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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » No Jump? Why??

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200 posts found
  User Deleted
3/07/10 6:54:50 AM#181

does jump matter that much? i mean if ff14 does not have jump would u not buy it? yeah don't get me wrong, i love pushing jump as much as anyone else does but sometimes it's ok the gameplay, content and your personal feelings about the game matter (which includes the jump button)

  User Deleted
3/07/10 7:07:17 AM#182
Originally posted by Khrymson
Originally posted by Khrymson
Originally posted by Zarkanar

Lol Square can't even make decent physics, how sad. Seriously, this game is fail and is just going to be a new paint job on a very, very old and outdated game. This genre needs to evolve, Square Enix is totally not going to be the one to do it.

 

Heh, just found this thread, and this comment is just so funny!  I mean really you think that SE is not evolving...its all other MMOs that are de-evolving from anything substantial and depth-worthy that FFXI, EQ, DAoC, and UO started.

 

Take just the aggro system in FFXI for one, there are Sight, Sound, Smell, Magic, Low HP, and True versions of sight and sound where certain mobs can see through the spell or potion.  And with FFXIV, there are new ones being added yet to be revealed, plus the possibility of a food-chain system with the mobs too.

 

Then; lets take a look at every other MMO out there and what do they have!?  Only "proximity"...oh wow I mean come on that is so amazing right...really cutting edge that you just have to be within a certain range of the mob, even when their backs are turned too, they have eyes on their back....thats just ~ thats just...oh WOW...

 

 


Or the Home of the Hero in Windurst, which is always locked, but if ya do enough snooping around you'll run into the Star-Onion Brigade and become an SOB too, which has the funniest story and cut-scenes ever.  That story eventually brings you to that location and you get to go inside the building...etc

Heheh... "Know One's Onions". Love that quest line and cut-scene in particular. I'm stuck on the drop from the Sabotender later on... ><. Damn spiny pickles won't give the thing up.

Ah well.. just wanted to chime in on that :-p

Really though and above all else, if jumping is that much of a game breaker to anyone out there, and you won't be playing FFXIV because of it, then good-riddance too ya, I for one love being able to really be immersed in an MMO, and being able to actually go everywhere fulfills that feeling far better than knowing if I can jump over that fence or have to walk around it...sheesh!

Not sure I'd say "good riddance" - that's a bit unnecessarily harsh. If people are going to react and rant about it as though it's some great personal injustice performed by SE specifically to punish *them*... then yeah... that's another story. I suppose every "victim card" comes with a complementary soap box.

 

  Usinger

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/07
Posts: 24

3/07/10 7:27:13 AM#183

Without bothering to read all the nuanced arguments for and against, I'll blindly add my two cents.

I too have always used jumping as lithmus test for games.  While I won't write off a game that doesn't have jumping, I come close.  To me a game world filled with ramps is hard to get into.  Don't get me wrong: I don't doubt some people actually prefer it.  Just not me.

Thank you for your time and attention.

  User Deleted
3/07/10 7:32:55 AM#184
Originally posted by ProfRed

Yes because we all go around jumping all over the place.  Give me a break.  When is the last time you jumped around town and through a store.  Jumping in the hands of 12 year olds ruins immersion.  Let's go through a dungeon and watch as the rogue hops around non stop, etc.  It's lame and I don't know why it was added to games the way it has been.

 

My personal favorite is when you're standing in town, completely idle... talking or sorting your inventory or whatever... and some heavily armored guy (you'd think all that hardware would be weighty) comes up and starts circle-strafe-bunny-hopping around you... for no reason. Eventually they get bored - I guess because I'm not frolicking with them - and run off to do it to someone else.

It doesn't even have to be kids doing it, though.

My sister is 44 years old. We're very close and I love her to death. She drives me fucking batty when I play a MMO with jumping with her. She hops around, on everything, everywhere, non-stop, for no reason. It used to drive me nuts and I'd try to stay enough ahead of her to at least not have to *see* it. We'd be doing some instance (this was in WoW) and she'd be jumping up the stairs.. jumping off the stairs... jumping up and down in place... just non-stop antics... It would eventually get on the party leader's nerves who would ask her to stop.

I think she does it just because "it's there". Because when she's played FFXI or tried Lineage 2 or other games with no jumping.. she's never missed it. I think many others may fall into that category as well.

And I've grouped with many other adults who jump simply because it's there.

It's "fun" for them... sure. It's immersion breaking and distracting for others. And they don't *have* to jump all the time.

I find it a bit humorous how some in this thread are using all these important sounding terms, like "mobility" and "player freedom" and "realism" and all this to try and make the argument sound more "legitimate". Just say it as it is... You want a jump button because you enjoy jumping.

Assigning all these meaningful-sounding terms to it is silly and pointless. It's already been proven in other MMOs - and games in general - without jumping that there are other tactics and other means of immersion possible without jumping being involved. You simply want a jump button. You wouldn't play a game without jumping? Okay. That's your prerogative. Many others would and be fine with it. Yet many others would like a jump button but will still play because they enjoy the rest of the game enough to "suffer through it". To some it wouldn't matter either way.

The "more tactical in battle" bit rather amuses me. Some people like to run in circles around mobs in FFXI... I don't know why they do it many times. It makes no difference.. the mob is still going to hit you. In some cases it's important that the tank keep the mob turned around so the other players on the backside can do more damage, or avoid some specific attack (the Minotaur fight in FFXI's Chains of Promathia missions comes to mind). But that's one example... and no jumping is required. There's numerous types of strategy and "tactics" required in FFXI.. none require jumping.

The point I'm making is... if you want jumping in a game, great. Many others share that opinion. If no jump button is going to be a deal breaker for you - no matter how good the rest of the game is (which some here have said) - then... well that's your prerogative.

Personally.. I'm somewhere between "don't care either way" and "would rather not have it". I'd like to see a jumping system described as I've stated in a previous post.. Every time you jump, you burn endurance, each consecutive jump burns more endurance than the one before it (since you're tiring yourself out and it takes more energy to jump each time - just like in real life). After maybe 4 consecutive jumps, you've all but burned out of your endurance and do not have enough left to jump again. Like HP or MP, endurance would take time to regen, though it can be helped along with temporary buffs or foods, etc.

This would make it more realistic... and could be used in a variety of ways as another form of "resource management" in situations where you have to, say, jump with some degree of frequency to get out of  a bad situation... but have to time your jumps right... wasting a jump might screw you over down the path a bit because you need to get over that last chasm to escape to safety but... whoops... you're out of endurance.

Also, jumping around too close to aggro would attract attention... because unless the aggro is blind and deaf.... they're going to see/hear you. This could also be implemented tactically... having to time your jumps by waiting for certain enemies to turn around, so they don't see you and you can get by safely.

Now *that* I could live with and would likely enjoy (if done well). Pro-jump players get their "tactical jumping" and others don't have to deal with Peter Cottontail frolicking around constantly. Win/Win.



 

  User Deleted
3/07/10 7:57:37 AM#185
Originally posted by Darkness690
Originally posted by Albytaps

There is no jumping because there is no need for it.

 

Running isn't needed when you can just walk everywhere, but I'm sure that's included in the game.

 

I see where you're going with that... but even in that context... if there were no running... you still wouldn't need jumping if the game's design didn't warrant it :)

  Hyanmen

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 4957

3/07/10 9:00:47 AM#186
Originally posted by Arezon

  Not adding jump is just the DEVs being lazy.

 

There's no such a thing as "being lazy" when it comes to making an MMO or just about any game in general. You're lazy, you're kicked out of the company. As simple as that. Now you might mean that the director and the main staff are too lazy to go tell the programmers or artists "make an X feature"? Makes no sense, but okay.

FF:ARR FATE grinding: People not having fun by doing something not actually intended to get to a point that doesn't really matter as fast as possible. Just so they can do the same thing over and over again to gain a piece of virtual loot.

  ryan1285

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 20

3/07/10 10:34:16 AM#187
Originally posted by PezDSpencer
Originally posted by fanita

 

You can easily just make mobs reset and when you are unable to be hit by them. To be honest I don't think there's a completely justifiable reason for not including the z-axis in modern games with development technology where it's at.

 

Z-axis extends forward into space.  Y-axis is up and down. Learn2graph.

 

Totally disagree an axis is whatever you designate it as.

  sweetwheat

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 21

3/07/10 10:43:27 AM#188

I do not mind that is going to be no jumping. I rarely use it anyways on any of the games I have played. For me, I think jumping takes away from the realistic aspect of the game. No one can jump constantly and all the time and I have never really seen too many people be able to jump up on a rock in a single leap. Having said that though I believe in some areas that could create an action to jump if it is necessary to get somewhere and that is the path of need or even a hidden path. However, constant ability jumping is not a must for me and I am glad that it is not in there because all the jumping in my opinion is a waste of time. That is just me though.

  jgonz120

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 11

3/07/10 12:44:37 PM#189

 I love how OP only responded to stuff i said... what a troll.... 

 

Anyways

I totally agree that jumping can be unrealistic since all the characters would have to jump at the same height wouldn't they? since it would give an unfair advantage to the tall characters over the small characters. I'd have a hard time imagining that a lalafel(taru) could just as high as a elezen(elvaan), it would just be ridiculous. sorry I can't spell the new names yet :x

  grafh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/05
Posts: 309

3/07/10 12:49:52 PM#190

why put something in the game that isnt needed. jump is something that would just annoy me if they put it into ffxiv.

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

3/07/10 12:54:08 PM#191

I dont know.  I hadnt played the other FF games, but had been distracted by other mmo's,and will give this one a try.  I think im going to initially feel 'slightly restricted' with character movement freedom if I cant jump, but can see myself being able to easily get over it.

Am I going to be able to sit to rest for greater pace of health restoration by resting?

  penguinmane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/04
Posts: 73

3/07/10 1:00:23 PM#192

my 2 cents:

I wish there was jumping.

I will play FFXIX regardless

for the simple reason

KickBall (taru) will be my char of choice

I will miss not jumping as KickBall but i'll still run around and dance about :p

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1842

3/07/10 1:20:59 PM#193

While I do not think jumping is a must have feature in a game I personally prefer the ability to do so.

I played GW when it was released and one thing that got on my nerves was after I was finished killing the big badass mob I could not jump or even walk up the small incline that for whatever reason was put there as an obstacle.

For me the ability to jump is not a must have and I wont dismiss a game if it does not have it. But to me it just feels like my character is missing something, especially when the small bush, rock, or inclined terrain stops my supposed Hero.

I can kill dragons but damn that 2 foot high rock or fence is just too much for me.

  User Deleted
3/07/10 3:58:54 PM#194
Originally posted by ryan1285
Originally posted by PezDSpencer
Originally posted by fanita

 

You can easily just make mobs reset and when you are unable to be hit by them. To be honest I don't think there's a completely justifiable reason for not including the z-axis in modern games with development technology where it's at.

 

Z-axis extends forward into space.  Y-axis is up and down. Learn2graph.

 

Totally disagree an axis is whatever you designate it as.

 

Ummm.. No.

In 3D graphics/animation/games... There are X, Y and Z axis. They're looked at one of two ways...

1. X being horizontal, Y being vertical and Z being "into" the scene; so-called Y-up.
2. X being horizontal, Y being "into the scene" and Z being up or down.; so-called Z-up.

That's the only two ways you will see XYZ axis portrayed.





 

  Squirlmaster

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 57

"Billionaire"

3/07/10 4:21:23 PM#195
Originally posted by jdnewell

While I do not think jumping is a must have feature in a game I personally prefer the ability to do so.

I played GW when it was released and one thing that got on my nerves was after I was finished killing the big badass mob I could not jump or even walk up the small incline that for whatever reason was put there as an obstacle.

For me the ability to jump is not a must have and I wont dismiss a game if it does not have it. But to me it just feels like my character is missing something, especially when the small bush, rock, or inclined terrain stops my supposed Hero.

I can kill dragons but damn that 2 foot high rock or fence is just too much for me.

 

A lot of times those little jumps were built into the area so you couldn't go there. The point of not jumping was to be able to prevent players from doing stuff the developers didn't want them to, like taking a shortcut to get somewhere really quick; the point of the game was the epic journey. Having to go around a random 2ft rock probably added to my experience, and made me have to fight my way to my destination.  Look at WoW, jumping allowed me to glitch to so many places, FFXI really made their design so the player had to follow a specific route. Sure it takes from what little realism was to be had, but it beats looking at huge walls and obstacles arbitrarily placed on the landscapes.

currently playing: FFXI
Waiting for FFXIV to be updated more.

  jf1ve

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 18

3/07/10 9:11:07 PM#196

There is no need for jump in a game designed GROUND UP to not necessitate such a maneuver. Simply put, this will not play like a platformer, WOW, or any other game.... other than a final fantasy game. I understand that jumping can make for a very enjoyable exploration, however they need to make everything explorable to everyone, not just to those with the skills to jump accurately.

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

3/09/10 8:57:02 AM#197

 


Originally posted by Ballista


 it feels like having anvils tied to our ankle.

 

 



 
You know that's a really good description of the feeling I get when I play non-jump games. Which for me, does take away a lot of enjoyment and freedom.  


 
I agree, it's like obliging players to walk instead of running or swimming on the surface of the water instead of being able to dive.
 
None is mandatory but the lack of any of them removes the feeling of freeness and so immersion. I understand some players don't get it. That being said I know I won't ever be playing that MMO nor any that does not have jumping, even for free.
 
Although I'm not for kangaroo combat type, with players jumping all around. Jumping should eat stamina or so. You can use it but you should not overuse it.

 

 

 

 


Originally posted by Squirlmaster
 
The point of not jumping was to be able to prevent players from doing stuff the developers didn't want them to, like taking a shortcut to get somewhere really quick


So what?

 

In my book = cheap development and "lazy" devs/designers.

You can implement jumping and even flying and prevent players to use unwanted shortcuts. There are games that do that, efficiently, and I'm not talking about virtual walls there.

Because you might not be able to imagine ways to do so does not mean it can't be done, it can't be fun and it can't be logic/realistic.

  Ekibiogami

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 3024

Grammatically Retarded.

3/09/10 3:20:13 PM#198

All I gata say is thank god for No jumping.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
—Samuel Adams

  Ashanor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 71

3/09/10 9:30:08 PM#199

Well, I was thinking about checking this game out and hoping it wasn't garbage like FF XI was, but I really hate games that don't allow you to jump. It just feels so restrictive and confined. I guess I will just stick to All Points Bulletin while waiting for TOR.

  Erhun

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/07
Posts: 171

3/10/10 3:18:40 AM#200

I'm sorry I stopped reading at page 15. I'm making another thread though, I hope to see you all there.

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