I jump in real life. 

Originally posted by midgey555

 

 

I havent played FFXI in years, I quit when it was still pretty new 1 and half year...maybe 2 years and I loved the game, just took me 4 hours to do anything at all.  I dont know how much it changed but one of the few things that bugged me in that game was how linear running around felt.  In many areas you had to stick to a given path or road.  If there was a road and to your right there was grass then that grass cut you off. 

Umm.... What exactly are you talking about? Grass does not "cut you off" in FFXI. Ledges, fences and other obstructions do.

Running around felt linear? Are you sure you were playing FFXI, because I've been playing the game 7+ years now, and I have no bloody idea what you are talking about.

There wasnt much freedom in being able to roam around.  I realize sometimes it gets annoying having kids jump around in circles but If theres a rock in my way I like to jump over it.  Its fun seeing where you can get to or if you can jump to a certain place to make a shortcut.  I wouldnt say it determines whether I would play a game or not, im excited for FF, I just wish there was a little more freedom than in FFXI.

 What the hell? What areas are you talking about? The only areas that restrict movement off a path are those that are designed specifically that way... the Jungles, areas of Zi'tah, etc... But by and large, the majority of the areas in FFXI are fully explorable, outside the normal obstructions you face in any MMO.... cliffs, boulders, walls, etc...

Seriously... I think you need to reach back and remember exactly what MMO you're describing, because it's not FFXI.

Originally posted by ZorakGhostal

I jump in real life. 

I don't, no really I can't recall the last time I have jumped in real life.

Years probably, I don't play basketball or baseball or anything where jumping is a factor, I just go to work go home and such.  Jumping in my game of life would be entirely useless.

Originally posted by Apricoth

 Although jumping can be kind of fun the novelty of it does wear off and in the end it's a "who cares" scenario. If the game doesn't need it I won't shed tears if it doesn't have it. My move from EQ1 to FFXI was a shocker - it took some time for me to adjust to the fact that I could not jump away to safety while being nearly mauled by a mob.  You just learn to adapt.

You learn to adapt if you are paralized and confined to a wheelchair. That does not mean your quality of life has not diminished.

The ability to jump adds the option of gameplay elements like stepping stones which broaden the gameplay experience.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Apricoth

 Although jumping can be kind of fun the novelty of it does wear off and in the end it's a "who cares" scenario. If the game doesn't need it I won't shed tears if it doesn't have it. My move from EQ1 to FFXI was a shocker - it took some time for me to adjust to the fact that I could not jump away to safety while being nearly mauled by a mob.  You just learn to adapt.

You learn to adapt if you are paralized and confined to a wheelchair. That does not mean your quality of life has not diminished.

The ability to jump adds the option of gameplay elements like stepping stones which broaden the gameplay experience.

You also learn to adapt if someone invents a new forum of interface (for instance a mouse)  I was around when this invention took the main stream computer world by storm!   

So many people insisted they didn't need a mouse they were fine without it, it slowed them down.

People still don't use them if they don't like it.

Just because you assume that everyone needs some thing that is amazingly vital to you, does not mean that it is in fact amazingly vital to everyone.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

 

You also learn to adapt if someone invents a new forum of interface (for instance a mouse)  I was around when this invention took the main stream computer world by storm!   

So many people insisted they didn't need a mouse they were fine without it, it slowed them down.

People still don't use them if they don't like it.

Just because you assume that everyone needs some thing that is amazingly vital to you, does not mean that it is in fact amazingly vital to everyone.

You have your analogy backwards. Jumping is something that is missing from the game, not something new that is being added. It's not innovation - it is a missing feature.

Also - I never made any claims about how many other players consider jumping to be important. Nor did I imply it was a deal-breaker for me.

Only game that uses jumping right is Assassin's Creed.  All other games should get rid of it :P

Originally posted by Gravarg

Only game that uses jumping right is Assassin's Creed.  All other games should get rid of it :P

Mario says no.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gravarg

Only game that uses jumping right is Assassin's Creed.  All other games should get rid of it :P

Mario says no.

80% of the NES-Genisis-SNES catalog would disagree XD

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Apricoth

 Although jumping can be kind of fun the novelty of it does wear off and in the end it's a "who cares" scenario. If the game doesn't need it I won't shed tears if it doesn't have it. My move from EQ1 to FFXI was a shocker - it took some time for me to adjust to the fact that I could not jump away to safety while being nearly mauled by a mob.  You just learn to adapt.

You learn to adapt if you are paralized and confined to a wheelchair. That does not mean your quality of life has not diminished.

The ability to jump adds the option of gameplay elements like stepping stones which broaden the gameplay experience.

You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?

/facepalm

I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy. There's a number of flaws in that comparison, forgetting the fact that you're likening a fictitious character in a game to a very real person paralyzed in real life. However, it's not even worth going into them, as I don't want to give your post any more attention than I have, other than to say, might want to work on your sense of perspective there.

Originally posted by WSIMike

 

You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?

/facepalm

I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy.

Come on, get serious. Read it again and think about it.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Laughing-man

 

You also learn to adapt if someone invents a new forum of interface (for instance a mouse)  I was around when this invention took the main stream computer world by storm!   

So many people insisted they didn't need a mouse they were fine without it, it slowed them down.

People still don't use them if they don't like it.

Just because you assume that everyone needs some thing that is amazingly vital to you, does not mean that it is in fact amazingly vital to everyone.

You have your analogy backwards. Jumping is something that is missing from the game, not something new that is being added. It's not innovation - it is a missing feature.

Also - I never made any claims about how many other players consider jumping to be important. Nor did I imply it was a deal-breaker for me.

I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature." 

I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.

Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay.  (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)

It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.

Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature." 

I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.

Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay.  (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)

Just make the walls higher than jumping height. Fixed.

It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.

Put a cooldown on the jump ability. Fixed.

I find bounders annoying too, but not nearly as annoying as having to run around terrain features which would not be impassaible to me in RL.

Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.

It's sloppy design to allow careless graphic design - OR an integral flaw in their engine.

The inablility to jump and swim removes those elements from gameplay. You can't have places that require jumping or swimming to access them, for example. Take a look at WoW's underwater areas and tell me you're not missing out being unable to swim.

The more gameplay options you have - the richer the potential experience.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Laughing-man

I would like to disagree then that jumping is a "missing feature." 

I think that jumping takes away from the experience, the same way a cash shop does.

Not only does jumping add the possibility of many exploitable situations and causes the designers to have to go out of their way to have to fix any of those situations, which takes time away from making better core gameplay.  (for instance exploiting walls to kill monsters without them being able to kill you)

Just make the walls higher than jumping height. Fixed.

It also does wonderful things like kills immersion, generally the jump animation in games is done very poorly, seeing someone bunny hop around town or just stand in place and jump repeatedly takes away from others game play.

Put a cooldown on the jump ability. Fixed.

I find bounders annoying too, but not nearly as annoying as having to run around terrain features which would not be impassaible to me in RL.

Its a design choice, if they decide to add in jumping I'm sure they will have spent the time to implement it correctly, however if they do not there are a stack of reasons they have to point to when some people cry foul.

It's sloppy design to allow careless graphic design - OR an integral flaw in their engine.

The inablility to jump and swim removes those elements from gameplay. You can't have places that require jumping or swimming to access them, for example. Take a look at WoW's underwater areas and tell me you're not missing out being unable to swim.

The more gameplay options you have - the richer the potential experience.

Honestly I Loath every quest that requires me to go under water or through water to get to an island just to do a quest.  I've hated it ever since DAOC when they did Trials of Atlantis.

If they let you do a jump for ENTIRELY cosmetic reasons would that satisfy you?

Then they have jumping, look at the video and you can see them dancing, which there is jumping in their dancing.

If you want there to be places to jump "to" then why not just have them able to be walked to instead?  I don't see how jumping not being in the game detracts from the ability to explore, or how swimming adds to it. 

If the same amount of "area" is available to be explored and the areas are diverse enough, then isn't the same goal achieved?  

These are the ridiculous stuff in life that makes it intresting.

I firmly believe they will not add jump to this game, but I think jumping adds some kinda instinctive sense of freedom. Preliminary. I'll come with a conclusion when the game is out! Who else other than me can not wait for that next time crusher MMORPG to come out, where we can socialize, argument and flame eachother? I can see a discussion about jumping coming up next in-game.

"WTF, SE DID NOT ADD JUMP?"

"WTFGTFO, BACK TO WOW PLZ"

or counterwise. Watch out so I don't let my technoviking jump loose on you.

im wondering what it is these 'jumpers' are wanting to jump over exactly.. its not mirrors edge after all.... next thing you know they'll be wanting crosshairs in the center of the screen.. oh wait.. its not an fps either..

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by WSIMike

 

You're seriously comparing jumping in a game because it doesn't require it, to being confined to a wheelchair in real life because you're paralyzed?

/facepalm

I realilze you were going for "impact" there by using such an extreme example, but it's a horrible analogy.

Come on, get serious. Read it again and think about it.

Okay... I read it again, and there's nothing to think about... It's a ridiculous analogy.

Using the limitations placed on a paryalyzed person in real life, and their diminished quality of life as an argument for jumping in a video game is absurd.

It was an attempt on your part to give your argument more "impact", and a failed one at that. I'm typically cynical of human nature in general, but I'm fairly sure when asked, that few people would agree that not being able to jump in a video game is analagous to being physically handicapped and bound to a wheelchair in reality. I wouldn't be surprised if a few didn't take you or the question at all seriously.

Try this .... Talk to someone who is truly handicapped and bound to a wheelchar in real life, who can't even *walk* much less run or jump, and then tell them that it's just like not being able to jump in a video game, that the "quality of life" is diminished in a similar way... and be 100% serious about it. Tell me how they react.

You prefer jumping in a video game and feel it offers you more freedom during gameplay. Wonderful. You could simply say that without using handicapped people in real life to make your point.

Originally posted by Phry

im wondering what it is these 'jumpers' are wanting to jump over exactly.. its not mirrors edge after all.... next thing you know they'll be wanting crosshairs in the center of the screen.. oh wait.. its not an fps either..

I find it amazing that it's *so* important, and *so* crucial, and *so* critical to some peopel that they wouldn't play the game if it doesn't have it, or go so far as to say the game would be a failure... even in the face of other MMOs that have no jumping and have done just fine.

If the game design warrants it, then great...

This talk of "more freedom" and "more immersive" and "more realistic"....

What's funny about that last bit... "more realistic" is that some people will argue for jumping because it's "more realistic", but then will scoff when I suggest that more realistic jumping would include a stamina bar or something of that sort where each time you jump, it's depleted... if you jump repeatedly in rapid succession, it drops faster because you're wearing yourself out more quickly (just like in real life). Additionally, other tasks also require stamina so you need to make sure you don't blow thruogh it all or you might not have it when you really need it. Also, jumping should also potentially draw aggro... especially jumping near aggressive enemies. This way the player has to be careful of when they jump and time it right so as to not draw attention to themselves and/or their party members.

I would be perfectly fine with that.

Interestingly though... many of those who argue for jumping because they want "more realism" don't like the idea.

Wonder why that is?

Well, of course it's a question of design, you could make a game that'd work with various sorts of movement designs after all... You could go isometric and just click-to-move; or you could throw out running and make everybody walk, or heck, you could even throw out walking backwards, and all of these different movement decisions can work given they fit the overall design.

Still, people are used to doing things, or controlling their in-game characters a certain way in MMOs. For example, you could make a case for the needlessness of strafing in an MMO, and you might turn out to be right, given the overall design of that game.... but if that game's generally similar to other MMOs, experienced players will probably feel the movement is awkward, maybe even stifling. That's because they'd have played enough MMOs that the character movement has largely become second nature to them, like an extension of their will, instead of something you consciously think about. So the absence of one of the basic forms of movement (namely jumping) will break that second-nature way of working and put the  player ill at ease.

For myself, yeah, it's a bit like losing strafing to me. I can get used to its absence, but would much rather have it in.