Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by hoppy87

its also amazing that its starting to come to light that in every instance where the gridlock bug has really shown itself -a- has benefitted from it.

 

Yes, one might almost conclude that the -A- FCs have the faintest idea of what the fuck they're doing.

There are a number of things that one can do to mitigate the effects of lag on big fleet actions. -A- & co did them; Provibloc largely didn't. -A- "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage in much the same way that a student who revises his material before an exam has an advantage over one who doesn't.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by hoppy87

its also amazing that its starting to come to light that in every instance where the gridlock bug has really shown itself -a- has benefitted from it.

 

Yes, one might almost conclude that the -A- FCs have the faintest idea of what the fuck they're doing.

There are a number of things that one can do to mitigate the effects of lag on big fleet actions. -A- & co did them; Provibloc largely didn't. -A- "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage in much the same way that a student who revises his material before an exam has an advantage over one who doesn't.

 

vs PL, vs WI vs CVA. yeah noone knows what they are doing to exploit bugs in eve like -a- does.  instead of being banned you act like you deserve a medal for using exploits.

Sorry buddy, but that's a lot of bullshit. It's possible to defend space - ask Batolemeus. But not if you dont actually fight for it. Lord knows that I'm no fan of the NC, but the record is there for all to see.

The space that they didn't fight for: they lost it

The space that they did fight for: they kept (or regained) it.

The fact is that the CVA FCs fucked up. Everyone has a "welp day" now and then - you can't possibly expect to win a sov war vs a major alliance without losing several major battles, and the fact is - as anyone who has fought in such wars could tell you - sometimes the lag monster giveth and sometimes it taketh away. Build a bridge and get over it. If you abandon an entire region because you lost one fight then you dont deserve to have it.

And I might add that, much as I oppose Morsus Mihi, even though they got spanked several times in Pure Blind, they put a lot more effort into preparing for and fighting the next battle then they did whining on the forums about losing the previous one.

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Originally posted by hoppy87

vs PL, vs WI vs CVA. yeah noone knows what they are doing to exploit bugs in eve like -a- does.  instead of being banned you act like you deserve a medal for using exploits.

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What the heck are you talking about?

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Originally posted by Malcanis
Yes, one might almost conclude that the -A- FCs have the faintest idea of what the fuck they're doing.
There are a number of things that one can do to mititgate the effects of lag on big fleet actions. -A- & co did them; Provibloc largely didn't. -A- "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage in much the same way that a student who revises his material before an exam has an advantage over one who doesn't.

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It's a sad state of the game though, that fights are not won due to superior strategy, numbers, commitment, coordination or anything that you'd expect to have an impact on warfare. Wars are only won by two means: Knowing how lag works and how to make it work in your favour. That and the stubbornness to go through a war of attrition, maybe.

I have been optimizing my fittings towards lag situations, changing them over the years as lag changed. I know I'm not the only one who is doing that.
However, I do not envy people who don't know the ins and outs of lag reduction. They lose battles like WI did, or CVA. Not because of superior strategy, but because they had no experience with the lag involved in sov warfare.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by hoppy87

 

vs PL, vs WI vs CVA. yeah noone knows what they are doing to exploit bugs in eve like -a- does.  instead of being banned you act like you deserve a medal for using exploits.

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What the heck are you talking about?

Michael Wincott !!!

=D

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by hoppy87

 

vs PL, vs WI vs CVA. yeah noone knows what they are doing to exploit bugs in eve like -a- does.  instead of being banned you act like you deserve a medal for using exploits.

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What the heck are you talking about?

 

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Originally posted by Malcanis
Yes, one might almost conclude that the -A- FCs have the faintest idea of what the fuck they're doing.
There are a number of things that one can do to mititgate the effects of lag on big fleet actions. -A- & co did them; Provibloc largely didn't. -A- "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage in much the same way that a student who revises his material before an exam has an advantage over one who doesn't.

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It's a sad state of the game though, that fights are not won due to superior strategy, numbers, commitment, coordination or anything that you'd expect to have an impact on warfare. Wars are only won by two means: Knowing how lag works and how to make it work in your favour. That and the stubbornness to go through a war of attrition, maybe.

I have been optimizing my fittings towards lag situations, changing them over the years as lag changed. I know I'm not the only one who is doing that.
However, I do not envy people who don't know the ins and outs of lag reduction. They lose battles like WI did, or CVA. Not because of superior strategy, but because they had no experience with the lag involved in sov warfare.

I think you overstate the case a little when you say that knowledge of lag mitigating techniques is all that counts. Of course the FC still needs to employ good strategy, tactics, communications and so forth. It's just that they're of little use if you dont employ antilag methods as well.

However, from all accounts CVA didn't employ good tactics or antilag techniques.

Now when you get defeated you can either learn from your mistakes, or you can refuse to fight and instead whine about "cheating" "metagaming "blobs" et cetera et ad infinitum. One course of action may or may not lead to eventual victory. The other will definitely result in defeat. You rightly say that CVA lost because they lacked experience. Well now they have had that experience, but it rather sounds as if they'll continue to lose because they're commiting the most basic of EVE sins; they've refused to learn from that experience and instead they're crying on the forums like a ex-WoW player who took his Caracal in to Rancer for the first time.

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Originally posted by Malcanis
I think you overstate the case a little when you say that knowledge of lag mitigating techniques is all that counts. Of course the FC still needs to employ good strategy, tactics, communications and so forth. It's just that they're of little use if you dont employ antilag methods as well.

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Your best tactics won't do anything if you can't shoot. At all. Because nobody told you that auto repeat and grouped guns don't work too well (read: not at all) in lag.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Malcanis
I think you overstate the case a little when you say that knowledge of lag mitigating techniques is all that counts. Of course the FC still needs to employ good strategy, tactics, communications and so forth. It's just that they're of little use if you dont employ antilag methods as well.

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Your best tactics won't do anything if you can't shoot. At all. Because nobody told you that auto repeat and grouped guns don't work too well (read: not at all) in lag.

Yes, of course I agree. But being able to shoot wont help you much if your FC warps your sniper-fit BS fleet at 0Km on to short-range RR BS

Speaking of which, we got caught out by a CVA + pets RR bs fleet the other day and got a very bloody nose. Or at least our sniper BS did.

Today, the server crashed when we had a hostile station into structure, when the server came up it had gained half its shield and armour, instantly wiping out about 3 hours work for our small fleet, and that gave CVA time to rally a couple of its pilots and a big group of pets and come to try to take out our TCU. Crying doesnt help, shooting the other guy until he dies does. If you want to sit there and blame all your mistakes on lag or exploits rather than learn and get better, feel free. Means I lose less ships.

Edit: For the interested, with the help of Atlas the provi attack was beaten back, SBUs destroyed and the station is now liberated.

regardless of how you want to spin it, all of the systems you have taken, either from the NC or CVA have been taken using game breaking exploits. cudos for you since you know how to intentionally break the game so that you can act while your opponents cant i guess, at least thats CCP's opinion. apparently exploiters are the customers they are after. and by exploit i do mean someone who uses a known bug to gain an advantage, which you have freely admitted is your battleplan. if CCP were any other company your entire powerblock would have been punished in some way. instead your operatives inside CCP make sure that you keep that node up for as long as possible so you can continue to use the exploit.

great for you, guess metagaming ftw in eve online, cause it sure as hell has nothing to do with ingame fights.

Theres a saying in EVE which runs along the lines of "u mad?" which I think works quite well here. UK have not taken any systems from the northern coalition, and frankly im amazed that you could describe the taking of J6 as the result of an exploit. Sylph forgot to pay the bill and this was the price.

We were hit by a bug, we rolled with it and came out on top. The only difference being that a server crash is unpredicatable, but any FC will tell you not to jump into a hostile fleet in very heavy lag.

Like I said earlier, keep blaming our successes on developer hacks and conspiracy theories rather than learning any lessons.

He mad

Looks like the new mods are deleting without reason now. Joy.

So i guess telling someone who's wildly accusating random people of exploiting that he has, indeed, no clue what he's talking about is subject to deletion. I see.

And yes, he mad.

Technically, using Teamspeak/Ventrillo is "metagaming"....

Originally posted by hoppy87

regardless of how you want to spin it, all of the systems you have taken, either from the NC or CVA have been taken using game breaking exploits. cudos for you since you know how to intentionally break the game so that you can act while your opponents cant i guess, at least thats CCP's opinion. apparently exploiters are the customers they are after. and by exploit i do mean someone who uses a known bug to gain an advantage, which you have freely admitted is your battleplan. if CCP were any other company your entire powerblock would have been punished in some way. instead your operatives inside CCP make sure that you keep that node up for as long as possible so you can continue to use the exploit.

 

great for you, guess metagaming ftw in eve online, cause it sure as hell has nothing to do with ingame fights.

lol.....

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Originally posted by Malcanis
Technically, using Teamspeak/Ventrillo is "metagaming"....

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Just posting about the game on a forum is a form of meta gaming, especially if you're trying to badmouth your enemies by spreading lies.

True that, you damb dirty metagamer!

a more thorough writeup

http://www.eveonline.com/mb2/news.asp?nid=3694
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3696&aid=105650
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3697&aid=105650
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3698&aid=105650

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Originally posted by nurgles
a more thorough writeup

http://www.eveonline.com/mb2/news.asp?nid=3694
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3696&aid=105650
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3697&aid=105650
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3698&aid=105650

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I wouldn't trust anything ISD IC writes. They've happily spread false information fed to them, seem to have a deep aversion to fact checking and generally have a terrible overview over what's actually going on.
Scrapheap Challenge usually has much better (and varified..) infos.