 18 hours a day one some underground anti cryptic conspiracy? Sounds like more exaggeration to me.  Also one could make the same statement about people jumping into negative threads not on the main forums to defend cryptic unless you thought the title "Lifers starting to bail" was a positive thread that had been derailed by haters. 

Unless you have some inside line to cryptic, your predictions are as baseless as the people you criticize. What method are you using? Crystal ball or magic eight ball?

Originally posted by jotull

Originally posted by nikoliath

 

The only thing that bothers me is the complete lack of tolerance here. Why does someone have to be defective in some way or as you put it "are simply bad judges of character" or an ignorant / deluded sycophant, who will "...buy everything put up for sale in the C-Store doing their part to keep STO on life support..." in order to enjoy this game?

 

If you have invested in something, you do or did enjoy, is it not natural to support that something? Must everyone see the world through your eyes or somehow be wrong? 

 

There are countless things that people find fun that I do not, but I do not feel the need to label these people or consider them as inferior in any way. It's one thing to not understand how someone derives pleasure from doing what you dislike but deciding they must be fools for doing so is rather ignorant in a way.

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

Do you actually believe what you are spewing??? an orginized hate machine???? never heard of STO.net, Niche market???

How about just people who feel like they have been mugged by craptic and since we can not voice our opinion on the official forums we do it here.

Your post is hitting new heights for conspiracy theory and liferism

Originally posted by bstiff

Originally posted by jotull

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

 When did cryptic ever claim they were developing a "niche" MMO? 

 

Id say most are pretty ambivalent or don't like it. Saying they love it is an exaggeration. 

 

So what's the agenda? Yes I have an IQ well beyond 84 but haven't heard about this massive conspiracy against cryptic.

How do you know people are spending 18 hours a day one some underground anti cryptic conspiracy? Sounds like more exaggeration to me.  Also one could make the same statement about people jumping into negative threads not on the main forums to defend cryptic unless you thought the title "Lifers starting to bail" was a positive thread that had been derailed by haters. 

 

Unless you have some inside line to cryptic, your predictions are as baseless as the people you criticize. What method are you using? Crystal ball or magic eight ball?

Originally posted by Betaboo

 

Do you actually believe what you are spewing??? an orginized hate machine???? never heard of STO.net, Niche market???

How about just people who feel like they have been mugged by craptic and since we can not voice our opinion on the official forums we do it here.

Your post is hitting new heights for conspiracy theory and liferism

 Mock shock and outrage is amusing.

Okay I got mugged by Funcom...twice. I don't buy thier games anymore....crying about it for weeks on end serves little perpouse, unless you have an agenda.

Ummm I'm not a lifer, and if you see folks doing it...it's not really a conspracy theory...is it?

Originally posted by jotull

Originally posted by bstiff

Originally posted by jotull

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

 When did cryptic ever claim they were developing a "niche" MMO? 

 

Id say most are pretty ambivalent or don't like it. Saying they love it is an exaggeration. 

 

So what's the agenda? Yes I have an IQ well beyond 84 but haven't heard about this massive conspiracy against cryptic.

How do you know people are spending 18 hours a day one some underground anti cryptic conspiracy? Sounds like more exaggeration to me.  Also one could make the same statement about people jumping into negative threads not on the main forums to defend cryptic unless you thought the title "Lifers starting to bail" was a positive thread that had been derailed by haters. 

 

Unless you have some inside line to cryptic, your predictions are as baseless as the people you criticize. What method are you using? Crystal ball or magic eight ball?

 No developer ever claims to be making a Niche MMO silly if it isn't WoW that what is becomes..can you list me one western MMO today that isn't niche?  And yes EvE is Niche.

 

You are hearing ambivalent I am hearing that some folks love it; how  is your opinion any more valid than mine?

 

Look at these forums you have the same group spewing as much hate and negativity as possible, and all you have to do is look at the posting history of forum Trolls like Agent smith to see that yeah 15 to 18 hours a day is spent bashing cryptic...what sane person would do that unless they had an agenda or was getting paid...I'm not saying folks are being compensated to bash, it just looks weird.

 

 

My inside track are the people I play the game with that are having fun, the couple thousand posters on fan sites like Jupiter colony, I know they are all ass kissing shills that have never played a MMO and are thus not valid, but they will have to do.  Oh and you fail at reverse psychology

 And you fail at projection. I can throw around psychology terms too. I've never called any player an "ass kissing shill" as you like to call them. I don't see why some people see negative commments against STO as some kind of personal attack.

no point to even read this thread if u really enjoy this game so it very obvious the game is boring and u feel insecure.

I think the main thing that the MOB with pitchforks are trying to say...
Is if any other MMO developer thinks they can get away with this now that Cryptic has tainted the MMO waters.

Then they better not be shocked when they are carried out on a rail, Tar and feathered, and then slowly dipped in boiling oil.

We are tired of it, we are exhausted of having our wallets raped and nothing done to these CON-ARTIST that call themselves developers.

There really needs to be a neighborhood watch with credibility so that when they say 'steer clear of this poison', the MMO community will take heed.

A MMOBBB perhaps. The Massively Multiplayer Online Better Business Bureau. :P

Personally I don't have a problem with STO, although it is just a themepark in space it is still refreshing.  I am tired of mystical crap, barbarians, elves, half elves, dwarves, gnomes...etc.  I wanted sci-fi, anything would do, I played Anarchy Online for a long time, and even City of Heros for a long time and of course Star Wars Galaxies from release day, I even tried out Eve for about 3-6 months at a time over the last few years.  The problem I had with each was different but the experiances were very refreshing.  I think AO could still be amazing if they get there graphics update in and tweek the game, I think alot of people will go back because it is a Sci-Fi game.  COH was great, I loved it not sci-fi really but comic books come to life for its time was original and well done and the same goes for COV.  SWG was by far one of the best Sci-Fi games, that i probably wouldn't have stopped playing if Sony hadn't messed with it but that is another thread.  Eve is this hidden monster that is a Sci-Fi MMO that pretty much plays itself, I could start a massive debate on the subject but I don't like the one thing that sets this game apart from every other game, offline skill training, getting something for nothing it just isn't right.  Finally STO, I actually do like the game and I see potential in it, but the key is can Cryptic morph the game into that amazing Sci-Fi game?  I really hope so, but untill I really get frustrated I will continue to support them and hope they advance the game, for all of those lifers that left and want there money back, tough luck.  You don't get a refund on a car you drove for 2 months, you can't get a refund on a chocolate bar that you ate and you didn't enjoy.  If you realized you wanted that refund within 30 days then fine but after that your in it for the long haul so suck it up princesses, maybe next time you won't jump the gun just to get into beta.

Originally posted by storm-dragon

God knows I have bashed STO, I was very very angry at Cryptic for the half assed attempt they gave us, and I let them have it with both barrels and left during beta, but what I have seen in the last few patches is an honest attempt to make the game better, and in listening to the developers they are actually talking about a lot of the concerns and laying out a time table on how they will be addressing them.....folks can say what they will but I haven't seen any mmo company do that before, and yeah I'm seeing improvement.

 

The odd thing is the very moment I said was seeing improvement, and I actually said something positive about the game folks turned on me like I was a traitor or something, I got accused of being paid off by cryptic, one PM even told me that if I knew what was good for me I'd keep my fucking mouth shut?  Where I come from that's a threat, and all I said was the game was doing better but still had a hell of a long way to go. Usually I take Jotulls posts with a huge grain of salt...but guys I have been around here for a long time, and for the most part folks think I'm a straight shooter......Conspiracy theory or no something damn odd is going on with this whole thing, If you don't like the game fine, if you have an opinion shout it as long and hard as you want but trying to force those that doesn’t think like you do to shut up?...well that kinda looks suspicious.

Maybe i am missing something but i for one never called another player anything but a player. I have called people fanboys for their rabid defense of the game but other than that one word and only at very specific people i have not said anything bad against another player.

And as far as the fanboi thing well you reap what you sow you call someone a hater for critising the game then expect to get labeled yourself.

As far as some type of conspiracy i think that is just foolish and an attempt to just shut down critism and for me that will not work.

And as far as the supposed email well if it is true their are nuts in every part of life and guess what you just had the displeasure of being involved with one.

Originally posted by storm-dragon

God knows I have bashed STO, I was very very angry at Cryptic for the half assed attempt they gave us, and I let them have it with both barrels and left during beta, but what I have seen in the last few patches is an honest attempt to make the game better, and in listening to the developers they are actually talking about a lot of the concerns and laying out a time table on how they will be addressing them.....folks can say what they will but I haven't seen any mmo company do that before, and yeah I'm seeing improvement.

 

The odd thing is the very moment I said was seeing improvement, and I actually said something positive about the game folks turned on me like I was a traitor or something, I got accused of being paid off by cryptic, one PM even told me that if I knew what was good for me I'd keep my fucking mouth shut?  Where I come from that's a threat, and all I said was the game was doing better but still had a hell of a long way to go. Usually I take Jotulls posts with a huge grain of salt...but guys I have been around here for a long time, and for the most part folks think I'm a straight shooter......Conspiracy theory or no something damn odd is going on with this whole thing, If you don't like the game fine, if you have an opinion shout it as long and hard as you want but trying to force those that doesn’t think like you do...well that kinda looks suspicious.

 Im guessing that was on the main forums? There's a weird mix over there. I think a lot of it comes from the close intermingling of the dev/mods and players. I know several people there have claimed that they used to pm mods/devs for hours over there which is odd. Recently a dev posted that pm's had been disabled for most of the mods/devs because of problems with dev and players pming.  This lead to a double standard in moderation on the boards which drove a lot of people away.  I agree that there's something odd, maybe its a mix of personalities you don't normally see in gaming forums? I don't think Ive ever seen a group of fans or critics this fanatical, even on the WoW forums.

In the end I think its multiple factors cryptics new business model, their attitude towards customers, the unfinished state of the game that lead to the feeling that this is the way mmo are now going to be.  They are hoping given the negativity surrounding STO will make any other developer think twice before attempting the same thing again. 

Originally posted by jotull

Originally posted by nikoliath

 

The only thing that bothers me is the complete lack of tolerance here. Why does someone have to be defective in some way or as you put it "are simply bad judges of character" or an ignorant / deluded sycophant, who will "...buy everything put up for sale in the C-Store doing their part to keep STO on life support..." in order to enjoy this game?

 

If you have invested in something, you do or did enjoy, is it not natural to support that something? Must everyone see the world through your eyes or somehow be wrong? 

 

There are countless things that people find fun that I do not, but I do not feel the need to label these people or consider them as inferior in any way. It's one thing to not understand how someone derives pleasure from doing what you dislike but deciding they must be fools for doing so is rather ignorant in a way.

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

 I won't buy into this hate machine theory entirely. Bottom line many feel Cryptic was the wrong company to do the IP the justice it deserved. The shallow gameplay on top of the marketing antics are what most are upset about. I've accepted this and my rage has subsided for those guys. Whether they get another well known IP or not Cryptic needs to be taken at face value. Their games aren't designed to be played more than a couple of months for most people. Those who really love the concept of the game may have their mileage vary like yourself.

I'm happy for those having fun playing the game! I'm glad somebody is. We all have the right to voice our opinions and "gasp" are having fun doing it.

i sofar not seen one game that did  lifetime  survive  for long   look at hellsgate london they were the first  to have it and it died  and the players were left out in the cold

alot of the lifers  when game first came out were asking for a refund  for them to "Now" ask is pointless   game been out since feb. the ships been burning since feb your abanding ship in april

when i saw smoke in feb i jumped ship   and im happy i did

Originally posted by cowhunters

i sofar not seen one game that did  lifetime  survive  for long   look at hellsgate london they were the first  to have it and it died  and the players were left out in the cold

alot of the lifers  when game first came out were asking for a refund  for them to "Now" ask is pointless   game been out since feb. the ships been burning since feb your abanding ship in april

when i saw smoke in feb i jumped ship   and im happy i did

LOTRO has lifetime..... how many years has it been around?  Yet, as many have stated it is still going strong.

Originally posted by jotull

Originally posted by nikoliath

 

The only thing that bothers me is the complete lack of tolerance here. Why does someone have to be defective in some way or as you put it "are simply bad judges of character" or an ignorant / deluded sycophant, who will "...buy everything put up for sale in the C-Store doing their part to keep STO on life support..." in order to enjoy this game?

 

If you have invested in something, you do or did enjoy, is it not natural to support that something? Must everyone see the world through your eyes or somehow be wrong? 

 

There are countless things that people find fun that I do not, but I do not feel the need to label these people or consider them as inferior in any way. It's one thing to not understand how someone derives pleasure from doing what you dislike but deciding they must be fools for doing so is rather ignorant in a way.

 

Well STO was targeted early on by a very well organized hate machine. I think most of them are leftovers from STO.net, and the Perpetual boosters. STO has a market, yes it's a niche market, but no one was expecting any different, the game is retaining a good size player base, have people left?  Yes of course but they do that with every MMO that isn't WoW and as much as the haters bitch about the C-store it has been very successful for Cryptic, which means a good portion of the demographic that is staying loves it.  What you are seeing here is a group of folks that are bound and determined to spread as much negativity about STO as possible, it doesn’t matter if they have to exaggerate, shout down anyone who dose like the game or portray them as Ass Kissing shills whatever it takes to bash STO and cryptic they will do it, anyone with  an IQ above 84 can see that there is an agenda behind it, hell some people on this forum are actually bragging about buying guest passes just so they can hop on the forum to flame and troll, how is that not following an agenda?

 

 If you don't like a game (example I hated Aion) you move on to the next game you don't spend 8 to 15 hours a day on a forum trashing it or jumping into any positive thread about the game to derail it. I have a pretty good sized friends list in STO and on top of that belong to one of the larger fleets...folks I talk to understand that the game needs work, but are sticking around because they are *gasp* having fun. A lot of the trolls have been kicked from the forums and it is actually shaping up to be a decent place for information, there are still five regular podcast devoted to the game....in short despite the well organized hate machine the game isn't doing that bad, it will have a small but dedicated core fan base, like AoC, LOTRO, and every other MMO except WoW, the hate machine will eventually move to the next new MMO to trash and life will go on. What I'm trying to say is despite all the Bullshit you are hearing from Armchair developers STO is going to do just fine,  these are the same geniuses that predicted the death or F2P status of CO and after almost a year every time I log in there Millennium city is crowded.....so much for prophecies of doom.

Wow, seriously?

It takes a whole lot of paranioa to believe that anything is the victim of a "well organized hate machine" unless you belong to a major political party.

For the record, I couldn't stand STO.net. Those guys kissed Perpetual's behind just as badly as the CDF kisses Cryptic's behind. And Perpetual's STO was only a slightly more stinky pile of crap than Cryptic's STO.

No one has to exaggerate about how bad this game is, the awefulness speaks for itself really.

Oh.. JoTull.. I just don't know..   I'm thinking when a company uses questionable sales and marketing practices to swindle anyone out of hard earn money.  I'm thinking they deserve ALL the bad press they can get..  I hope that bad press is loud enough and strong enough to force employees getting fired, or even better yet, company going belly up :)  Then I would pop the cork and toast to their RIP  :)  

I'm just sad that I dont' live close enough to Cryptic Studios to picket their front door, which I would have a constitutional right to do :)  he he he ..