Okay, now that I have your attention, I was thinking over my past experiences and I find that one things is constant: If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation. Whether it's the cause or not is not the point of the post. I'd like to discuss your thoughts on alternate characters and the number of characters per account.

To begin with, I'd like every game to have a test server like SWG has and DAoC had. Meaning, a place where you can roll characters and test them out, along with game mechanics and changes coming down the pipe-line. This would serve as a good place for people to test as many characters out as they want, before clogging the main servers up.

Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start. This requires people to stick to one character, and allows for people to become known by their character. Anyone who's played SWG knows what I'm talking about. The test server solves the problem of people being indecisive on which character they want to play. You should be able to create a lot of characters on the test server, so you can compare and contrast them. But on the live servers, you can only have 1 per account. This also has the added benefit that guild leaders and members can be more confident that those in their guild are their main characters and will be active. I'm not sure about you all, but I grow tired of those afflicted with altitis, because they fall behind the main group in the guild, and then sometimes expect the main group to go back and help them. I get my fun from playing with a group of others in the game. So I'm motivated to keep leveling and playing, so that I can keep up with my online friends. However, I'm never in a rush, and I think the game is about the journey, not the destination, so don't derail the thread for that.

Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom.

Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters.

Darkfall is limited to one character only.

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Originally posted by nate1980
If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation.

---

It might even be uncorrelated.
Many people who are allowed to make alts, do so.
In the same time, in the same game, many guilds fail.

To move from motivation to your discussion topic:
Many people need alts to keep interest in the game. People leaving the game is (in my experience) an even larger reason for guild failure (and even worse: game failure).

Forbidding people something they like to do and is good for the game company (because it keeps people in the game and is basically harmless) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Personally, I do not suffer from altitis (in all games I played I have a single main character and a host of alts only on 20% to 50% of the level cap), but it's a good thing many other people do: it tends to keep people active in the non-end-level content (also nice for beginners).

In other words: in level-based games, I'd even argue leveling alts is a GOOD thing to keep the game alive.

But I can imagine end-level focused guilds can suffer somewhat from members concentrating on their alts instead. Those guilds should (and do) have rules about alts. People who get bored by their main character can then just leave the guild instead of the game. Making an associated "safety net guild" to catch those people wouldn't even be a very bad idea, I guess...

Too many alts is really only a problem in 'goal-focused' guilds (eg raiding guilds, hardcore PvP guilds).  For casual guilds alts can be a great guild builder since it allows people to do all kinds of stuff and not get locked into one role.  Thus when there are significant power differences between characters, one can switch to a less powerful alt and group up with newer guildies.  Also it allows casual guilds more flexibility where people can change roles in group content depending on who else is available.

One of the primary reasons why I quit SWG was the 'one character per server per accout' rule.  After I got my first character to a state I really liked I was not going to erase all that just to try new ways to play in that game.  One of the key things I like about RPGs is that I can play through them in different ways and create distinct personalities for my characters.

The test server idea only really address the issues of seeking the next FotM character.  To me a character grows as you play him in the full game settings and throwaway characters are not fun.

The idea of unlocking alt character slots once you reach max level on a previous character would work but it seems completely unnecessary and once again forces one away from exploring different facets of the game.

The solution to the alt "problem" is simple.

One character - Many classes/skills.

Instead of having to reroll a new character or lose current character progression, let every character level up every skill/class in the game, but have to choose which skillset/class to play at any given time. I like how EVE (sort of) does this; your character can have every skill in the game, but not every skill is useful in every situation. Your ship and modules limit you.

It would work thus:

• I start a new character, and become a Warrior .. rising to level 100.
• I "reroll" my character, and level a Mage to 50.

Now I'm a level 100 Warrior and a level 50 Mage; but I can only be one "class" at a time. If I'm levelling up my Mage skills and a friend tells me they could use a Warrior for a level 100 raid, I can switch back to my Warrior skills and go enjoy that raid, then switch back to my Mage skills when I'm done. It's just like having alts, except that they're all contained in one character.

Originally posted by Zilverrug

 

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Originally posted by nate1980
If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation.

---

 

It might even be uncorrelated.
Many people who are allowed to make alts, do so.
In the same time, in the same game, many guilds fail.

To move from motivation to your discussion topic:
Many people need alts to keep interest in the game. People leaving the game is (in my experience) an even larger reason for guild failure (and even worse: game failure).

Forbidding people something they like to do and is good for the game company (because it keeps people in the game and is basically harmless) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Personally, I do not suffer from altitis (in all games I played I have a single main character and a host of alts only on 20% to 50% of the level cap), but it's a good thing many other people do: it tends to keep people active in the non-end-level content (also nice for beginners).

In other words: in level-based games, I'd even argue leveling alts is a GOOD thing to keep the game alive.

But I can imagine end-level focused guilds can suffer somewhat from members concentrating on their alts instead. Those guilds should (and do) have rules about alts. People who get bored by their main character can then just leave the guild instead of the game. Making an associated "safety net guild" to catch those people wouldn't even be a very bad idea, I guess...

If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters.

My idea would build a more cohesive community, but you're right, it's not in the company's best interest to forbid something that's relatively harmless. Is it harmless though? Take a game like the old SWG for example. The community in that game was really tight knit, versus a game like WoW, where most people are only in it for themselves.

I think another solution is needed to keep the beginning content still viable, rather than depend on alts to keep it viable. I'll address your last paragraph when I respond to the person somewhere below you with a similar comment.

Great posts, Zilver and Torik. The type of game and the focus of the guild both greatly determine whether alts will have positive, negative or ANY impact on the success of the guild.

That applies only when you are an achiever kind of gamer. Other people have other goals, ja ne?

Originally posted by Torik

Too many alts is really only a problem in 'goal-focused' guilds (eg raiding guilds, hardcore PvP guilds).  For casual guilds alts can be a great guild builder since it allows people to do all kinds of stuff and not get locked into one role.  Thus when there are significant power differences between characters, one can switch to a less powerful alt and group up with newer guildies.  Also it allows casual guilds more flexibility where people can change roles in group content depending on who else is available.

One of the primary reasons why I quit SWG was the 'one character per server per accout' rule.  After I got my first character to a state I really liked I was not going to erase all that just to try new ways to play in that game.  One of the key things I like about RPGs is that I can play through them in different ways and create distinct personalities for my characters.

The test server idea only really address the issues of seeking the next FotM character.  To me a character grows as you play him in the full game settings and throwaway characters are not fun.

The idea of unlocking alt character slots once you reach max level on a previous character would work but it seems completely unnecessary and once again forces one away from exploring different facets of the game.

Our definitions of what a guild is differs. You're using "what is" to define what guilds are, without questioning if those guilds are done right. I created a thread about what guilds are about around a month ago if you want to search for it. But to summarize, I believe the whole purpose of a guild is to draw like-minded people together in an "organized" manner, in pursuit of common goals. A special emphasis on organized and in pursuit of common goals is needed. Otherwise, what you constitute being a guild is really just a gaggle of friends, with a name above their head, and a special chat channel. To be frank, you don't need a guild for the latter, you just need your own chat channel, and a friends list. A properly made guild system, has applications that make running a guild easier. Applications that'll not get proper use if the guild is just a "gaggle of friends."

So in short, in my idealistic world, there wouldn't be any such thing as a hardcore or casual guild. There'd just be guilds, which would each have strong leadership, a purpose, goals, and a set of rules that define how members shall behave. Now the world isn't how I'd like it, so in reality, guilds are created mostly by people who have no business creating or running guilds. I'd encourage people to not judge what a guild is based on those people, and instead look to the well organized guilds, both in real life, and in gaming communities, to see how guilds are supposed to be ran.

To address your point, a guild is only worth what its members can contribute. If they're too busy rerolling and jumping from one alt to another, then they're not really contributing anything to the guild. Every guild could use people who do have alternate characters, for the reasons you stated already, but those alternate characters serve no purpose for the guild if they aren't the same level as the main body of people in the guild.

While I get what the OP is saying I would not like a game that only allowed you to play one toon...  This is particularly true in a class based game.  I like to play different styles of toon.  Sometimes I like to get in the fray and hack and slash, other times I like to snipe from a distance, other times I like to be a magic user dps/healer type... Yes I suffer from altitis but it is often what keeps the game interesting for me.

I have just signed up for LoTRO three days ago and though my lore master is my "main" (he is lvl 15) I also have a lvl 9 hunter and lvl 8 champion.  I wanted to try the different play styles to see which one I wanted as my main. 

I understand the problem you are trying to solve but if a game arbitrarily forces me to play only one aspect of the game I will quit much sooner.  In "holy trinity" type games, the game play is very different (thus content is experienced again, but differently) which makes the same old stuff new and interesting.

Skaroth

(funny thing about the lore master is that it seems to have a similar play style to the Warlock of WoW, which was my favorite WoW class...)

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

The solution to the alt "problem" is simple.

One character - Many classes/skills.

Instead of having to reroll a new character or lose current character progression, let every character level up every skill/class in the game, but have to choose which skillset/class to play at any given time. I like how EVE (sort of) does this; your character can have every skill in the game, but not every skill is useful in every situation. Your ship and modules limit you.

It would work thus:

• I start a new character, and become a Warrior .. rising to level 100.
• I "reroll" my character, and level a Mage to 50.

Now I'm a level 100 Warrior and a level 50 Mage; but I can only be one "class" at a time. If I'm levelling up my Mage skills and a friend tells me they could use a Warrior for a level 100 raid, I can switch back to my Warrior skills and go enjoy that raid, then switch back to my Mage skills when I'm done. It's just like having alts, except that they're all contained in one character.

That's one alternative, which we know Final Fantasy uses. It would solve the confusion that exists within a guild when one person has 5 characters, and people don't know who the heck that guy is or if this character is an alt or a main when doing roster cleanup.

I actually prefer skills though, since it's more realistic. People in real life can learn a great many things, but if they don't consistently use a skill, it starts to degrade. So if a person wants to master a set of skills, that person must constantly practice those skills. Nothing is stopping that person from learning new skills though.

Originally posted by Skarothlock

While I get what the OP is saying I would not like a game that only allowed you to play one toon...  This is particularly true in a class based game.  I like to play different styles of toon.  Sometimes I like to get in the fray and hack and slash, other times I like to snipe from a distance, other times I like to be a magic user dps/healer type... Yes I suffer from altitis but it is often what keeps the game interesting for me.

I have just signed up for LoTRO three days ago and though my lore master is my "main" (he is lvl 15) I also have a lvl 9 hunter and lvl 8 champion.  I wanted to try the different play styles to see which one I wanted as my main. 

I understand the problem you are trying to solve but if a game arbitrarily forces me to play only one aspect of the game I will quit much sooner.  In "holy trinity" type games, the game play is very different (thus content is experienced again, but differently) which makes the same old stuff new and interesting.

Skaroth

(funny thing about the lore master is that it seems to have a similar play style to the Warlock of WoW, which was my favorite WoW class...)

I understand what you mean, because I too love playing an array of different playstyles. DAoC had over 40 classes, and I played all of them. AION had 8 classes, and I played all to lvl 20 within the first month, which led me to quit the game frome extreme repitition, which is another downfall of altitis. Repeating content is boring for me.

With that said, the difference in skill between a person who plays one character and a person who plays a set of characters is noticeable. Take WoW for instance. I've met many people who've never reached max level, although they've played for years. They've also played every class and probably every race/class combination there is. However, anyone should know that a person who's been lvl 80 for a month is much more skilled in the way they play their class versus a brand new level 80, regardless of the fact that they took a few months to get to 80. Practice makes perfect, and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member.

Do you play a game for the game mechanics, content, and community, or to play different classes? If it's the former, then sticking to one character allows for all of that, and as long as you're seeing new things, you shouldn't become bored. If you are becoming bored and you do like all playstyles, then it's not the class, it's your compatibility with the game itself. Rerolling characters will only buy you some time, but the end result will still be you quitting before you ever see all of the content. So in the long run, the game isn't losing anything by losing your business, since you'd of quit anyways.

A MMORPG needs a strong community to flourish. To build a strong community, people need to get to know those they play with, and not just their guildies. In order for this to happen, names must become recognizable. That'll only happen when a person is dedicated to one character. I mean no offense, but I personally only care about those in the community that make the community strong, not the fly by night members, that only stick around for a short time....those that are prone to reroll and have many alts. Yes, I personally have been guilty of being one of those members for the past 4 years, so I speak of myself. The strongest sense of community I've ever had was in SWG, and that's because there was only 1 character allowed per account, plus the interdependency between members of the community.

Best system is Darkfall..only 1 char..want another? delete yourr own and make another..i hate alts system

Originally posted by nate1980

Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start.

Good lord, no.    On some MMOs I have over 50 characters.     This limitation alone would assure that game never got my money.

 

Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom.

Why do you feel the need to control how other people play?    I happen to like jumping around from character to character.   Sometimes I feel like playing a high level one, other times a lowbie.

 

Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters.

So I must change the way I prefer to play, because it is more beneficial to you?    Sorry, but I play the way that's most fun to me.

It seems to me that the whole point of your post is that people playing alts affects your game, and so you feel others should adjust their style to match yours.

 

If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters.

Is it possible that the player just doesn't like the way that type of class plays?   Maybe after 10 or 20 levels, they decide that they'd rather finish exploring the game with, say, a meleer instead of a caster.    But your method would penalize them.   You're saying "No.   You've created your one character, now finish it to the top level or you won't get another!" 

...and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member. 

I wholeheartedly disagree.   Any player who has tried all the classes will have a much better understanding of the capabilities of each, the strengths and weaknesses of each class.    That will make them a better group member.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Skarothlock

While I get what the OP is saying I would not like a game that only allowed you to play one toon...  This is particularly true in a class based game.  I like to play different styles of toon.  Sometimes I like to get in the fray and hack and slash, other times I like to snipe from a distance, other times I like to be a magic user dps/healer type... Yes I suffer from altitis but it is often what keeps the game interesting for me.

I have just signed up for LoTRO three days ago and though my lore master is my "main" (he is lvl 15) I also have a lvl 9 hunter and lvl 8 champion.  I wanted to try the different play styles to see which one I wanted as my main. 

I understand the problem you are trying to solve but if a game arbitrarily forces me to play only one aspect of the game I will quit much sooner.  In "holy trinity" type games, the game play is very different (thus content is experienced again, but differently) which makes the same old stuff new and interesting.

Skaroth

(funny thing about the lore master is that it seems to have a similar play style to the Warlock of WoW, which was my favorite WoW class...)

 

I understand what you mean, because I too love playing an array of different playstyles. DAoC had over 40 classes, and I played all of them. AION had 8 classes, and I played all to lvl 20 within the first month, which led me to quit the game frome extreme repitition, which is another downfall of altitis. Repeating content is boring for me.

With that said, the difference in skill between a person who plays one character and a person who plays a set of characters is noticeable. Take WoW for instance. I've met many people who've never reached max level, although they've played for years. They've also played every class and probably every race/class combination there is. However, anyone should know that a person who's been lvl 80 for a month is much more skilled in the way they play their class versus a brand new level 80, regardless of the fact that they took a few months to get to 80. Practice makes perfect, and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member.

Do you play a game for the game mechanics, content, and community, or to play different classes? If it's the former, then sticking to one character allows for all of that, and as long as you're seeing new things, you shouldn't become bored. If you are becoming bored and you do like all playstyles, then it's not the class, it's your compatibility with the game itself. Rerolling characters will only buy you some time, but the end result will still be you quitting before you ever see all of the content. So in the long run, the game isn't losing anything by losing your business, since you'd of quit anyways.

A MMORPG needs a strong community to flourish. To build a strong community, people need to get to know those they play with, and not just their guildies. In order for this to happen, names must become recognizable. That'll only happen when a person is dedicated to one character. I mean no offense, but I personally only care about those in the community that make the community strong, not the fly by night members, that only stick around for a short time....those that are prone to reroll and have many alts. Yes, I personally have been guilty of being one of those members for the past 4 years, so I speak of myself. The strongest sense of community I've ever had was in SWG, and that's because there was only 1 character allowed per account, plus the interdependency between members of the community.

Well, I played AC for 4 years and WoW for five and though I dedicated the majority of my time to a "main," I played many toons when there was nothing for my main to do.  No raid? play on alt. No pvp? play on alt.  Guild needs is short on one particular role/class ... work on my alt so I can offer that option.

When I was raiding in WoW I had my main, warlock, but I also had (lesser geared but raiding effective) a warrior tank and a druid healer if the guild needed one of those options they would sacrifice my dps (because we had a replacement) and I would switch roles.  This ability was what let us raid sometimes where we would not have otherwise (I was a casual raider in a casual raid guild).

When I try a new game I want to be able to try different classes.  When I started WoW I played every class to about level 20.  I liked the Hunter best (to start).  I maxed him out, pvp'd with him competitively (Vanilla BG groups), got bored, changed servers and rolled a Warlock... loved it, leveled it, pvp'd (bg groups in vanilla and arena in BC/Wrath) and raided with it all the way to Wrath.  All the while playing alts on my down time.

Yes I quit those games that I had alts on... but I only lasted a month in SWG so...

Skaroth

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by nate1980

Next, I'd like every game in the future to only offer 1 character per account at the start.

Good lord, no.    On some MMOs I have over 50 characters.     This limitation alone would assure that game never got my money.

 

Lastly, I think that in order to unlock more character slots, you should be required to level a character to max level. So if you want your second character slot, you need to get your first character to max level. If you want your 3rd character slot, you need to level up your second character to max level, and so on. This'll help people stay committed to their characters, and help stop people from jumping around from one character to the next, never getting far on any of them, and then quitting out of boredom.

Why do you feel the need to control how other people play?    I happen to like jumping around from character to character.   Sometimes I feel like playing a high level one, other times a lowbie.

 

Before the accusations and immaturity starts, I'd like to say that I suffer from altitis as well, and have learned that if I'm ever going to enjoy the game and get to max level, I need to stick to one character, and ignore "the grass is greener" syndrome. So those of you with altitis, I feel your pain. All I can say is that I'd love to play with you all, not just in the 1-20 range, but the entire game. That's why I think this is necessary. Otherwise, you all will reach level 20, and reroll to something else and I'll never see you all again. That, or I'll have to keep an Excel page open with a list of your characters, so I know who is who in the guild. That's just annoying. I'd rather get to know the people playing along side of me, and it's hard when I can never group with you, because you keep rerolling or bouncing between characters.

So I must change the way I prefer to play, because it is more beneficial to you?    Sorry, but I play the way that's most fun to me.

It seems to me that the whole point of your post is that people playing alts affects your game, and so you feel others should adjust their style to match yours.

 

If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters.

Is it possible that the player just doesn't like the way that type of class plays?   Maybe after 10 or 20 levels, they decide that they'd rather finish exploring the game with, say, a meleer instead of a caster.    But your method would penalize them.   You're saying "No.   You've created your one character, now finish it to the top level or you won't get another!" 

...and when a person is splitting their time between characters, they're not nearly as good as they could be if they focused on mastering one class. That alone hurts the community, because you're a less effective group member. 

I wholeheartedly disagree.   Any player who has tried all the classes will have a much better understanding of the capabilities of each, the strengths and weaknesses of each class.    That will make them a better group member.

 

I wouldn't be bothered if you never played the game if it implemented my idea, because you're probably not the type of person who I'd play with, since you'd likely never be around my level, nor would you stick on one character long enough for me to trust you enough to add to my friends list.

My entire thread, and everyone in it has been flame free and non-provoking, yet you felt the need to provoke me by telling me I'm controlling? In most things in life, there are those with ideas, and those that follow. In MMORPG's, strong communities are remembered and make the game more fun. So I'm speaking of my idea, that'll help make the community stronger. So it's not about pleasing me, rather it's about what's good for the community as a whole; what'll make a strong community. Your attitude is a "me me me" attitude. You want to do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and damn anyone elses wants or needs. If you don't care about the people you play with, then that's your right, but don't expect me to change my idea to cater to you, since you don't care about other people anyways.

Now if you have an actual idea on how to foster strong cohesive communties, not just guild communities, while still allowing for altitis inflicted members, then please share them and point to examples of where this has been tried and proven successful. My idea has been tried, and has been successful in SWG.

Someone who tries all the classes will have an idea of what each class is about, but you could really only accurately comment on what you've physically played yourself. So if you've only played a class to lvl 20, and the level cap is 50, then how could you say you can accurately surmise what that class can do off those 20 levels? Believe me, after playing 40 classes in DAoC, I do understand how playing all those classes can give you an edge when forming groups and fighting other classes, but to accurately know who can do what, you need to get them to a high level, which takes a lot of time. So in the short term, meaning 3-6 months, focusing on a main is more beneficial to the community than focusing on a handful of alts.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Torik

Too many alts is really only a problem in 'goal-focused' guilds (eg raiding guilds, hardcore PvP guilds).  For casual guilds alts can be a great guild builder since it allows people to do all kinds of stuff and not get locked into one role.  Thus when there are significant power differences between characters, one can switch to a less powerful alt and group up with newer guildies.  Also it allows casual guilds more flexibility where people can change roles in group content depending on who else is available.

One of the primary reasons why I quit SWG was the 'one character per server per accout' rule.  After I got my first character to a state I really liked I was not going to erase all that just to try new ways to play in that game.  One of the key things I like about RPGs is that I can play through them in different ways and create distinct personalities for my characters.

The test server idea only really address the issues of seeking the next FotM character.  To me a character grows as you play him in the full game settings and throwaway characters are not fun.

The idea of unlocking alt character slots once you reach max level on a previous character would work but it seems completely unnecessary and once again forces one away from exploring different facets of the game.

 

Our definitions of what a guild is differs. You're using "what is" to define what guilds are, without questioning if those guilds are done right. I created a thread about what guilds are about around a month ago if you want to search for it. But to summarize, I believe the whole purpose of a guild is to draw like-minded people together in an "organized" manner, in pursuit of common goals. A special emphasis on organized and in pursuit of common goals is needed. Otherwise, what you constitute being a guild is really just a gaggle of friends, with a name above their head, and a special chat channel. To be frank, you don't need a guild for the latter, you just need your own chat channel, and a friends list. A properly made guild system, has applications that make running a guild easier. Applications that'll not get proper use if the guild is just a "gaggle of friends."

So in short, in my idealistic world, there wouldn't be any such thing as a hardcore or casual guild. There'd just be guilds, which would each have strong leadership, a purpose, goals, and a set of rules that define how members shall behave. Now the world isn't how I'd like it, so in reality, guilds are created mostly by people who have no business creating or running guilds. I'd encourage people to not judge what a guild is based on those people, and instead look to the well organized guilds, both in real life, and in gaming communities, to see how guilds are supposed to be ran.

To address your point, a guild is only worth what its members can contribute. If they're too busy rerolling and jumping from one alt to another, then they're not really contributing anything to the guild. Every guild could use people who do have alternate characters, for the reasons you stated already, but those alternate characters serve no purpose for the guild if they aren't the same level as the main body of people in the guild.

guild

–noun
1. an organization of persons with related interests, goals, etc., esp. one formed for mutual aid or protection.

2. any of various medieval associations, as of merchants or artisans, organized to maintain standards and to protect the interests of its members, and that sometimes constituted a local governing body.

or

guild also gild (g?ld)
n.

a) An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards.

b)A similar association, as of merchants or artisans, in medieval times.

The standard definition of a guild says nothing about the 'pursuit of common goals'.  All it says that the members share related interests and maintain a set of standards.  What those interests and standards are is purely up to the membership.  How narrow those interests are and how loose the standards are is purely up to the founders/leaders of the guild.

People who play multiple different classes and roles have a wider knowledge of the game and can relate/help others get better in their chosen roles.  They can weigh the contributions of different classes better and can adjust their own playstyle when grouped to meld better with the group composition. 

You really seem to have a very narrow view of MMORPGs and the way people play them.

I think that a system like this could help me get to the end game faster than I normally would since I am an altaholic.  I've been playing mmos for ten years now and have only reached max level in 3 games. 

Ultimately the system wouldn't work for me though.  I usually keep a solo character, a character to play with my fiance, a character to play with my brother, and a character to play with both of them.  Mentoring systems are nice and help when we need a speedy run through something but having a character that has already done the quests or is just helping out seems to remove some of the fun from my fiance's experience.  It can be hard enough to talk her into trying a new game other than EQ2 anymore so I try to keep the fun factor as high as possible for her until she gets hooked.

nate, you make it clear that you feel your manner of play is the right way and anyone else either plays wrong or has an affliction of some kind. It makes it harder and harder to actually engage in any kind of discussion when it seems you don't want to really have one.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Zilverrug

 

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Originally posted by nate1980
If a new guild has most of its members constantly rerolling alternate characters, that guild fails. This could be a cause or only a coorelation.

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It might even be uncorrelated.
Many people who are allowed to make alts, do so.
In the same time, in the same game, many guilds fail.

To move from motivation to your discussion topic:
Many people need alts to keep interest in the game. People leaving the game is (in my experience) an even larger reason for guild failure (and even worse: game failure).

Forbidding people something they like to do and is good for the game company (because it keeps people in the game and is basically harmless) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Personally, I do not suffer from altitis (in all games I played I have a single main character and a host of alts only on 20% to 50% of the level cap), but it's a good thing many other people do: it tends to keep people active in the non-end-level content (also nice for beginners).

In other words: in level-based games, I'd even argue leveling alts is a GOOD thing to keep the game alive.

But I can imagine end-level focused guilds can suffer somewhat from members concentrating on their alts instead. Those guilds should (and do) have rules about alts. People who get bored by their main character can then just leave the guild instead of the game. Making an associated "safety net guild" to catch those people wouldn't even be a very bad idea, I guess...

 

If people need alts to stay interested in the game, then the game won't last them anyways. Their first character will continuously show them new content and places to see, as long as they're playing them. So if the new content and areas can't keep their interest, then what's the point in rerolling, since not too long in the near future, they'll just quit that character like they did the first one. Again, test servers could be used to test out characters.

My idea would build a more cohesive community, but you're right, it's not in the company's best interest to forbid something that's relatively harmless. Is it harmless though? Take a game like the old SWG for example. The community in that game was really tight knit, versus a game like WoW, where most people are only in it for themselves.

I think another solution is needed to keep the beginning content still viable, rather than depend on alts to keep it viable. I'll address your last paragraph when I respond to the person somewhere below you with a similar comment.

You're try to apply the way you like to play games to everyone.  Don't do that.   Sometimes I like to play a melee tank, some times a healer - sometimes I want to roleplay a horny rogue, sometimes a haughty wizard.

Just because you can't do that, and play  your one character like it is  yourself, don't think everyone else would or should like to play like that.