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News & Features Discussion  » Star Trek Online: STO - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

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122 posts found
  Simsu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/06/03
Posts: 313

2/10/10 6:53:43 PM#41

I think is a pretty fair write up on the in game attributes of STO. Its too bad so many out of game decisions effect the game.

  Samhael

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/04
Posts: 573

2/10/10 6:55:23 PM#42

 Hmmm... I've never gotten space loot in the ground game... or vice-versa.

I'm in agreement that the content is light (Cmdr 3 here).  The named missions are pretty cool for sure but they are interspersed with the largely-bland Patrol and Explore missions.

And I'm 100% in agreement on the global channel being useless. I think this is one of the biggest faults of the single-world design that Cryptic uses.  In separate servers (even fully loaded), the Zone chat would be much more manageable and useful (and therefore more interesting) than in the STO/CO standard.  Someone asks a question and even though I immediately start my response, it comes out 4 pages later.  Zone chat is rife with confusion.  You have to use a tell to make sure your target gets what you say.  One of the senior members of my guild picked up the game yesterday and logged in for the first time.  Within 5 minutes of his fleet invite, he was asking how to disable the Zone chat so he could focus.

I'm still having fun and enjoying the experience.  Not rushing to the end, just taking my time.  Duoing quests with my wife although we both agree that the game is essentially a single player deal at the moment.

  cerebrix

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 566

2/10/10 6:57:40 PM#43
Originally posted by Goristro
Originally posted by cerebrix

Because, you know, comparing two internet spaceship games is terrible. Wouldn't want someone to give their opinions on games in a game review article.


Internet spaceships are serious business. Nice troll, though.
 

 

sorry, but although it might be easier to dismiss something you dont agree with as a "troll".  some of us are trying to have a conversation.  it saddens me that these days anything that is any kind of a disagreement quickly gets a label thrown upon it.  i believe david cross once called that "another symptom of the glorification of stupid".  which i thought was a very astute way of putting it.

 

i was looking for feedback from scott on this directly.  hence why i directly addressed and quoted him.

Games i'm playing right now...

"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com

  Czargio

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 183

2/10/10 6:59:01 PM#44

 Ignore the haters Lum, I loved the Eve link. I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Besides, I really love that system in Eve, even if I never actively participated in it (I liked my ships too much).

I don't seen any problem in linking Eve, it is very relevant to the discussion. It doesn't kill his integrity all of the sudden because he points out what one game did well that another did not do well. The idea he sold out to the advertisers is laughable.

  Masoniclight

Novice Member

Joined: 7/31/03
Posts: 87

2/10/10 6:59:10 PM#45

 The Miranda is supposed to teach you tactics and ship mobility, mixing and matching of skills and getting a hold of how to play the game.. so I'm not sure why the complaint Scott.. did you want to have the Sovereign as a your first ship? 

The glitiches are well.. a bad mark on Cryptic to be sure, but the game is a blast IMHO... does it feel a bit repetitive? Well.. what MMO isn't repetitive? So again.. not anything new there. And although I usually applaud "Shameless" plugs but to plug Eve over STO? *alarm* Wrong answer! Sorry Scott that was bad.

  LumTheMad

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/09
Posts: 29

2/10/10 7:11:31 PM#46
Originally posted by cerebrix

i was looking for feedback from scott on this directly.  hence why i directly addressed and quoted him.
Originally posted by cerebrix

Scott, scott, scott, scott, scott......

its glaringly obvious, you arent a writer.....

im actually embarassed for you.


Awfully passive aggressive way of going about your task.

 

 

 

  LumTheMad

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/09
Posts: 29

2/10/10 7:15:13 PM#47
Originally posted by Masoniclight

 The Miranda is supposed to teach you tactics and ship mobility, mixing and matching of skills and getting a hold of how to play the game.. so I'm not sure why the complaint Scott.. did you want to have the Sovereign as a your first ship?

Not particularly. It's just that the Miranda doesn't particularly have *any* strong point; the difference between that and the specialty ships is dramatic. Perhaps making it more maneuverable would have helped.

And I'm sorry if you thought my somewhat snarky reference to a related game was out of bounds. As can be seen from my sig file I have been playing an Internet spaceships game this past week and it isn't the one I am supposedly shilling. It is common to treat discussion of MMOs as zero-sum games, but really, saying that one game does something well does not automatically follow as an attack on every other title in the genre.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2156

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

2/10/10 7:16:34 PM#48
Originally posted by cerebrix
Originally posted by Goristro
Originally posted by cerebrix

Because, you know, comparing two internet spaceship games is terrible. Wouldn't want someone to give their opinions on games in a game review article.


Internet spaceships are serious business. Nice troll, though.
 

 

sorry, but although it might be easier to dismiss something you dont agree with as a "troll".  some of us are trying to have a conversation.  it saddens me that these days anything that is any kind of a disagreement quickly gets a label thrown upon it.  i believe david cross once called that "another symptom of the glorification of stupid".  which i thought was a very astute way of putting it.

 

i was looking for feedback from scott on this directly.  hence why i directly addressed and quoted him.

Yes, and as I said earlier, some of us are trying to have a conversation about the content of his article rather than his stylistic decisions.

And also as I said, if you are looking for feedback from scott directly, why don't you PM him, and let us talk about what he wrote instead of how he wrote it.

You are obviously trying to humiliate him publicly and you are catching a lot of flak for it being entirely unfounded. If your aims were honest, than, you would be following my advice above.

  ascroobla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/10
Posts: 55

"All men are created unequal."

2/10/10 9:08:43 PM#49

I think it's odd that on reviewing this game (even a partial based on the first few levels) you didn't mention the lack of well... Star Trek-ness of this game.

Ignoring the original TV series, Star Trek is rarely about space combat or ground combat or escorting stuff, it's usually about strange new life forms and the problems of initiating communication or trying to best work the prime directive in a new situation or whatever. In short it's full of clever interesting puzzles (think Q for great examples of this), and STO just isn't. It's the standard kill/collect/escort stuff of other offerings with tedious reliance on a random quest generator making them all feel identical.

If you want mindless stuff, then Space Above and Beyond should have been the franchise linked to this game not Star Trek.

  User Deleted
2/10/10 9:17:36 PM#50
Originally posted by cerebrix
Originally posted by Goristro
Originally posted by cerebrix

Because, you know, comparing two internet spaceship games is terrible. Wouldn't want someone to give their opinions on games in a game review article.


Internet spaceships are serious business. Nice troll, though.
 

 

sorry, but although it might be easier to dismiss something you dont agree with as a "troll".  some of us are trying to have a conversation.  it saddens me that these days anything that is any kind of a disagreement quickly gets a label thrown upon it.  i believe david cross once called that "another symptom of the glorification of stupid".  which i thought was a very astute way of putting it.

 

i was looking for feedback from scott on this directly.  hence why i directly addressed and quoted him.


 

As someone already said, send Scott a PM then. 

Nobody wants to read the nonsense that you are spouting.  It has nothing to do with the content of the article.

Also, if you can't be bothered to capitalise these little rants, you really have no business attacking somebody else's writing.

 

  Nesrie

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/08
Posts: 652

2/10/10 10:09:55 PM#51
Originally posted by ascroobla

I think it's odd that on reviewing this game (even a partial based on the first few levels) you didn't mention the lack of well... Star Trek-ness of this game.

 

I think that makes the review stronger actually. There have been some claims that the Star Trek fans are demanding too much. Well here is a review that focuses mostly on the gamer aspect, still not up to par. I admit, I am a fan of the series but not everything Star Trek. Even overlooking the nonstop kill everything in space, kill everything on the ground aspect of the game, I found it lacking for the price they were asking for it.

parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  ascroobla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/10
Posts: 55

"All men are created unequal."

2/10/10 10:17:59 PM#52
Originally posted by Nesrie
Originally posted by ascroobla

I think it's odd that on reviewing this game (even a partial based on the first few levels) you didn't mention the lack of well... Star Trek-ness of this game.

 

I think that makes the review stronger actually. There have been some claims that the Star Trek fans are demanding too much. Well here is a review that focuses mostly on the gamer aspect, still not up to par. I admit, I am a fan of the series but not everything Star Trek. Even overlooking the nonstop kill everything in space, kill everything on the ground aspect of the game, I found it lacking for the price they were asking for it.


 

I know where you're coming from, but this is a licenced game, not just "a game". The game play definitely needs the review, and I agree with you that it's shoddy in it's own right.

But it's also supposed to be a "Star Trek" game, and it fails in that aspect too. I'm not a big Trekkie as a sci-fi series it's one of the few I could take or leave (I'd rather see a Babylon 5 or Farscape based game tbh).

The big draw for STO is the franchise after all, if this had been a "insert random space game name here" game it would have sold much less than a million boxes and the gameplay would have been all that mattered.

But here you not only have a bad game, but it's a bad game that doesn't really capture the essence of the franchise it is supposed to represent.

  oddjobs74

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/07
Posts: 597

2/10/10 11:08:41 PM#53
Originally posted by ascroobla
Originally posted by Nesrie
Originally posted by ascroobla

I think it's odd that on reviewing this game (even a partial based on the first few levels) you didn't mention the lack of well... Star Trek-ness of this game.

 

I think that makes the review stronger actually. There have been some claims that the Star Trek fans are demanding too much. Well here is a review that focuses mostly on the gamer aspect, still not up to par. I admit, I am a fan of the series but not everything Star Trek. Even overlooking the nonstop kill everything in space, kill everything on the ground aspect of the game, I found it lacking for the price they were asking for it.


 

I know where you're coming from, but this is a licenced game, not just "a game". The game play definitely needs the review, and I agree with you that it's shoddy in it's own right.

But it's also supposed to be a "Star Trek" game, and it fails in that aspect too. I'm not a big Trekkie as a sci-fi series it's one of the few I could take or leave (I'd rather see a Babylon 5 or Farscape based game tbh).

The big draw for STO is the franchise after all, if this had been a "insert random space game name here" game it would have sold much less than a million boxes and the gameplay would have been all that mattered.

But here you not only have a bad game, but it's a bad game that doesn't really capture the essence of the franchise it is supposed to represent.


 

What  they need to do is change the skins and music in the game and call it: GENERIC Warhammer 40K. the mission system and game play in general is more reminiscent of that franchise...

Change Star Fleet to Imperium of Man, and kill all that aint of the empire.

  SeijiTataki

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 3

2/11/10 12:21:45 AM#54

You're incorrect on a couple of points in terms of the gameplay;

Loot is split as ground versus space items. You will never loot ground items in space, and never space items in ground. So you will never loot a quantum torpedo launcher off a Reman Centurion.

There is also no such thing as a "Torpedo boat escort" for strong alphas - while you can outfit a ship with torpedoes, torpedo auncherss put other launchers on cooldown, so you can only ever open up with a single torpedo volley.

"Patrol Missions" are not randomly generated - you're thinking of the "Genesis" missions that are available to you in nebulous zones. The Patrol Missions are straight content missions that are intended to get you around through levels between the more story intensive 'episode' missions - this is the reason you've blown through content and are at a low level feeling you need to grind deep space enounters. Not doing the patrol missions is actually causing you to miss out on huge sections of experience.

In regards to Klingons - in the coming patch, Cryptic is promising PVE missions for Klingons, which will be the equivalent to the episodic missions you get Federation side. How true this is, however, is certainly up to debate - but should be noted as one of the things they are promising.

Missing documentation is a good point - and is actually related to a few points you're missing in your comments.

Weapons do have a range - while every weapon can fire at 10.0KM, they have optimal damage ranges. Different weapons experience 'fall off' values of damage at different rates. Beams can do more damage at further range than cannons, but cannons do greater damage over all, while Torpedoes always do their damage no matter the distance. Your weapons power setting - which I noticed you didn't go into power settings at all - effect the damage of your energy weapons, which include beams, cannons and turrets, but not torpedoes.

In regards to power settings; weapons power increases beam damage, and weapons firing will drain power the more of them you have, shields power increases the regeneration rate of your shields, engine power increases your flight speed, aux increases your turn rate and certain science abilities. Energy settings in any field below 50 have a negative effect, 50 is a as-advertised effect, and above fifty increases the effect of those systems.

  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 661

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

2/11/10 12:23:16 AM#55

  Yet, like Guild Wars, Star Trek Online is heavily, heavily instanced – while this allows all players, like in Guild Wars, to effectively play on a single “server”, this also means that at any given time you’re only with at the most 20 or so other players, and usually no more than 4 others. 

 

Thats did it for me right there.

I'll stick with my EVE thank you.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4658

2/11/10 1:15:42 AM#56
Originally posted by SeijiTataki

You're incorrect on a couple of points in terms of the gameplay;

Loot is split as ground versus space items. You will never loot ground items in space, and never space items in ground. So you will never loot a quantum torpedo launcher off a Reman Centurion.

There is also no such thing as a "Torpedo boat escort" for strong alphas - while you can outfit a ship with torpedoes, torpedo auncherss put other launchers on cooldown, so you can only ever open up with a single torpedo volley.

"Patrol Missions" are not randomly generated - you're thinking of the "Genesis" missions that are available to you in nebulous zones. The Patrol Missions are straight content missions that are intended to get you around through levels between the more story intensive 'episode' missions - this is the reason you've blown through content and are at a low level feeling you need to grind deep space enounters. Not doing the patrol missions is actually causing you to miss out on huge sections of experience.

In regards to Klingons - in the coming patch, Cryptic is promising PVE missions for Klingons, which will be the equivalent to the episodic missions you get Federation side. How true this is, however, is certainly up to debate - but should be noted as one of the things they are promising.

Missing documentation is a good point - and is actually related to a few points you're missing in your comments.

Weapons do have a range - while every weapon can fire at 10.0KM, they have optimal damage ranges. Different weapons experience 'fall off' values of damage at different rates. Beams can do more damage at further range than cannons, but cannons do greater damage over all, while Torpedoes always do their damage no matter the distance. Your weapons power setting - which I noticed you didn't go into power settings at all - effect the damage of your energy weapons, which include beams, cannons and turrets, but not torpedoes.

In regards to power settings; weapons power increases beam damage, and weapons firing will drain power the more of them you have, shields power increases the regeneration rate of your shields, engine power increases your flight speed, aux increases your turn rate and certain science abilities. Energy settings in any field below 50 have a negative effect, 50 is a as-advertised effect, and above fifty increases the effect of those systems.


 

Scott reviewed the game as it is NOW!  As it should be!

I am getting so friggin' tired hearing (almost regelious) fans talking about "coming patch will fix this", "coming patch will bring that".... yadaydayada.

First see, then believe!  Cryptic has promissed the sky with CO as well, tricking people with their 45-day after launch patch that never came. Just to get them subcribe for another month. So please.

And now they pull the same trick again with the 45-day after launch patch for STO. And so many people just keep falling for this little clever marketing trick. Unbelievable!

Cheers

  SeijiTataki

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 3

2/11/10 1:34:52 AM#57

Did you even read my post, or lock onto one single line about a coming patch and flip out?

Everything except one point was written about content that is currently live in the game, and the only point I made about coming content was clarifying on a point he made by referencing from what was said on the website.

These so called fan boys who you are referencing (I even made a point to say that what they say and what occurs could be different) are just as bad as people who flip out for no apparent reason without properly stopping to read.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2693

2/11/10 2:41:31 AM#58
Originally posted by Masoniclight

 The Miranda is supposed to teach you tactics and ship mobility, mixing and matching of skills and getting a hold of how to play the game.. so I'm not sure why the complaint Scott.. did you want to have the Sovereign as a your first ship? 

Whatever the weaknesses of the Miranda should be, the fact remains that a lot of people complain how it just isn't fun.  This is a game, so if it is seriously lacking in fun then that's a problem.
 

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 4733

2/11/10 3:00:20 AM#59

For me being able to dress in any ST uniform from any time in the series is ludicrous. I did not expect them to just use one uniform set. ST always saved money by not showing people in hazard/environmental/space/armour suits. So putting those in is fine.

It does not matter if you had to preorder or whatever, the basic uniform should be the same for all members of Star Fleet. To have every uniform from the different series means this game should be called Star Trek Themepark, not Star Trek Online. (I am not referring to gameplay here, to avoid confusion).

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6384

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

2/11/10 3:06:17 AM#60
Originally posted by Breezeycouk

 

Okay - So I am going to come across as a complete schiz here but bear with me....
I am one of the Beta testers / Head starts / Life time subs players for STO and I am loving it on the one hand. Space is great and well rendered in a EVE / X style and flows well. The ground combat / events are okay - people seem responsive to noise / actions etc and things flow well and respawns seem balanced so far... Kit drops seem equal and not to un-balanced. Playing the beta and then the head start I thought it was a good idea to go for the life time sub based on the subs costs and how long I played SWG / WoW etc for before binning them. (Hell - I would still be playing SWG now if it weren't for the stupid CU upgrade !!!) . There were major problems on the beta and head start on logging in but these where acknowledged quickly and a plan put in place that seemed to improve it - And you expect teething probs on a beta - that's why it is called a beta !


However......


It is limited and has the feeling of a half finished game. The missions are repetitive and the dialogue doesn't seem to have any bearing on the game yet - Klingons aren't gaining space / sectors etc. The Borg just seem completely random and (To the best of my knowledge) no Romulans / Cardassians / Dominion etc so the story line doesn't seem to add anything.


I don't know about anyone else ('m in the UK BTW.) but I am now having a problem logging on as I can't get a retail copy as my online retailer didn't get enough of the pre-orders (Huh - go figure...... Ah Yes - I have XXXX pre-orders for you - So don't worry - just ship me 1/2 or 2/3 of these.). No online or retail shop seems to have any and Direct2Don't load can't take my order via credit card or Paypal as they need to check if I know I need to by a subscription to play before I can download (And I why would I want to down load it you muppets when I have it on my PC already !!!!! ) Just give me a KEY !!! How stupid is it that after launch you can't buy it direct from STO when they were quite happy to take my money for the Lifetime Sub offer ???
 

Feeling today is that it is just a grind out at the moment - Missions don't seem to affect the story line or power plays and are repetitive - Sometimes it Klingons, sometimes Gorn, Sometimes Nausiccans..... Oh Hum - Same ship - Different Name...

While the big defend the sectors are "okay" they are exciting for the first few times as people band together again there is no logic to them..... So you destroy enough to "Win" the combat but they then just hang around waiting for a re-set.... Why don't the balance leave to regroup elsewhere? Starbase 24 sucks for the same reason - Hang on - I did this yesterday and was told I won - So why is the battle still going on ???


(Anyone remember the old days of STFC III when someone set up a server and then we played it till someone painted it green / red or blue and then it was reset and you upgraded your ship and crew as you fought....)


The "Crafting" sucks as well - Its a grind and doesn't seem to offer anything that you can't get from battles or requisition - Either that or it isn't explained well enough.... (Where's my manual ??? - Oh - I didn't get one... I know – I’ll check the online one… Oh, Wait !!! – There isn't one really.)


I also feel that there isn't the scope for "proper" exploration.......(Maybe this coming???...) You’re stuck on a grid in sector space. You are stuck in a box on space "missions" (I accidently left my ship on full impulse once while I grabbed a drink as I was looking for anomalies and came back to it bumping on a invisible "Q-Net" –( it must have been as in space I can keep going forever - Right ?)) Planets seem to all have shields to stop stupid space captains crashing in to them as well as I bumped in to one trying to kill a Bird of Prey....... and StarFleet must have a really strict policy on beaming now as you can't run forever on the planet surface.


(Gene Roddenberry had three Golden Rules when submitting a script - 1. Starships must have two nacelles otherwise they looked "wrong" and special effects could cheat... 2. Don't mess with the timeline without good reason / explanation - If someone was dead then they were dead - Don't bring 'em back to life just cos it made a good story or they were a good actor and 3.. Anything you suggest must be at least theoretically possible - Dilithium Crystals became just that because someone pointed out that Lithium already existed and won't power a Starship - The script writer said he had heard it somewhere and lithium sounded a cool word....(Before anyone says it – Yes – I know I need to get out more.)


Anyone else bored of the constant "Loading....." tag each screen yet either

Uniforms look silly - I want to simply pick one of the series ones...???


Still buggy and crashes / does weird things in graphics or doesn't refresh targets properly.


Still has "Gold" spammers - When is someone going to write a filter to catch / stop before they start these guys???


It's wrong that people have maxed out in the first week (Jedi anyone ???)


Maybe I'm asking too much and maybe it shouldn't be called a MMORPG and maybe it needs more work but...


I'll still play it (In the absence of anything better or that does what I want.) but I am worried for its future.  "It's a Game, Jim - But not as we know it."
 

 

Very good writeup. Wish Cryptic devs would take a look at it to understand how many flaws the game has and if it is to have any future it needs to remedy atleast some of the major ones. Like having some consequences for losing/winning a fleet action, a way to make the war go forward. I mean, everything is so static and unchangeable.

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