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Jita (General)  » Providence is burning

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62 posts found
  batolemaeus

Pod Killer

Joined: 9/27/07
Posts: 2040

2/08/10 5:27:10 PM#21


Originally posted by Xennith
The agreement between CVA and the Goons/PL/NC is just a sideline, this war is happening because CVA invaded AAA, and refused the truce offered.

You really do believe anything you read on a forum, don't you?
The goon/cva thing was admittedly some rather fun fud, and the usual suspects took the bait. I didn't think anyone seriously believed that..

Also, ccp isn't favouring anyone. They're just really incompetent at anything 0.0 and don't give a damn.

  Xennith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 1264

2/08/10 5:40:46 PM#22

Hence the reason that I said it was just a sideline...

 

Seriously, CCP Atlas swung the fight for UK and AAA? Not the CVA FC deciding to jump out, then jump back into a system with around 900 people in it?

  hoppy87

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 29

2/08/10 5:50:44 PM#23
Originally posted by Xennith

Hence the reason that I said it was just a sideline...

 

Seriously, CCP Atlas swung the fight for UK and AAA? Not the CVA FC deciding to jump out, then jump back into a system with around 900 people in it?

 

what would have been the result had the node crashed instead of being artificially kept alive? those caps wouldnt have been dead, and would have been able to fight another day. CCP atlas gave you the advantage, then allowed you to exploit bugs while he watched and giggled gleefully.  so yeah, CCP handed you victory on a silver platter and has been tryin to conver up and walk back that fact since he let it slip.

  Xennith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/06
Posts: 1264

2/08/10 6:11:43 PM#24

I can understand your frustration at losing a capfleet like that, but claiming theres a big conspiracy by CCP to give us our old space back is a bit odd. The fight for D-G was lost as soon as the caps jumped out, jumping them back in was a mistake by the FC, not some crazily convoluted plan.

  hoppy87

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 29

2/08/10 6:26:52 PM#25
Originally posted by Xennith

I can understand your frustration at losing a capfleet like that, but claiming theres a big conspiracy by CCP to give us our old space back is a bit odd. The fight for D-G was lost as soon as the caps jumped out, jumping them back in was a mistake by the FC, not some crazily convoluted plan.

 

DG probably was lost. however CCP's actions on that night, and refusal to make things right, has led to 9uy being uncontested and what else?  they handed you that, and subsequent fights. how is that not biased?

 

and if CCP wasnt tryin to cover something up why are they going to such great lengths to change the story they originally put out? their actions went from such as to make a system admin faint, to oh, it was only a bug fix we didnt really do anything...

 

 

 

 

  nurgles

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/07
Posts: 841

2/08/10 7:15:10 PM#26


Originally posted by hoppy87

DG probably was lost. however CCP's actions on that night, and refusal to make things right, has led to 9uy being uncontested and what else?  they handed you that, and subsequent fights. how is that not biased?



A Word from Customer Support

Support's intervention in large fleet engagements in even a remotely fair manner is very problematic due to the complexity of the situation.

Under circumstances where lag is involved or elusive bugs that are difficult to establish as the deciding factor, CCP cannot justify passing judgment on who should have won or who should have lost. While a problem such as the one in focus here is known to affect some players in certain situations, the evidence available in server-side logs, when available at all, can be haphazard and arbitrary. As such, intervention on CCP's part would risk being arbitrary as well.

What this means is that CCP will not be granting reimbursement for fleet fight losses.

Please understand that fleet fight reimbursement has always been very controversial and few issues have been discussed and argued in more detail within CCP. The conclusion has, however, always been to leave fleet battles alone rather than reimbursing them as a whole. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and we appreciate your patience as we work diligently towards resolving this issue.


CCP do not have the ability to sort out what ifs and might have beens. As such they have a blanket policy that requires fleet commanders to work within the limits of the game technology. This means that when a bad call is made by a commander and it subsequently wipes out their ships due to an unreasonable expectation of the game or simply due to a lack of knowledge, it is the fleet commanders problem.

We deployed the bulk of our fleet hours before the timers as we know the problems that had been happening since the dominion expansion. You guys jumped in your caps at the 11th hour then showed your inexperience warping to the pos without passwords. Then made the grievous error of jumping out of system again which was compounded by choosing to return to the field when the system was getting serious lag.

There are numerous stages that your commander could have stopped the loss of that capital fleet.

Blaming CCP for his poor judgment, lack of experience and your fleets lack of discipline is simple self delusion so that you can avoid any responsibility on your part.

  hoppy87

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 29

2/08/10 7:28:34 PM#27
Originally posted by nurgles

 


Originally posted by hoppy87

 

DG probably was lost. however CCP's actions on that night, and refusal to make things right, has led to 9uy being uncontested and what else?  they handed you that, and subsequent fights. how is that not biased?


 

 


A Word from Customer Support

 

Support's intervention in large fleet engagements in even a remotely fair manner is very problematic due to the complexity of the situation.

Under circumstances where lag is involved or elusive bugs that are difficult to establish as the deciding factor, CCP cannot justify passing judgment on who should have won or who should have lost. While a problem such as the one in focus here is known to affect some players in certain situations, the evidence available in server-side logs, when available at all, can be haphazard and arbitrary. As such, intervention on CCP's part would risk being arbitrary as well.

What this means is that CCP will not be granting reimbursement for fleet fight losses.

Please understand that fleet fight reimbursement has always been very controversial and few issues have been discussed and argued in more detail within CCP. The conclusion has, however, always been to leave fleet battles alone rather than reimbursing them as a whole. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and we appreciate your patience as we work diligently towards resolving this issue.


 

CCP do not have the ability to sort out what ifs and might have beens. As such they have a blanket policy that requires fleet commanders to work within the limits of the game technology.

 

 

how is a fleet commander sposed to know that CCP is actively tinkering with the system? or that ships will actually show on grid over an hour after the fleet logged off? and yes, people in system at the time of the cap deaths called out on comms when the cap fleet showed up and began to be attacked, and it was over an hour after all cap pilots had logged.  CCP's intentions *may* have been good, but there lies the road to hell.

 

  qazyman

Gurista

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 1790

A Good Sandbox isn't about your characters abilities. It's about the players ability.

2/08/10 8:41:46 PM#28

Never fly a ship you can't afford to lose, and never expect a fair fight......hmmmm. Where have I heard that ?

  batolemaeus

Pod Killer

Joined: 9/27/07
Posts: 2040

2/08/10 8:54:51 PM#29


Originally posted by nurgles
CCP do not have the ability to sort out what ifs and might have beens. As such they have a blanket policy that requires fleet commanders to work within the limits of the game technology. This means that when a bad call is made by a commander and it subsequently wipes out their ships due to an unreasonable expectation of the game or simply due to a lack of knowledge, it is the fleet commanders problem.


You're happy you had a one sided slaughter. Understandable. However, stop and think for a minute and imagine what would happen if you lost a truckload of capitals that stayed in system hours after their pilots logged off.

Yes, i know you're ignoring this. You're trying to spin and spin to make it seem like everything is working fine and well. If you had lost, there would be pages of whine on this forum like in other instances when lag didn't work in your favour.

CCP created a policy so they didn't have to offer support for their fuckups. They screwed up in several cases but do not want to take responsibility for it. How people can support this is unbelievable..

  cosy

Newshound

Joined: 9/15/04
Posts: 3306

EvE Rules #491 you should never, ever attack Russians on winter months

2/09/10 5:09:05 AM#30
Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

 How people can support this is unbelievable.


just make pvp if they pay u for that (merc) and retire in low sec Veto is a good option

 

PD:EvEisNot4WoWkids
BestSigEver :P

  nurgles

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/07
Posts: 841

2/09/10 5:44:55 AM#31


Originally posted by hoppy87

how is a fleet commander sposed to know that CCP is actively tinkering with the system?



Battle in D-GTMI (Providence), 28-01-2010 (14:05 - 12:53)


28/01/2010
EVE Online Dominion 1.1.1 has been deployed

So the facts, since the Dominion expansion the lag in large fleet battles had gotten worse. Every day the log in message was, if you are planning a fleet battle contact CCP so that we can tinker with the system your fight is in. The final battle for D-GTMI was on a patch day. CCP had been calling for stress testers on the test server all that week.

Maybe one of these facts might have given the fleet commander pause for thought.

  nurgles

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/07
Posts: 841

2/09/10 6:02:34 AM#32


Originally posted by batolemaeus

Yes, i know you're ignoring this. You're trying to spin and spin to make it seem like everything is working fine and well. If you had lost, there would be pages of whine on this forum like in other instances when lag didn't work in your favour.


You do not know me but you call me a hypocrite without evidence. I have lost plenty of ships in fleet engagements outside my control. I don't see a point in whining about lost pixels. I take exception to people blaming a conspiracy instead of looking at the poor decisions that were made by their executive.

I lernt one thing at the fall of Unity, you have to play the game within the game mechanic even if it is broken. This is not the game I want to play, we lost Unity station without a face to face fight, it was won by CVA with POS spamming just before it was declared an exploit.

I am not going to spin that the D-GTMI was fair, or fun. I would have loved for CVA to have been able to re-deploy their cap fleet, or simply have been able to shoot back. I want to be siege green cap fleet against another siege green cap fleet. They were outnumbered and we had a substantial super-carrier(just boosted that day) and titan advantage, so i am sure they would have lost the battle, but it would not have been the disappointing rout that it was.

Unfortunately, this is the game we are given, limited by the rules and the available technology.

Do you really want CCP to open up the reimbursement policy? This will simply lead to people deploying with the intent of loosing ships due to lag/ghosting. It will become the new warfare without cost.

CCP love CVA, they really do, look at how quickly they responded after the loss of sov. Everyone also sees the work that has been done to make the largest area of NRDS in the game and respects that effort. I am actually saddened to see my goals be fulfilled, watching CVA and the proviblock fail cascade is just disappointing. It seems such a pity that the providence block was shown to be that fragile.

  Typhado

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/09
Posts: 177

I don't think you know what I thought you think I did.

2/09/10 6:18:44 AM#33

didn't CVA recently have a hack attack where someone disbanded their entire alliance? didn't CCP then fix this despite similar claims of hacking in the bob case (though bob couldn't confirm).

 

And now you claim there is a ccp conspiracy to bring about the downfall of CVA???

 

/tinfoil

Into the breach meatbags

  qazyman

Gurista

Joined: 10/04/06
Posts: 1790

A Good Sandbox isn't about your characters abilities. It's about the players ability.

2/09/10 6:22:34 AM#34
Originally posted by nurgles

 

Do you really want CCP to open up the reimbursement policy? This will simply lead to people deploying with the intent of loosing ships due to lag/ghosting. It will become the new warfare without cost.

CCP love CVA, they really do, look at how quickly they responded after the loss of sov. Everyone also sees the work that has been done to make the largest area of NRDS in the game and respects that effort. I am actually saddened to see my goals be fulfilled, watching CVA and the proviblock fail cascade is just disappointing. It seems such a pity that the providence block was shown to be that fragile.


 

I also think CCP has really dropped the ball, and I'm not talking about this one incident.

  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/09/10 7:32:00 AM#35
Originally posted by nurgles

 

 

 

 

 


 

So the facts, since the Dominion expansion the lag in large fleet battles had gotten worse. Every day the log in message was, if you are planning a fleet battle contact CCP so that we can tinker with the system your fight is in. The final battle for D-GTMI was on a patch day. CCP had been calling for stress testers on the test server all that week.

Maybe one of these facts might have given the fleet commander pause for thought.

 

 

The fleet notification message has been posted to the MOTD and listed in the newsletter on and off for the past two years that I know of. The system itself has been in place for years, though.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
2/09/10 7:44:18 AM#36

Nothing lasts forever.

  RavingRabbid

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/09
Posts: 1133

Remember Rabbids cant play MMO's, but they can dance!

2/09/10 10:10:14 AM#37

To me the all in all is that CCP gave BOB some very valuable blurprints and many of CCP's personel were in BOB. So anything is possible. grudges can last a while especially with what Goons did to BOB. CCP imo should not be allowing thier employees to play the game at all as it can cause future problems or consipacies theories to exist. It doesnt matter what speculation may exist on which side CCp is on at any given moment. The problems in Providence are a great example of this.

Ive lost a few ships defending Providence and do not agree with agressive stance in catch areas. I have not joined any fleets going into catch.

Life in Eve is a female dog! LOL

(BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH raises plunger in salute to Hot Khanid chicks!)

All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: SWTOR, Marvel Heroes and WOT.

  Slysar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/06
Posts: 17

 
OP  2/09/10 12:16:06 PM#38
Originally posted by RavingRabbid

To me the all in all is that CCP gave BOB some very valuable blurprints and many of CCP's personel were in BOB. So anything is possible. grudges can last a while especially with what Goons did to BOB. CCP imo should not be allowing thier employees to play the game at all as it can cause future problems or consipacies theories to exist. It doesnt matter what speculation may exist on which side CCp is on at any given moment. The problems in Providence are a great example of this.

Ive lost a few ships defending Providence and do not agree with agressive stance in catch areas. I have not joined any fleets going into catch.

Life in Eve is a female dog! LOL

(BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH raises plunger in salute to Hot Khanid chicks!)

 

Players of EVE still have not forgotten CCP... We have not forgotten that CCP players cheated legit players by giving their corps BPOs and other valuable things not available to the general public. True it has been many years since this occurred but we have not forgotten. You did the right thing by removing the offense including all your employee characters (that the public knew about openly) and I personally forgive but... time has not removed the stain completely.

  You're not doing so bad though CCP, keep your chin up and remember to make honor a way of life in the universe.

  hoppy87

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 29

2/09/10 1:52:40 PM#39

its also amazing that its starting to come to light that in every instance where the gridlock bug has really shown itself -a- has benefitted from it.

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3213

"A very special kind of stupidity"

2/09/10 4:59:10 PM#40
Originally posted by hoppy87

its also amazing that its starting to come to light that in every instance where the gridlock bug has really shown itself -a- has benefitted from it.

 

Yes, one might almost conclude that the -A- FCs have the faintest idea of what the fuck they're doing.

There are a number of things that one can do to mititgate the effects of lag on big fleet actions. -A- & co did them; Provibloc largely didn't. -A- "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage in much the same way that a student who revises his material before an exam has an advantage over one who doesn't.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

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