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News & Features Discussion  » General: Janitor on the Death Star

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  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1613

3/16/10 6:14:14 PM#41
Originally posted by cirdane

the point I am making is don't try to make a player feel heroic by designing "heroic" content . make a WORLD where heroic things can happen in the course of  the adventure let people be hero's in their OWN way, and lose the idea of gear horing and super ubertoons. 

 


 

I wasn't going to reply to this thread because I've already posted some thoughts about this "heroic" stuff on a thread in the pub today but this was the best thing I've read in this thread and I just wanted to say so.

THIS, what you just said, is something that should be pounded into developers skulls.  None of the contrived crap a developer comes up with can ever make anyone feel heroic in a game, not really, and the harder they try the more ridiculous and contrived it all seems.

But if players can find their own little moments of heroism that aren't a part of some script and aren't just a part of the flash and dazzle that's put in to try to make you feel special, well, they may only be little moments but they mean infinitely more because there is a genuiness to it that can't be achieved by any pre-planned content.

  hanshotfirst

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/07
Posts: 727

3/16/10 6:35:01 PM#42
Originally posted by NovaKayne

I think SWG in its early days proved that some do ENJOY being the janitor on the Death Star.

And by "some" you mean a very small niche of players who couldn't provide/sustain the revenue either SOE or LucasArts expected.

 

  hanshotfirst

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/07
Posts: 727

3/16/10 6:42:14 PM#43
Originally posted by Toothman

 

The greatest thing the game offered was support classes that DID NOT NEED TO COMBAT.  In this aspect of the game it created a unique crafter / support  community that has never been done before and probably never done again. 

 

Y

You still don't  HAVE to do combat.

 

Yeah, but you're no longer obliged to buy their non-combat derived crap either (lol forced player interdependence), which is what they're really cheesed about.

Non-combat content ain't so much fun when you can't routinely price-gouge a captive audience over and over again.

  Bountytaker

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/07
Posts: 323

3/16/10 7:02:44 PM#44

Another thought:

By Mr. Webb's standards, COV and All Points Bulletin should never have been made.  After all, those games ask players to be "villains" too.  Yet, somehow, one has players, and the other has buzz.  How could games that ask players to be the antagonist, to play against the "heroic journey", be even conceived for today's modern mmo audience?

Could it be because, again, not everyone is obsessed with saving the princess from the castle?  Could it be that there are players out there that want to be the evil king who kidnaps the princess and surrounds her with evil minions and a trained dragon, just to see how it plays out?

Couldn't be.  Surely, everyone wants to play the same way...as Lord Victor von Amazing, Master of the Uberness!

  Xondar123

Gumshoe

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 2601

3/16/10 7:54:56 PM#45
Originally posted by neonaka

What amazes me out of all this, is the sheer amount of replies with this statement:

 

"I want to escape reality for a short period of time."

 

Anyone who watches TV is escaping reality. Anyone who watches a movie is escaping reality. Anyone who reads a book is escaping reality. Anyone who plays a boardgame is escaping reality.

Do the people who do all these things think they have miserable and "shitty" lives? Of course not! But guess what? There is a reason entertainment is called "escapism," and some of the greatest works of art in human history have been produced as escapism.

It would seem then that human beings naturally need to escape from their reality once in a while. It is a vital psychological mechanism that prevents us from going insane. All the way from Homer's The Illiad to William Shakespeare to Tolkien to the MMORPG, human beings need escapism in some way.

Denouncing that and then further denouncing someone's chosen form of escapism is just sad and very pathetic. I don't go around telling people they are morons for investing themselves emotionally in movies or TV shows, I wouldn't think them very polite if they said tthe same about me and MMOs.

xondar10 Xfire Miniprofile
  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

3/16/10 8:53:41 PM#46
Originally posted by hanshotfirst
Originally posted by NovaKayne

I think SWG in its early days proved that some do ENJOY being the janitor on the Death Star.

And by "some" you mean a very small niche of players who couldn't provide/sustain the revenue either SOE or LucasArts expected.

 

No, by "some" he means more than enough people to continuously pull in a significant monthly revenue. It wasn't a matter of they weren't making enough money to keep the lights on and still make enough to invest in other projects. It was a total case of the neighbors grass is this color green and I want that exact color. So they tried to dye the lawn and it's now a nice poo=poo shade of brown.

I'm not sure why it troubles you so to think that the amount of people who want that early style of gameplay isn't the small "niche" you've worked it up in your head to be, but they aren't. If that is the case then the only non-niche P2P game out there is WoW. If you subscribe to the latter, well, then I got not issue with your choice of words.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

3/16/10 8:58:01 PM#47
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Perhaps Stradden you should explore the thought "what is the point of an MMO?".  What is the one thing that separates MMO's from single player games?

COMMUNITY

For some reason, you, and so many developers just don't seem to get it ("you just sat there and it was fun?!").

Crafting is fun, entertaining is fun, non-combat is fun, guild/city management is fun, economy is fun... plunging the toilets on the Deathstar is fun... when you're part of and contributing to a community of like-minded human beings.

Yes, combat is awesome. Having those I'm so badass moments are necessary. But for me, and likely a huge now-untapped contingent of players, contributing to someone else's I'm so badass moment is just as rewarding, if not moreso.

Stradden didn't write this article. He only posted it, like he does with tons of other articles written for this site by other people. The article, and the intro of this thread which was written by Stradden tells you who did write the article.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Bob_Blawblaw

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1314

3/16/10 9:39:02 PM#48
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Perhaps Stradden you should explore the thought "what is the point of an MMO?".  What is the one thing that separates MMO's from single player games?

COMMUNITY

For some reason, you, and so many developers just don't seem to get it ("you just sat there and it was fun?!").

Crafting is fun, entertaining is fun, non-combat is fun, guild/city management is fun, economy is fun... plunging the toilets on the Deathstar is fun... when you're part of and contributing to a community of like-minded human beings.

Yes, combat is awesome. Having those I'm so badass moments are necessary. But for me, and likely a huge now-untapped contingent of players, contributing to someone else's I'm so badass moment is just as rewarding, if not moreso.

Stradden didn't write this article. He only posted it, like he does with tons of other articles written for this site by other people. The article, and the intro of this thread which was written by Stradden tells you who did write the article.

 

Now THAT was a big fat mistake on my part! Whoops! My apologies Stradden, I suppose I just enjoy picking on you!

  barezz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/18/07
Posts: 138

3/16/10 10:14:49 PM#49
[Mod Edit] 

The adventures that people remember, the "Journeys" that were truely great, were the unexpected and unique ones that you have the freedom to go on, with a sense of exploration and discovery.  I rarely get that form these quests and scripted encounters.  You beat them and go on, like a donkey being led by a carrot, to the next spoonfed quest.  They are fun for a brief moment, a little ding for that bit of Acheiver in us, and then forgotten.

I do agree that MMO's could look to RPG's for inspiration though, and for that I would suggest Morrowind, the Elder Scrolls.  It had story, quests AND freedom at a level that was amazing.  My wife ran through and completed the game, but my character became a vampire, which was very amusing.  My brother's meanhile found a way to get Vivic into a soulgem and built a house out of pillows.  Yes, they stole as many pillows as they could find and made a house.  Also one out of books.

Guess what the first thing we all think of is when Morrowind is mentioned, all these years later? 

You want a journey, I say that a game that gives you freedom will grant that journey, instead of the carrot on a stick routine.

  Coredin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 6

3/16/10 10:35:47 PM#50
Originally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by neonaka

What amazes me out of all this, is the sheer amount of replies with this statement:

 

"I want to escape reality for a short period of time."

 

Anyone who watches TV is escaping reality. Anyone who watches a movie is escaping reality. Anyone who reads a book is escaping reality. Anyone who plays a boardgame is escaping reality.

Do the people who do all these things think they have miserable and "shitty" lives? Of course not! But guess what? There is a reason entertainment is called "escapism," and some of the greatest works of art in human history have been produced as escapism.

It would seem then that human beings naturally need to escape from their reality once in a while. It is a vital psychological mechanism that prevents us from going insane. All the way from Homer's The Illiad to William Shakespeare to Tolkien to the MMORPG, human beings need escapism in some way.

Denouncing that and then further denouncing someone's chosen form of escapism is just sad and very pathetic. I don't go around telling people they are morons for investing themselves emotionally in movies or TV shows, I wouldn't think them very polite if they said tthe same about me and MMOs.

 

Maybe it's just a play on semantics, but wouldn't escaping reality mean you have something to run away from in life, that it's bothering you in some big or small way?

I play games cause I want to have fun, and entertain myself for a little bit. Not because i'm trying to escape something or get away from the horrors of real life. Maybe at that point someone has a bigger problem with real life than they do with a game. When you need a game to be purely for escaping reality, that's entering the realm of getting drunk or eating super fatty ice cream to escape something which aren't exactly good activities.

I do however understand that MMOs are something to do that you cannot do in real life, and maybe in that way they are an escape, like how a vacation is an escape. But from what I read, i believe the person you quoted from was complaining about the earlier people who escape reality with games cause their life sucks, and they dont want one bit of challenge in their game cause their like sucks and is challenging enough as it is. And I have to agree, if your life is so bad that a little bit of challenge in an online multiplayer game upsets you, you should either fix your life or play a social game.

  emikochan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 267

Welcome to my world.

3/16/10 11:55:27 PM#51
Originally posted by Coredin
Originally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by neonaka

What amazes me out of all this, is the sheer amount of replies with this statement:

 

"I want to escape reality for a short period of time."

 

Anyone who watches TV is escaping reality. Anyone who watches a movie is escaping reality. Anyone who reads a book is escaping reality. Anyone who plays a boardgame is escaping reality.

Do the people who do all these things think they have miserable and "shitty" lives? Of course not! But guess what? There is a reason entertainment is called "escapism," and some of the greatest works of art in human history have been produced as escapism.

It would seem then that human beings naturally need to escape from their reality once in a while. It is a vital psychological mechanism that prevents us from going insane. All the way from Homer's The Illiad to William Shakespeare to Tolkien to the MMORPG, human beings need escapism in some way.

Denouncing that and then further denouncing someone's chosen form of escapism is just sad and very pathetic. I don't go around telling people they are morons for investing themselves emotionally in movies or TV shows, I wouldn't think them very polite if they said tthe same about me and MMOs.

 

Maybe it's just a play on semantics, but wouldn't escaping reality mean you have something to run away from in life, that it's bothering you in some big or small way?

I play games cause I want to have fun, and entertain myself for a little bit. Not because i'm trying to escape something or get away from the horrors of real life. Maybe at that point someone has a bigger problem with real life than they do with a game. When you need a game to be purely for escaping reality, that's entering the realm of getting drunk or eating super fatty ice cream to escape something which aren't exactly good activities.

I do however understand that MMOs are something to do that you cannot do in real life, and maybe in that way they are an escape, like how a vacation is an escape. But from what I read, i believe the person you quoted from was complaining about the earlier people who escape reality with games cause their life sucks, and they dont want one bit of challenge in their game cause their like sucks and is challenging enough as it is. And I have to agree, if your life is so bad that a little bit of challenge in an online multiplayer game upsets you, you should either fix your life or play a social game.

You are indeed playing on semantics. When you aren't working for the progress of humanity you're escaping reality. Entertaining yourself with things that aren't "real" is escapism. 

"Fun" is a side effect of escapism imo. Life might not suck, but games are better than work. You shouldn't jump to extremes just because someone said escaping reality on a whim. Maybe you should think about why you play (and don't just work all the time).

 

On topic, I was expecting this response, the op is quite misguided about traditional mmo players, but it's relevant in today's toned down mmo worlds. 

The oldschool players like their freedom, a lot of new players don't like having too many choices. It may be due to the games they played before the mmos (older games required a lot more imagination)

Personally, I hope devs will selectively take good things from other genres (complex and intuitive combat systems for example) and keep things that make MMOs unique (persistance and crafting for example, making more things player run)

*shrug*

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

3/17/10 12:14:06 AM#52

I haven't read the discussion up to now, so I'm only replying to the article's point on - how do you make it feel more heroic?

~and my answer is simple; humble roots.

The janitor on the death star is a *perfect* example. If you were a stormtrooper, who is kicking ass from the start, then you are less likely to feel like you earn a place at the top. If you were mopping floors long before you were mopping up people, then you are part-superhero for having broken from menial roots. It's the "Clark Kent theory", were you are a nobody amongst the crowd, but moonlight as the man of steel. Going back and forth from these lifestyle changes the character goes through serves as a better reminder of the journey's effect on hardening him.

I always bring up Silent Hill in these situations - because I've said for years that the main character should suck at combat... initially. At some point the character will get better at what he does, and start chainsawing mannequin legs with gusto (and perhaps a more joyous expression as he does it). This is to emphasize the idea of how the experience changes a person, wrapped up in a natural progression where you start kicking more ass, and then face harder/more monsters to match the new capability. Silent Hill always has some janitor who ends up beating the forces of darkness through kickassery... just wonkily controlled kickassery. Monsters are pretty uncoordinated.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Nethermancer

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 530

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different"

3/17/10 12:24:27 AM#53

I think feeling heroic in games is overrated and the absolute wrong thing for an MMO to try and simulate. To me a good MMO is about options and versatility......classes are the worst thing to come to MMO's IMO.

options - allowing someone to become a king, a janitor, a spy, a knight, a jester, etc. and interact with people after making there choices is what is great about an MMO.

Versatility - If someone wants to become a janitor/spy then let them in your game! why the heck not.

In EVE i am a miner/covert ops/business man and i love every minute of it.

Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.

  Troneas

Old School

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 910

SWG Refugee
Fringe Deserter

3/17/10 2:15:07 AM#54

 "However, if I’m playing in the Star Wars universe, I want to be piloting the Death Star, not cleaning out its restrooms. For players wanting to feel like heroes, SWG at launch was hard going."

 

well you are what we used to call the NGE target market.

 

you are not alone, but you are also not the only segment of players there is.

 

thank you for sharing your preference.

 

...and i wonder how heroic the nge jedi feel now, with all 10 of them left running around with the same epic, heroic powers and class.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

3/17/10 4:41:18 AM#55
Originally posted by NovaKayne

I think SWG in its early days proved that some do ENJOY being the janitor on the Death Star.

 

I hate to bring up such a sore subject but, the game core was not the issue.  It was bugs on powers not acting the way they were supposed to and content that was bugged or missing.

 

There was a large contingent of players who enjoyed the open ended aspect of the game and are longing for something more like it.  It showed one major thing that most developers are overlooking.  Along with there being the HERO aspect of the game and EPIC battles.  Players want to be able to Socialize and display trinkets and trophy's that are unique or hard won / hard to find.

 

The greatest thing the game offered was support classes that DID NOT NEED TO COMBAT.  In this aspect of the game it created a unique crafter / support  community that has never been done before and probably never done again. 

 

To create the WoW killer you need to create a game with the support and crafting and non-combat aspects of SWG PRE-CU and the accessability and polish of WoW.  If some developer is actually able to pull this off it will be the end all be all MMO that will maintain a huge subscriber base for a really long long time.

 

What is an end game?  RAIDS?  artrificially motivated combat?  Badges or Trinkets? 

 

My bet, having a comunity that can build / sponsor events like pod / horse / mount races.  PvP arenas held by guilds or individuals.  Various other player ran / created concepts that may/may not give XP but, do give some alternate form of actually BEING in the alternate universe that was created instead of just along for the ride.

 

I was going to wade in with this very idea, but NovaKayne seems to have already given you an excellent intellectual ass whoopin.

I will add this though. Please explain why when you could only have one character per server and playing a crafter meant you were nearly useless combat wise, over half of my SWG guild (ACRID) were crafters. Actually I know the answer. Crafting in SWG was an intricate and enjoyable process, which best of all was a needed part of the game. Player crafted gear was the best gear. Crafters were both respected and useful. People are more than happy to be janitor on the Death Star if it is a rewarding and meaningful job. SWG making crafting a sought after and worthwhile profession is one of the few things they did right.

Now I do agree with you that MMOs and RPGs in general need to stop with the exterminate (obscenely powerful) minor vermin to level garbage. That has been a nauseating  staple of fantasy video games I have hated since the arcade game Rastan.

What would be the problem with letting your little hero guy destroy two or three goblin mobs at a swing at level one? Just make sure the loot tables are not ridiculous and you could stop the freaking boredom, and make the player feel like he is accomplishing something worthwhile instead of being nothing more than the Medieval Orkan Man. I have to ask did these game makers never play games such as the original Doom or Diablo series? The biggest kick you got out of those games was cutting great swaths through hordes of enemies. They didn't send you to go kill five ants and pray you didn't get your ass handed to you.

 

 

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  Xondar123

Gumshoe

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 2601

3/17/10 5:19:18 AM#56
Originally posted by Coredin
Originally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by neonaka

What amazes me out of all this, is the sheer amount of replies with this statement:

 

"I want to escape reality for a short period of time."

 

Anyone who watches TV is escaping reality. Anyone who watches a movie is escaping reality. Anyone who reads a book is escaping reality. Anyone who plays a boardgame is escaping reality.

Do the people who do all these things think they have miserable and "shitty" lives? Of course not! But guess what? There is a reason entertainment is called "escapism," and some of the greatest works of art in human history have been produced as escapism.

It would seem then that human beings naturally need to escape from their reality once in a while. It is a vital psychological mechanism that prevents us from going insane. All the way from Homer's The Illiad to William Shakespeare to Tolkien to the MMORPG, human beings need escapism in some way.

Denouncing that and then further denouncing someone's chosen form of escapism is just sad and very pathetic. I don't go around telling people they are morons for investing themselves emotionally in movies or TV shows, I wouldn't think them very polite if they said tthe same about me and MMOs.

 

Maybe it's just a play on semantics, but wouldn't escaping reality mean you have something to run away from in life, that it's bothering you in some big or small way?

I play games cause I want to have fun, and entertain myself for a little bit. Not because i'm trying to escape something or get away from the horrors of real life. Maybe at that point someone has a bigger problem with real life than they do with a game. When you need a game to be purely for escaping reality, that's entering the realm of getting drunk or eating super fatty ice cream to escape something which aren't exactly good activities.

I do however understand that MMOs are something to do that you cannot do in real life, and maybe in that way they are an escape, like how a vacation is an escape. But from what I read, i believe the person you quoted from was complaining about the earlier people who escape reality with games cause their life sucks, and they dont want one bit of challenge in their game cause their like sucks and is challenging enough as it is. And I have to agree, if your life is so bad that a little bit of challenge in an online multiplayer game upsets you, you should either fix your life or play a social game.

 

I don't think wanting to engage in escapism means that someone is necessarily fleeing from something in their life. Human being seem to be built to need fantasies and escapism as a natural part of our psyches. After all, who doesn't daydream or imagine or have dreams for their lives? These can be said to be a form of escapism too.

What you "have fun" or entertain yourself by playing a game, how do you do so? Don't you use the game as a portal into a world you could never inhabit? Don't tell me you play a video game where you get up, take a shower, brush your teeth, go to your job (or school,) do your work for eight hours and then go home. Because unless you do play a game that exactly mirrors your own reality and you find it fun and entertaining, then you are engaging in some sort of escapism.

Likewise, someone who watches Hamlet is imagining a medieval Danish prince seeking revenge for the death of his father and anyone who reads the Illiad is inhabiting a world where the Achaeans have set up a ten-year siege of Troy. People engage in these works for entertainment and because they find them fun, but there is no way to argue that they aren't some form of escapism.

My point was that all entertainment allows people to escape reality in some form. That's why it is called "escapism." Merriam-Webster defines "escapism" as: "habitual diversion of the mind to purely imaginative activity or entertainment as an escape from reality or routine." www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/escapism

xondar10 Xfire Miniprofile
  Ghostflame

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/07
Posts: 29

3/17/10 5:31:13 AM#57

My first thought when I was about to start playing my first MMORPG was "Wow, I get to play a person living in the Star Wars universe!". It was not "Oh, I'm gonna be a hero and kill Darth Vader."

A MMORPG with thousands of "heroes" running around just seems silly to me. Even in City of Villains I play pretty low key villains...

 

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

3/17/10 7:06:10 AM#58

IMVPO this is one of the core issues of MMOs. I come more from a single player and pen & paper background, and THIS was my reason Number ONE back in the days of UO not to play MMOs. Why would I be a tailor or any other average grinder = normal working person in a MMO when I am ALREADY A NOBODY IN REAL LIFE? WHY? Thats why I never ever ever craft. Its like work! I mean, who wants to work AGAIN just after coming from work? What I want to be is the hero of those fantasy books and sci fi movies I loved! Not some mundane nobody I am for free in RL already! Thats why for the bigger part I stick with my single player games or PNP.

But I love the social aspect of MMOs. Like in the days of SWG, or also to a degree in EQ2. When the MMO does make me feel heroic, its good and I love to share that with online friends. Insofar the article is great and highlights the valid points.

 

There are four areas, all mentioned to make a player feel heroic.

A) Heroic encounters: like the giant in the early WAR human area, the way all is set up really makes one feel heroic indeed.

B) Early confrontation with the main villains via storytelling: As the encounter with the Nazgul in LOTRO. It really gives the player the sense to be part of something BIG.

C) Mass Combat: I have said that time and again, the Dynasty Warriors games are a great example to make you feel heroic right away. You dont hack 10 minutes on some GD boar or badger, you slice 100 to the left and 200 to the right! If Tera does that, is sounds all good. Or Champions. You dont hack 5 minutes on some street thug, you pulverize them in groups and fast, and I am VERY glad to hear the SWTOR combat is also fast paced. Personally I am so tired of this EQ-way of taking a group of 5 "heroes" and then hack 10 minutes on some godsforsaken badger or somesuch and then move on to the next! It's so ridiculous.

D) Personalized Story-Telling: as we prolly going to see in SWTOR and in Tortage of AoC. YOU matter. You and your doings.

 

Generally I want my MMOs to see more of all these. But going back to EQ hardships like death penalities asf... no way. Going back is never the answer.

 

EDIT: Even if you say, thats all fine for you, Elikal, but I dont want to be a hero. Well, thats because you define hero too narrow. You see a hero as dragon slaying Paladin or somesuch. No, a hero is in a MMO someone who has am impact. Or FEEL LIKE he had an impact. And who would not want to feel his action had meaning and mattered? Who wants to be the Janitor of the Death Star? Nobody! But even if you are just some background person, you want to see you did something and it had an impact. You dont want to kill 200 mobs X and then they are all respawned and nothing matters. This just causes frustration. Maybe you just want to make sure the Shire in Tolkien's world has a celebration it won't forget and YOUR work ensures that. Thats heroic also, because YOU matter. Your get this feeling something changed. Like when you play LOTRO in those book quests. Sure, everyone else does them too, but the way they are staged makes you feel like your personal doings greatly contributed to some change, some impact and you are NOT just send like some nameless errand boy or girl.

And sorry to say, but all those who chime and say "I don't want to be hero and OP is a jerk" haven't even BEGUN to think about the matter a minute! Of course you want to be hero, but its your imagination of the word that is too limited. Maybe you dont want to be a Paladin slaying dragons and getting a festival at the king's table, but you too want to matter, you too want impact and want to get the feeling to be meaningful and not be a number 87687 pie carrier to Granny Doe.

And yes, all this is just a diplomatic way of saying: 90% of people posting here quickly flaming down the OP are dumb. Most people alas dont know what they want. If being an average joe was so perfect to you all, then you would not critizise MMOs so much, because THATS WHAT YOU ARE IN THEN: a nobody that is a mere Fedex guy. But as I said, most humans are too dumb to really know what they want and what is good for them. Rude? Sorry, I just got 40 and I get tired to pretend to be nice. My time just runs out for these pretend games. =P

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  NovaKayne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 748

That is just my opion and we all know what THAT is good for!

3/17/10 8:58:50 AM#59
Originally posted by Troneas

 "However, if I’m playing in the Star Wars universe, I want to be piloting the Death Star, not cleaning out its restrooms. For players wanting to feel like heroes, SWG at launch was hard going."

 

well you are what we used to call the NGE target market.

 

you are not alone, but you are also not the only segment of players there is.

 

thank you for sharing your preference.

 

...and i wonder how heroic the nge jedi feel now, with all 10 of them left running around with the same epic, heroic powers and class.


 

QFT!

 

+1 lvl for summing up the whole point of everyone's remarks in 4 lines!!

 

 

@Elikal

Seriously, there are those who like to sit and craft and could make the epic gear you need to go and do what you want.  No one is saying that games should not include the type of play you are wanting.  However, have you not noticed that since most of the latest MMO's released do not have some intricate crafting or crafting dependancy?  Have you noticed that fewer people are sitting around for you to be able to show off to?

 

Do not get me wrong.  I HATE crafting myself and do not understand the appeal.  However, I respect those that like it and have the patience for it because they made the best gear.  Some were legendary in notoriety for thier gear in SWG.  Someone would aks me where I got that gun and I could tell them Snotson on Tattooine ( not a real person ).  He makes really good weapons.  Armor guy nearby is prety good but, the one on Naboo is better. 

 

How is THAT for EPIC or HEROIC?  This guy was KNOWN for what he could do.  How many people did you know by name could take on a Boss MOB by themselves?  Even an EPIC one?

Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.

  Bob_Blawblaw

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 1314

3/17/10 11:35:18 AM#60
Originally posted by NovaKayne
Originally posted by Troneas 

QFT!

 

+1 lvl for summing up the whole point of everyone's remarks in 4 lines!!


 

Agreed, but one small correction...

 +100 points Forum XP added to the  Forum Reasoning  skill tree...

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