Originally posted by sickan

^ This!

As you said. They are not Blizzard, nor any other big company. They are an independent company, doing what no other big company would do! We need more to this genre imo, and since no big company does it, well, I guess it is up to the indies to do it then even if it is hard.

 

It is a tough businees, and they are trying their best. This thread is the proof od that! 

See you in game!"

Propping up companies by being a blind fan does *not* help the MMO community, nor the PvP genre *at all*. All it does is encourage people that have no business making games (like SV) to make games and try to sell them.

Capitalism does work. People make a product that serves a niche, but if that product does not adequately fulfill that niche, or the product is subpar, capitalism is what removes it from the market because the demand for the product is poor and the quality as well. When you have people fanning the flames for a product that sucks, you subvert the point of capitalism. Well, I suppose that's advertising. But ultimately the product if it sucks, will fail.

Only time will tell in MO's case, but my guess is that launch will be atrocious and the game will go the way of Dark and Light. I mean, all the same signs are there, including people fanning the flames for a game that most people think sucks.

I bought it back when you had buy it to try the beta. I was very upset at what they had for the E block of beta was supposed to be what they were going to have for release. I sent a nasty email to them also nasty posts on various forums lol. Got warned here and banned from their forums )   But whatever ive cooled off ,just got the beta again last night and wiling to give these guys another chance. I need a good hardcore FFA mmorpg so, hope they can pull it off.

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Originally posted by sickan

 

 

Propping up companies by being a blind fan does *not* help the MMO community, nor the PvP genre *at all*. All it does is encourage people that have no business making games (like SV) to make games and try to sell them.

 

Capitalism does work. People make a product that serves a niche, but if that product does not adequately fulfill that niche, or the product is subpar, capitalism is what removes it from the market because the demand for the product is poor and the quality as well. When you have people fanning the flames for a product that sucks, you subvert the point of capitalism. Well, I suppose that's advertising. But ultimately the product if it sucks, will fail.

 

Only time will tell in MO's case, but my guess is that launch will be atrocious and the game will go the way of Dark and Light. I mean, all the same signs are there, including people fanning the flames for a game that most people think sucks.

Well, I have to disagree on this. Regarding to yourself DF had no business model either, and regarding to many players that is a good game today, right?

Even if a company is unexperienced and "unprofessional" (like you claimed AV was as well) they seemed to manage to get their game to the market, and still developing it for the better.

All again entrepreneurship makes things better imo. Even if only 2-3 outta 10 makes it, it is for the better good so we do not have all those WoW clones out there. I want to be able to chose what to play, not another clone every time! This is not only in the gaming industry, but in every industry. This is how it all spurs and evolve for the better!

Originally posted by sickan

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Originally posted by sickan

 

 

Propping up companies by being a blind fan does *not* help the MMO community, nor the PvP genre *at all*. All it does is encourage people that have no business making games (like SV) to make games and try to sell them.

 

Capitalism does work. People make a product that serves a niche, but if that product does not adequately fulfill that niche, or the product is subpar, capitalism is what removes it from the market because the demand for the product is poor and the quality as well. When you have people fanning the flames for a product that sucks, you subvert the point of capitalism. Well, I suppose that's advertising. But ultimately the product if it sucks, will fail.

 

Only time will tell in MO's case, but my guess is that launch will be atrocious and the game will go the way of Dark and Light. I mean, all the same signs are there, including people fanning the flames for a game that most people think sucks.

Well, I have to disagree on this. Regarding to yourself DF had no business model either, and regarding to many players that is a good game today, right?

Even if a company is unexperienced and "unprofessional" (like you claimed AV was as well) they seemed to manage to get their game to the market, and still developing it for the better.

All again entrepreneurship makes things better imo. Even if only 2-3 outta 10 makes it, it is for the better good so we do not have all those WoW clones out there. I want to be able to chose what to play, not another clone every time! This is not only in the gaming industry, but in every industry. This is how it all spurs and evolve for the better!

No, I think Darkfall sucks because it's a boring game. Not because it's poorly programmed. They developed the engine from the ground up, they developed all the network code, they developed their server backend technology. They just made a game whose business model is flawed I think, but time will tell on that one... I still don't see it lasting that long just due to the harsh nature of the game.

Like I said... time will tell, and ultimately capitalism will prevail here. I think MO is going the same way as Mourning or Dark and Light -- all the historical signs point to it. Whereas AV released a game that is just boring (in my opinion), MO is set to release a game that is so incomplete and buggy, I wouldn't even label it a "game" yet. While people are clammoring for the big content patch that will fix every system, add in everything that's missing, redo combat, fix magic, fix crafting, etc... the reality is that patches like that do not work well and there is a history of MO messing up patch after patch. Look at the support forums on their own site -- they are full of problems of crashing, memory leaks, patcher problems (which I warned them about 6+ months ago), and a lot more.

The only thing you can say about DF beyond that, is that their launch was botched because they didn't have a method in place to create and validate accounts automatically. Beyond that though, the game was very playable and didn't leak memory like MO is, and gave good performance to boot. It's not fun, but the game in and of itself did work. That's why it's still around now.

  I am sorry. Some time ago I saw that you "have found AV's business model". And you clearely state that it is poorly programmed, mediocre game play and so on, even that it was "a steaming pile of crap".

So I guess you are bit contradictory right now - and just talks bad about any product you dislike!? 

Originally posted by sickan

  I am sorry. Some time ago I saw that you "have found AV's business model". And you clearely state that it is poorly programmed, mediocre game play and so on, even that it was "a steaming pile of crap".

So I guess you are bit contradictory right now - and just talks bad about any product you dislike!? 

AV's business model is not indicative of their programming.

I don't recall talking about their programming -- maybe some of their processes. With MO however, I know I can talk about their programming because a fan made their patcher. At least DF's patcher worked.

That said... people usually do talk badly about products they dislike. Otherwise they would like them.

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by dollada06

 I personally DESPISE people using the "Hey they are an Indie Company" for an excuse to problems with their games and stuff like that; however, with Star Vault I have learned to make an exception because they really are on a shoe string budget by the look of it and they still do many things better than say Blizzard or NCSoft.  For one they have a fully functioning Forums which NCSoft Lacks with Aion even now.

 

I while back I hosted the Original "(Un)Official" Mortal Online Community Ventrilo Server and I had Moderators and even a Dev one time stop in and chat with us!  It was super cool and I can guarantee you that all other major MMO companies have never done something like stop by a Player hosted Ventrilo site.  It its pretty small in the large scheme of things but its the little stuff that SV has done that have kept me around even despite there shotty beta at times.  Even that lately has taken a huge turn around and is truely impressing me.

 

My Opinion:  Flat Out Star Vault isn't Blizzard or NCSoft.  They Never will be by the look of it.  But thats fine because they do the small things to perfection.  Go Star Vault and I hope for the absolute best for Mortal Online.  Can't wait for my Full Loot Bag!

 

Does not matter how nice they are or anything like that, if they can't produce a professional game, they should not be in business.  Thats how capitalism works, if you fail, something else will take your place.

That's silly, you don't seem to remember UO, EQ (or EQ2 for that matter) Shadowbane, VG- oh the list goes on. In fact the bugs in some of those initial MMO releases were game-breaking.

MO will be a niche game for a niche crowd, if their playerbase who appreciates what they are doing sticks around then they do, if not the game will survive since it didnt have EVE type success in mind.

Originally posted by Player_420

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by dollada06

 I personally DESPISE people using the "Hey they are an Indie Company" for an excuse to problems with their games and stuff like that; however, with Star Vault I have learned to make an exception because they really are on a shoe string budget by the look of it and they still do many things better than say Blizzard or NCSoft.  For one they have a fully functioning Forums which NCSoft Lacks with Aion even now.

 

I while back I hosted the Original "(Un)Official" Mortal Online Community Ventrilo Server and I had Moderators and even a Dev one time stop in and chat with us!  It was super cool and I can guarantee you that all other major MMO companies have never done something like stop by a Player hosted Ventrilo site.  It its pretty small in the large scheme of things but its the little stuff that SV has done that have kept me around even despite there shotty beta at times.  Even that lately has taken a huge turn around and is truely impressing me.

 

My Opinion:  Flat Out Star Vault isn't Blizzard or NCSoft.  They Never will be by the look of it.  But thats fine because they do the small things to perfection.  Go Star Vault and I hope for the absolute best for Mortal Online.  Can't wait for my Full Loot Bag!

 

Does not matter how nice they are or anything like that, if they can't produce a professional game, they should not be in business.  Thats how capitalism works, if you fail, something else will take your place.

 

That's silly, you don't seem to remember UO, EQ (or EQ2 for that matter) Shadowbane, VG- oh the list goes on. In fact the bugs in some of those initial MMO releases were game-breaking.

MO will be a niche game for a niche crowd, if their playerbase who appreciates what they are doing sticks around then they do, if not the game will survive since it didnt have EVE type success in mind.

You don't seem to recall the rules of the free market.

When supply > demand (lots of MMOs) then people weed out the crap and buy the good stuff. MO is in a niche market but it's competing against Darkfall which actually works and is fun for some people, or by WOW, Vanguard, Age of Conan, etc. When UO came out, there was no competition. EQ had 1 competitor. Shadowbane well -- that's out of business. Vanguard is barely holding on, and only because Sony's pursestrings. The game hasn't had a worthwhile update in a while so it's stagnant, and you'll find that gone in a reasonably soon amount of time too.

Again, we will see. I am not a fortune teller like some of the folks on this board, but I don't mind taking a bet that has no risk to see that I'm right.

Originally posted by HerculesSAS 

 

Again, we will see. I am not a fortune teller like some of the folks on this board, but I don't mind taking a bet that has no risk to see that I'm right.

Are you calling me a fortune teller?

Originally posted by sickan

 

You see, this is why I think you are funny. You claim that you are here bashing on MO because they denied you a refund. Did DF denied you a refund as well, and that is why you hated and trash talked them as well? 

And to still claim SV can't programming because they did not made their own patcher is becoming redicoulus. Then I can say that NCsoft cannot program since they have anyone else that made the engine (cryEngine) for Aion, and you know it is not like that!

 

 

 

1) They really can't deny someone their refund, credit card can force it back from them. CC likes customers more than companies.

2) SV are unrealengine modders, they do not have any programming experience as they still have not created a professional patcher in the last 8 months.  Why do you think they are having so many problems with lag and database errors, they do not know how to fix them as they are not professional coders.

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by sickan

 

You see, this is why I think you are funny. You claim that you are here bashing on MO because they denied you a refund. Did DF denied you a refund as well, and that is why you hated and trash talked them as well? 

And to still claim SV can't programming because they did not made their own patcher is becoming redicoulus. Then I can say that NCsoft cannot program since they have anyone else that made the engine (cryEngine) for Aion, and you know it is not like that!

 

 

 

 

 

1) They really can't deny someone their refund, credit card can force it back from them. CC likes customers more than companies.

2) SV are unrealengine modders, they do not have any programming experience as they still have not created a professional patcher in the last 8 months.  Why do you think they are having so many problems with lag and database errors, they do not know how to fix them as they are not professional coders.

Where did u got this inside info??

Originally posted by BuddyT4nk

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

 

 

1) They really can't deny someone their refund, credit card can force it back from them. CC likes customers more than companies.

2) SV are unrealengine modders, they do not have any programming experience as they still have not created a professional patcher in the last 8 months.  Why do you think they are having so many problems with lag and database errors, they do not know how to fix them as they are not professional coders.

 

Where did u got this inside info??

From their forums... if you search here(or the MO forums) you will find links to their statements.  The lead programmer said that he got the job due to his 2 years of experience as an unreal modder.  The other programmer said he was hired by SV after a total of 6 months experience programming milk carton machinery....

Doesn't make them bad guys... but experience is very important in most undertakings and creating an MMO is certainly one of them.  They have stated that they are learning of the job as they go.  Some of their recent stuff is much better than the older stuff, but the problem is that many of the underlying systems were the first ones built, and thus the weakest ones, so it is like building on top of sand.   This is why there are issues with things such as the database and it causing lag in game...

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by BuddyT4nk

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

 

 

1) They really can't deny someone their refund, credit card can force it back from them. CC likes customers more than companies.

2) SV are unrealengine modders, they do not have any programming experience as they still have not created a professional patcher in the last 8 months.  Why do you think they are having so many problems with lag and database errors, they do not know how to fix them as they are not professional coders.

 

Where did u got this inside info??

 

From their forums... if you search here(or the MO forums) you will find links to their statements.  The lead programmer said that he got the job due to his 2 years of experience as an unreal modder.  The other programmer said he was hired by SV after a total of 6 months experience programming milk carton machinery....

Doesn't make them bad guys... but experience is very important in most undertakings and creating an MMO is certainly one of them.  They have stated that they are learning of the job as they go.  Some of their recent stuff is much better than the older stuff, but the problem is that many of the underlying systems were the first ones built, and thus the weakest ones, so it is like building on top of sand.   This is why there are issues with things such as the database and it causing lag in game...

 

that might be true, but you have to start some where. That is the problem with jobs these days, everyone asks for 1-2 years experience at least...but there are very very few jobs who take on people with no experience, at least SV is giving people that chance.

MO isn't a bad concept but the marketing team probably needs to be replaced a little.  The game could use some polish as well but I think given time (and proof of unquestionable development tactics) I may give it a try after beta.

Originally posted by Ravenmane

MO isn't a bad concept but the marketing team probably needs to be replaced a little.  The game could use some polish as well but I think given time (and proof of unquestionable development tactics) I may give it a try after beta.

It's hard to market a turd, even if it is a polished one. MO's concept on paper I loved, it's why I got interested in the game to begin with.

It's the part about them actually knowing how to implement that idea, and actually have an underlying design behind it all is where they failed. But that's what I get for thinking that people who haven't shipped a single title individually or collectively, to pull of a game of this ambition.