Alimann, you must not know any Trekkies.  We have a tendency to pick apart Star Trek games(this is why there have not been many successful Star Trek games over the years).  I do think this one stays faithful enough to the Star Trek universe to actually allow for it's success.  If a Trekkie did not enjoy the game, they would have alot to say.  I dislike the fact that people have been using the character creation tool to make faux Romulans(the J.J. Abrams version).  For 40 years you see Romulans that always have hair and then all of a sudden there are bald Romulans.  What is up with that?

Originally posted by VultureSkull 

Yeah maybe my point is not getting across.

Let me try and explain again: 

If i pay for a life time sub, and then stop after 3 months then i lose. That i agree on.

But I cannot see how Cryptic gain anyhting if I quit early. Cos they will not make any changes to their server or their development costs based on my quitting. They will not say "oh look one of our Life Time subs have quit we therefore do not need a server of X size anymore we can cut back and use a smaller."

So if i played or not, it iwill not have any effect on Cryptic expenditure. One extra player on the server or the absence of one player will not have any effect on their costs. Hence no benefit to them if i quit early.

  

Besides the profit on the LS, you mean. Which is considerable.

I think you are saying that Cryptic does not want people to quit playing (other than a tiny reduction in operating costs). I agree with that point.

However, the point at which you quit is determined by how much you are enjoying the game. If you grow bored, you will quit playing - regardless of whether you are paying per month or on an LS. In fact, you are more likely to quit if you are paying monthly, as playing on an LS is free. Most players (and I know there are exceptions to this) not on LS will stop their account if they grow dissatisfied.

Cryptic doesn't really want you to quit early, but they do expect most players to, so the LS will make them more money. The shorter the subscription period, the more they make in profit.

The best scenario would be for everyone who is going to buy the game at release (or pre-order) to buy an LS as well. That would mean HUGE profits. They could shut the game down the next day, if they wanted, and probably would, as it would save them all the operating costs.

Originally posted by brad813

Alimann, you must not know any Trekkies.  We have a tendency to pick apart Star Trek games(this is why there have not been many successful Star Trek games over the years).  I do think this one stays faithful enough to the Star Trek universe to actually allow for it's success.  If a Trekkie did not enjoy the game, they would have alot to say. 

 

Its simple, they know this game will not last 16 months with a decent sub base so its a money grab now.  $290 to play this POS, throwing the borg thing in to sucker people...wowjustwow. 

Originally posted by brad813

Actually it is not that much of a reach to say that they do not have a product.  I started gaming with the original Final Fantasy.  I base my evaluations of all RPGs, whether MMO or not, on that experience(which qualifies me as an expert RPG Gamer after 20+ years), on that experience.  For me, for you to actually have a product you need a cohesive plot, playability, and a strong character engine(both graphically and creation/development).   If you can pass those 3 things, which isn't much to ask for, you have a strong enough game to truly engage your players.  My problem with World of Warcraft is the lack of cohesion in the storyline, and as a writer, actor, and filmmaker, it irritates me to no end.

If you had said it is not a quality RPG, then I would be inclined to agree with you. AS for a quality MMORPG, it most certainly is.

Surely you realize the difficulties in having a storyline in a game where players are not all playing at the same time. You can't (permanently) kill that dragon which has been terrorizing the region, because it needs to be around for the next group of heroes to slay it.

WoW could be a lot better than it is (and I think it is getting worse now), but it is still better than the competition.

Invested in my life time sub.  My question is after we select borg can we for the most part determine what race the borg was before they were assimilated? Can I do a Vulcan Borg?

Cryptic has that in the works, from what I have heard.  However, even though I am a Trekkie, I am also not a major fan of group instances.  Never have been.  I just want a good game that is faithful to the series name.  Btw, I have the collector's edition on preorder, and am glad my instincts proved correct.

Well, I know this is a gamble but so far beta has been pretty good.  The missions are somewhat unique and not the "find X this or kill X that".  Definitely tons of potential and PVP could be the best in any MMO to date.  I've played games that over the life of it would almost buy a car.  Yes, a real car.  The whiney brats on this board and really all over the net have no clue what life of online gaming wa slike before UO.  How about $18 per hour access fees.  Yes, you read that right.  About the only thing you could is come on for a few hours per month.  When finally Genie dropped to $3.95 per hour I actually played 50 hours per month at $150. 
A lot of people are complaining that they are selling a lifetime sub with a dangling Bord race.  That's just an enticement but $239 is 16 months of subscriptions and WoW alone has cost me triple that and I just cancelled it.  LOTRO was a brilliant move that I made and I've played there since Day 1.  No more sub fees to worry about.  Will STO be as great as LOTRO?  I have no idea, but I can say I usually play a MMO for 1.5 years which is one month more than the cost to pay for a lifetime sub.  It's a gamble but STO is unique where CO wasn't.  Even in the few days in Beta, it's really a great game that demands you to really think.  No more buy all my skills at this level.  You can't do that here....no two Lt 5s will ever be the same.  At higher ranks, the uniqueness of people will be even greater.  I can see a vast trading game too where you buy stock on this planet to make a profit on that planet.  There's a ton of potential here, but again, kids today are spoiled brats. 

Customer: About the sto lifetime sub?
STO official: Yeah?
Customer: So I pay you 240 bucks and then can I play the game for as long as I live?
STO official: No, you got that wrong, for as long as the game lives.
Customer: Oh...
STO official: Or until it goes F2P.
Customer: I see... so how long will that be?
STO official: Now you are asking me something. Could be anything. Maybe a year, like Tabula Rasa, or maybe for more than half a decade, like WoW. Noone knows.
Customer: Another question I had: so can I try the game? I mean you want me to spend 240$ on it, and I'd like to check it out first.
STO official: Sure. But...
Customer: But?
STO official: You need to subscribe here, here and here, and pay some money there. Or if you are lucky you have half a day time to subscribe here here, here and here as well. Then you can try it. But only for a short time and of course it's buggy.
Customer: Alright, sounds like a deal. Here are the 240$.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by brad813

Alimann, you must not know any Trekkies.  We have a tendency to pick apart Star Trek games(this is why there have not been many successful Star Trek games over the years).  I do think this one stays faithful enough to the Star Trek universe to actually allow for it's success.  If a Trekkie did not enjoy the game, they would have alot to say. 

 

Wait until release. Those Trekkies (who actually buy the game) will be shouting from the rooftops. Frankly, I question your status as Trekkie, as a Trekkie would absolutely want player crews in the game.

No way can a game like this be done with player crews.  I play for maybe 10 hours per week and I'm not going to spend me time trying to get a complete crew together.  EQ 1 proved that doesn't work.  Here's what happens - 7 people show up to be Captain.

I do realize the difficulty, but my major issue is that the quests really do not make alot of sense to me in WoW.  I know they are meant to be part of a plotline, but I would like to at least know how they tie in with the main storyline.

Kelendar, you are correct on that, however the only way a group crew could be done is to go by rank, and even then it would be limited by ship capacity.  I do certainly enjoy this game, though I do find that there is a need to expand the races you can play.

Originally posted by kelendar

No way can a game like this be done with player crews. 

Wrong.

I play for maybe 10 hours per week and I'm not going to spend me time trying to get a complete crew together.

Fine. You don't have to. No one is forcing you to. Yet you would force those who DO want player crews to do without. See the difference there?

You realize that some people play ten hours in a session? I did the other night. Space combat was that much fun for me. You want your playstyle accomodated, but not that of other people. A lot of MMO players WANT to group.

  EQ 1 proved that doesn't work.  Here's what happens - 7 people show up to be Captain.

Then they all go out in their own ships. Just like now. Where's the problem?

Here's another scenario: Five people (or two, or three) want to play as crew on the same ship. THEY CAN'T.

Kelendar, are you sure you aren't a Ferengi?  That would be the only true race that could have a commerce based game.   I do, however, think they need to create more officer types.  After all, there are Starfleet Intelligence ships, among other options.

Lifetime subscriptions -  When you know your game just isn't gonna cut it :)

Kakarotage, not everyone enjoys World of Warcraft or even considers it a quality game.  WoW is nothing new.  Just a basic dungeon raid game only with MMO elements attached.  I have been playing RPGs for over 20 years and every MMORPG out there is seems to be a variation on the classic formula.   STO is another genre altogether, and hopefully it will prove it's worth to the Star Trek franchise.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

No, it's not a reward. No more than an extended warranty for an appliance is a reward. It is a business strategy.

It is a gamble that you will quit playing the game before you have spent more on monthly sub fees than the cost of the lifetime sub. How many players do you think will play this game for a year and a half?

Cryptic believes less than half will, or this wouldn't be offered.

 

 

What will Cryptic benefit if i get a life time sub and quit before a year and a half?

It is not as if they will then decrease the resources they put intothe game will they? Or decrease server capacity will they?

Stop being cynical about this offer, it is a choice and it is a reward, from the consumers point of view, to bulk buying.

I bet you buy in bulk with other goods so why not MMO subs, do you go to the supermarket and buy individual cans of beer instead of a pack of beer that is cheaper ? No?Do you buy a daily ticket for travel to work, or buy on a monthly basis at a cheaper rate? No? Then why so cynical when it is offerred here?

If it benefits ths the consumer than it can be seen as a reward by the consumer, even if it is a business strategy from Cryptic's point of view.

I'm sorry, but your analogy is wrong.

Lifetime goes beyond a discount for buying in bulk. With beer analogy, it would mean, if you buy this 15 beers here, you get a free beer every day after for the rest of your life.

It is absolutely correct to offer discounts if you subscribe to 3 months, 6 months in advance. But lifetime offer is just a whole different story. How would a game like EQ1, AC1, UO, survive nowadays if they offered lifetime offer at the release? Do you think that any of the vets now playing these games wouldn't be already lifetimers for years? There would be 0 paying monthly subscribers.

It is not a business standard to offer lifetime in any field. Lifetime insurance? Come to us, if pay us 15 times the price for your car insurance, you Dont need to pay your car insurance for EVER. How ridiculous is that.

Offering a lifetime means, the company will LOSE THE MOST LOYAL playerbase that is willing to spend 15 months worth of subscribtion up front, and WOULD to a larger extent than a regular players stay with the game for longer time.

After doing the closed beta i would really really WAIT a bit before spending any big money on this one....

Originally posted by Thillian

 

I'm sorry, but your analogy is wrong.

Lifetime goes beyond a discount for buying in bulk. With beer analogy, it would mean, if you buy this 15 beers here, you get a free beer every day after for the rest of your life.

It is absolutely correct to offer discounts if you subscribe to 3 months, 6 months in advance. But lifetime offer is just a whole different story. How would a game like EQ1, AC1, UO, survive nowadays if they offered lifetime offer at the release? Do you think that any of the vets now playing these games wouldn't be already lifetimers for years? There would be 0 paying monthly subscribers.

It is not a business standard to offer lifetime in any field. Lifetime insurance? Come to us, if pay us 15 times the price for your car insurance, you Dont need to pay your car insurance for EVER. How ridiculous is that.

Offering a lifetime means, the company will LOSE THE MOST LOYAL playerbase that is willing to spend 15 months worth of subscribtion up front, and WOULD to a larger extent than a regular players stay with the game for longer time.

 

Well using your thoughts should lotro not have closed down by now?

They are still making money on expansions and also not all the player base there are lifetime subs,so they still make quite a bit in subs and I don't see lotro closing down in the next few years.

Going by the forums there are quite a few players happy with the lifetime sub for STO but the yearly sub offer seems to be popular also,of course after the game releases and more people try it out they will not have this offer of a lifetime sub(unless Cryptic does it again maybe after the 1st year)so they will be paying monthly.

I don't see where the game can fail using Cryptic's lifetime model.  They offer it only for a limited time and for a limited number of subscriptions.  This is basically the same as investing in advertising since those lifetime subscribers have a better chance of building the game's subscriber base due to the fact that in MMOs, just like the travel and entertainment industries, word of mouth is the best way to advertise.  What Cryptic loses in initial revenue they more than make up for over the long term in this scheme.  I have no doubt that the reason Champions Online is doing so well is the fact that there are lifetime subscribers who help advertise their favorite game.  Also, for someone who is unsure of monthly income, such as myself, but wants to keep playing a game, a lifetime subscription is a wise investment.