Originally posted by HeliosXII

The point is, they're now giving you something for free what they were originally intending on charging you for.

You should be thanking them, or at the very least acknowledging that it's the right thing for them to do.

Regardless of what you want to believe their motives are, doing this is the right move for them. You can call it an underhanded scheme to try and milk their oblivious customers for all their worth, but give them credit where credit is due FFS. I think they've at least earned that, with all the bending over backward they've done to appease the gluttonous, ungrateful masses that play their games.

People should be thanking them for doing what they should've done in the first place? I think not.

But, yeah, it looks like the expansion is similar to a Darkfall "expansion", i.e. very little content being called an expansion because it gets players much more excited. This is, at most, a patch. They have subsequently retconned it into an expansion to make it sound like they were selling an expansion pack, and not just a zone.

I hope their subs have dropped enough to teach them a lesson permanently, and I hope they stay that way if they plan on trying to pull another one of these.

Originally posted by HeliosXII

No, I don't. But I also don't believe it's as morally repugnant as you'd like us to believe. Whether it's what they should have done in the first place or not, it's something they didn't HAVE to do. They could have kept it as a paid expansion, but they didn't. They deserve credit for at least that. And yes, there are people out there who WOULD HAVE bought the expansion if they had decided to keep it a paid expansion.

If give all my money and worldly possessions away to charity is that a morally "good" action on my part? What if the only reason I gave them away was because someone had a gun to my head. Is it still a morally "good" action on my part?

I think it is good, for their players, that this expansion will be free but when you put this decision into context its not a "good" thing since no other MMO out there is charging money for "expansions" 6 months after release. At best their "good" action is "what every other MMO company has always done in the past" and that makes a difference.

If you or anyone else wants to support companies who have pricing schemes like Cryptic then that's your prerogative, but don't act surprised when other people start putting out "basic" MMOs and then charge you a subscription and 50 dollars twice a year for content expansions and 10 bucks for all the basic features you used to get standard with every other MMO on the market.

Originally posted by Darkholme

As much as I'd like to look at this through rose-coloured spectacles and think this is a first step towards Cryptic doing the right thing by their subscribers from now on... I kind of doubt it. At least the CO players get what they deserve in this particular case though. It really makes me sad that the industry has become what it is...

I agree. It is sad that people needed to rage on all public forums. Bad press articles. And tons of people /ragequiting.

That all this was needed, to make it clear to Cryptic that what they are doing is unethical, immoral. Just bad bussiness!

Seeing the state the game is in. How many people quit the first month already. Seeing what state STO is in right now.

Then they should have known from the start to release this update for free! As they can spin and hype it all they want. It's not an expansion!

It's just an update to fill a content gap in the level37-40 range, they created themselves with the XP nerf at launch.

Expansions are large update that actually expand the game. Add new features. That kind of stuff.  A content gap filler doesn't qualify.

Just look at Age of Conan for example. They have been releasing large free update after the other, for nearly 2 years now. To fill all the gaps.

What I do hope tho. Is that Cryptic really has gotten a wake up call and know what needs to be done with Star Trek Online. For FREE!

Altho seeing first hand in how a sorry state STO is in. (It's even worse then CO) So much stuff unfinished still. They'll have a hard time salvaging that. If they even plan to.

Cheers

Originally posted by HeliosXII

The point is, they're now giving you something for free what they were originally intending on charging you for.

 

You should be thanking them, or at the very least acknowledging that it's the right thing for them to do.

Regardless of what you want to believe their motives are, doing this is the right move for them. You can call it an underhanded scheme to try and milk their oblivious customers for all their worth, but give them credit where credit is due FFS. I think they've at least earned that, with all the bending over backward they've done to appease the gluttonous, ungrateful masses that play their games.

It sounds like you aren't aware of the history Cryptic has had with this game.  The reason people aren't singing hosannas about the change from a paid content filler zone to a free expansion is because of the way the Champions Online developers have behaved over the past year.  The Devs are the ones who've seemed ungrateful and gluttonous, violating their customers' good will over and over again.

CO tried to poach supergroup (guild) leaders from City of Heroes with offers of free closed beta access, then when they were caught the marketing guy basically said, "We didn't kill any babies, get over it."  No apology for violating CoH's terms of agreement and EULA or behaving like a creep.  Meanwhile, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of people on the CO forums eager to get into beta, and many of them weren't too happy about being passed over for more "high value" players.

Then come launch day and all the lifetime subscriptions are no longer for sale and what do they do?  Massive launch day nerf.  Surprise!  A ton of anger about that, because the game that went live was different from the game people had bought and played in the headstart.  At first they stuck by their "no refunds" policy until the outcry grew to rage levels (sound familiar?) and then Cryptic started refunding lifetime subs.

There have been other, more minor, affronts to the players' good will, until the Vibora Bay (aka Vibora Pay and VBay) announcement blew up in their faces.  When the CO community rep, Daeke, mentioned that it was going to be a paid expansion rather than a free update, players started getting mad all over again.  Especially considering the fact that there was a content gap between 37 and 40 due to the launch day nerf... and Vibora Bay wasn't a true expansion but rather a single zone which covered levels 37 to 40.

CO loves to compare itself to City of Heroes, so the players tend to do so, also.  When comparing the first year of both games, CO comes up lacking and the Devs really do so.  In the first year, City of Heroes had released 3 game updates that were genuinely massive, adding nearly 1/3 more area to the game world and 10 more levels.  By the time CoH had its first paid expansion 18 months after release, it was an entirely new stand-alone game: City of Villains.  An entire game that was every bit as large as CoH, with new classes and 50 levels.

Charging even a nominal fee for Vibora Bay was just a bad idea.  the fact that cryptic apparently fired Daeke as a token sacrifice just made them look all the meaner in their players' eyes.

Since this is a road Cryptic has been down frequently the past year, that's why you aren't seeing people greeting this news with anything more than guarded suspicion.  Frankly, they are right to do so.

Well if they continued with handing small content updates for a fee they would lose everything, maybe a couple fanboys would stay around but nothing to make them any more profit. I am glad CO is getting the update for free and hopefully the STO community gets their fixes/updates for free as well.

Seeing as this really isn't an expansion, I am curious on what Cryptic will do in the future. Probably eat their words again but only time will tell.

And people say whining does not work.

Originally posted by Yamota

And people say whining does not work.

I think it's more likely the amount of people that instantly hit the /CANCEL subscription button, that made them come around.

Not much point releasing a Paid content update, when there is no one around anymore.

As Cryptic pretty much never listens to any outcry anyway. Otherwise they would have isntantly rolled back that launchday patch.

Cheers

While some folks did cancel, all of them are still playing as their time hasn't run out yet. Now many of them have re-subbed. While the announcement is great, it was the other stuff that the are saying that really made us CO players feel good last night. That combined with the event Cryptic staff participated in on Friday, things are looking a bit better. like I said, Vibora bay was one of many concernes about the state of the game. It took all the attension but there were other major issues too. It seems that they have addressed all of them and that's why the CO boards are a much better place right now.

Wow, okay yeah they made mistakes but god damn, you got a small win, at least be like *Pat on the back* for Cryptic.

 It's like the poor son who's father beats him even when he tries.

 Give them a break at least over this.

Originally posted by HeliosXII

Amazing.

The phrase "damned if you do, damned if you don't" comes to mind.

Cryptic does something to please their customers, and something that pretty much every customer wanted, by making the expansion free and it still gets turned in to a negative.

This single zone is something that should have been added for free. It should have been free from the word go. It however was not there intention to release it for free. 

You will have to forgive some of us for not jumping for joy and giving praise to Cryptic for changing there minds and deciding not to screw it's players. There intention was to screw there player base, they decided not to after the massive amount of negativity that spread and even cost them STO life time sub sales. 

When they do something decent I will give them praise, but they do not get praise for trying to screw there players then deciding not to after it bit them in the arse. 

Thats like that stupid joke. 

Guy A: Hey, I just saved your life so you owe me.

Guy B: How did you save my life. 

Guy A: I thought about killing you but decided not to, so I saved your life. 

 I think everyone has a right to be skeptical where this is concerned. Rest assured, this is not because of whining. Some of you don't know what whining is and label everything that isn't sycophantic and blindly positive as such.

It's a small victory and definitely not something that was done out of some magnanimous change of heart. I hope this shows some of you what we the consumers can accomplish if we stand against questionable business practices.

Here's hoping that enough of us stand firm and let Cryptic know that it isn't enough to just do what you should have done in the first place. I for one, think they need to change their whole strategy. This double dipping cash shop crap needs to go, and I won't support Cryptic in any shape, form, or fashion until/unless it goes.

I've read the arguments supporting it or condoning it, and they don't hold much water to me. I'm not interested in derailing this thread to discuss it either, so if you want to gripe about my post, PM me or start another thread.

Personally I am very happy this zone is free.  I'd probably have bought it but it really made me wonder how many others would have. 

Just to make sure eveyone understands - we actually know very little about what they were going to charge us for in the Vibora Bay adventure pack.  We know that it was a zone for levels 37-40, they were going to charge for it and that's about it.  Now we have some pictures but not much more.  The latest state of the game post made refenence to additional powers (Tier4) may be released at the same time as well.  We don't know if they were intended to be something bought in the adventure pack as well.

My hope is that they will either continue to release free adventure packs or make them so massive to warrant a fee that everyone sees the value in buying.  Time will tell.

I've had a few people PM me their email address in the last few days to ask for a trial since this annoucement so I can see a more postive outlook for the game for the time being.

Were they really surprised at the uproar, did they really believe the content they offered in CO to date was enough to see the next major tranch as chargeble.......

In the end a u-turn was inevitable. Its just a continuation of the pattern from alpha onwards - there was never remotely enough content to justify release, not for one play through, let alone multiple times (as sucha game has to encourage). Critically what there is is painfully lacking in mechanical variety and purpose, the differing zones also fail to offer any game variety or story involvement  and it's difficult, if not impossible, to see anything in 'Revelation' that has any hope of changing this. Its not the PR guys you need to be changing its the entire design philosophy and bias behind this product.
 

I would not have bought this zone.  For me it isn’t the money, it is the fact that the game is SO bare bones on content anyway.  Once they get some more content and fix bugs/powers I would be more than willing to buy an expansion.  I think it was a terrible move to try and charge their customer base for this even if it had the content of other expansions.  There really is only one leveling path to max level so after your first character you have seen everything.  Games like this (in my opinion) have longevity because of replay valve (alts).  I think they will be golden if they can add more leveling paths and add some content for the content lite level ranges.

Originally posted by HeliosXII

The point is, they're now giving you something for free what they were originally intending on charging you for.

 You should be thanking them, or at the very least acknowledging that it's the right thing for them to do.

Regardless of what you want to believe their motives are, doing this is the right move for them. You can call it an underhanded scheme to try and milk their oblivious customers for all their worth, but give them credit where credit is due FFS. I think they've at least earned that, with all the bending over backward they've done to appease the gluttonous, ungrateful masses that play their games.

The problem is that they didn't realize this was going to happen from the start.

Note: if you ever look back at my post history from Launch to Dec, I have defended the company and the title.  I still like the game.

* I have no problem with them charging subs.
* I had little problem with microtrans for many of the things they placed in the CStore.
* When they now were going to charge me another box fee for content that should have been there in the first place... well it's time to check out.

They knew how mad the player base was over the spartan content.  They hyped the January content update as the next big thing.  This should not have come as a surprise and if they were not ready for the cancellation hit, then they are idiots.

I'm done with them for some time.  As I said, I like the game.  However, another year or so will be telling to see how things have fared.  Perhaps if enough has been added to the game to address the launch shortcomings, then I'll re-up.

A nice victory for the community. Glad to see Cryptic has an iota of logic within their management.

Who knows, maybe I'll jump back onto CO once I see how this all pans out.

I take my hat off to Cryptic....for now ^^

I hope enough people stave off going back, to be honest.

Hell, the game is crappier than CoH, anyway.

Originally posted by Devour

I hope enough people stave off going back, to be honest.

Hell, the game is crappier than CoH, anyway.

See this I never got.  While I won't be going back, I hope they figure things out and get a thriving community going again.  If CO wasn't around, then perhaps we don't see the CoX expansion.  Either way, there are a lot of people who like CO and wishing their game to fail is kind of mean spirited.

Originally posted by bstripp

Originally posted by Devour

I hope enough people stave off going back, to be honest.

Hell, the game is crappier than CoH, anyway.

 

See this I never got.  While I won't be going back, I hope they figure things out and get a thriving community going again.  If CO wasn't around, then perhaps we don't see the CoX expansion.  Either way, there are a lot of people who like CO and wishing their game to fail is kind of mean spirited.

Nobody should have their game taken away from them.

It'll be interesting to see if there's any fallout once Revelation is finally released.

I say this because, given it was supposed to be a paid expansion, you would expect there to be lots of content.  If it's shallow, I'm sure people will gripe and say "You were going to charge us just for this?!?!?!1!!!eleven"....if Cryptic moves anything over to the C-store to still make a few bucks, that could be even more inflammatory.

Cryptic isn't out of the woods yet....