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Jita (General)  » Making a Rogue Ship

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51 posts found
  nikoa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 70

 
OP  2/18/10 3:35:54 PM#21

How do you cross train exactly?


Current Games: EVE, WoW
Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, CoH, CoX, MXO, GW, Silk Road, WAR, AoC, Anarchy Online, UO, DDO

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3215

"A very special kind of stupidity"

2/18/10 3:44:03 PM#22
Originally posted by nikoa

How do you cross train exactly?

 

(1) Buy skillbook

(2) Train it

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3215

"A very special kind of stupidity"

2/18/10 3:47:00 PM#23
Originally posted by nikoa
Originally posted by Malcanis

There are corps who specialise in the type of fighting you're thinking of. No need to fly solo in this kind of ship.

 

Really?   Have any names?

 

Hit the recruitment forum.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 3:31:42 AM#24
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by nikoa

How do you cross train exactly?

 

(1) Buy skillbook

(2) Train it


 

Further to the above, any character in Eve can train any skill, regardless of race or starting attributes, so long as yuo have the pre-quisite skill.

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 4:10:26 AM#25


Originally posted by nikoa
So should I go Amarr then for the Pilgrim?
I realize I can cross train but is that easy?


I wouldn't go with a Pilgrim. The ship ain't really any good, imo.

Regarding cross training, I would not do it unless you can fly at least 1 ship well. There is little point in flying dozen of ships with crap skills, it is better to fly only one but fly it properly.

As for stealthed ships. Ships having an ability to warp around cloaked and potentionaly jump on your back are mostly limited to specific role:

1) Covert Operations(frigate) - it is a scout and prober.
2) Stealth Bomber(frigate) - extremely fragile anti-battleship vessel and AOE damage dealer(only works in 0.0 space)
3) Force Recon(cruiser) - recons are electronic warfare cruisers, force recons are tradng part of their e-war superiority for cloaking ability
4) T3 customizeable cruiser - very expensive modular ship, I am not convinced about their preformance to justify their price

In all cases, you are looking on low DPS boats with DPS/HP as a trade off for stealth.


I would say it is exactly the opposite from what you can see in most MMOs - high DPS with HP traded for stealth. If that is what you had on mind, it does not work the same in EVE.

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

2/19/10 4:31:21 AM#26

OK.. Cloaking..

Any ship that has enough power-grid and CPU is able to fit a 'cloaking device'

The thing about this device is that you cant warp while cloaked, and if you want to move you travel MUCH slower and you cant activate any after burner or anything.

A standard cloaking device has other negative effects to your ship making a cloaking device fairly useless.  Including the fact that after you de-cloak there is a period of time where you cannot target anything (its about 30 seconds I think)

 

Covert Ops Cloaking..

A Covert Ops Cloaking device can only be fitted to ships which alow it, covert ops, Stealth Bomber, Black Ops and Blockade runner (and certain t3 ships)

The CovOps Cloak alows you to warp while cloaked (woohoo)  but there are still some of the negative effects from having a cloak fitted, those negatives are reduced somewhat but are still there.

If your new to eve the Stealth Bomber is probably the only real solution to what you want to do...   However, there are some BIG stumbling blocks for you!

 

- Training time, 

It takes a long time to train for standard cloak, even longer to train for a ship that can fit a cov ops.. and even longer still to train the skills needed just to FIT a cov ops...  and even when you do, your gona wanna train those guns skills and ships skill fairly high also!

This time is probably better spent on other things to over come the next problem..

- Money

Stealth Bombers and Cov Ops devices are expensive!  and they are very fragile!  So in the hands of a novice its likley to get popped very quickly, can you afford to replace it?

Of course, you could possible get help in this area, but even if you did you really would want to have a steady income of large amounts of ISK to warrant being able to run around in one of these ships

- Other stuff

There is just so much other stuff to do and learn thats easier, cheaper and more fun.  I guarantee that by the time you've played Eve long enough to obtain the correct skills then you probably find other stuff you want to do..

 

Cloaking is not what it sounds like,  very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.

 

 

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 5:08:52 AM#27
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by nikoa
So should I go Amarr then for the Pilgrim?
I realize I can cross train but is that easy?

 


I wouldn't go with a Pilgrim. The ship ain't really any good, imo.

 


 

Why not?

The Pilgrim is the only Recon ship that has any teeth curtsey of it's drones, you won't be taking out BSs with it ofc not, but haulers, frigs and all small vessels will be fair game.

 

 

Originally posted by sadeyx

Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.

 

Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.
 

  batolemaeus

Pod Killer

Joined: 9/27/07
Posts: 2040

2/19/10 5:20:09 AM#28


Originally posted by VultureSkull

 
Why not?


The pilgrim has to get within webrange to use its neuts, making it extremely vulnerable. It also lacks dps and is paper thin. The Pilgrim can only use the the second ewar bonus on turret ships, but most of your prey will be flinging missiles at you.

A much better choice for ambushing is the arazu, having more dps, more survivability and ewar that helps for all ships.

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 5:39:02 AM#29


Originally posted by VultureSkull
 
Why not?
The Pilgrim is the only Recon ship that has any teeth curtsey of it's drones, you won't be taking out BSs with it ofc not, but haulers, frigs and all small vessels will be fair game.
 

Most what batolemaeus already said.

In fact, all force recons have about same DPS. What is different for Pilgrim is tank. Other recons rely on speed and range control while pilgrim has to armor tank at close proximity.

That means if something goes wrong, I die while other recons could probably bail out. And what can get wrong with a Pilgrim is quite a lot...

  sadeyx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/06
Posts: 1570

2/19/10 5:46:42 AM#30
Originally posted by VultureSkull 

 Originally posted by sadeyx

Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.

 

Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.
 

 

Sorry I dis-agree.  some of the required skills take months on their own.

Would you really have a new player sat there for 30 days training one skill when he still has Learning skills to do? When he has yet to sit in a Battleship?..  when he hardly even has the ability to afford one, let alone replace it.

Please remember that Stealth Bomber is a PvP vessel!  In order to pvp you need to be self-sufficient.  Being self sufficient is usually the first requirment of any Pvp organisation (they dont want leechers)

His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 5:48:31 AM#31
Originally posted by batolemaeus

 


Originally posted by VultureSkull

 

 
Why not?


 

The pilgrim has to get within webrange to use its neuts, making it extremely vulnerable. It also lacks dps and is paper thin. The Pilgrim can only use the the second ewar bonus on turret ships, but most of your prey will be flinging missiles at you.

A much better choice for ambushing is the arazu, having more dps, more survivability and ewar that helps for all ships.


 

You guys are missing the point:

1) The requirement is a stealth ship.

2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.

3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.

4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 6:03:23 AM#32
Originally posted by sadeyx
Originally posted by VultureSkull 

 Originally posted by sadeyx

Cloaking is not what it sounds like, very usefull and very fun... but not something a new player should be aiming for.

 

Ofc he can aim for it, but must be aware that it will take time, isk and will require a host of support skills( a lot of skills actually) to be effective.
 

 

Sorry I dis-agree.  some of the required skills take months on their own.

Would you really have a new player sat there for 30 days training one skill when he still has Learning skills to do? When he has yet to sit in a Battleship?..  when he hardly even has the ability to afford one, let alone replace it.

Please remember that Stealth Bomber is a PvP vessel!  In order to pvp you need to be self-sufficient.  Being self sufficient is usually the first requirment of any Pvp organisation (they dont want leechers)

His goal should be Frigate - Cruiser - Battle ships,  skill up to solo level 4 missions = self sufficient.  After that you can do anything in Eve.


 

I agree with you, it is best to become self sufficent first and the best advice is what you give above of that there is no doubt.

However, he can always have stealth ships as his overall aim, that is what i meant.

And talior what he learns accordingly, he for example, may not need to go all the way to Battleship if he can trade to make isk and be self sufficient that way.

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 6:25:50 AM#33


Originally posted by VultureSkull
 
You guys are missing the point:
1) The requirement is a stealth ship.
2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.
3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.
4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

We are not missing the point, we fly those ships(at least me) :)


If you want to pick on haulers, defenseless ships and frigs, there are better ships and ways how to do it.

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 6:36:28 AM#34
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by VultureSkull
 
You guys are missing the point:
1) The requirement is a stealth ship.
2) The Pilgrim gets into web range using stealth.
3) its DPS is its drones, for which it has bonuses, and carry a full load of Medium drones.
4) and most importantly the Pilgirm pilot picks his targets. So you pick turret ships or ships with no weapons at all, And all frigs will be susceptable to its neut/vampire fittings.

 

We are not missing the point, we fly those ships(at least me) :)


If you want to pick on haulers, defenseless ships and frigs, there are better ships and ways how to do it.
 


 

Its been some time since i have looked at the other Recon ships(covert), but the last time i checked none has the dps of the Pilgrim.

Please let me know which other Recon ship can match the dps of the pilgrim. Or can do a better job.

Thanks,

 

EDIT: Just checked and all the other recon ships ( taht cn fit the cover cloak) have 4 HI slots, 3 turrets and 1 launcher.

One Hi slot will go to the cloak, so left with either 3 turrets or 2 turrets/1 launcher .

A full set of medium drones would do more DPS then 3 turrets or 3 turrets/1 launcher, more so if you need to fit a tank and warpscramb/web and have no space for damage mods and tracking computers.

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 6:49:46 AM#35


Originally posted by VultureSkull
 
Its been some time since i have looked at the other Recon ships(covert), but the last time i checked none has the dps of the Pilgrim.
Please let me know which other Recon ship can match the dps of the pilgrim. Or can do a better job.
Thanks,


You were checking wrong then or your memory fails you. Any recon can do about the same DPS so the pick is yours.

Pilgrim: 238 DPS with 5x Hammerhead
Arazu: 226 DPS with 150mm Dual Rails(the weakest possible, no dmg enchancers) and drones.

Pilgrim has no room for guns at all(if you want to use neuts) while other ships can use guns + drones/+lows so it evens out at the end.

You're welcome :)

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/10 8:52:40 AM#36
Originally posted by Gdemami

 

 


 

You're welcome :)

 


 

Thank you, I stand corrected.

When these ships first came out the Pilgrim was the only viable option regarding DPS. As the others had like one turret.

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 9:43:39 AM#37


Originally posted by VultureSkull
 
Thank you, I stand corrected.
When these ships first came out the Pilgrim was the only viable option regarding DPS. As the others had like one turret.
Thanks for clearing this up.
 

The Pilgrim popularity at release had nothing to do with DPS but overpowered NOS.

  Xennith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 1264

2/19/10 11:24:21 AM#38

I like the falcon fitted with blasters, i tend to lose them a fair bit but they are fun to fly. Or you could fit a covert cyno to a rapier and use a bomber gang a couple of systems back as your dps. Or use a normal cyno and bring in a carrier or 6.

 

The pilgrim is apparently an ok ship to fly, you have to be careful but with the web changes and a lowsec plate + afterburner you can easily outpace anything that can track you, just pick your targets.

  nikoa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 70

 
OP  2/19/10 11:42:56 AM#39

I understand that in EVE certain things take time.  I am fine with that.  

It appears that I should get more immediate goals in the meantime.

Perhaps this is where the EVE problem exists, when someone has too many options he gets lost in the details.  I am guessing that the best thing I can do is keep exploring the universe and game functionality for a bit and then start working on specific goals since right now I don't know 95% of the gameplay anyway.


Current Games: EVE, WoW
Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, CoH, CoX, MXO, GW, Silk Road, WAR, AoC, Anarchy Online, UO, DDO

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

2/19/10 2:16:29 PM#40

Pilgrim getting owned by T1 cruiser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RalI4tOxdQ8

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