Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by RajCaj

For the OP....good summary.  But, in my opinion there are only 2 ways to fix Lineage 2's problem......reducing the value of items (which is what they have done for sub A grade gear) or figure out a full proof way to stop all bots and never let them return.

The laws of supply and demand create a situation where there is HUGE opprotunity for people that can run a full group of characters, gathering gold and items, around the clock with automated programs.  Call it hard core if you want.  The only people its hard core for is the people who refuse to cheat.  Its like the mom & pop store trying to compete with Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart gets to sell stuff much much cheaper because they deal with a much higher volume than the small store.  The small store goes out of business because prices Wal-Mart is charging is lower than the value of the small store's time and effort.  You spend an entire day farming SOPs and get to town to find that all the farmers that put zero effort into getting 10x the amount of SOPs you got are selling them at a price thats not worth your time.

The only way to get rid of farmers is to take away the incentive.....lower the value of items.  I came back to L2 after the latest patch that introduced common items and I did not run into a single farmer group in the sub 40 lvl areas.  Coincedence?  It wasn't until higher level mats started dropping that I seen farmer groups. 

As for the auction house.....would have been awesome back when L2 actually had a decent server population.  The majority of the sell & buy shops in Giran is for farmers.  If you set up an auction system, every city will be a ghost town.......not a good impression for new players who show up and see there is no one around.  Not to mention, you wouldn't have to pay for an extra account to sell stuff if you want to actually play your character when your home.  A lot of people use alt accounts to sell stuff while they play their main toon.  Thats extra money for NCSoft.

 

i like your solution, reducing the value of items. Make it easier to get items and gear and you wont have people buying and selling adena. Although there would still be a bot problem, atleast NCsoft could fix the adena trade by doing what you said.

The last game that used the "common" item system was UO (to my knowledge).  Even with a full loot system, gold and items was easy enough to get that there was no need to shortcut the system.  Low Demand, high Supply.....no farmers.

I get the intentions of L2 was to make things harder.  There is obviously a niche market for the "hardcore" game.....it creates a higher value and attachment a player has for their character and items....and harder to give up in today's fickle MMO market.  BUT, you have to keep people from short cutting the system.  You have to keep people from short cutting the system by allowing farmers to give the edge to who ever has the most $$$.  The people who refuse to cheat are the ones that get the short end of the deal.  Thats not a good way to retain customers.....the right kind of customers.

When the game's "end game" is based around the community, you need more than cheats and china farmers that can't speak english to make it work for the long haul.

In a perfect world, L2 could have been a MMO force in the PvP genere.  The tides of alliances and trechery would have been above and beyond any new PvE expansion promissing a new dungeon and super difficult boss fight.  Castle Sieges in Chronicle 1-2 with over 750-850 people on the field at the same time was one of the most fun MMO experiences I've ever had.

I was lured to L2 during the NA alpha by Richard Garriott.  I stayed with the game until June 2008, had a few mid-70's with decent equipment that I was able to obtain by crafting, help from friends and playing the market, but I actually didn't play hardly at all during the last 18 months of my subscription.

I left because the game just got old for me.  Also, by that time, a number of my friends had quit the game.  I came back about a month before my subscription ran out to try the game again and rolled a one-winged race (forget the name or the class) and got her to mid-20's.  While I was aware of most of the "exciting" changes and additions NCSoft had planned for the game, I decided not to resubscribe.

I'd gotten involved in other MMO pre-release projects, first was Vanguard (dropped that game in closed beta when Brad McQuaid ran away and Sigil sold out ot SOE), then Lord of the Rings Online (I've still got a Lifetime Founder account), then Age of Conan (still waiting for a release quality game - if that happens I may go back) and Warhammer On Line (didn't pan out as expected after release).

I dabble in LotRO regularly, meanwhile, I'm not in a beta ATM.   I passed on other beta offers, such as Earthrise.  I'm keeping up on the hobby while I'm waiting to test The Old Republic and a few other exciting products on the horizon.

Been playing Lineage for more than 4 years. I've seen the occasional bot turn into a Bot fest. I've seen NCSoft make changes that benefit the Farmers. The economy is controlled by the Adena sellers that are also the major suppliers of top grade armour and weapons ...especially the OE ones. As the price of Adena sold by the sellers goes down the price of the equipment goes up. This is just the way the sellers make the same amount of RL money. The problem is that to the legit players its a spiral they can't keep up with. IMO its a great game destroyed by  NC cause they refused to enforce their own EULAs for their financial gain. I have made some great friends in the game otherwise i would have left when they removed the ability to train bots for their equipment or when they changed the drop tables to where only a bot could farm key mats with any kind of success.

The same Bot problem exists in Aion and as a matter fact i'm told its worse. There, Bots sit and wait for mobs to spawn. So maybe bots are a problem in all MMOs...just seems that in NC's games they are an extra special problem that eventually leads to a distorted economy.

Originally posted by DrTulp

Been playing Lineage for more than 4 years. I've seen the occasional bot turn into a Bot fest. I've seen NCSoft make changes that benefit the Farmers. The economy is controlled by the Adena sellers that are also the major suppliers of top grade armour and weapons ...especially the OE ones. As the price of Adena sold by the sellers goes down the price of the equipment goes up. This is just the way the sellers make the same amount of RL money. The problem is that to the legit players its a spiral they can't keep up with. IMO its a great game destroyed by  NC cause they refused to enforce their own EULAs for their financial gain. I have made some great friends in the game otherwise i would have left when they removed the ability to train bots for their equipment or when they changed the drop tables to where only a bot could farm key mats with any kind of success.

The same Bot problem exists in Aion and as a matter fact i'm told its worse. There, Bots sit and wait for mobs to spawn. So maybe bots are a problem in all MMOs...just seems that in NC's games they are an extra special problem that eventually leads to a distorted economy.

Definitely a real problem, but only outside of Asia.  The Eastern moral code is quite different from the western.  We've all seen the "shocking" stories and the videos of the Asian farmer "sweat shops" -- appauling to us westerners, but many Asian countries and people there see absolutely nothing wrong with it.  Muh.

It's just a fact of life and there's nothing that will change very much, infortunately, with Lineage 2 and the other Asian games that allow it.  Lately, many of the F2P "Play For Free" MMOs have incorporated a "store" or some kind of on line facility for players of their "free" games to purchase in game items for RL money.  Hell, even SOE has done this as well - with some success I might add.

Personally, I no longer play Lineage 2, nor do I consider any of the F2P games as viable.  As for SOE, I will never trust Sony again after the NGE disaster.

There are plenty of MMOs where Farmers are a non-problem.  I gravitate to those games now.

I played from beta all the way to C5, and a little bit of the new stuff off and on. I see people complaining about adena sellers controlling the market... it was like that on day one and there really isn't anything that NCsoft can do to completely control this.

Just be lucky that most of you here did not have to experience the horrendous early days, where the  "adena sellers" would camp litterally everything. I remember killing these a-holes several times a day, just so I could have a place to level up. But low and behold, a ton of their farming buddies would rush in and own your face, it was a common thing.

Leveling rate was much much faster than your money making, hell I remember being level 35 with Mithril armor and a Bastard Sword. But, I played legit regardless.

Are all of you wearing pink glasses or something?

1. Lineage was supposed to be hardcore, i guess. Hardcore = NOT grinding/farming/leveling 20 hours a day!

2. Main reason of a f*cked up economy is, Maintaining yourself to actually level. Soulshot arent an option, there a must! If you buy 5k soulshot for amount X, and you use that 5k ss to farm. The amount of adena you will get from farming is < X. (< = less then). When Luna launched i started again. But I quit after 2 weeks, ik was level 27 or 29 and i ran out of money, I was still using gear i got @ level 6.

ps. dont bitch and dont call me noob, i played the game for 5 years, i know what im talking about.

3. NCsoft is not gonna stop the adenafarming/ebaying business. Simply because ATLEAST 25% of the payed accounts are Farmers. And probably 80% of the "real" players will quit if they cant ebay. NCsoft needs them farmers, cause the game is bady designed.

4. All the problems stated above are core problems, therefor it will NEVER be fixed. Yes they have shadow weapons up to level whatever. They are just delaying the problems untill your on a higher level.

I could go on and on about this game, for example why it can never be a PvP game in its current state, fact is i played the game for 5 years  .C1 was cool C2 was ok, then it all went terribly wrong. 

Oh yea BTW, MMORPG's cannot be called games!

Originally posted by Korvenus

I dont see anything wrong with the prices. The people that complain about prices are the people who do not know how to make money in the game.

yada yada yada  .........zzzzzzzz   

i totally disagree with you but I am not going to argue with you.

you win.

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Originally posted by csides88

Thanks for the reply. I did forget to mention common items and that is my fault. Common items are a great addition to make weapons and armor cheaper. A lot of people don't even enchant their armor. This makes common armor very helpful for those people but the armor loses its set bonus. My main purpose was to show my view points and the game communities view points on the economy and how to help it. I hope this gives people a better understanding and a little more incite on Lineage 2's economy.

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http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=200395
 

Most of these ideas were taken from the community. Unfortunately, I am limited to 1500 words. It is impossible to put forth all ideas in 1500 words or less so I just put in some. You have to remember that this isn't my job and I'm just doing this in the spare time of my real life. If other people think they can do it better...then do it.

nice article,

All i want in the game for materials or basic mats mostly would be. To give Warsmith's or any player the ability to crush and/or change loot items. To get materials from them. If you get avadon gaiters material, crush it and get skins and thread. Even better would be an option menu giving the exchange for that particular item. Make an Exchange Npc to see what possible items you could get for that exchange.

It would keep the basic mat prices down and also make it so there would be no taxes . Try it out on an event to see if it works. Has to be better than some of the earlier events we had.
 

Very interesting article and discussion.

But I think that you miss the point!

NCSoft earns money from botting and from selling adena for real money.

Actually NCSoft makes more money from botting and selling adena than from the subscription of the game!

So NCSoft forces the prices up to make more players to use bot programs and to pay real money for adena.

So this article is a nice try but has nothing to do with reality!

That's why NCSoft doesn't solve the problem with bots and adena.

It only bans some bots from time to time just to hide.

Lineage economy is based completely on bot system.

Even noobs know this!

Don't hide behind your thumb!

 First: You need also to be economical smart, find thing you that are valuable. NCSoft makes farming a part of the game you have to do. Not farming as in using a bot, but farming as in using a site to find particular stuff the market wants and spoil until you get it (and level in the process). 

Secondly: NCSoft stimulates a one clan takes it all policy. The end game is over, einheit won because big clan get all sort of extra's like clan skills. NCSoft didnt think people will forget it is a game but they do forget. Einheit members take part in TW and they dont fight 4 their party, they leave clan members in other parties alive and kill the game in the process.

Thirdly, back on subject, botting is out of control. There are a lot of big clan members that don't know how to play but they are 80+ I ask you why? They have 16+ weapons all of them... its not humanly possible almost to have 16+ weapons. It should be extremely rare, but here they are 100 of them all s80 +16

By the way our clan likes role playing and leveling and having fun. TW is not fun anymore, but necessary evil to lay there death and get batches & reps laying death...thank you einheit

I have played the game since OB/C1. The problem with L2 is that it is controlled by the RMT or at least on the Phoenix server. With changes NC has made since C1 they have helped the RMTs gain this status to the point i feel the company is behind them.

All those that say they "play the market" are LOL.

I mean think about it...everyone is trying to buy low and sell high...but you were successfull...LOL x2. Normally thats how the ebayer/botter justify their Adena gain.

I have a toon in the high 70s and still in A Armour. .. And if someone comes on and says i don't know how to play..i would sat that person is an idiot.

Save your money folks ..its a crap game run by an even crappier company. No live GMs, canned answers to petitions, just an all around POS.