Ols MMO's =  Sim City 2000

New MMO's = FarmVille

New mmo's are more popular, but has not sould or enough mechanics or fun to be called Games.  The G in MMORPG is false for all the latest MMO's.  People play these games because of the adiction, just the adiction, withouth a fun component. 

Originally posted by Attacko

"casual players"  or "noobs" etc- in gaming,  it is used in a derogetory sense.

noob is a degorative term.

definition:

a noob person is one that don't know the rules of a community, and refuse to learn these, so act like a newbie even years before using that community. 

a newbie person is one that is new on a community. 

is obvious to you why noob is a degorative term? is on his very definition. 

on internet you will find people that don't know the netiquette and use noob for newbie. ignore these people, most are noob's thenselves. 

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Zippy

Hardcore players in my experience are much better skilleld than casuals and can kill much harder mobs.  It only makes sense as not only do they have more MMO expereince but a greater knowledge of the game, more play time, better knowledge of their class and likley are much more serious about what they do.  Generally hardcore players can achieve max level in 2-4 times as fast as a casual player because they are much more efficient and have better skills and knowledge than casuals. 

Of course we are generalizing and averaging here but many if not most casuals have almost no knowledge about the games they pretend to play.  Of course games are dumbed down for these people.  Look at almost all modern games player power vs.  mob power is silly.  Players are genrally way overpowered for the mob encounters meaning almost all MMOs can be played without any thought or challenge.  With the small exception of raiding and a few difficult quests like Vanguard's griffon questline.  This is a pattern that has continued as MMOs have become more and more mainstream and the pretend players started joining.

Casuals are the worst thing in MMOs.  They whine constantly, want everything easy, are rude and have no understanding of MMO ettiquitte and courtsey and are all about themselves.  If anything is ever put in game they cannot have or that is to hard for them, watchout because here comes the I spend the same amount per money as players who work harder than me and I should be given these items without doing  a  darn thing argument.  They are devs nightmare as all MMOs are dumbed down to meet their level.  Very sad.  I would love to see some MMO's put in casual servers to get rid of these people.  Not only would it up the difficulty on the regular servers but the community would improve immensely.

Congratulations on your three paragraphs of sanctimonious elitism.

The highlighted comment was especially humourous given the tone of your post.

As I stated previously; you're not talking about casual gamers. The only difference between a casual and a hardcore gamer is the amount of time that we are able to put into the game. We don't want easy content. We want content that is accessible within a reasonable time for a working adult with a life.

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

You're still simply trolling.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

Would it be something like Bejeweled with experience points?

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the most blatant use of strawman logic. Are you really that insecure and ignorant to assume that because most people don't want to invest half of their day, you know...because they have lives which I'm sure if foreign to you, they automatically want everything handed to them. Are you really that dense and immature? There is a thing called a middle ground. You can have an MMO that allows for casual players to feel like they accomplish something within a short period of time while at the same time providing content that is fairly difficult because it requires a substantial gear grind and group or raid coordination that pleases the hardcore crowd. Casual gamers don't want things handed to them like you idiotically are claiming, they just don't want to have to be forced to choose between working a full-time job or playing a game full-time.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the most blatant use of strawman logic. Are you really that insecure and ignorant to assume that because most people don't want to invest half of their day, you know...because they have lives which I'm sure if foreign to you, they automatically want everything handed to them. Are you really that dense and immature? There is a thing called a middle ground. You can have an MMO that allows for casual players to feel like they accomplish something within a short period of time while at the same time providing content that is fairly difficult because it requires a substantial gear grind and group or raid coordination that pleases the hardcore crowd. Casual gamers don't want things handed to them like you idiotically are claiming, they just don't want to have to be forced to choose between working a full-time job or playing a game full-time.

If they don't want things handed to them, why are they getting things handed to them again?  Because they whine about everything?

I guess your casual arguments are:

You either play 5 minutes per day and have a life, or you play 10 hours per day and don't have a life. 

Fact is, there aren't any zones in WoW that take more than an hour or two anymore.  Too much to invest a few hours once every few nights for a challenging raid zone?  They have so much of a "life", they can't even log on for more than 5 minutes a day.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

Would it be something like Bejeweled with experience points?

No. An MMO that is accessible to someone who works full time, has a family and sleeps.

Originally posted by happyiksar

 

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

I for one think WoW accessibility is a blessing, while the game's overall simplicity is a curse. Nothing wrong with getting PUGs faster, because PUGs themselves will always pair you with idiots, at least you can get to the stupidity faster. The one thing that astonishes me though, is that even games like AoC has group dungeons and boss battles that blow WoW's out of the water (in my experience). Tank and spank is *dead*, games are now adopting scripted events mid-battle like they do in single-player games - and it's awesome. I'm sure WoW is doing this with newer content now that I think about it, but I don't care. I've been over it for quite some time.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

20 minute raids? .. casuals who only ever log on for 5 minutes a day? .. bosses that commit suicide to give free loot to casuals? .. no. You and the word "factual" are not even vaguely acquainted.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

20 minute raids? .. casuals who only ever log on for 5 minutes a day? .. bosses that commit suicide to give free loot to casuals? .. no. You and the word "factual" are not even vaguely acquainted.

Some of WoW raids are less than 20 minutes.  What is that boss that just sits in a zone by himself at the entrance?  That is less than 5-10 minutes.. lol

And those same bosses I refer to, you basically need to turn on auto attack and mash heals to beat them anymore, even the 25 man version.   If that isn't free loot I don't know what is.  Simpler than solo PVE content.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the most blatant use of strawman logic. Are you really that insecure and ignorant to assume that because most people don't want to invest half of their day, you know...because they have lives which I'm sure if foreign to you, they automatically want everything handed to them. Are you really that dense and immature? There is a thing called a middle ground. You can have an MMO that allows for casual players to feel like they accomplish something within a short period of time while at the same time providing content that is fairly difficult because it requires a substantial gear grind and group or raid coordination that pleases the hardcore crowd. Casual gamers don't want things handed to them like you idiotically are claiming, they just don't want to have to be forced to choose between working a full-time job or playing a game full-time.

 

If they don't want things handed to them, why are they getting things handed to them again? 

Are you really this dense? How exactly are they getting things handed to them? You act like players log in the game for the first time and they're given a level 80 character with top tier arena or raid gear. Why are you so insecure and afraid of players who have healthy social and professional lives playing MMOs? I mean, you still have to reach level 80, which requires hundreds of hours, and then you need to get that top tier gear which also requires hundreds of hours of grinding dungeons, heroics, raids, arena matches, etc. So, explain to me how things are being handed to players when there's obviously a huge time investment involved already?

I seriously don't think you'll be happy unless your MMO comes with a bed pan.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

20 minute raids? .. casuals who only ever log on for 5 minutes a day? .. bosses that commit suicide to give free loot to casuals? .. no. You and the word "factual" are not even vaguely acquainted.

 

Some of WoW raids are less than 20 minutes.  What is that boss that just sits in a zone by himself at the entrance?  That is less than 5-10 minutes.. lol

And those same bosses I refer to, you basically need to turn on auto attack and mash heals to beat them anymore, even the 25 man version.   If that isn't free loot I don't know what is.  Simpler than solo PVE content.

The fact that you can't even name these raids or bosses speaks to your inability to tell the truth.

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

Anyone calling this man a troll is needs to figure out what a troll is. His points are all valid and I for one agree with them. UO wasn't dumbed down in the beginning, people made things to do in it. Now it is dumbed down, thanks to people whining about how hard it was. SWG wasn't dumbed down in the beginning, now look at it. WoW wasn't even this dumbed down in the beginning, now look at it. Do I need to go on with example after example? Aion, LoTRO, etc... etc..... etc......

The poster is right, they are now nothing more than graphical chatroom with gameplay tossed in on the side.

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the most blatant use of strawman logic. Are you really that insecure and ignorant to assume that because most people don't want to invest half of their day, you know...because they have lives which I'm sure if foreign to you, they automatically want everything handed to them. Are you really that dense and immature? There is a thing called a middle ground. You can have an MMO that allows for casual players to feel like they accomplish something within a short period of time while at the same time providing content that is fairly difficult because it requires a substantial gear grind and group or raid coordination that pleases the hardcore crowd. Casual gamers don't want things handed to them like you idiotically are claiming, they just don't want to have to be forced to choose between working a full-time job or playing a game full-time.

 

If they don't want things handed to them, why are they getting things handed to them again? 

Are you really this dense? How exactly are they getting things handed to them? You act like players log in the game for the first time and they're given a level 80 character with top tier arena or raid gear. Why are you so insecure and afraid of players who have healthy social and professional lives playing MMOs? I mean, you still have to reach level 80, which requires hundreds of hours, and then you need to get that top tier gear which also requires hundreds of hours of grinding dungeons, heroics, raids, arena matches, etc. So, explain to me how things are being handed to players when there's obviously a huge time investment involved already?

I seriously don't think you'll be happy unless your MMO comes with a bed pan.

How are they getting things handed to them?  Well, they are getting things handed to them, that is how.

Huge time investment? Lol.  I don't think it takes 100 hours.  And getting that kind of gear just means finding the right zone, which, with portals/maps all over the game, isn't that difficult.  No challenge anymore, because of "casuals", or players who can't invest any time or are bad at the game.

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by happyiksar

Yeah, like 5 minutes per day.. That is how long casuals want to play MMORPGs. Because anything more than that is for those hardcore players who don't have a life.

It's funny how WoWs audience is basically the people who only log in a few minutes then log off.  Oh, I got to raise my fishing skill by 3 points today. 

Since their game is designed like that, they design it as a series of mini games.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute instance, log out.  Log in, do a 20-30 minute raid, log out.  Go to cheap WoW zone with boss sitting at entrance, log out.  Go do a Battleground, log out.

What part of their game actually involves getting into it?  Everything about WoW is casual.  They want easy mode content, bosses sitting at entrances, bosses that die once they see the casuals in the zone, etc.

You're simply trolling. You have no idea what casuals want.

My description of WoW is factually accurate.  Who is responsible for those features in WoW?  The people who want a challenge or the people who want easy mode?

20 minute raids? .. casuals who only ever log on for 5 minutes a day? .. bosses that commit suicide to give free loot to casuals? .. no. You and the word "factual" are not even vaguely acquainted.

 

Some of WoW raids are less than 20 minutes.  What is that boss that just sits in a zone by himself at the entrance?  That is less than 5-10 minutes.. lol

And those same bosses I refer to, you basically need to turn on auto attack and mash heals to beat them anymore, even the 25 man version.   If that isn't free loot I don't know what is.  Simpler than solo PVE content.

The fact that you can't even name these raids or bosses speaks to your inability to tell the truth.

Vault of Archavon? lol

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by happyiksar

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Pfft, silliness.

Casual is the MMO game.

 

Lol, what a joke. 

Casuals just picked MMO's because they wanted a chat room.

Once they got to MMOS, they begged the company to dumb down the game for them, to make easy mode content, to give out free gear, to put in content that takes no time, to put in bosses that take no skill.

They should go play mIRC.  That is a nice chat program too. 

 

No point in playing an MMORPG that isn't an MMORPG.   They're gonna want characters that start out at 80, and the best gear to start on their character, etc.  They don't want to put in any time to get what usually does take time.  They don't want to put in any effort for things that require effort.

Any game for casuals ends up being a dumbed down game with a bunch of handouts.  Gear, character, etc. are all worthless in those type of games, because they want to hand out everything to everyone.

 

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the most blatant use of strawman logic. Are you really that insecure and ignorant to assume that because most people don't want to invest half of their day, you know...because they have lives which I'm sure if foreign to you, they automatically want everything handed to them. Are you really that dense and immature? There is a thing called a middle ground. You can have an MMO that allows for casual players to feel like they accomplish something within a short period of time while at the same time providing content that is fairly difficult because it requires a substantial gear grind and group or raid coordination that pleases the hardcore crowd. Casual gamers don't want things handed to them like you idiotically are claiming, they just don't want to have to be forced to choose between working a full-time job or playing a game full-time.

 

If they don't want things handed to them, why are they getting things handed to them again? 

Are you really this dense? How exactly are they getting things handed to them? You act like players log in the game for the first time and they're given a level 80 character with top tier arena or raid gear. Why are you so insecure and afraid of players who have healthy social and professional lives playing MMOs? I mean, you still have to reach level 80, which requires hundreds of hours, and then you need to get that top tier gear which also requires hundreds of hours of grinding dungeons, heroics, raids, arena matches, etc. So, explain to me how things are being handed to players when there's obviously a huge time investment involved already?

I seriously don't think you'll be happy unless your MMO comes with a bed pan.

 

How are they getting things handed to them?  Well, they are getting things handed to them, that is how.

Wow, brilliant argument. Glad this proves you're not just insecure troll and you have some logic and common sense to back up your absurd claims.