I have the same feeling as you OP. I quit the game b/c it looked like it was going nowhere. But i really miss it and i want to play it lol.  It is the best PvE oriented MMO out there.

Originally posted by boojiboy

The game is not dead and they will not pull the plug.  But unfortunately, investment in this game will be minimal going forward.

Just a few months ago you were talking about how vanguard was growing. 

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

I absolutely loved playing VG.  It has the best party dungeon crawls of any MMO I've played.  The only reason I stopped playing was due to the difficulty in finding groups due to the low population and my belief that Sony has no intention of actually supporting and growing the game.
 

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

 

Thillian

I had pretty nice moments in Vanguard, but what you said is very questionable.

AION  has a LOT of crawded servers, the game is a success.

LotRo has a nice number of healthy servers.

DDO and War had major population issues.

Age of Conan recovered, the same did not really happened with Vanguard.

Vanguard population loss was much more considerable and fast ... to tell te truth we can't even say AION and LotRo had a real issue with retention, they are successful games.

Your statistics claims are not even accurate and reflect much more your personal impression than anything. What happened with Vanguard was indeed disastrous.

 

 

My statistics claim are directly taken from x-fire. You either believe x-fire figures or not but calling it a fabrication from my side is a bit silly, especially when you can take a look by yourself anytime you want.

I didn't say the x-fire numbers you used are fabricated, your conclusion upon them is too simplistic and only show your personal impressions.

With or without x-fire numbers AION and Age of Conan are getting expansions and huge updates, LotRo and AION are both successful games.

What is silly is to compare the retention of Vanguard with Lotro and AION when both game have several populated server and Vanguard was not able to hold ONE healthy server and it doesn't matter how you "play" with x-fire numbers it will not change it. The "failure" of Vanguard is not comparable with the lack of a more significant success of another games.

Anyway, as I said before, Vangard will not grow and doen't has the polish, content or updates of another games with monthly fees, but if you want just some good experiences in a explorable game Vanguard can generate that.

...

It seems that they are attempting to shift the end game focus away from raiding and back to group content, at least for the forseeable future.  This week a new (magi hold revamped to high level) group dungeon will be patched to test server and presumably will go live by next week.  Revamp of hillsbury is planned for sometime later this year, and there is also new craft and diplo content planned for sometime soonish.

Originally posted by svann

It seems that they are attempting to shift the end game focus away from raiding and back to group content, at least for the forseeable future.  This week a new (magi hold revamped to high level) group dungeon will be patched to test server and presumably will go live by next week.  Revamp of hillsbury is planned for sometime later this year, and there is also new craft and diplo content planned for sometime soonish.

Svann, c'mon.  There is no way magi hold is going live within a week.  Or if it does, it will be so full of bugs.  Stat tabs sat on test for 7-8 weeks and riddled with bugs.  Hilsbury was tested and completed in early October and just waiting on the lead (absentee) dev to get off his EQ project so he can itemize it. 

Though its great to see the devs attempting to live up their promise, I doubt the first chapter of Magi Hold is pushed live till late-Feb to early March.

bought the game, subscribed, tried real hard to like it

it's dead for me

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by winter

Originally posted by Thillian

Everybody keep bringing up the retention crap. What a NONSENSE.
 

Go to xfire.

Aion has lost retention around 80% after a few months. (from peak 80k hours played to around 17k now). Xfire shows trends, and shows it quite accurately.

• Age of Conan lost 90%
• WAR 95%
• Lotro 85%
• DDO 95%

etc

Name me a game other than WoW/EVE that would retain even 50% of its customers since release. THERE IS NONE.

Vanguard sold barely around 200.000 copies worldwide during first months of release. Age of Conan, WAR, Aion, Lotro,.. all sold over 500 - 1k milion. Talking about retention? Get your facts right first.

 So your saying Vanguard has retained more then 10% of those 200k players that tried it (and thats only counting the first 2 months or so not any that tried it after that?) Funny you don't list Vanguards retention with those others.  Or oh wait its seem I did get my facts straight and you know it.

 

Woah, you missed my point by miles.

No, I meant, Vanguard retention is nothing unusual. 9 games out of 10 coming out last years, have the same crap retention. Every games go high first weeks, and then drop by 80-90% during the next months. Every game except EVE, WoW.

That magical word "retention" means nothing and says nothing about the quality of the game. Thanks god for that. It just shows the customers are not really interested to invest in the same game for a long time. It shows market preference changes greatly and rapidly, and that's why we see games like STO with mediocre gameplay, huge IP, lifetime offer, which obviously relies on high first sales and no retention.

EVE was a game that started out low and built itself into something way better because they improved it!  Like they need to do with Vanguard instead of ruin it!

Originally posted by Hoobley

Over the past few days I've had quite serious cravings for Vanguard again.

 

To play I'd have to download the entire client again and all that.

 

I've said in some other threads recently that the reason I'm not playing is because I don't have faith that the game will last.

 

Someone either stop me or tell me that it's worth the time investment. 

Any time you are doing something that is fun and ejoyable then it is wortth the time and investment.

NONE of these games are permanent. You get nothing for your participation except for the enjoyment of it. You dont' get a plaque or medal or money or real recognition.

At any time a game company can pull the rug out from under you or change the rules on you.

So the only reason you should play these games is to enjoy them for the time they are there. I keep a Vanguard account for when I want a small bit of what Vanguard has to offer. Also, it is one of the few games that offers a huge world for exploration. I don't requre a guarantee from the company that it is going to be around in a year or two or five. I play it now for the enjoyment I get now. 

Originally posted by Death1942

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

 

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

Actually ..when I stopped Vanguard about 8 months ago...I liked the fact that players weren't crawling about like ants on a dead squirrel carcass. It made it special when you ran into another player  while exploring it's vast world. ..(one thing that is not enjoyable most times...imo...is to play a game where every area is  glutted with players. Thousands of "Heros" running throughout  the cities and countrysides). At the same time...I never had a problem finding players with which to group.  I left the game only because there are too many damn mmos around  that I actually enjoy . I had to discontinue playing some of them  based on finances...Vanguard got the cut.

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Death1942

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

 

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

 

Actually ..when I stopped Vanguard about 8 months ago...I liked the fact that players weren't crawling about like ants on a dead squirrel carcass. It made it special when you ran into another player  while exploring it's vast world. ..(one thing that is not enjoyable most times...imo...is to play a game where every area is  glutted with players. Thousands of "Heros" running throughout  the cities and countrysides). At the same time...I never had a problem finding players with which to group.  I left the game only because there are too many damn mmos around  that I actually enjoy . I had to discontinue playing some of them  based on finances...Vanguard got the cut.

 

 

I have to agree with you there. Vanguard, possibly due to the huge world and possibly due to the fact that it doesn't have tons of players, feels like a real world (within a game context) over other games.

One of the reasons I don't think mmo's work is that they ALL feel theme park to me. Regardless of people's proclivities when it comes to Sand box or Theme Park, these games have players all running around higgledy Piggledy, doing their own thing but making the game world into one big disney land.

Don't get me wrong, I like life in these games but I want to be able to head out over a field without fighting a mob every 20 feet or seeing players dancing and dueling in every square inch of the game world.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Death1942

Vanguard has more than 10% of that Original 200k playing.

 

That doesn't change the fact that the game is so huge and thus seems devoid of life.

 

tbh i would say avoid the game only because once you go through that awesome journey (easily one of the best) the endgame sucks because they cut devs too early and they aren't making an effort to flesh it out anymore.

 

Actually ..when I stopped Vanguard about 8 months ago...I liked the fact that players weren't crawling about like ants on a dead squirrel carcass. It made it special when you ran into another player  while exploring it's vast world. ..(one thing that is not enjoyable most times...imo...is to play a game where every area is  glutted with players. Thousands of "Heros" running throughout  the cities and countrysides). At the same time...I never had a problem finding players with which to group.  I left the game only because there are too many damn mmos around  that I actually enjoy . I had to discontinue playing some of them  based on finances...Vanguard got the cut.

 

 

 

I have to agree with you there. Vanguard, possibly due to the huge world and possibly due to the fact that it doesn't have tons of players, feels like a real world (within a game context) over other games.

One of the reasons I don't think mmo's work is that they ALL feel theme park to me. Regardless of people's proclivities when it comes to Sand box or Theme Park, these games have players all running around higgledy Piggledy, doing their own thing but making the game world into one big disney land.

Don't get me wrong, I like life in these games but I want to be able to head out over a field without fighting a mob every 20 feet or seeing players dancing and dueling in every square inch of the game world.

 

I agree here, I hate the safari park thing of mobs standing around in a field heh.

I also could care less if i saw another player all day... being able to group though is essential to me in a mmo and unlike Bar I had real issues in VG doing that.

I would still be playing today (maybe... well, if SOE actually supported it as well maybe) if I could find people to actually do the stuff I needed to do.

 If we are going to use Xfire as a resource, which is a good idea, here are some numbers to consider:

Average Xfire users playing per day. Keep in mind that not every person that plays a game, uses Xfire.

Aion:  3,830

LOTRO:  1,510

Age of Conan:  646 

Anarchy Online:  61 (came out years before Vanguard and 300% more players on Xfire)

WoW:  57,130 (disgusting, good game, but man, what a beast to ever possibly topple; only Blizzard will be able to kill WoW)

Warhammer:  611 (impressive numbers, I think the pvp keeps em coming back)

Everquest: 67 (grand daddy of em all, still 300% more than Vanguard years after release)

Everquest II:  263 (decent numbers but expected higher)

Vanguard:  21 (ouch)

EVE:  3,379 (not surprised at all; fantastic game with good devs)

Dark Age of Camelot: 97 (totally was surprised by this, but not really--an awesome game)

Champions Online:  129 (downward spiral for sure; is suspect due to lack of depth)

These numbers help put it in to perspective for me. I too was considering a return to Vanguard. But if SOE won't take the game seriously and invest its time, why should I?

Originally posted by exilio

 If we are going to use Xfire as a resource, which is a good idea, here are some numbers to consider:

Average Xfire users playing per day. Keep in mind that not every person that plays a game, uses Xfire.

 

Aion:  3,830

LOTRO:  1,510

Age of Conan:  646 

Anarchy Online:  61 (came out years before Vanguard and 300% more players on Xfire)

WoW:  57,130 (disgusting, good game, but man, what a beast to ever possibly topple; only Blizzard will be able to kill WoW)

Warhammer:  611 (impressive numbers, I think the pvp keeps em coming back)

Everquest: 67 (grand daddy of em all, still 300% more than Vanguard years after release)

Everquest II:  263 (decent numbers but expected higher)

Vanguard:  21 (ouch)

EVE:  3,379 (not surprised at all; fantastic game with good devs)

Dark Age of Camelot: 97 (totally was surprised by this, but not really--an awesome game)

Champions Online:  129 (downward spiral for sure; is suspect due to lack of depth)

 

These numbers help put it in to perspective for me. I too was considering a return to Vanguard. But if SOE won't take the game seriously and invest its time, why should I?

 

I'm not sure what your point in publishing these numbers is... that not many people play VG? If so, I don't think any of us needed Xfire to tell us that. It's pretty common knowledge lol

LotR scored lower then I thought it would though, and AoC a lot higher, and the fact that WAR destroys CO speaks volumes for Cryptics game design model.

But yes, on your last sentence, ofc your right. Most PvEers that VG is originally designed for want a game they can invest in, maybe in terms of years, and SOE's criminal lack of support for the game dosent encourage that.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by exilio

 If we are going to use Xfire as a resource, which is a good idea, here are some numbers to consider:

Average Xfire users playing per day. Keep in mind that not every person that plays a game, uses Xfire.

 

Aion:  3,830

LOTRO:  1,510

Age of Conan:  646 

Anarchy Online:  61 (came out years before Vanguard and 300% more players on Xfire)

WoW:  57,130 (disgusting, good game, but man, what a beast to ever possibly topple; only Blizzard will be able to kill WoW)

Warhammer:  611 (impressive numbers, I think the pvp keeps em coming back)

Everquest: 67 (grand daddy of em all, still 300% more than Vanguard years after release)

Everquest II:  263 (decent numbers but expected higher)

Vanguard:  21 (ouch)

EVE:  3,379 (not surprised at all; fantastic game with good devs)

Dark Age of Camelot: 97 (totally was surprised by this, but not really--an awesome game)

Champions Online:  129 (downward spiral for sure; is suspect due to lack of depth)

 

These numbers help put it in to perspective for me. I too was considering a return to Vanguard. But if SOE won't take the game seriously and invest its time, why should I?

 

 

I'm not sure what your point in publishing these numbers is... that not many people play VG? If so, I don't think any of us needed Xfire to tell us that. It's pretty common knowledge lol

LotR scored lower then I thought it would though, and AoC a lot higher, and the fact that WAR destroys CO speaks volumes for Cryptics game design model.

But yes, on your last sentence, ofc your right. Most PvEers that VG is originally designed for want a game they can invest in, maybe in terms of years, and SOE's criminal lack of support for the game dosent encourage that.

 

The point of quoting Xfire numbers is that it drives the point home -- there are still many people out there desperately holding onto a sinking game. The numbers help put it into perspective as compared to other MMOs. So while it may be common knowledge the population is low, it is not common HOW low it is by comparison. ;-)

And I couldn't agree more about Cryptic's game "design" model. While they employ the best custom avatar designs around, everything is superficial and sorely lacking. They should license it to other game devs that put real effort into creating deep, rich worlds.

It has been a while since I used xfire. (steam is better IMO) but dont users need to be logged into xfire and have it running in the background to have it count their player time. I know its been 3 years since VG was released but it still does have some hefty requirements. I know if I need more processor to focus on games xfire and steam are the things i turn off first.

 I took a sub this month . Vanguard is a great game. But there"s no players online. Stopped at 25 because i was alone everywhere. Saw 1 player in 3 rivers (ONE) and 2 players (TWO) at Vesquals. Saw ZERO player on Kojan.  Zero on Tursh etc. VG is one of the best pve mmos ever but it's unplayable because of his very low pop. Very low pop because SOE doesn't want to pay devs for this game... I can't stop VG (always try) but I can't play VG. All players are HL players or "free players" on trial island.

Vanguard is one of the best MMO's out but what happened to it at launch hurt it more then any other MMO that came out in the last few years. When i played it mind you i have 5 level 50's it was growing more each month when i stopped although i still pay for the game there was a recorded 200K sub base at the point of April or may i forgot  when they had that big sub push.

If SoE actually took the time and placed a dedicated dev team on VG the game would strive in more ways then anyone thought. I stoped playing to simply take a break will i go back absolutly will the game die i dont think so SoE in almost 11 years has only shut down 1 MMO and that was the matrix because there wasnt enough interest in the game and the game had less then 20K subs.Vanguard is a game you either love it or hate it its nothing like WoW and that when WoW players try it they think its a joke because you actually have to work for your things the world is massive without the tele stones it took hours to walk from point A to B i am a old school gamer to me games like EQ1,VG,AO and DAOC are the best around still for what they bring.

Take a new player who has never played a MMO or evan a WoW player where they went to endgame and ran out of things to go and it was there first MMO put them in EQ1 with a dedicated group and let them run wild when they reach endgame they will not complain there is nothing to do they will complain because they dont know where to start there is so much there that Raiders,group players and etc all have thnings to do for the next few years .

VG deserves to keep going and the dedicated players deserve the attention because they are the ones you want to hold on to i have every P2P MMO on the market i buy the next new one like all the rest looking for a game that will suck me in for the next 5-10 years i Hate WoW because i feel i dont acomplish anything or i feel i didnt earn any of my epics when i get them i hate that about it is it a good game it has its moments but the end is just retarted i can name you 10 other games that place the end game of WoW to shame. EQ1 imho is still the best and will always be the best MMO because you had to work for every little thing you wanted you want your epic 1.0 be prepared to work on it for atleast 3 minths want your epic 1.5 same thing oh you wanna raid the best zones guess what you had to work for them as well you needed to unkey them all to get from plane of justice content to elemental planes to plane of time and when you got done with it you were happy that you did it you put in 100% and got back 150% because of your effort.

But to answer your question or to try and help you out i would definatly go back to VG but make sure you pick the most populated server there is two pretty good ones and 2 that are not very populated.

 The game is truly dead and I played it for a long time.  I did quit for some time and tried coming back last month.  There is no one playing anymore which is an absolute shame.  One of the best crafting systems ever, great dungeons, exploration, housing, diplomacy was an interesting side game, great classes, and fun PVE.  Other great features were running while casting and offensive and defensive targeting.  Too bad it was ruined by a piss poor launch, mismanagement, and bug ridden.  It can never be saved unless they somehow try some DDO type F2P thing.  Not sure that would do it either, but it might up the population some.

Originally posted by Kazlin

Vanguard is one of the best MMO's out but what happened to it at launch hurt it more then any other MMO that came out in the last few years. When i played it mind you i have 5 level 50's it was growing more each month when i stopped although i still pay for the game there was a recorded 200K sub base at the point of April or may i forgot  when they had that big sub push.

 

If SoE actually took the time and placed a dedicated dev team on VG the game would strive in more ways then anyone thought. I stoped playing to simply take a break will i go back absolutly will the game die i dont think so SoE in almost 11 years has only shut down 1 MMO and that was the matrix because there wasnt enough interest in the game and the game had less then 20K subs.Vanguard is a game you either love it or hate it its nothing like WoW and that when WoW players try it they think its a joke because you actually have to work for your things the world is massive without the tele stones it took hours to walk from point A to B i am a old school gamer to me games like EQ1,VG,AO and DAOC are the best around still for what they bring.

Take a new player who has never played a MMO or evan a WoW player where they went to endgame and ran out of things to go and it was there first MMO put them in EQ1 with a dedicated group and let them run wild when they reach endgame they will not complain there is nothing to do they will complain because they dont know where to start there is so much there that Raiders,group players and etc all have thnings to do for the next few years .

VG deserves to keep going and the dedicated players deserve the attention because they are the ones you want to hold on to i have every P2P MMO on the market i buy the next new one like all the rest looking for a game that will suck me in for the next 5-10 years i Hate WoW because i feel i dont acomplish anything or i feel i didnt earn any of my epics when i get them i hate that about it is it a good game it has its moments but the end is just retarted i can name you 10 other games that place the end game of WoW to shame. EQ1 imho is still the best and will always be the best MMO because you had to work for every little thing you wanted you want your epic 1.0 be prepared to work on it for atleast 3 minths want your epic 1.5 same thing oh you wanna raid the best zones guess what you had to work for them as well you needed to unkey them all to get from plane of justice content to elemental planes to plane of time and when you got done with it you were happy that you did it you put in 100% and got back 150% because of your effort.

But to answer your question or to try and help you out i would definatly go back to VG but make sure you pick the most populated server there is two pretty good ones and 2 that are not very populated.

 

If Matrix Online was shut down due to under 20k then VG is on its way because VG has well under 20k subs unfortunately