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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do MMORPGs still exist that micromanage all skills like AC or UO?

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46 posts found
  Lum2K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 9

 
OP  1/20/10 12:08:08 AM#21
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Lum2K
Originally posted by Malickie

Ryzom really is basically the last game left like that. SWG, was up until 05 when a class based system replaced the skill based. You can always still play UO or AC, I know, they're to old for most.


 

Holy cow!  Are you serious!?  MMORPGs have gotten awful lame then, IMO.  Don't people nowadays get bored if all their skillsets are "pre-ordained" by developers?  I loved being able to have a character that was nothing similar to anyone on the server.  I lied about the 5 years, I did play LOTR Online for a few days since a friend of mine had a few charity accounts, but I laughed at that game when I designed a character and it automatically labeled my character a "tank" or such.... OMG, MMORPGs have been simplified!!!  Thanks for the suggestions folks.  I'll try some of these few games left that seem to appreciate what MMORPGs used to be about.


 

In games without any progression constraints, teamplay is less interesting because everyone ends up being an uninteresting hybrid (they kinda tank, kinda cast, kinda heal, etc)

Constraints provide the limitations necessary to make decisionmaking interesting.  Tight progression constraints (like Classes) result in some of the most interesting mid-battle decisionmaking, even if they might have slightly less interesting pre-battle decisionmaking.

The more freeform and sandbox a game is, the less it's a game and the more it's simply a freeform activity.  Freeform activities don't tug at the same type of motivation strings as games -- at least not for the majority of people.


 

I suppose.  But I remember in the days of these sandbox games, people eventually did morph into specialized classes with some of their toons.  They just didn't have to be told by developers which direction to go. 

  Lum2K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 9

 
OP  1/20/10 12:09:26 AM#22
Originally posted by rpgamer13

darkfall is the closest game to asheron's call i've ever played. other then anarchy online.  AC i still own 6 accounts i played 2000-2005 3-4 boxing while wife played 1-2 accounts. i still miss the game. and i have olthoi pics in my van as i plan to get a tatoo this spring

darkfall is very close to AC but just 90% pvp vs pve


 

Sounds good.  Darkfall then it is. Thanks.

  Gabby-air

Tipster

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 3447

1/20/10 12:28:19 AM#23
Originally posted by Lum2K
Originally posted by rpgamer13

darkfall is the closest game to asheron's call i've ever played. other then anarchy online.  AC i still own 6 accounts i played 2000-2005 3-4 boxing while wife played 1-2 accounts. i still miss the game. and i have olthoi pics in my van as i plan to get a tatoo this spring

darkfall is very close to AC but just 90% pvp vs pve


 

Sounds good.  Darkfall then it is. Thanks.

 

Just remember its mainly a pvp centric game.

  comablak18

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 37

1/20/10 12:30:57 AM#24

    I dont want to persuade NOT to try Darkfall but you did mention something about not wanting to be griefed by more more experienced players at starter areas and Darkfall is notorious for that and the fact that currently there isnt a free trial for it.   However, after reading your responses I think Fallen Earth is more suited to your style.  And with Fallen Earth there is a free trial and if you decide to upgrade to retail the game only costs $40 from Icarus's online store.  www.fallenearth.com/  Youll find the link to the free trial at their website.  Otherwise, if you decide to try Darkfall you'll be shelling out $50 without having played it yet.  Anyways, good luck on what ever decision you make.

The most misused word on the internet:

loose

adjective, looser, loosest, adverb, verb loosed, loosing.
–adjective
1. free or released from fastening or attachment: a loose end.
2. free from anything that binds or restrains; unfettered


The word you are looking for is L-O-S-E. YOu can NOT loose a game.

  Knightcry

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/05
Posts: 170

1/20/10 12:43:39 AM#25

I'm betting he will dislike both fallen earth and darkfall. His best bet is a free shard offering the UO era he enjoyed. I do a pre ren shard some do ninja gaiden uo...whatever you like.

 

Edit- Dude I hope you didn't buy darkfall without check their forums...that alone will turn the worst WoW forum junky off.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5266

1/20/10 12:52:50 AM#26
Originally posted by Knightcry

I'm betting he will dislike both fallen earth and darkfall. His best bet is a free shard offering the UO era he enjoyed. I do a pre ren shard some do ninja gaiden uo...whatever you like.

 

Edit- Dude I hope you didn't buy darkfall without check their forums...that alone will turn the worst WoW forum junky off.

Have to agree about Darkfall, not a game i can particularly recommend, with any luck he'll pick up on the problems there and give it a miss.  Im a great believer of using free trials to check a game out before buying, most MMO's have them, the better ones at least, and always recommend people try games before buying, it can ease the pain on your wallet by avoiding making bad purchases.

  IamPrimeEvil

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/10
Posts: 2

1/20/10 12:56:49 AM#27

 I think a remake of AC 1 with microsoft publishing again would be great... Leave out decal and bring back the learning curve of all the comps. and you have a nice game to play for 10 more years.                              Prime Evil   Frostfell Server

10 year  AC  player  :)

Waiting: Terra / GW2 Playing: -
Retired: Asherons Call, PWI, WoW, DDO, DF, RoM, Grand Fantasia, Combat Arms, Archlord, Dungeon Runners, Cabal, FF XI, etc

  rpgamer13

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/08
Posts: 72

1/20/10 1:15:30 AM#28

if trying darkfall please read this http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/forums/thread/263393/my-darkfall-newb-guide.html

it will help you start out. 

main thing to know about this game. is you have to be ready to die. and often and accept you'll loose all your items. once you get ganked a few times and accept it. just bank items often. and you'll enjoy the game. knowing that as you skill up you'll be doing the ganking and taking all the loot

darkfall is a ton of fun. i havn't spent more then a month in any game since playing asheron's call and everquest before 2007 . darkfall i'm in my 2nd month. and just paid for 6 months.

don't join a clan to soon. safer, till your skills above 25 combat wise and you have greater magic. if not an elemental school.  clan NEW is great to get into after a week of playing. then choose a clan based of what you like

working on skills is like UO. open classes like AC 

enjoy. message me ingame if on  NA server if you need help or advice "  validate zhentil "

choose the race you like the looks of or at least the racial mounts.  in the end their all the same. it's skill based. and you can buy all mounts from players in your clan later.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5266

1/20/10 1:28:27 AM#29
Originally posted by IamPrimeEvil

 I think a remake of AC 1 with microsoft publishing again would be great... Leave out decal and bring back the learning curve of all the comps. and you have a nice game to play for 10 more years.                              Prime Evil   Frostfell Server

10 year  AC  player  :)


 

always thought that the spell system in AC  was really good, trying to invent/create a spell by using the components was a really novel idea...  messing about with tapers and stuff,  and, unlike AC2, its actually still running too...  nostalgic, i know but some of the best times there was defending a fort in the middle of nowhere people on the walls spells and arrows, and melee'rs on the ground inside and out..  a graphical update on that game etc, would be pretty awesome i think

  segmentfault

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 76

1/20/10 5:21:46 AM#30

Darkfall is your game.  It is classless, level-less, and if you have been playing MMOs for allloonng time, then you will enjoy the challenge.

 

Just be ready for the cruel world pvp though... it's tough out there.

 

  thark

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1107

1/20/10 5:30:37 AM#31


Originally posted by segmentfault
Darkfall is your game.  It is classless, level-less, and if you have been playing MMOs for allloonng time, then you will enjoy the challenge.
 
Just be ready for the cruel world pvp though... it's tough out there.
 

Umm..There is no micromanaging in Darkfall..

Is there.?

/junker

  uquipu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/14/09
Posts: 1538

1/20/10 8:18:07 AM#32

 Dungeon and Dragons the pen and paper game came up with levels.

But there were other games that came out around the same time that had skill advancement.  The thing with skill advancement using pen and paper is that it's very tedious to do by hand.  A computer tracking all of that is very handy.

I don't care really, levels or skills.  Why does it matter?

Is it because a skill advancement game will let you get over powered?

 

Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren

  User Deleted
1/20/10 8:42:08 AM#33

I'm a big fan of RPG's, and the D&D Ruleset, especially the Forgotten Realms setting.

But In terms of Skill-sets VS Classes, I would prefer a middleground that offers people the choice of following a set of class skills but allows them at the same time to cross-class skill their characters, and that is really when you get a variety of characters who can fulfill diferent roles without having to specialize in their respective areas, such as Healing, Tanking, Ranged or Melee, etc.

Thats why the D&D ruleset appeals to me so greatly, You can have a Armor-toting Mage with a longsword, A tank who can heal his allies, or any number of combinations.

I would love to see a Forgotten Realms MMO done properly.

 

That for me would be a liberating experience.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3207

"A very special kind of stupidity"

1/20/10 9:53:48 AM#34
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Lum2K
Originally posted by Malickie

Ryzom really is basically the last game left like that. SWG, was up until 05 when a class based system replaced the skill based. You can always still play UO or AC, I know, they're to old for most.


 

Holy cow!  Are you serious!?  MMORPGs have gotten awful lame then, IMO.  Don't people nowadays get bored if all their skillsets are "pre-ordained" by developers?  I loved being able to have a character that was nothing similar to anyone on the server.  I lied about the 5 years, I did play LOTR Online for a few days since a friend of mine had a few charity accounts, but I laughed at that game when I designed a character and it automatically labeled my character a "tank" or such.... OMG, MMORPGs have been simplified!!!  Thanks for the suggestions folks.  I'll try some of these few games left that seem to appreciate what MMORPGs used to be about.


 

In games without any progression constraints, teamplay is less interesting because everyone ends up being an uninteresting hybrid (they kinda tank, kinda cast, kinda heal, etc)

Constraints provide the limitations necessary to make decisionmaking interesting.  Tight progression constraints (like Classes) result in some of the most interesting mid-battle decisionmaking, even if they might have slightly less interesting pre-battle decisionmaking.

The more freeform and sandbox a game is, the less it's a game and the more it's simply a freeform activity.  Freeform activities don't tug at the same type of motivation strings as games -- at least not for the majority of people.


 

That's a problem that EVE solves neatly with ship-based play. Although the player may have acquired the skills to fulfill just about any role, he can only fly one ship at a time, which will be much more focused in its abilities and weaknesses.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

1/20/10 10:33:00 AM#35
Originally posted by thark

 


Originally posted by segmentfault
Darkfall is your game.  It is classless, level-less, and if you have been playing MMOs for allloonng time, then you will enjoy the challenge.
 
Just be ready for the cruel world pvp though... it's tough out there.
 

 

Umm..There is no micromanaging in Darkfall..

Is there.?

/junker


 

What sort of "micromanaging" is there in any MMORPG?

Closest I could see is that there are so many skills in Darkfall that you can use that it becomes a hassle to keep the important ones on your bar, especially since you can't just display a bunch of bars and have everything conveniently hotkeyed.  Closest I've found is to actually use hotkeys to switch between bars (which I never use in other games) so I'm constantly shifting between 8 different bars (which is more than I need in other games.)

It's more of a hassle than anything, because the actual game depth to the abilities on those 8 bars is less than what I see in WOW (where the most bars I use is ~6, with some classes only needing 3-4.)

  eldarin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/08
Posts: 20

1/20/10 10:34:19 AM#36

 Ragnarok had something like that . You were able to create your own unique toon by giving some stat points and they were permanent, you were not able to change them. I played that game 6-7 years ago .i don't know what happened after i leave .

  Lum2K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 9

 
OP  1/20/10 7:44:42 PM#37
Originally posted by comablak18

    I dont want to persuade NOT to try Darkfall but you did mention something about not wanting to be griefed by more more experienced players at starter areas and Darkfall is notorious for that and the fact that currently there isnt a free trial for it.   However, after reading your responses I think Fallen Earth is more suited to your style.  And with Fallen Earth there is a free trial and if you decide to upgrade to retail the game only costs $40 from Icarus's online store.  www.fallenearth.com/  Youll find the link to the free trial at their website.  Otherwise, if you decide to try Darkfall you'll be shelling out $50 without having played it yet.  Anyways, good luck on what ever decision you make.


 

Yeah, I went to the website and discovered this lack of a trial period.  I'm suspicious of an MMOG that doesn't allow me to try the game first, but I don't know if trial periods are the norm or the exception in the market today.  I'm currently trying Fallen Earth and am about to give Mortal Online and Atlantica Online a try.  I hear what you folks are saying about Darkfall, and trial or no trial, I'm not sure if I'm up for a game that allows peeps to grief me right from the start.  I'm also playing the open beta for Star Trek Online right now, and frankly... that game is why I posted this thread to begin with.  That and my experiences with LOTR Online just made me wonder if popular MMORPGs these days have all gone the way of WoW and taken advanced skill systems out of the equation.  STO is okay for me only because I've been out of the market for so long and haven't even played a space combat theme yet in an MMOG but I could see how the game could get awfully boring after I've discovered all there is to know in the next month or so.   If only there was an Asheron's Call 3 that copied the mechanics of AC1. *sigh*  Probably my favorite MMOG experience of the last decade.

  segmentfault

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 76

1/20/10 7:51:12 PM#38

There is a good reason there is not a trial available for Darkfall:

 

In Darkfall, you are not allowed any alts.  Paid accounts are only allowed one (1) character slot.  This is because this is a heavy pvp game and you don't want people making alts to spy on other races/clans, etc.  Sure there are always going to be people that purchase another sub, but that's life what can you do.

 

Bring the element of a trial in will compromise the one-character element of the game.  Already subbed players will play the trial to create a new character.  This in turn will not be good for Darkfall.

 

The players of Darkfall like the way it is right now and we don't want it to change (much.)  If new people want to come and play then that would be nice.  If not, no loss.

 

 

  comerb

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/08
Posts: 955

1/20/10 8:04:27 PM#39


Originally posted by Lum2K

Originally posted by comablak18

    I dont want to persuade NOT to try Darkfall but you did mention something about not wanting to be griefed by more more experienced players at starter areas and Darkfall is notorious for that and the fact that currently there isnt a free trial for it.   However, after reading your responses I think Fallen Earth is more suited to your style.  And with Fallen Earth there is a free trial and if you decide to upgrade to retail the game only costs $40 from Icarus's online store.  www.fallenearth.com/  Youll find the link to the free trial at their website.  Otherwise, if you decide to try Darkfall you'll be shelling out $50 without having played it yet.  Anyways, good luck on what ever decision you make.


 
Yeah, I went to the website and discovered this lack of a trial period.  I'm suspicious of an MMOG that doesn't allow me to try the game first, but I don't know if trial periods are the norm or the exception in the market today.  I'm currently trying Fallen Earth and am about to give Mortal Online and Atlantica Online a try.  I hear what you folks are saying about Darkfall, and trial or no trial, I'm not sure if I'm up for a game that allows peeps to grief me right from the start.  I'm also playing the open beta for Star Trek Online right now, and frankly... that game is why I posted this thread to begin with.  That and my experiences with LOTR Online just made me wonder if popular MMORPGs these days have all gone the way of WoW and taken advanced skill systems out of the equation.  STO is okay for me only because I've been out of the market for so long and haven't even played a space combat theme yet in an MMOG but I could see how the game could get awfully boring after I've discovered all there is to know in the next month or so.   If only there was an Asheron's Call 3 that copied the mechanics of AC1. *sigh*  Probably my favorite MMOG experience of the last decade.



 

As was explained, there are both economic and pvp oriented reasons why darkfall doesn't allow trials. To be honest it speaks a great deal about how important the integrity of the game is to the developers, as free trials would surely add an influx of new players.

Darkfall is a great game, but if your not sure about being able to handle being killed by moreexperienced players... Well, it's probably not the game for you.

  Lum2K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 9

 
OP  1/20/10 8:08:03 PM#40
Originally posted by segmentfault

There is a good reason there is not a trial available for Darkfall:

 

In Darkfall, you are not allowed any alts.  Paid accounts are only allowed one (1) character slot.  This is because this is a heavy pvp game and you don't want people making alts to spy on other races/clans, etc.  Sure there are always going to be people that purchase another sub, but that's life what can you do.

 

Bring the element of a trial in will compromise the one-character element of the game.  Already subbed players will play the trial to create a new character.  This in turn will not be good for Darkfall.

 

The players of Darkfall like the way it is right now and we don't want it to change (much.)  If new people want to come and play then that would be nice.  If not, no loss.

 

 


 

That makes perfect sense to me and actually makes me want to try the game even more.  I don't think I've ever seen an MMOG do that before.  The way you folks describe Darkfall sort of reminds me of the promises of Shadowbane back in the day, but I never played that game, so not sure how it compares.

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