"WOW: Old lower level dungeons, 60, 70 and soon 80 dungeons and raids all go to waste like a ghost town."

Nonsense, my alts do nothing but run this content constantly.  My tank character averages a 2-3 min wait between runs (with most starting seconds after I hit the button.)

The only partial truth is that literal level 60 (Strath, etc) and level 70 (Shattered Halls, etc) dungeons get skipped over in favor of the successive expansion's dungeons.  It'd be nice if they'd simply recalibrate dungeon levels so that less repetition happens (you run SM Graveyard a lot) and the unused dungeons get run.

And of course no old raids get run, but let's face it: they weren't exactly the high point of WOW game design and nobody really misses em.  ...except for the fact that this statement is patently my opinion and people actually do run old raids quite frequently (Nef's head has been mounted in Orgrimmar a lot this past month.)  But for a lot of players like myself, the complete lack of challenge combined with "been there, done that" makes these instances unappealing.

"WAR: Had a lot of hype and good potential to be a good game"

I'm not sure this counts as a pro.

"DDO: The Dungeon Master voice gives a good story based adventure feel for where you are."

Definitely agree with this one.  That voice actor is a seldom-mentioned highpoint of the game.

"Well, let me put it in another way, basically they all perfer to ignore you, say your level 10 and you try to talk to a level 80 you befriended, biggest chance is they will ignore you most of the time while they do their stuff so really it's like your not talking to anyone."

Are they really your friend if they ignore you most of the time?

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Nephaerius

OP, Did you at least make it to cap in any of these games?

No, the highest I ever got on WoW was level 63. Other games not passed level 10.

This list is obsolete in that case

Originally posted by Citius

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Nephaerius

OP, Did you at least make it to cap in any of these games?

No, the highest I ever got on WoW was level 63. Other games not passed level 10.

This list is obsolete in that case

How is it obsolete? Just because I don't have maxed out characters doesn't mean I can't have my say. Honestly... =p

Originally posted by Axehilt

"WOW: Old lower level dungeons, 60, 70 and soon 80 dungeons and raids all go to waste like a ghost town."

Nonsense, my alts do nothing but run this content constantly.  My tank character averages a 2-3 min wait between runs (with most starting seconds after I hit the button.)

The only partial truth is that literal level 60 (Strath, etc) and level 70 (Shattered Halls, etc) dungeons get skipped over in favor of the successive expansion's dungeons.  It'd be nice if they'd simply recalibrate dungeon levels so that less repetition happens (you run SM Graveyard a lot) and the unused dungeons get run.

And of course no old raids get run, but let's face it: they weren't exactly the high point of WOW game design and nobody really misses em.  ...except for the fact that this statement is patently my opinion and people actually do run old raids quite frequently (Nef's head has been mounted in Orgrimmar a lot this past month.)  But for a lot of players like myself, the complete lack of challenge combined with "been there, done that" makes these instances unappealing.

"WAR: Had a lot of hype and good potential to be a good game"

I'm not sure this counts as a pro.

"DDO: The Dungeon Master voice gives a good story based adventure feel for where you are."

Definitely agree with this one.  That voice actor is a seldom-mentioned highpoint of the game.

"Well, let me put it in another way, basically they all perfer to ignore you, say your level 10 and you try to talk to a level 80 you befriended, biggest chance is they will ignore you most of the time while they do their stuff so really it's like your not talking to anyone."

Are they really your friend if they ignore you most of the time?

Why are you pugging instances? Most people you may group with are noobs and idiots.

As for the friend thing, it's very, very difficult for me to befriend people and it's very hard to know who your friends are and or is just a somebody who doesn't really want to be your friend.

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Yeah but it's not right to be ignored, I've had a really hard time with WoW, I had to be put up being alone and being unsure of something that I needed advice on. I just couldn't put up with the loneliness anymore, as for other MMORPGs since they have far less communities then WoW you will be lonely anyway, that's what happens if the game isn't at the same level as WoW in population.

Well, I don't think it's right to demand somebody else pay attention to you when you're a total stranger either.  So it's kind of a toss-up depending on where you stand.

At least in WOW, there tends to be somebody in General though.   So if you want to ask "Where is the Defias Messenger" then you have a chance of getting a response.

But I'll tell you this, the guy saying "Can I have 15 silver on my server right now" he's not getting any of my gold.  He's ignored, and it's right for me to ignore him.

Anyway, this isn't a game problem, it's common to all games everywhere.   But here's the thing about WOW, if you know what to do, you can find a community pretty easily.   First, good chance you'll find folks in your real life around you that play.  Second, there's always some sort of leveling or re-roll or noob guild going on. 

Sure, it could fail anyway, but it's not WOW's fault.  It's people EVERYWHERE.   Sad, but true.  I have a lot of people who aren't really my friends, who weren't really my friends, and I live with that. 

I agree, list is absolete. If you have not made it past level 10, its not that you cant review it because you didn't reach max level, its because you havnt experienced a fourth of the game. For ex: In Aion, 1-10 is the starting zone, did u just play the trial? Because when you hit level 10 you get to choose ur class spec, at lvl 25, you go to the Abyss, and btw, if you havnt passed lvl 10 then you havnt even tried crafting in the game.

Shouldn't 1-10 grab you and make you wanna keep playing tho?  Just a thought.

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Citius

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Nephaerius

OP, Did you at least make it to cap in any of these games?

No, the highest I ever got on WoW was level 63. Other games not passed level 10.

This list is obsolete in that case

How is it obsolete? Just because I don't have maxed out characters doesn't mean I can't have my say. Honestly... =p

You have not experienced what the game fully has to offer, so your pro's and con's are invalid for most MMO players

Originally posted by Blueharp

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Yeah but it's not right to be ignored, I've had a really hard time with WoW, I had to be put up being alone and being unsure of something that I needed advice on. I just couldn't put up with the loneliness anymore, as for other MMORPGs since they have far less communities then WoW you will be lonely anyway, that's what happens if the game isn't at the same level as WoW in population.

Well, I don't think it's right to demand somebody else pay attention to you when you're a total stranger either.  So it's kind of a toss-up depending on where you stand.

At least in WOW, there tends to be somebody in General though.   So if you want to ask "Where is the Defias Messenger" then you have a chance of getting a response.

But I'll tell you this, the guy saying "Can I have 15 silver on my server right now" he's not getting any of my gold.  He's ignored, and it's right for me to ignore him.

Anyway, this isn't a game problem, it's common to all games everywhere.   But here's the thing about WOW, if you know what to do, you can find a community pretty easily.   First, good chance you'll find folks in your real life around you that play.  Second, there's always some sort of leveling or re-roll or noob guild going on. 

Sure, it could fail anyway, but it's not WOW's fault.  It's people EVERYWHERE.   Sad, but true.  I have a lot of people who aren't really my friends, who weren't really my friends, and I live with that. 

That's really had when you think about it, I had a real life friend once, not sure if he still plays it but I've not seen him forever now and WoW pretty much destroyed our friendship, I had a feeling my "dog eat dog" statement would be true,it seems like MMORPG's are not meant for friendships anymore, what is the point in MMORPG's when you could just play an RPG game like Final Fantasy. I don't think I'll ever come across anyone around where I live who plays WoW now.

I tried General, no-one ever speaks to you and it's not a global channel like Trade but you can't talk on that because it's meant to be used for "trading".

Originally posted by Citius

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Citius

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Nephaerius

OP, Did you at least make it to cap in any of these games?

No, the highest I ever got on WoW was level 63. Other games not passed level 10.

This list is obsolete in that case

How is it obsolete? Just because I don't have maxed out characters doesn't mean I can't have my say. Honestly... =p

You have not experienced what the game fully has to offer, so your pro's and con's are invalid for most MMO players

Only invaild to you.

If I'm not enjoying the game from the beginning then why do I need to torture myself to get to "end cap" to see the "real" game? WTF? Why can't the WHOLE GAME BE THE REAL GAME

Thats why I hate themepark MMOs so much, its always the "end" game that is the "best". Sandbox style MMOs (UO, Pre-ruined SWG, Asheron's Call, Saga of Ryzom, Vanguard and the few other sandbox MMOs) hooked me right from the beginning.

So yes, you can judge a game from level 1-10 because if a game doesn't start to level 60 or 80 or whatever, then it isn't worth playing. A sandbox game hooks you from the start.

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Why are you pugging instances? Most people you may group with are noobs and idiots.

As for the friend thing, it's very, very difficult for me to befriend people and it's very hard to know who your friends are and or is just a somebody who doesn't really want to be your friend.

1. Faster progression than questing for leveling characters.

2. Way more dynamic, and therefore more fun. I'm a WOW vet, so static non-dynamic quests no longer cut it since I know all the rules and tricks of the game like the back of my hand.  Throw in some entirely randomized teammates on the other hand, and you get anything from tough challenges to amazing feats.  "Challenges" being things like dragging a group of misfits through an instance which would normally destroy them.  "Feats" being things like turbo-charged 6 min runs, or huge AOE pulls and non-stop chain-pulling.

Basically tanking PUGs rewards me for judging the exact capabilities of my group as well as any number of other dynamic factors (cooldowns up/down; what types of mobs are in the next few groups; what LOS options are there; etc).

I'd concede that DPSing is less enjoyable because a bad player tanking has total control over getting the group wiped, so there's no way for you to dynamically alter your DPSing playstyle to account for the fact that the noob pulled too many and got everyone killed (or does pulls extremely slow, which amounts to the same wasted time.)  This is probably why many DPS classes get the ability to exit combat -- so at least the tank's noobtastic pulls don't penalize you as much, even if they still suck.  As healer, you're in the middle ground between the two roles.

If there were some real challenging instances (not raids) then I'd be compelled to hook back up with my old friends on the server to do some pro runs of places.  But sadly there's a distinct lack of "45 min baron runs" (and even that wasn't very hard).  Closest WOW gets is Halls of Reflection (Heroic) which is still not all that hard and more a gear-check than a playstyle-check (which 45-baron was)

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

That's really had when you think about it, I had a real life friend once, not sure if he still plays it but I've not seen him forever now and WoW pretty much destroyed our friendship, I had a feeling my "dog eat dog" statement would be true,it seems like MMORPG's are not meant for friendships anymore, what is the point in MMORPG's when you could just play an RPG game like Final Fantasy. I don't think I'll ever come across anyone around where I live who plays WoW now.

I tried General, no-one ever speaks to you and it's not a global channel like Trade but you can't talk on that because it's meant to be used for "trading".

Most people use trade for all sorts of nonsense, but to be honest, if you want to talk, there are methods to do it.  The problem is having people to talk with, which is something you've got to take upon yourself.  If you can't find real life friends that play WOW, I doubt you'll have any better luck with other games though.   Certainly won't find different people as a rule.

that said, you can find some good people, like I did.   Met some great friends in WOW. YMMV.

Originally posted by TheExplorer

 

So yes, you can judge a game from level 1-10 because if a game doesn't start to level 60 or 80 or whatever, then it isn't worth playing. A sandbox game hooks you from the start.

Every sandbox game I've played has been pretty much dead from the start, without ever meeting anybody, without ever finding anything to do.  I could tell there was content later, but...it would take forever to get to it.   And that includes 2 from your list.

Originally posted by Blueharp

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

That's really had when you think about it, I had a real life friend once, not sure if he still plays it but I've not seen him forever now and WoW pretty much destroyed our friendship, I had a feeling my "dog eat dog" statement would be true,it seems like MMORPG's are not meant for friendships anymore, what is the point in MMORPG's when you could just play an RPG game like Final Fantasy. I don't think I'll ever come across anyone around where I live who plays WoW now.

I tried General, no-one ever speaks to you and it's not a global channel like Trade but you can't talk on that because it's meant to be used for "trading".

Most people use trade for all sorts of nonsense, but to be honest, if you want to talk, there are methods to do it.  The problem is having people to talk with, which is something you've got to take upon yourself.  If you can't find real life friends that play WOW, I doubt you'll have any better luck with other games though.   Certainly won't find different people as a rule.

that said, you can find some good people, like I did.   Met some great friends in WOW. YMMV.

Are you come to tell me that I shouldn't play MMORPG's because I don't have real life friends? If that's the case then I guess I shouldn't play these type of games anymore. =p

Edit: I had a feeling this would be the end of my MMORPG days, never realised MMORPGs were meant to be played with people you know in real life, since I don't have any then I guess I'll leave now and stick to the single player only games. =(

Fairewell...I suppose I was never meant to play MMO's anyway. =(

Posted by RudyRaccoon on 4/06/10 at 5:04:41 PM

WoW

Very rude, immature and dreadful community that's also non-existiant. The community can be terrible but honestly I never had a problem with the community when I first started or today becuase I chose to surround myself with people that I could get along with. Not joining a guild in WoW that you can get along with will undoubtly make the game a real drag. Oh yeah...and turning off trade chat helped too :).

Aion

Music isn't interesting. If there is anything that I got from that game that really impressed me was the music, It fit the world perfectly and in combination with the graphics really made the world immersive. just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by Acvivm

Posted by RudyRaccoon on 4/06/10 at 5:04:41 PM

WoW

Very rude, immature and dreadful community that's also non-existiant. The community can be terrible but honestly I never had a problem with the community when I first started or today becuase I chose to surround myself with people that I could get along with. Not joining a guild in WoW that you can get along with will undoubtly make the game a real drag. Oh yeah...and turning off trade chat helped too :).

Problem is most guilds are purely raiding guilds, I don't think you can find a proper social guild that you can join as level 1 or 10 and they normally only have about 5-10 members. The biggest problem is actually finding a guild but then again the whole guild thing is not needed anymore due to the new LFG tool. Shame you really need real life friends to play this game. =(

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by Nephaerius

OP, Did you at least make it to cap in any of these games?

No, the highest I ever got on WoW was level 63. Other games not passed level 10.

Ahh OK suspected as much, that explains your perspective.

I should add I think the recent discussion on WoW community has stumbled onto what can make MMO's great .....the social aspects. Of course the game has to have some meat on it's bones but community can truly elevate a game. Or is it the good game systems that encourage community?