When it comes to story development in a game, I think Bioware is one of the best.  I think that the game wil be a lot of fun, it wll be interesting to see how your actions affect later events in your story within the game.  From what I have seen of the video previews it looks like they have made the game really simplified in a lot of ways, but I think at the same time it will be complex enough to provide various challenges for people, whether it be in pve or pvp.  The user interface looks as simple as can be, and I think the reason for that is to attract more people to the game, the easier it is to play (not talking about progression), the more people will play, or at least that is what I think they are trying to do.  Overall, I think they might have a really phenomenal game.  They seem to be taking their time with it, and make sure that it is a finished game, unlike others (cough* STO cough*). 

I also remember reading about the whole microtransactions (i.e. item mall) in one of their interviews somewhere, I don't remember where it was otherwise I would post the link, but from what I do remember they mentioned that they would explore all options including microtransactions, but they also mentioned they wanted to make sure that it was not something that would be a necessity in the game or give peope unfair advantage for the people who chose not to use that feature if they did implement it, which they may not even do.  Personally I don't care for item malls, and in a way I kind of feel like it cheapens the quality of the game and players even.  It's annoying to see someone in the game that is far beyond you because they went and bought gear, and exp potions and all this other stuff in the mall to give them an advantage in the game. 

As for EA  and their ownership, I'm pretty sure that all though they may have some input in how they want things to go because they are now the parent-company, I don't think they are willing to take total control and just decide to run things how they want to run things.  Bioware has a successful track record and I think that their overall opinion is going to be what matters most.  Generally when a company agrees to merge or be bought by a larger company but still remain under their current name it often includes more then just the name...certain practices and powers still stay in place, unless it was because they were in trouble of bankruptcy, but I don't think that was the case in this.

Anyways that's my two cents.

Originally posted by thexrated

Thus, both games have both critical acclaim and backing of majority of gamers. You belong to the unsatisfied minority regardless of your opinions. There won't be a game, especially a RPG, that will satisfy everyone because the very genre has many successful niches. Bioware's current reach is very wide, but perhaps does not touch your niche.

Did you know that Susan Boyle and Taylor Swift had the best selling albums of 2009. If you don't enjoy their music then you are in the minority regardless of your opinion. There won't....j*&&0lf;lkjn .....

hold on...

I think I threw up a little.

Susan F'n Boyle? I'm amazed at what crap people like these days.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Question is not could 2004 Bioware make good SWTOR. With great games behind them likes of Baldurs Gate and NWN.

2004 Bioware was at their top.

 

Yet than came the EA buyout. And Bioware produced their first EA+B child : Dragon Age

 

I would not argue if Dragon Age had good or bad story , since this is highly subjective.

But anyone more experienced in RPGs would straight away notice that DA is horribly unbalanced RPG. With some classes horribly useless, other superbly overpowered. Number of skills that were complete waste of space, and other that made no sense at all (other lower skill in same tree being actually stronger). And finally up to complete game unbalance, with random encounter of archer bandits being more challenging than end game archdemon.

 

Than comes another EA+B child : Mass Effect 2

Again. Story great ( not judging it now ) - but horribly unbalanced RPG (and this time stripped and simplified to the bone. Barely resembling RPG)

Biotic classes being completely nerfed by the game mechanic. Made almost useless as main characters. Almost every good thing from MA1 removed and replaced.

 

 

So I ask myself.

What would happen in MMO , if Bioware can not even balance singleplayer RPG ? Or design engaging RPG ruleset ?

 

I mean sure they can write wicked good story.

But will the STORY be the reason you are playing SWTOR ?

Is the story reason you are playing MMO ?

Than why play online game at all ?

 

 

 

 

The only problem I have with your post is this line here "Than why play online game at all ?".

First of all maybe I play online games simply because that's what I want to play, maybe I don't want to play online at all and just enjoy spending money on them.  Point being is we all have our own reasons for doing everything we do and shouldn't need to validate them for you or any other player (no more so than I expect you to validate your reasoning for playing online games).

Most of your post as I see it is your opinion on things and you are entitled to it just as I'm entitled to spend my money on any product I see fit to buy without needing to validate the purchase to you or any other gamer.

Originally posted by Aganazer

What percent of the SWTOR game time to you suppose is listening to dialog versus character controlled gameplay? If its like any other Bioware game then it will be about 50%, making the actual gameplay content about half as long as most classic MMOG's. I think I'd rather read a good book, and spend my game time with a game that I play for more time than I watch.

As a huge fan of Bioware's RPG portfolio, I'm really hoping that it is.

It probably all comes down to preferences; I would guess that the MMORPG playing population is split between those who lean heavily towards the MMO elements and those who prefer the RPG elements of any given MMO.

I'm an RPG fan, first and foremost .. so the idea of playing a Bioware RPG in a persistent world where I can interact with thousands of other players is pretty much my ideal MMO model. Others will have different priorities and preferences, of course.

 SWTOR will NOT be releasing in 2010. It is stated for 2011 earliest.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by thexrated

Thus, both games have both critical acclaim and backing of majority of gamers. You belong to the unsatisfied minority regardless of your opinions. There won't be a game, especially a RPG, that will satisfy everyone because the very genre has many successful niches. Bioware's current reach is very wide, but perhaps does not touch your niche.

Did you know that Susan Boyle and Taylor Swift had the best selling albums of 2009. If you don't enjoy their music then you are in the minority regardless of your opinion. There won't....j*&&0lf;lkjn .....

hold on...

I think I threw up a little.

Susan F'n Boyle? I'm amazed at what crap people like these days.

I think you got the essence of it. While music business is quite a bit different, it essentially comes down to the customer taste.

Just like in the MMO market. Both WoW and EVE are arguably best what the genre has to offer, but both products are tailored to quite different audience/markets. WoW is the one with the wider appeal while EVE serves a niche. Both are good games in their own merits, but does not mean that you have to like either one of them.

Another example, if somewhat old, is to compare Diablo to Planetscape: Torment.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Question is not could 2004 Bioware make good SWTOR. With great games behind them likes of Baldurs Gate and NWN.

2004 Bioware was at their top.

 

Yet than came the EA buyout. And Bioware produced their first EA+B child : Dragon Age

 

I would not argue if Dragon Age had good or bad story , since this is highly subjective.

But anyone more experienced in RPGs would straight away notice that DA is horribly unbalanced RPG. With some classes horribly useless, other superbly overpowered. Number of skills that were complete waste of space, and other that made no sense at all (other lower skill in same tree being actually stronger). And finally up to complete game unbalance, with random encounter of archer bandits being more challenging than end game archdemon.

 

Than comes another EA+B child : Mass Effect 2

Again. Story great ( not judging it now ) - but horribly unbalanced RPG (and this time stripped and simplified to the bone. Barely resembling RPG)

Biotic classes being completely nerfed by the game mechanic. Made almost useless as main characters. Almost every good thing from MA1 removed and replaced.

 

 

So I ask myself.

What would happen in MMO , if Bioware can not even balance singleplayer RPG ? Or design engaging RPG ruleset ?

 

I mean sure they can write wicked good story.

But will the STORY be the reason you are playing SWTOR ?

Is the story reason you are playing MMO ?

Than why play online game at all ?

 

 

 

 

Your critique of Dragon's Age and Mass Effect 2 are out of touch with reality.  It seems that YOU wanted Bioware to make SWTOR a certain way, but the development team has decided to go in another direction.

I've played Kotor 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon's Age, and currently 8 hours into Mass Effect 2.   I LOVE THEIR games.  One thing it tells me is that they know what the heck they're doing.

What is it that they do well?  The gameplay is fun, the characters matter, the dialogue is brilliant, and the story is immersive.  What else would you ever want from an mmo?

Bioware is being true to what they do best in games.  You're disappointed that they didn't go in a direction they're not familiar with?  I'd be disappointed if SWTOR didnt' follow in the footsteps of games I love.

If Star Wars The Old Republic is Kotor 3 - 10.  Signed, sealed, delivered.

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

The gameplay is fun, the characters matter, the dialogue is brilliant, and the story is immersive.  What else would you ever want from an mmo?

Its an interesting set of things to like in an MMOG. Aren't the 'characters' supposed to be your friends and guildmates? Isn't the 'dialog' supposed to be what happens in chat and vent? Isn't the story supposed to be YOUR story instead of one that was carefully scripted for your class? Aren't those the things that a MMOG is really about?

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

The gameplay is fun, the characters matter, the dialogue is brilliant, and the story is immersive.  What else would you ever want from an mmo?

Its an interesting set of things to like in an MMOG. Aren't the 'characters' supposed to be your friends and guildmates? Isn't the 'dialog' supposed to be what happens in chat and vent? Isn't the story supposed to be YOUR story instead of one that was carefully scripted for your class? Aren't those the things that a MMOG is really about?

I don't follow a script. I still make my own choices with my story. I'd rather have a well-written story to immerse myself in. Obviously, there's still friends and guildmates, chat, and MY story outside of the main quests. What makes you question that this won't be an MMO just because Bioware is bringing something new to the table?

Honestly, I enjoyed the Hell out of Dragon Age.  Many, many people considered it one of the most fun - if not THE most fun - single player RPG they have ever played; my wife and myself included.  *shrug*

I have great faith in Bioware still.  I think that company has incredible talent.  Yes the classes were "unbalanced" in Dragon Age but... so what?  It's a single player RPG.  There are also different difficulty levels to choose from.  If you think a class is too powerful, either don't play it or try the game with it on Nightmare setting. ;)

Originally posted by Comnitus

What makes you question that this won't be an MMO just because Bioware is bringing something new to the table?

What are they bringing new to the table? I am a big proponent of innovation and that is my primary reason for not liking most Bioware products.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Comnitus

What makes you question that this won't be an MMO just because Bioware is bringing something new to the table?

 

What are they bringing new to the table? I am a big proponent of innovation and that is my primary reason for not liking most Bioware products.

An emphasis on story in an MMO. It's never been done to this extent before, and, despite all the negativity, no one truly knows if it'll be a great change, an average one, or a bad one. We'll see. Bioware is smart; they know that "innovative, revolutionary" games flop just as often as they succeed. Yet they don't let the genre stagnate, either. They offer their own little twist to a tried-and-true formula, which is the only realistic way this genre will evolve. Perhaps, soon, we'll see some new sandboxes, and then in the future, some more sandbox-themepark hybrids (which will eventually spawn the "perfect" MMO... well, close enough).

Originally posted by Battlekruse

This is not the MMO you are looking for

If BioWare is doing what I think they are then I have no hope for the game. As much as I love the idea of persistent story in an MMORPG, it just doesn't work in most cases. How are they going to do that without instancing and phasing, separation of players from other players worlds based off of the story? Are they planning on having the story arcs that important to the game that some players cannot play with others based off of choices? I'm not arguing saying that they are, but if they do it's no longer a massively multi-player game.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Battlekruse

This is not the MMO you are looking for

 

/thread

Can 2010 Bioware really make a good MMO ?

I have no idea, they havn't made one MMORPG ever yet, they are working on ST:Tor, but since I have no experiance what so ever from actually playing it, I can not say or imagine if they can make a really good MMO.

I also can never compare singleplayers games with MMORPG's, so again have no idea if Bioware really can make a good MMO, only time will tell.

So the fans of mmorpgs are worried it wont be another "fields of monsters" game with pointless storyline and boring quest grind ? Well theres planty of these around, let the rest of us finally have a game that's not a map filled with monsters and a kill x and y missions like all the primitive "true" mmorpgs.

Originally posted by Comnitus

An emphasis on story in an MMO.

I like a good story. That is why I am an avid book reader. I think my main problem with Bioware has always been the WAY they do their narrative. Their games kind of push you through the story. Their games feel like they start with a story then add a game on as an afterthought. Every time you turn around the immersive game experience is broken by another cutscene (or a load screen) of some sort that steals control of your character. Its a manner of story telling that seems more appropriate for adventure games or cinema. Some of that kind of stuff is fine, but if its 75% of the game then it doesn't even feel like a game anymore.

I put a lot more value on intelligent game mechanics, environment interaction, deep character development, strategic challenges. I like the kinds of things that make me think about problem solving. Story is fine as long as its a story that is discovered instead of forced. Things like the comm-logs in System Shock or the books in the older Elder Scrolls games. Cinematic cut-scenes do nothing for me and even annoy me. I'd rather watch a movie if I want a cinematic experience or read a book if I want a good story, both of which I do regularly. There is certainly no shortage of great stories to be experienced and Bioware's aren't particularly outstanding in the big picture.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Comnitus

What makes you question that this won't be an MMO just because Bioware is bringing something new to the table?

 

What are they bringing new to the table? I am a big proponent of innovation and that is my primary reason for not liking most Bioware products.

We will not see any major new innovations in gaming for quite a bit to come.  The whole thing started with a stick and a button, and now its moved all the way up to enhanced motion capture and voice and image recognition.  The genre has been stale for some time now.  Story is nothing new in games.  However, in MMORPGs.. where story should play a large roll in building and progressing your character, has been severely lacking.

BioWare isn't revolutionizing anything by adding their patented story elements to the genre.  They aren't creating any major innovation.  They are just applying something that has been a great success elsewhere into something that they feel (and I feel) sorely needs it.    Really, it is all we'll be seeing in this genre for some time now.. whether we're playing massively online with a controller, a keyboard, or waggling some sticks and waving our arms... whether we're FPSing or RPGing.. none of it will be truly innovative.  That doesn't mean it won't be good. 

On the contrary I think its even more of a reason why it will be good.  MMOs boil down to the level game... noone cares anymore about the journey, just the destination.  Adding story elements, choices, and collaborative grouping during those story elements adds a proponent of entertainment to the JOURNEY that actually means something.   

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Originally posted by SnowStreak6

If BioWare is doing what I think they are then I have no hope for the game. As much as I love the idea of persistent story in an MMORPG, it just doesn't work in most cases. How are they going to do that without instancing and phasing, separation of players from other players worlds based off of the story? Are they planning on having the story arcs that important to the game that some players cannot play with others based off of choices? I'm not arguing saying that they are, but if they do it's no longer a massively multi-player game.

---

That is not what I take from the info out there. It looks more like a story within an MMO. You have a story arc that changes with your choices. You may not be able to play with someone else that made a different choice within your story arc. But, there will be all of the usual MMO quest hubs and open areas for multiple players you would see anywhere else.

So you have the main story that helps to define your character. While you run the story, you end up on planets with local quests and dungeons that have nothing to do with your story. Then you can go back and continue your story when you want. It will be there along with all other forms of MMO play. IMHO ofc.