Guild Wars is an MMO.  You list it here, on your site, MMORPG.com.

Originally posted by Kryogenic

 hahaha You sneaky, Russian, bastard... 

He snuck in a link to EVE online at the end. I laughed pretty hard at that and am still laughing while typing up this reply.

I wish I liked EVE's gameplay. I find it too sterile, but it's definitely the best example of a persistent, player controlled world. And damn CCP for being so dedicated to that game. There dedication makes me want to jump in again and try to convince myself that I enjoy the gameplay. If the skill system wasn't real time training and the ship to ship combat wasn't so RTS-like, I'd happily play it to the exclusion of everything else.

Hell, if they added in "AMBULATION" (Said with dramatic basso and accompanied by a drum roll. Seriously, it's lame to try to spin and hype up walking like that.) as well as revamped the ship to ship combat and skills system, I'd venture to say that their population would more than double.

Arguably, it wouldn't be the same game, but it would certainly be a fun and engaging one.

If EVE had STO ship controls that would be sweet.

I hate point and click. They need to let people keymap turning!

Very nice article. Good to see that people start to realise and question if heavily instanced games like MMOs really are MMOs?

There is the famous saying: If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck.

Apply it, but reverse, to this game. It says it is a duck, but does it walk like a duck? Swim like a duck? And quack like a duck?

I dont think so, no.

However, as this artical pointed out, just one persistant zone where fleets could fight for control of starbases, for example, would go long ways to make this game feel like an MMO.

While I am enjoying the game (primarily as a diversion from other online games that I've grown weary of), I can't help but find myself constantly thinking of things that would make the experience more interesting.  Here are a few...feel free to add your own:

1. Achievements - This one kinda of requires a solid foundation of content before it's feasible.  Been to every sector?  Achievement.  Killed 1 each of Gorn, Klingon, Romulan, and Borg in ground combat?  Achievement.  Done it with your bare hands?  Achievement. 

2. Rare quests granted by rare item drops - Instead of looting yet another personal shield generator, how about a strange alien artifact that sets off an interesting quest chain?

3. Rare spawns: Klingon Aces, Notorious Villains, etc.

4. Ability to beam down to ANY large planet and at the very least have a random encounter generated.

5. Ability to beam down to special large planets and have it be like you dropped into Tabula Rasa.  In fact...BUY Tabula Rasa and implement it as the away team component to the game. 

6. I see a lot of trader ships lurking around various systems....why can't I have a cargo ship and haul goods from place to place to earn money a la every space sim in the last 20 years? 

There are so many ideas that SHOULD have been borrowed from other sources ...  and don't even get me started on ideas from TOS/TNG episodes...how about beaming down to a world of Chicago style gangsters?  Or having to cooperate with Mark Twain?  Or rescue a station from it holodeck gone awry. 

Sigh.

-- JWW  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

who | grep -i hottie | date | cd ~; uptime; unzip; head; touch; finger; mount; ramsize; gasp; yes; unmount; sleep

Originally posted by joelweisman

While I am enjoying the game (primarily as a diversion from other online games that I've grown weary of), I can't help but find myself constantly thinking of things that would make the experience more interesting.  Here are a few...feel free to add your own:

 

1. Achievements - This one kinda of requires a solid foundation of content before it's feasible.  Been to every sector?  Achievement.  Killed 1 each of Gorn, Klingon, Romulan, and Borg in ground combat?  Achievement.  Done it with your bare hands?  Achievement. 

2. Rare quests granted by rare item drops - Instead of looting yet another personal shield generator, how about a strange alien artifact that sets off an interesting quest chain?

3. Rare spawns: Klingon Aces, Notorious Villains, etc.

4. Ability to beam down to ANY large planet and at the very least have a random encounter generated.

5. Ability to beam down to special large planets and have it be like you dropped into Tabula Rasa.  In fact...BUY Tabula Rasa and implement it as the away team component to the game. 

6. I see a lot of trader ships lurking around various systems....why can't I have a cargo ship and haul goods from place to place to earn money a la every space sim in the last 20 years? 

There are so many ideas that SHOULD have been borrowed from other sources ...  and don't even get me started on ideas from TOS/TNG episodes...how about beaming down to a world of Chicago style gangsters?  Or having to cooperate with Mark Twain?  Or rescue a station from it holodeck gone awry. 

Sigh.

-- JWW  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

who | grep -i hottie | date | cd ~; uptime; unzip; head; touch; finger; mount; ramsize; gasp; yes; unmount; sleep

 

Nice ideas but please no holodeck stuff, it was the single most awful thing in Star Trek. I watch a space sci-fi to see space sci-fi stuff, not some cheap 1950 gangster story. Awful, terrible, hated every holodeck episode.

Originally posted by Yamota

Nice ideas but please no holodeck stuff, it was the single most awful thing in Star Trek. I watch a space sci-fi to see space sci-fi stuff, not some cheap 1950 gangster story. Awful, terrible, hated every holodeck episode.

I watched TNG to enjoy the cast and the story and space. I loved the concept of the holodeck.

Back to the article, nice review. i still can't imagine why they would make the first handful of levels such a grind just to finally choose your ship. They should have at least thrown in a few instances (since everything is an instance) where you played each ship a few times and then got to decide maybe via a simulator of some sort.

Okay - So I am going to come across as a complete schiz here but bear with me....
I am one of the Beta testers / Head starts / Life time subs players for STO and I am loving it on the one hand. Space is great and well rendered in a EVE / X style and flows well. The ground combat / events are okay - people seem responsive to noise / actions etc and things flow well and respawns seem balanced so far... Kit drops seem equal and not to un-balanced. Playing the beta and then the head start I thought it was a good idea to go for the life time sub based on the subs costs and how long I played SWG / WoW etc for before binning them. (Hell - I would still be playing SWG now if it weren't for the stupid CU upgrade !!!) . There were major problems on the beta and head start on logging in but these where acknowledged quickly and a plan put in place that seemed to improve it - And you expect teething probs on a beta - that's why it is called a beta !

However......

It is limited and has the feeling of a half finished game. The missions are repetitive and the dialogue doesn't seem to have any bearing on the game yet - Klingons aren't gaining space / sectors etc. The Borg just seem completely random and (To the best of my knowledge) no Romulans / Cardassians / Dominion etc so the story line doesn't seem to add anything.

I don't know about anyone else ('m in the UK BTW.) but I am now having a problem logging on as I can't get a retail copy as my online retailer didn't get enough of the pre-orders (Huh - go figure...... Ah Yes - I have XXXX pre-orders for you - So don't worry - just ship me 1/2 or 2/3 of these.). No online or retail shop seems to have any and Direct2Don't load can't take my order via credit card or Paypal as they need to check if I know I need to by a subscription to play before I can download (And I why would I want to down load it you muppets when I have it on my PC already !!!!! ) Just give me a KEY !!! How stupid is it that after launch you can't buy it direct from STO when they were quite happy to take my money for the Lifetime Sub offer ???
 

Feeling today is that it is just a grind out at the moment - Missions don't seem to affect the story line or power plays and are repetitive - Sometimes it Klingons, sometimes Gorn, Sometimes Nausiccans..... Oh Hum - Same ship - Different Name...

While the big defend the sectors are "okay" they are exciting for the first few times as people band together again there is no logic to them..... So you destroy enough to "Win" the combat but they then just hang around waiting for a re-set.... Why don't the balance leave to regroup elsewhere? Starbase 24 sucks for the same reason - Hang on - I did this yesterday and was told I won - So why is the battle still going on ???

(Anyone remember the old days of STFC III when someone set up a server and then we played it till someone painted it green / red or blue and then it was reset and you upgraded your ship and crew as you fought....)

The "Crafting" sucks as well - Its a grind and doesn't seem to offer anything that you can't get from battles or requisition - Either that or it isn't explained well enough.... (Where's my manual ??? - Oh - I didn't get one... I know – I’ll check the online one… Oh, Wait !!! – There isn't one really.)

I also feel that there isn't the scope for "proper" exploration.......(Maybe this coming???...) You’re stuck on a grid in sector space. You are stuck in a box on space "missions" (I accidently left my ship on full impulse once while I grabbed a drink as I was looking for anomalies and came back to it bumping on a invisible "Q-Net" –( it must have been as in space I can keep going forever - Right ?)) Planets seem to all have shields to stop stupid space captains crashing in to them as well as I bumped in to one trying to kill a Bird of Prey....... and StarFleet must have a really strict policy on beaming now as you can't run forever on the planet surface.

(Gene Roddenberry had three Golden Rules when submitting a script - 1. Starships must have two nacelles otherwise they looked "wrong" and special effects could cheat... 2. Don't mess with the timeline without good reason / explanation - If someone was dead then they were dead - Don't bring 'em back to life just cos it made a good story or they were a good actor and 3.. Anything you suggest must be at least theoretically possible - Dilithium Crystals became just that because someone pointed out that Lithium already existed and won't power a Starship - The script writer said he had heard it somewhere and lithium sounded a cool word....(Before anyone says it – Yes – I know I need to get out more.)

Anyone else bored of the constant "Loading....." tag each screen yet either

Uniforms look silly - I want to simply pick one of the series ones...???

Still buggy and crashes / does weird things in graphics or doesn't refresh targets properly.

Still has "Gold" spammers - When is someone going to write a filter to catch / stop before they start these guys???

It's wrong that people have maxed out in the first week (Jedi anyone ???)

Maybe I'm asking too much and maybe it shouldn't be called a MMORPG and maybe it needs more work but...

I'll still play it (In the absence of anything better or that does what I want.) but I am worried for its future.  "It's a Game, Jim - But not as we know it."
 

Originally posted by Breezeycouk

I also feel that there isn't the scope for "proper" exploration.......(Maybe this coming???...) You’re stuck on a grid in sector space. You are stuck in a box on space "missions" (I accidently left my ship on full impulse once while I grabbed a drink as I was looking for anomalies and came back to it bumping on a invisible "Q-Net" –( it must have been as in space I can keep going forever - Right ?)) Planets seem to all have shields to stop stupid space captains crashing in to them as well as I bumped in to one trying to kill a Bird of Prey....... and StarFleet must have a really strict policy on beaming now as you can't run forever on the planet surface.

(Gene Roddenberry had three Golden Rules when submitting a script - 1. Starships must have two nacelles otherwise they looked "wrong" and special effects could cheat... 2. Don't mess with the timeline without good reason / explanation - If someone was dead then they were dead - Don't bring 'em back to life just cos it made a good story or they were a good actor and 3.. Anything you suggest must be at least theoretically possible - Dilithium Crystals became just that because someone pointed out that Lithium already existed and won't power a Starship - The script writer said he had heard it somewhere and lithium sounded a cool word....(Before anyone says it – Yes – I know I need to get out more.)

Anyone else bored of the constant "Loading....." tag each screen yet either

 

Honestly, I believe that the Cryptic engine can't handle large zones. I'm not really sure what it was designed to be best at, but massive, seamless worlds ain't it. I only played CO for a few days, but it was the same way - small zones, lots of loading screens and instances. I think Cryptic made a serious mistake trying to shoe-horn the massive STO universe into a tiny zone engine - and Paramount made a mistake licensing their IP to Cryptic. There are probably many other types of games that the engine would work for, but exploring the vast "final frontier" seems less so when you get a loading screen every 2 minutes.

I do like the game. It is fun for what it is, but a total let-down for Star Trek. I'll keep playing, warts and all. It will probably get better. I'll try SW:TOR when it comes out and if it blows me away, probably leave. If not, guess I'm in STO for a while. It's a shame though. I think if they had used a massive world engine (like SWG) they could have had a WoW competitor on their hands.

Originally posted by Stradden

MMORPG.com columnist Scott Jennings has been playing Cryptic's Star Trek Online and today uses his article to talk about the game, pointing out the good, the bad and the ugly.

As I mentioned in an earlier column, I found my inner Trekker unable to resist Star Trek Online’s siren song. Yet it’s difficult to turn off the analytical game designer part of my brain, even when thinking up silly names for your starships, so an interesting topic for today’s column, I believe, is a look at how Star Trek Online shapes up as an MMO as opposed to an outlet for my nerd-Trekkery. I’ve been playing it for a little over a week now (achieving “Lt. Commander 6”, or level 16 out of 50 in other words), which while not enough to conclusively file a review is enough for a first look at some of what Cryptic is trying to accomplish with the game. So, unlike the earlier piece, which was more about me and what a sad, sad little Star Trek fan I am (and only slightly about raised expectations regarding beta programs), this is more a look at Star Trek Online as it stands on release.

Read STO - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.

Scott, scott, scott, scott, scott......

its glaringly obvious, you arent a writer.....

really...  im at a loss as what to say at this point.  i really wish i could post the finer points of why i disagree with your article.  but youve created a situation where i dont have to by directly linking to a directly competing mmo in eve online.

who is as we all know, one of the longest time, and oldest front page advertisers of this site.

now while it might have seemed like a good idea to contrast a sensationalist pun to color your article.  how could you not realize the journalistic ramifications of a large percentage of your readers, who are passionate about the mmorpg genre, seeing that link and immediately dismissing your entire article based on what appears to be obvious journalistic bias toward a site advertiser?

how could you not see this?

im actually embarassed for you.

It will probably turn out to be a decent game in about a years time, but as of now it's really not worth people's money. Even once they have ironed out the kinks and fleshed out the game it's still not going to be anything you haven't already seen before and the core mechanics will still be the same as they are now.

I've leveled to admiral twice now, once in the open beta as a Klingon and once in retail as Federation. The Klingon side shouldn't be in the game full stop, there is absolutely nothing for them to do other than requeue for the same map PvP matches that you've been doing since level 6, their PvE content is non existant, even all the way to admiral you are still doing the Kill X mobs quests that need to be repeated 3 times to get the reward, then you have to start it all over again as there are no other different ones.

Federation content stopped dead at 42 for me. Whilst not as bad as the Klingon side it is still pretty dire, all that are left to get you to the max level (currently 45 as they chopped off 5 lvls due to them not being finished) is to do the defense missions - see description of klingon pve content - or exploration. Exploration with their Genesis system is not all it's cracked up to be, randomly generated yes but from a finite number of missions simply set to different backgrounds, once youve done it in one setting youve seen them all. That and of course you can queue for the PvP for the last few levels, but that is horribly broken in tier 5 due to the exploiting of Carrier summons.

Unfinished and unready for release yet released it is. As a core game it is an ok one but still needs much work for it to be worthy of a subscription fee. Do yourselves a favour and stick by the advice that is normally given out at the launch of a new MMO, wait 6 - 12 months before even thinking of buying the game.

Im a huge StarTrek fan - but STO is something I will never touch.  The way Cryptic has gone about their buisness is something I will never support.

Since I have not really played the game I can not judge it really.   Let me tho say that alot of players are talking about the lack of exploration in the game.  Thats something that is a MUST in a STO game.  In fact it should be the KEY to the game. 

Star Trek: 25th Anniversary is still the one of the best games I have ever played.  It had space combat and alot of mission style gameplay (like the TV epesodes are built on).  I have always dreamed of an online StarTrek game with quite abit of random generated maps that have random generated missions and then random generated items (not drops) that you then return to a sience station - space station - or even leads you into another random generated map.  Or find some items or minerals that you can sell on diffrent worlds to make the most money.  The options could have been ENDLESS.

Sadly it seems like STO has turned into tank, dmg, healer type of game - instead of really going for what StarTrek is really all about.  And thats not combat...  Small part of it should be about combat.  But there are other means of dealing with things.  Thats what StarTrek has ALWAYS been about.

All I can say is the op is very much dead on about several things, and all these had been pointed out way so many times on these very forums

(1) Lack of Content  - Very True

(2) Combat well yes that too

(3) Crafting if you can call it that

(4) server stability  he he he omg, we all knew about this when oben beta went live. 

I just find it somewhat funny now were seing all the same stuff over again that had been pounded to death. To bad I don't have a dead horse picture to place somewhere.

As for the good, well customization of ships and character yes,  but that is not content.

Lets wait 6 months and see what the game looks like at that point

Originally posted by cerebrix

Originally posted by Stradden

MMORPG.com columnist Scott Jennings has been playing Cryptic's Star Trek Online and today uses his article to talk about the game, pointing out the good, the bad and the ugly.

As I mentioned in an earlier column, I found my inner Trekker unable to resist Star Trek Online’s siren song. Yet it’s difficult to turn off the analytical game designer part of my brain, even when thinking up silly names for your starships, so an interesting topic for today’s column, I believe, is a look at how Star Trek Online shapes up as an MMO as opposed to an outlet for my nerd-Trekkery. I’ve been playing it for a little over a week now (achieving “Lt. Commander 6”, or level 16 out of 50 in other words), which while not enough to conclusively file a review is enough for a first look at some of what Cryptic is trying to accomplish with the game. So, unlike the earlier piece, which was more about me and what a sad, sad little Star Trek fan I am (and only slightly about raised expectations regarding beta programs), this is more a look at Star Trek Online as it stands on release.

Read STO - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.

 

Scott, scott, scott, scott, scott......

 

its glaringly obvious, you arent a writer.....

 

really...  im at a loss as what to say at this point.  i really wish i could post the finer points of why i disagree with your article.  but youve created a situation where i dont have to by directly linking to a directly competing mmo in eve online.

 

who is as we all know, one of the longest time, and oldest front page advertisers of this site.

 

now while it might have seemed like a good idea to contrast a sensationalist pun to color your article.  how could you not realize the journalistic ramifications of a large percentage of your readers, who are passionate about the mmorpg genre, seeing that link and immediately dismissing your entire article based on what appears to be obvious journalistic bias toward a site advertiser?

 

how could you not see this?

 

im actually embarassed for you.

When I look at the front page of MMORPG.com I see STO advertisements not EvE. 

So... not sure a front page advertisement means they will be biased in favor of a game considering... STO is advertised on the front page currently lol. 

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Techleo

  Good article. In the end the game just seems to be missing the necessary interactivity to be a really good MMO. For instance the game takes the simplest path to tell stories. Instead of weighting the consequences of your actions your really just a puppet. Games such as Anarchy Online, UO , EvE and a few others make good use of the choice and consequences system. Take for instance the sequences we are told to disable klingons to save a diplomat. To my knowledge the Federation Crews often stunned there enemies before they killed them. They hailed ships to give them a chance to explain. This entire segment of ST Lore is missing and it seems such a shame to waste a mechanic such as this. 

  In anycase I'll keep playing the game for now. It has its good moments and it definitely has its share of bad ones. I actually am finding it extremely fun to write a captains log with the supplemental notes system. Sadly I tell a better story then the game does hehe.

 

I agree with this. Choices would go along way in making STO more of a ST game. Not everything should be about killing everyone. Diplomacy needs to be there as well as exploration.

As far as the MMO part. I agree that they dropped the ball here. I have no problem with the instances in sector space, missions, quests, PvP and spacedocs. There are too many players to open any of them up to everyone.

What I would have like to have seen is planets available to explore. Not just a small rectangle instance, but a large world with an expanded size to the instance. A place to meet and greet as in most MMO's. It would have been nice to see large open sector space that could take a long time to find anything. New planets with quests for some nice items as well as harvesting areas. This entire exploration sector should also be open PvP.

There is so much they could do to change this game in a more ST direction. More than just the eye candy and sounds from the IP. They have the cash with the $20 million bonus from Atari to develope loads of content and change things around. I just hope they do it. This game could be a huge cash cow for Cryptic if they get it right. It is a good foundation they have started with. I enjoy the combat as is, it is just content and a lack of choice.

Not really disagreeing, but I theorize that it had to do with something that was written in an earlier article about 'scope'.

I bet Cryptic decided, that to have a reasonable scope to their game, they could start with the sort of missions they have now, which are probably infinately easier than missions where there is a variety of choices.

I'm not sure I agree with that decision, I believe what you are describing probably should have been a top priority, as it would have set it apart from many other online games. However, to have a reasonable 'scope' what should they have eliminated from the existing game to meet their deadlines? Space combat? Ground missions? Star systems?

It'd be pretty tough to decide. And thus, I understand why free form missions weren't implemented. As it stands, it seems that they had a reasonable yet ambitious enough scope to produce a relatively polished game - which is kind of what the community has been asking for. But at the same time, we are now seeing the results of developers having to limit their scope in some areas  to appease the masses in others.

Originally posted by cerebrix 

now while it might have seemed like a good idea to contrast a sensationalist pun to color your article.  how could you not realize the journalistic ramifications of a large percentage of your readers, who are passionate about the mmorpg genre, seeing that link and immediately dismissing your entire article based on what appears to be obvious journalistic bias toward a site advertiser?

Considering that I actually work for an MMO company that runs neither STO nor Eve Online, I find the accusation that I'm shilling for a particular competitor somewhat amusing.

Originally posted by LumTheMad

Originally posted by cerebrix 

now while it might have seemed like a good idea to contrast a sensationalist pun to color your article.  how could you not realize the journalistic ramifications of a large percentage of your readers, who are passionate about the mmorpg genre, seeing that link and immediately dismissing your entire article based on what appears to be obvious journalistic bias toward a site advertiser?

Considering that I actually work for an MMO company that runs neither STO nor Eve Online, I find the accusation that I'm shilling for a particular competitor somewhat amusing.

read again scott.  im not saying that you are, read again.  the link hurts the integrity of your article.  

i realize half handed remarks that hint at something are the norm around here, so i dont take the reply personally.

however, in this, i was being literal.  posting that link without thinking about the consequences is kind of a "noob mistake" when it comes to writing.

i think thats a reasonable criticism dont you?

p.s.

ive worked for 2 mmo companies as well.  so trust me, i understand the perspective you might have far better than you might initially realize.

Originally posted by cerebrix

its glaringly obvious, you arent a writer.....

 

Right, he's a game designer.  I read his articles not because he's a good writer but because he has lots of objective insight into what is good about games and what is bad.

Edit to clarify: It's not that I think he's not a good writer, I do find his articles entertaining and the EVE Online link made me laugh because it's true.  It's just that I believe the best thing about his articles are the fact that he has so much experience in the industry.  He has insight to draw from that other writers do not.

Originally posted by cerebrix

Originally posted by LumTheMad

Originally posted by cerebrix 

now while it might have seemed like a good idea to contrast a sensationalist pun to color your article.  how could you not realize the journalistic ramifications of a large percentage of your readers, who are passionate about the mmorpg genre, seeing that link and immediately dismissing your entire article based on what appears to be obvious journalistic bias toward a site advertiser?

Considering that I actually work for an MMO company that runs neither STO nor Eve Online, I find the accusation that I'm shilling for a particular competitor somewhat amusing.

 

read again scott.  im not saying that you are, read again.  the link hurts the integrity of your article.  

 

i realize half handed remarks that hint at something are the norm around here, so i dont take the reply personally.

 

 

however, in this, i was being literal.  posting that link without thinking about the consequences is kind of a "noob mistake" when it comes to writing.

 

i think thats a reasonable criticism dont you?

 

p.s.

 

ive worked for 2 mmo companies as well.  so trust me, i understand the perspective you might have far better than you might initially realize.

I have an idea, drop the pretentious attitude and join the discussion. I'd rather not fine pick someone's writing decision and would rather discuss the content of the article. If your sense of journalistic integrity has really been so offended, PM him; you made your point and he responded. Let it go.

No one wants to read someone with no varifiable credentials go on and on with a high and mighty attitude critiquing his stylistic decisions - simply because you have a differing opinion of what constitutes good writing.

The "crafting" isn't anything of the sort. And the "energy tokens" is just "gold" by another name. Then there's the fact that your bridge crew doesn't actually DO anything, YOU drive your ship, YOU fire the weapons, YOU heal the ship. Whatever happened to your pilot, gunner, and engineering bridge crew? Are they just sitting on their butts and aren't capable of any independent thought of their own? Apparently. Not to mention that EVERY single mission you get is "go kill this", and "go kill that". Battle happened in Star Trek but it wasn't the whole bloody point of it like it is in this game.

I desperately wanted to like this game. Its one of the most famous titles in entertainment history, it SHOULD be good. It SHOULD be involving. Star Wars: The Old Republic's release date has been delayed so the devs can get it right. THIS game should have been delayed too.

Originally posted by cerebrix

Because, you know, comparing two internet spaceship games is terrible. Wouldn't want someone to give their opinions on games in a game review article.

Internet spaceships are serious business. Nice troll, though.