I´m playing that game since Nov 05 - unsubbed several times, but never let the subscribtion running out. This game is like a drug - hating it or loving it, but its very hard to be without it.

But there was some changes made in game, which often brought me to finally unsub to that game:

Usually i am playing tanking in that game, which was great fun before some patches ago. With the implemention of the "TOEs" and the "brigade-rotations" there is one great aspect of the game gone:

Manual resupply (and the chance to cut supply) is almost gone in the game now. As a tanker, there is not much left in game than rushing to a hostile town and trying to camp the enemies spawnpoints. (Pretty lame!) It was lots of fun before when going with a tank close to a back-road and wait for inbound hostile vehicles which was trying to support an attacked town. - Small battles started up that way in "the middle of nowhere", when a tankers "skill and SA" was decisive for having success or not.

While those tank vs. tank - battles didn´t affected much the inf-players game, because of the locations far away from towns was possible, it also was a good thing to go "hunting" with one or two squad-comrades - even when they was new to the game - and it was a good oportunity to increase tactical warfare at the tanking game. Instead of having this in game now, there is not much left of the former "tanking-fun".

Sad but true, the range, where other vehicles are becoming visible was decreased from > 3k+ down to 2.65 k. A pretty stupid "implementation" to the game - just imagine you are driving a tank to an elevated spot anc scan the terrain - no visual contacts seen - then you go for another 50 or 100 meters further and wenting "boom", because a hostile veh or gun was sitting just outside of the visual range limit. This "issue" is creating a lot frustration and is taking away the chance of getting good SA by using the terrain (hills etc.) and in addition is just bringing a kind of "shoebox-feeling" into the game. Whats the worth of having a visual distance at a terrain several miles (up to 7k !! ), but the potential foe is virtually hidden and therefore not only invulnerable but due to the stealth-mode, all chance of flanking the enemy is gone.

The "game mechanics" took away lot of the fun and just left some great rememberance of "better days in the past", while the "bitter taste" still remains (when sitting near a spawnpoint and getting blown up by hostile inf). It goes that far, that as a tanker you have to run away from a single enemy-inf for several kilometers (just hope, that you don´t have to climb a hill with a tank, because inf can sprint faster uphill than some tanks will do)

Another "Issue" which i really dislike is the "censorship" of the forums there. Almost everything which is "critisising" the game (or the planned changes) will be deleted or moved to a "hidden" part of those forums.

Oh, and finally - recently no new units are included - just some "tweaks" of old units. The last new equipment was for Inf-game and flyboys (but also years ago) - the last new tank coming into the game was 2006.

I think, it wasn´t the players fault, when the developer team decreased their amount of staff, even when there wa by far more players in the game - but not bringing in new equipment (such as SPAA, SPA, new tanks, scout cars, ships and more) for years will anoy long term players more than newcomers (naturally) - but newcomers who will stay in game soon start to ask for new equipment too.

Next thing, which i dislike in game is the ability (or the lack of) to fix bugs in game - how long does the StuG-engine bug is in game now (must be 4 years at least) - sometimes it makes me think, that CRS (or at least some of the guys there) are biased (hehe, thats a totally NO NO NO in their forum to post), because that bug is still remaining in game - instead of fixing it, they enjoy more to "repaint" the french Char 1bis and leave the "crappy" sights of the most two useless guns in game (Pak 36 and Flak30) as they are. I am asking myself why (because you will not get any answer from the developers there - other than a TOS warning or banning).

So, besides a step learning curve while playing the game, players will also get a lesson in history too (one side has to face with - in some way nerfed - ´42 equipment an enemy who have in at least double numbers equipment from ´44; well, for "balance reasons").  With all their implemented "restrictions" they are on the best way to "restrict" players out of "Their" game.

If you imagine the Y-scale as your knowledge of the game, and the X-scale as time.

Then a steep learning curve would indicate that you learn the game really really fast - what you probably meant was that it has a shallow learning curve, and that it will take you time to learn the game.

Well this is not BF Heroes - this is an all out warfare simulator (well as close as it gets) and no pixel damage - so that is to be expected

Originally posted by Szyporyn

If you imagine the Y-scale as your knowledge of the game, and the X-scale as time.

Then a steep learning curve would indicate that you learn the game really really fast - what you probably meant was that it has a shallow learning curve, and that it will take you time to learn the game.

Well this is not BF Heroes - this is an all out warfare simulator (well as close as it gets) and no pixel damage - so that is to be expected

Before they reduced the max rendering distance, you could see pretty good a target out to 3.4k - now they just plopping in - very realistic

Aren't the standalones showing view distances of 200 meters?

The best ingame for me was organized gameplay  i.e. tank columns, air raids and so on...thats what i did miss a lot and thats the reason i dont subscribe anymore.

I did start playing Arma2 in the last weeks and the game offers 5k+ visible range with fantastic graphics - the viewable distance is amazing, up to 120 player online on one server or even 300+ units if the server offers warfare cti with AI units.....Iam waiting for the 31st normandy mod, a ww2 modification where you dont have the fire and forget weapons (this is btw a former ww2online squad doing this mod). They are working on it to implement the mod for arma2.

www.armaholic.com/forums.php

forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php

www.armaholic.com/forums.php

videos to watch:

www.youtube.com/profile

 (most screenshots from these links are arma 1 wheras arma2 graphic looks a lot better, map in the work is 153x153km²)

The modern weapon systems is maybe only one thing i dislike in Arma since they disable targets too easy and there is no real damage modell like in BE which i miss a lot. Maybe i will start another BE trial in some weeks after  1.31 got released and patched, Battleground Europe has some kind of exciting gameplay which you dont find in any other game....arma 2 with the hopefully soon released ww2 mod will be probably the most similar game expirience but will of course not the same, its just the only alternative i know and I hope it will be released "soon". But I just wonder why it takes so long for a handfull units in BE.

Spiz,

I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.

---

Originally posted by BEMotormouth
Spiz,
I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.

---

I count about 40 in there, and that stuff is rare. Organizing anything in this game is a waste of time and no one does it. And when you do do it the game is so unbalanced you got a guy waiting for you near a table about to respawn every 10 seconds to kill you after your 1 hour flight. Its ridiculous, it doesnt work, its broke. Theres many reasons why people dont organize in thsi game but the devs are just incapable of understanding as evidence by their failed attempts at fixing it.

So instead you gotta put on lame events no one wants to bother with because they have nothing to do with the live PVP game thats going on. Why do you have these fake re-enactment events? Isnt that kind of admiting your PVP game sucks and doesnt work on its own where you need special events to experience organization and teamwork? Isnt that what spiz is saying? That there is none? And there isnt.

Originally posted by BEMotormouth

Spiz,

I just read a thread in the forums this morning about a massive para-drop (100+) organized by players just last night. There are some awesome screenshots of it.

We're also working on a list of in-game organized events that can be run on the live server fairly easily. Things like the Commander of Chief of one side or another being shot down in enemy territory, or an envoy trying to get into a hotly contested town to deliver HQ comms and putting a bounty on their heads. A bunch of ideas floating around that I'm hoping we'll see in the live game very soon.

Hehe, nowadays Rats have to organize "events" - before the implementation of TOEs players could do a huge overstock and "spread" the information about the day X via HCs among the playerbase - that was far more interesting than "Events" - because during the "Supply-built-up-phase" there was the "thrill" of possible spies, the possibility of supply-cutters and the hunting down of those supply-cutters - lots of fun for a longer periode of time <> compared to the Events <> and even another goal was hit by the oversupplying thing:

It happened on the main-server. When having "Events", they are mostly on trainings-server. Many players give a damn about Events, when loosing some towns on campaign server meanwhile.

No, i would say, Events are a pretty poor excange for the huge OPs due to overstock on live server before TOEs; but Rats coded almost the whole fun of the game out - for that they have always enough manpower. But for creating new units ???? Since years we just hear lame excuses.

Pauker not true!

CRS have been running event for way longer than that, I know since I participated in those made by LINDIR "way back then" ;)

They are not making these events to make up for lack of live server activity - they do it because they have a great game enviroment that can be used for other stuff as well - now they just found a way to put small "story lines" I would call it into the live server, and that sounds interesting.

And if you feel the live server needs more people, then why spend so much effort bashing it unfairly - potentially preventing others from trying a really great and unique game!

Originally posted by Szyporyn

Pauker not true!

CRS have been running event for way longer than that, I know since I participated in those made by LINDIR "way back then" ;)

They are not making these events to make up for lack of live server activity - they do it because they have a great game enviroment that can be used for other stuff as well - now they just found a way to put small "story lines" I would call it into the live server, and that sounds interesting.

And if you feel the live server needs more people, then why spend so much effort bashing it unfairly - potentially preventing others from trying a really great and unique game!

I know - there was times, when players volunteerly organised "Events". Many more players was online that times.

I also remember, when jammyman become a Rat for organizing the events. So, for shure, the Events are existing way longer in game - but (and thats the difference now - before mostly Trainers "announced and organised" that events on trainings server - nowadays the whole "Event-thing" sounds like its the solution to everything. 

It just makes me real upset, instead of changing the gameplay AND implement new units to the game, the Rats are more focussing on "Events" - just take a look at the main page - how long does the Article about the last Event remained in first place.

And watch the forums, how many players are starting to complain about the marketing/customer treading - behavior of  the developers. Wasn´t that 1.31 "Eyecandy" announced for the fall (last year) and what did we got? Nothing more than a poor offline beta version - without any "X-mas gift" (which always was ment, that some new unit was implemented. 

Instead of changing the gameplay - just watch the posting about the warping units in the BGE-Forums - they (Rats) announced for 2010 the reworking of the HC-System - not to speak from the how long from so many players asked SPAA - and something for the long forgotten navy plus when did we got a new tank - was back in 2006. The supply is alwasy the same - map after map, month after moth and year after year. It is simply not the players fault when the rats reduced their staff long ago and rested too long on their seats.

You also know, how the SD is annoying the players - instead of creating something for helping the underpopulated side (to attract more players to that side) - they simply went the easy way for the developer - and implemented something that frustrates the overpopulated side instead. And now they are wondering why the player-numbers declined? - At least its not the players fault.

So, when taking all this "Issues" into account, i think there are many  (sad but true - way too much) reasons for bashing.

I never said, that it is a game not worth playing - but its very frustrating to see what the developers did with their game in the past - and as the worst part - didn´t even show with one single word, that they know what went wrong.

Oh, a word about server activity - or the lack of it; just show me one single player who really is believing that nowadays are more players online than - lets say 2 or 3 years ago. And before 5 or 6 years ago there was more players than before 2 years. - But rats didn´t have learned from it.

Thats why i think it should be mentioned at a place, where the "Censorship" of the Rat-Mods having no effect. (I´ve tried long enough to post what many players dont like at the game - but many post simply "dissapeared" from the public-eyes due to their Mods.  Well, its way easier to put critism under the carpet - instead of discussing problems with the players.)

Oh - i do not "prevent" potentially other players from playing that game, when just open my mouth and speak freely about my opinion of the game (which is - or better to say - was, a great game - but by holding back what going on in game and dont telling it to potential players seems to me the same as lying to new players) - All the points i´ve mentioned here - btw, you also know, that this is by far not the whole list to complain about - all these points where mentioned in the Rats forum before - but when they dont think its worth to answer to the points - then, i do not have any problem to make it "public to a wider audience".

I hear what you are saying, but I contribute it to the same thing that I know is why so many feel like you - and to some extent me as well.

The whole idea of this game is SUCH a great one, and everyone have a pretty firm idea about how they would like it to be - and have a vision on how that would make it perfect.

I am often to be found complaining my @ss off in the BGE forums - but always for the love of the game (although I think CRS sometimes think I don't like em lol).

One thing that I complain about is a factor that plays in to the first thing you mention.
That the events play so much more of a factor today - and with the example that a story about a event had its place on the website frontpage for a long time.
CRS are not running the best website in the world (to put it mildly - sorry guys!) and the way news and stories are presented are not the best way either, nor are they putting out enough news.
But the thing is, they are a small crew - they focus most of their efforts into what they do best, making a game!
MotorMouth who posted is not only doin her job in taking care of relations with the playerbase, making sure the game gets profilated, send out news and newsletters and so on - she also has to deal with the website as I suspect they have no real "website team" - and until the game gets the credit and playerbase it truly deserve they wont have :(

So the events do not play much more of a factor other than they have become better, and with better stories behind them (in the old days they were simple red on blue scenarios).

Now about all the other ideas you have that they should focus on, well thats your oppinion on the matter - they make their decitions based on what they think is best for the overall playerbase, and since their jobs relies on them making the right one then I just have to accept that my ideas and visions are just that.

Yes I find SD annoying and not really worth it, but I put up with it (apart from using my right to complain in forums lol).

Yes server population seemed higher in the days, even think there were many many more online in 2002-2004 - but I do not have numbers to back that up.

Now for you and me it might seem simple enough to just want something changed, but remember this game is now 9 years old - its an old engine and code, and just changing stuff is not that easy apparently.

But I have read and know they are slowly bit by bit changing the code to make it much easier to make changes on the fly (so to say), and already in the next patch we will see one such change to the capture mechanism.

Instead of having to place each particular capturable table inside such a building and write events for the capture for each (so I understand they had to do it - anyways it was not the best way to go around it) they have now just created a state that they can tie to buildings.

So in 1.31 buildings will be capturable by you simply staying inside them and staying alive, I see this as a really huge change in the gameplay towards a more desirable way of simulating capture

Originally posted by Szyporyn

I hear what you are saying, but I contribute it to the same thing that I know is why so many feel like you - and to some extent me as well.

The whole idea of this game is SUCH a great one, and everyone have a pretty firm idea about how they would like it to be - and have a vision on how that would make it perfect.

I am often to be found complaining my @ss off in the BGE forums - but always for the love of the game (although I think CRS sometimes think I don't like em lol).

One thing that I complain about is a factor that plays in to the first thing you mention.
That the events play so much more of a factor today - and with the example that a story about a event had its place on the website frontpage for a long time.
CRS are not running the best website in the world (to put it mildly - sorry guys!) and the way news and stories are presented are not the best way either, nor are they putting out enough news.
But the thing is, they are a small crew - they focus most of their efforts into what they do best, making a game!
MotorMouth who posted is not only doin her job in taking care of relations with the playerbase, making sure the game gets profilated, send out news and newsletters and so on - she also has to deal with the website as I suspect they have no real "website team" - and until the game gets the credit and playerbase it truly deserve they wont have :(

So the events do not play much more of a factor other than they have become better, and with better stories behind them (in the old days they were simple red on blue scenarios).

Now about all the other ideas you have that they should focus on, well thats your oppinion on the matter - they make their decitions based on what they think is best for the overall playerbase, and since their jobs relies on them making the right one then I just have to accept that my ideas and visions are just that.

Yes I find SD annoying and not really worth it, but I put up with it (apart from using my right to complain in forums lol).

Yes server population seemed higher in the days, even think there were many many more online in 2002-2004 - but I do not have numbers to back that up.

Now for you and me it might seem simple enough to just want something changed, but remember this game is now 9 years old - its an old engine and code, and just changing stuff is not that easy apparently.

But I have read and know they are slowly bit by bit changing the code to make it much easier to make changes on the fly (so to say), and already in the next patch we will see one such change to the capture mechanism.

Instead of having to place each particular capturable table inside such a building and write events for the capture for each (so I understand they had to do it - anyways it was not the best way to go around it) they have now just created a state that they can tie to buildings.

So in 1.31 buildings will be capturable by you simply staying inside them and staying alive, I see this as a really huge change in the gameplay towards a more desirable way of simulating capture

I think, we all can agree firmly, that the Idea of BGE is still unbeaten by other MMORGs - the concept is absolutly top.

But thats the only positive thing what causes that the game is still running.

Shure, its only a small developers crew - but hey, was it the players fault that they decreased the staff members long ago from somewhat 11 or 16 down to sometimes not more than 7 or 8? (thats what i´ve heared from an old player who is now a Rat himself). The players cannot be blamed that the developers numbers are that low - its Rat-HQ-internals. But didn´t CRS wasn´t becoming tired to tell the playerbase, that their release in PRoC will give them enough ressources to increase their crew drastically and the Pb will benefit from it as well. 
 

Well, excuse me, but the only benefit i´ve seen is, that the 1.31 patch takes them more than a year now - and still no online beta available (not that i am horny about that patch - i do not need "eye-candies" - i would prefer much more a change in gameplay - just to have the fun of pre TOEs back in game and long overdue new units. Do you remember, when they implemented the last tank in the game? It was the Sherm 76 back in 2006 - since then, they wasn´t able to bring new vehicles into the game at all.

And from what i´ve noticed about the events - back in the days when Jammyman wasn´t a Rat, there was much more frequently "Events" than today - not that i´m an "Event-freak" (i give a damn about Events, specially when the gameplay on the live server is lacking almost every fun now due to poor system - like TOEs and other crap) Shouldn´t they focus more on the Events and have a poor live-game?

I know, they have very limited ressources - agree (i don´t say that these guys are lazy), but what is most annoying - they are going to waste lots of their ressources into changes what only drives more and more players away from the game. Didn´t they (Rats) realise, that their efforts in "eye-candies" don´t change things like brigade stagging and therefore making manual resuply just obsolete.

Instead of giving each player more the feeling, that he/she can affect the game by his/her efforts in the game, they are going the oposit way and making every single play much more dependable on few HC-players. The negative outcoming is seen currently on allied side. Instead of using "carrots" for bringing back more players to the underpopulated side, they are using the stick and creating more frustration on the overpopulated side - overall its nothing else but a loose / loose situation, because when in the game are less and lesser players, it makes it just always harder for the Rats to balance that. Not, that i say, "eye-candies" shouldn´t be implemented in the game - but hey, the major focuss should be the gameplay. (reffering also to the bad HC-system we have currently; you can see the Playschool-Forum is filled with complainments about all the bad isssues HC and gameplay) - it is not the best customer treading, that Rats just create for them (the customers) that they must think, the developers just give a damn about their customers.

Indeed there are many players left in game who like the TOE and other things - but as in the other thread it is stated, that the majority who disagreed with the way the game went, just left the game and did the only thing which (hopefully) makes the developer think about it (and hopefully overthink their mind) - all these players who left the game just voted with their subscription, because thats the only thing they can do, when the developers are that kind of "stubborn".

Didn´t the Rats always have beaten down any objection to planed changes with the word: "You just play for having fun, but our jobs are depending on the game, so we do what we think is right..." - well, if the customers are not satisfied with the changes - and their objections are mostly going to be deleted from the forums, what else they can do than leaving the game?

This circle is going to be closed, when the developers didn´t change their minds and instead just decreased their staff - now who is going to get blamed for it? I bet, the players cannot be blamed - many of them (me included) have given the developers more "credit" to overcome and bought builders accounts. Not because they are satisfied with the current game, but just for the hope that it will turn into something better as we have now and for not letting this game down. Damn, it was so much fun to play in the "older days" - but instead of using the players given credit wisely, the Rats are going to ruin the game completly.

I also don´t forsee any changes in their mind - just need to look at some feedbacks: the major tenor is, that they simply refuse to go back to old gameplay system (because too much changed, or whatsever the excuses are) and instead they are going to improve what they have (Remark: and let the players just desinformed what they are planning to do or where to go).

So, from a customers point: when i decided to give them some stable "ressources" by buying a builders account - i feel nothing but betrayed, because nothing what i hoped is considered to be implemented (brought back in game) - instead, they are working to code the tiny rest of remaining fun out - very dissapointing i say.

And - another thing: taking all side bias away and making suggestion in playschool for doing some changes - and even asking the Rats directly about that (changes which can made easy by tweaking some timers and copy and paste some properties - should be that great task to do; because i know, Rats like to praise "huge changes" which are made with less efforts) - evemn when asking the directly, they don´t need to give any responce - instead they like to respond to some "jokes" or other very unimportant things - OT section of the PS  is the best example for that - it seems they care more about the swine-flu than for their game. This is not, why myself like many other players have bought long term accounts.

CRS was in bankruptcy for some time long ago and they had to let many people go.  This last cycle included not only 1.31 but the China build which may keep their doors open. All the TOE, Bde movment were designed to produce fights. The HC at one time were trying to win at the expense of fights and CRS listened and the gaming was changed to ensure fights. Newbies, before the implemtation of the mechanics would leave because they fights were small and hard to find. WW2OL cannot survive placating the squads who want to have a couple of squad nights for a few hours. The Rats have to make money, they have to keep newbies. The old days were not that fun, they did not keep newbies and almost drove the Rats out of business.

Originally posted by hardcase

 The old days were not that fun, they did not keep newbies and almost drove the Rats out of business.

So the later days show lots players more, because now its more fun?

I bet when Rats just focuss only on their China-deal and act like they´ve forgotten what have keept them alive, then they can close their servers outside of china.

All that self-celebrating posts from rats, that everything is okay didn´t brought in a single new player - we have less of them than ever before. And in few days, when the subscriptions of my accounts are running out, they even will have some more less.

If any of the rats are going to read the forums here, then they should be aware of this:

Rats - do something for games sake - do it now and do it fast!

I started day one and played for two years.  Since then I kept un subbing and resubbing when things are added/fixed to play a little. 

The game is just boring to play constantly anymore.  I can care less about all the above mentioned.  Even if there isnt "as many" players on as it used to be there still is a battle to be found at any given time, you just gotta look. 

If they would only add more counties to the conflict.  I want new units, new counties to play as, The U.S. a prime example.  Bring in the newer stuff, move on to the later days of the war.  It's been since june 2001, that's 9 years now (will be anyway).  I originally started playing this game because it was "World War II Online" meaning the entire war.  Not 41~42 played over and over again by the same three countries.

If they would add new playable countries to the game with new units, I think more people would play/return.  But that's just me lol.

China controls its own servers, WW2OL China is licensed from CRS and CRS only collects money and gives them our upgrades also.

Originally posted by hardcase

China controls its own servers, WW2OL China is licensed from CRS and CRS only collects money and gives them our upgrades also.

Thats correct, China will have their own Servers and pay for their license. So far I can fully agree. But i cannot agree with that we are benfitting due to upgrades untill this moment. The oposite is true - Rats have pushed out for the chinese servers some patches more than on "our" servers. The chinese game is running somwhere at 1.30.5 or so, while the current version on "western servers" is 1.30.3 - It may have to do something with the chinese governments requests.

Anyway - what count under the line is simple, that since more than a year no patch available for "us".

Okay, i buy also, that its a small crew - compared to other companies. I really have absolutly no intention to lower their efforts which they have done - but still, for a paying customer it counts what is summary. What does we had as summary in game last year? - Right, absolutly nothing. I honestly cannot forsee, that we may have some benefit in case of upgrading the game due to the china deal.

Just thinking logically - all the chinese players are new to the game - we cannot compare their "feelings" and their definitions of "fun" in the game with ours.

Its somewhat the same with new players at the "western servers" too - new players find everything very interesting and cool. Let them play the game for some years, then they will have other expections - like longer term players now too.

I ajm also aware, that after the implemention of TOEs, many players left the game - when the developers would get rid of the TOEs, another part of players will turn their back and leave for good.

What is pretty annoying is:

Rats maybe see, that they went somewhat into the wrong direction and whatever causes them now, they are afraid to go a step back (okay, i also can understand that motivation to a major degree) - but i absolutly cannot follow, why they are making not a tiny single intention to "combine" some kind of the older gameplay (which many found that it made more fun than now) with the newer TOEs. There might be possibilities to do that - (like decreasing the regulair spawnlists somewhat - maybe 50% - and "force" manual resuply for the other 50%, while giving HQs a greater spawnlist and don´t allow them to be moved into a town with a link to an enemy-town.)

In that way, both kind of players could be happy and may find their fun - the "newer shoebox-players" and the others who like manual resuply and suply-cuttings. Rats also could use the (reduced) resuply timer and the percentage of "auto-resuply" for balancing player-numbers - i.e. the underpopulated side would receive 60% of auto resuply into the brigades spawnlists, while the overpopulated side would need to start manual resuply when the spawnlists are at 50 % full.

You see, THERE ARE ways to satisfy more players if rats are willing to do a compromise, but untill yet, they are refusing to make any changes at all untill today. No statement is seen on their forums, that they are willing to find a way for satisfying both kind of players.

The problem simply is for a tanker - as i maybe have stated before - with the brigade rotations, there is no need for driving suply from other (behind) towns to an attacked town, because now it is simply more easy to just move a whole fresh brigade into that town. As a result of it, all the fights are focussing to just that attacked town without any suply-cutting or other small tank vs. tank battles outside of towns. For what should they fight at other places than spots, where spawncamping is possible (and unfortunatly the only goal for tankers in game now)

I have some sympathy for the RATs as so often they gave people what they asked for only to have the whole thing blow up.  Spawnable depots to bypass camping, man did that blow up in everyone's faces.  Not sure if there was a game engine reason why flags had to be beside depots, but man did it increase camping tenfold.  Then MSP, welcome to the swarm of lemmings and every battle being the Alamo.

But the big killer was the death of the squads.  Not a collection of people with the same tag (what a squad was by the time I left) but the close knit group of people who played together nightly and knew everyone by name.  Having those squads and the cities you were responsable for made WWIIOL unique.  Any dead game time would be taken up with just talking to your mates, same with the truck driving. But with depot spawning, MSP, AO's it became a major campfest where the whole pop was needed to drain a town and the squads die in six months. I just saw people leaving in droves. I don't see how you could ever get that type of player back, not without risking losing the instant action crowd (who complain of running 200m to the city) you have now and losing the last of your pop. On the few trials I've played since leaving you'd be lucky for any of the ten tanks that just died to put on comms (or the newish 'god' map) that there's a gun around.

It was also the time when you really used the large map, the cutting off of the truck loads of troops. Now you might use the large map once to just make sure you don't get noticed as you park BEHIND the city and spawn a whole army.  But you really don't even have to do that, 5-10 trucks can just boot past and if one or two get through you have your army spawn.  No point to having defenses out of the city as with enemies spawning all around they'll just cap the points behind you anyway.  So we ending up with a huge map, little shoebox battles.   And every city is the same battle, surround with trucks, spawn, swarm.  The cities on rivers being the exception where you could still get a battle line and some push and shove going.  Or you would if the battle you were waiting weeks for didn't get done overnight when 20 guys were on and it gets low pop capped :P

The release is a bit more than eyecandy. Funny, everyone complained about the lack of graphics and now...this is just eyecandy. Two major rreleases in a year...China, which keeps to doors open and 1.31 which, didnt they say had more than 1k tickets from the first iteration for the beta team?  12 people seem to be doing as much as can be done. From anniouncment to semi open beta in about 6 months, with the China launch going on in the background. Seems reasonable, then again they could have put it on the campaign server and listen to complaints for half a year. They can never satisfy everyone.

All the battle mechanics are designed to concentrate and make fights. I remember attacking resupply, I remember newbies screaming they could not find a big fight, they were running from the FB to the town and dying by a sniper. I remember them leaving in droves. You still want the old ww2ol where squad could have a little kill fest for a few hours a week and the rest of the time the newbes walked toward the exits. Squads still have nights and newbies like not having to hunt forever to find a way to die.