Originally posted by Joker2240

Originally posted by tehikk

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by tehikk

This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. 

But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space

Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills? ;)

 

I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.

Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.

Ermm.. he is trying to say you forgot how awesome exploring is in EvE. Exploring is probably the coolest thing to do in eve. There are really cool things to see in EvE that not many players get to see. So really there is four things to do, Explore, Kill, Mine/craft, and wait for skills. However killing is huge in Eve, I mean alliance warfare, pirating, random bump ins. and other moments. You put killing in such a vague way. It is much more then just killing.... Ohh also the economy in EvE is pretty big.

While I have no doubt that the community and politics of the game are interesting, the combat is dull and rather lifeless. It's who has the bigger guns, has spent more isk and who has the better latency/fps(although I suppose this is also the case for every other computer game out there). And if EVE's only positive is exploring, it needs work. I'll also give EVE a point for a nice economy.

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Originally posted by Noan
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.

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so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EzuaNfYn0s

Originally posted by tehikk

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by tehikk

This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. 

But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space

Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills? ;)

 

I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.

Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.

Your original comment stated that there are only 3 things to do in EvE. You followed it up with an activity that does not fit in any of the "only" things you can do in EvE. It's a bit of a contradiction and that is why i isolated the two comments so that would be easier to see.

Ultimately, the larger point is that there are more then 3 things to do. As many have said, EvE is sandbox heavy and therefore, the players drive the game. I can play the market which is fairly instant and does not involve killing or mining (though I could be skilling up while I play the market of course). I can explore, which does not involve killing or mining (although, thanks to the wonders of real-time skilling, I could again be doing this at the same time). I could be fulfilling courier contracts which, if I were on auto-pilot would involve waiting I guess.

Point is, this is just off the top of my head and someone who is more involved in more areas of EvE could probably expand on this list even further. Never mind whether you personally enjoy these activities. By all means, if you don't like the mechanics and design choices of the game then fine. No one can argue with your opinion and personal preferences. But, stating there are only three things though is a misrepresentation

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

The world would be a better place if more mmo/mmorpg's were as well designed, with a rich range of game-play and sandboxy tools for players to develop the content, as CCP has done with EvE.

My thoughts exactly. I'm usually not very fond of  awards, but I have to admit  EvE deserves this reward more than any other MMO.

CCP has vision, passion, lucidity, a high level of professionalism, and knows and understands what their players want and need.

I wish everybody in the MMO world could reach that level of quality. Thumbs up! :)

This is so absurd.. how on earth could you not recognize the greatest MMO gateway drug of them all.  It has to be the game of the year; 60 million players, billions of clicks on cows and chickens and corn and such.  Mouse clicks and daily logins tell the whole story, but you deny them?

You disrespect all the Farmville loyalists.  This is a sad day, how dare you make my virtual sheep cry.. and heck, even the sheep playing World of McDonaldscraft are crying for the Farmville folks.  They can sympathize, user base means a lot.  I mean it is just like when I bring my McDonalds to work and someone questions me on why I'm eating that garbage..  I just shrug them off and think, " billions of burgers sold, this is the best of the best, hands down because numbers don't lie."

You have no credibility left.  Good day sir!

/snicker

BTW grats EVE.

I'm still a very new player in Eve but the game's really fun. Always something to do. Great game.

Originally posted by nurgles

 

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Originally posted by Noan
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.

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so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?

So they updated 3d models. Nothing special, many games did that.

Also EvE's graphical engine was updated like 3 times, even after that it's still crappy (technically), it still uses 90%-80% of CPU, not GPU. So even if you have some uber GTX295 or something else this game lags (visually) as hell.

Well except this patch, other patches was tiny and never felt like Expansion at all.

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Originally posted by tehikk
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that?
But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk.
If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold. You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die. You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up.
But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it.

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that was a design decision. the idea is that it would not be a twitch based game, so a game where the person with better reflexes wins (like say a shooter), but a game where a smarter person would win. so you win by thinking, and having better ideas (though interceptor fights are quite fast paced).

also you misunderstood the scale. you aren't flying a ship small enough to be able to fly it "manually" as you put it. think of it more like enterprise where you set a direction or orbit and then play with shields and weapons.

but i completely agree with you. eve is that kind of a game, and i can understand that it will not be for everyone. the game does indeed take time, planing and thinking, and not everyone wants that. i enjoy it but not all the time, i doubt anyone does. sometimes i just want to start a game of unreal and shoot everything that moves, screw thinking.
but sometimes i want to play eve, think about what i am going to do, and then win cause i was smarter and had a better idea. or lose cause my idea sucked, and go back to the drawing board and come up with a better strategy.

even CCP realizes that and that is why they decided to make the complete opposite of eve, but still in the eve universe. they are making a MMOFPS, with instant gratification in the eve universe. you will be a soldier running on the planets of eve shooting guns and flying fighters (the kind of ship flying you meant), and fighting for control of planets in eve, for sovereignty purposes of eve players. so eve players fight for region control, and for that they need to control the planets, and that's how scenarios for the fps are created.

so you get the exact opposite of eve, in the eve universe :)
but don't say the game is bad just cause its not twitch based, there are players out there who prefer this kind of a game.

so yeah, the ships are a few kilometers in length...so no joystick control :)

found link: eve ship sizes:http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/SFC/EVE-ships_large.jpg

Originally posted by tehikk

This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that? How logical is it that a large space ship would actually have manual ship controls? Computers would run everything in a spaceship even by today's standards, heck most airliners are computer controlled for the most part.

But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk.

If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold.  (true, mining is boring, but the real challenge of mining comes when you are out in 0.0 or WH's and you try to maximize your yields while making sure no one kills your Hulk.  And over 800 Exhumers have died in this weeks Hulkageddon alone.  Some people enjoy mining, just not me) You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die.  You should actually play past the free trial because in PVP, or sleeper OPs you will not be circiing anything unless yo enjoy dying a lot) You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up. (Actually, you don't have to wait at all, go out and play the game with the skills you have, and as time passes you'll be able to increasingly more activities.)

But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it.  (Won't be happening.  There will be ambulation, where you can move around on stations and play dress up, and Dust514 will be a console only game that will let you do ground combat.)

 

But as to your original point, there's only 3 things to do, I'd venture to say that's pretty much true of most MMO's, but not EVE.

Eve also has in depth crafting, a great trading mechanic, exploration, and of course, kill things in a variety of ways, from missions, to rats in systems, to sleepers, to of course, other players, which is what the game is all about.  Some players run schools to train new players or players in combat, others run banks, others manage empires in 0.0 space (almost a ful time job) while others run mission running organizations.  Some folks are ruthless pirates while others are paid mercenaries who terrorize high sec space for fun and profit. Some people even host tournaments and contests to see who can kill the most mining ships or battle each other to see who will remain standing.

EVE is a game where players use the tools provided to make their own fun, which is not an easy concept for most folks to grasp.  But once you get good at it you'll find it hard to go play a traditional theme park game where you feel you are just going through the motions.

Originally posted by Noan

Originally posted by nurgles

 

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Originally posted by Noan
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.

---

 

so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?

 

So they updated 3d models. Nothing special, many games did that.

Also EvE's graphical engine was updated like 3 times, even after that it's still crappy (technically), it still uses 90%-80% of CPU, not GPU. So even if you have some uber GTX295 or something else this game lags (visually) as hell.

Well except this patch, other patches was tiny and never felt like Expansion at all.

Ermm... So? I don't know if you know this but many many MMO games use the CPU more then the GPU. The only two that I know that do not really use the CPU is AOC and LOTRO.  Yet even then they are probably using 40% or maybe even 50% of the CPU. I am sorry it is a common thing and not really a valid statement for you to say.

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Originally posted by Noan

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Originally posted by nurgles

 

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Originally posted by Noan
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.

---

 
so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?

---

 
So they updated 3d models. Nothing special, many games did that.
Also EvE's graphical engine was updated like 3 times, even after that it's still crappy (technically), it still uses 90%-80% of CPU, not GPU. So even if you have some uber GTX295 or something else this game lags (visually) as hell.
Well except this patch, other patches was tiny and never felt like Expansion at all.

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hah...i remember them saying its a hole engine they made cause the old one was too reliant on cpu.

could be wrong though...

Congrats to CCP. Eve is a goregeous and dangerous game. The ammount of work that goes into this game is outstanding! keep it up CCp!!!

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH cant raise enough plungers to salute CCP!)

As I said above, and I repeat often in threads like this, if the game is fun for you, that’s great, I don’t wanna rain on your parade, it’s none of my business. I’m happy if you’re happy with it.

I’m just saying that when you take away the fanboy goggles Eve is deeply flawed, so badly that there’s no way it’d get GotY unless it was a major advertiser on this site, would never get GotY without non-game shenanigans going on.

Anyway, flame away… here come a bunch of comments.

CyberWiz you’re 10x more reasonable and logical than the average fanboy, but still, obviously, way, way, way off the mark. What is true though is that CCP and the game Eve, are, objectively, or as close as a person can come to objectivity, deeply flawed when it comes to easily isolated categories to compare with other mmos. The people in this thread are either CCP plants, or they are f’ing crazy fanboys because the nonsense here is almost overwhelming.

Examples of where your’re paragraphs were off,

CyberWiz on free expansions: Again, the way CCP does expansions is for me the example of how ALL other MMO companies should do it.

Me: Impossible. You missed the point entirely. CCP isn’t a good company giving something away for free. They’re a sandbox game that CAN’T charge for expansions because they don’t have enough content to charge for.

CyberWiz: Some features got postponed, big deal :p

Me: The big deal is that for the Dominion ‘expansion’ a senior CCP dev scrapped weeks of test server work, he did so based on obviously flawed thinking, so badly flawed that he did what in WoW terms would be telling end game players that warriors should use greater heal, mages should use backstab, and paladins should use bear form. That’s not excellence, that’s just plain awful. That’s a big deal.

Of course, as was mentioned, on top of that, the Dominion patch increased lag, and the change in sov mechanics was way way late getting rid of something people hated for years, the POS warfare. That’s not excellence, that’s lame by any objective measurement. Dominion contributed to getting Game of the Year, what the heck did you even like about it? It was a non-patch for you it seems. I would also bet good money that you don’t spend much time in wormholes or see much or use T3 stuff yourself. Again, Aprocrypha I’m guessing was a non-patch for you, just guessing from what you’ve written already. That’s speculation with regard to you, but true of many Eve players. Those ‘expansions’ were actually non-patches, as in really didn’t change much.

CyberWiz on multiple accounts: Nah, if you join a good corp, there is really no need for multiple accounts, it is your own choice to do so. And there is not that much more multi accounting going on than in other MMO's. Last figure was 20% I believe, not far off from other MMO's I am sure. ( DAoC, WoW, all had it )

Me: /facepalm, just absolutely awful fanboy thinking, just dead wrong. You might as well say that Africa a country, or say that genes are proteins, or say that people speak Australian in Austria.

In WoW and other games, people make 10 alts if they feel like it, but the vast majority do NOT ever want to pay for more than one subscription. Some do, but the VAST MAJORITY do NOT. Do 1 out of 5 WoW players pay for more than one subscription? Absolutely laughable, NO, NO, NO.

Whereas, in stark contrast, in Eve, players talk about having multiple accounts like families in real life talk about having multiple cars. Sure, nobody is forcing people in real life to get more than one automobile but most families do. No, Eve multiple accounts aren’t as prevalent as multiple cars per household, but Eve players take having multiple accounts as casually, and talk about it as much, and take it for granted just as easily, as real life people do multiple cars.

Eve game mechanics, like only having three character slots, only having one skilling up at a time, the fact that it takes years to mature one character, the fact that you can NOT just bounce between pirating, to Faction warfare, to 0.0 end game alliance play without making major moves and changes to your character,… those and other game mechanics push people who want to explore lots of the game to get multiple accounts. Yes, if you have only one account in Eve, you are living under a rock as a casual player without ‘doing it right’.

Liranan: The trolls whining about EVE being so old and cry that WoW wasn't chosen are ignorant to the fact that WoW is younger than EVE by a few months only, making WoW a 2003 game, as well. Irony is delicious.

Me: I don’t care if WoW won or not, and I know WoW players could care less about Eve, if they’ve even heard of it, but I write because it boggles the mind how bad fanboys are at math. Eve was released in May 2003. WoW was released in November 2004, a year and a half after Eve.

(Also, just a snipe, Eve my seem old because it is old school. WoW changed everything, and Eve is one of those games that just never revamped to adjust. Eve appeals to a niche crowd that will put up with CCP’s abuse. Eve isn’t made well, it is not excellent, it is not appealing to more people because of its flaws. Example: CCP, after Eve was more than six years old still didn’t allow players to remap the keyboard any way they want. That’s the first thing I do in a game, is map the keys to where my hand is comfortable.

Eve’s key commands are somewhat, but not fully reprogrammable. Fully reprogrammable key commands is simple, easy, basic, user friendly, and CCP fails at it. That’s what I call ‘old school’, or just plain ‘bad’.

Also ‘old’ is clicking in space to have your ship move. No direction keys. No joystick. No mouse movement fluid movement. You click in space, and most ships lumber slowly around turning to face and then accelerate in that direction. That’s awkward, cumbersome, frustrating, user UN-friendly movement. I don’t care if Eve were ‘younger’ than WoW, which is isn’t, but if it were, it’d still FEEL older because the UI and other features are so ill conceived.

Zzulu: I was also glad to hear it has over 300.000 subscribers now. Pretty remarkable for a game released as a buggy piece of indie crap in 2003.

Me: More math errors by fanboys. Around 300,000 subscribers isn’t correct. That’s a myth perpetrated by CCP who doesn’t want to draw more attention to the fact that so many people use multiple accounts. They have around 300,000 subscriptions, not subscribers. The big deal is that it’s a broken game f’ing over the customer, relative to all the other games where one account works just fine.

And no, it’s not that amazing. Eve is a Coke without a Pepsi, it’s unique, it just doesn’t have much competition. Eve is like the red headed girl who has a horrible personality, but that red headed girl has a following, because despite her awful personality, red heads are rare, and for some people, red heads are just the bomb, just gorgeous. That’s why Eve has a following. CCP is cheap and makes all sorts of mistakes, but if you like spaceship fleet battles, there’s nowhere else to go.

To the idea that ‘sandbox’ games have endless possibilities, while ‘amusement park’ games are all about restrictions: When you boil it down, a sandbox game doesn’t have endless possibilities. Eve is just a bunch of people all shooting at each other and trying to scam gold (isk) off each other. You join the fight, or scratch for money, or you don’t.

It’s not some magical wonderland where the imagination runs wild. It’s a big big playground where people go to fight at lunch and afterschool or after work. That might be super fun for some people, I’m not denying that, but it’s not so friggin special we gotta pretend ‘player based content’ is something magical. Half of that ‘player based content’ is sitting on your butt doing nothing because nobody really wants to fight unless a) they think they’ll win a fight, or b) they’re so bored of sitting around doing nothing that they jump into suicide fights just to break up that boredom.
 

Nobody said you HAD to have multiple accounts in EVE, please show us where it's stated that without multiple accounts you can't play the game.

Your problem is that you just didn't know what to do. You need a game in which everything is linear and thought out for you. You can't make choices and, so, EVE isn't a game for you.

Mining, manufacturing, PVP, exploration, market manipulation, scamming etc. all require research by mature people who take the time and effort. EVE is an immitation of life, to a certain extent, and life isn't easy. Nobody is going to hold your hand and show you how to do your job, you are expected to learn things on your own. Clicking on an NPC, clicking on two skills, going to its corpse, looting it and moving on to the next one, are as relevant as sitting behind a desk stapling documents all day. While it may be your job and you may enjoy it it won't make you stand out. What will make you stand out is creativity and innitiative.

If you don't have those things then you can't play in a sandbox game, whether it be MMO or not.

WoW-like games is all about a bunch of immature 30 year olds showing off their epic gear they earned through endless hours of grinding just to grind more raids and dungeons. Well done to them, at least in EVE you have something to show for it: kills and victory. Pilots paint their kills on their planes, we post ours on websites for all to see.

I'm no EVE lover or hater, not my cup of tea, but good luck to it. However this does seem to sum up how utterly rubbish 2009 was for MMOs.

To the myth that it’s easy to make money in Eve and play for free with game time cards: Lol. Eve fanboys always bring this up. /facepalm. Here’s the math you just don’t understand. Again, just mind boggling how wrong fanboys get things. If you, fanboy, can make enough isk in one day or a few hours, to pay for one month of game time, if it’s so easy, then everyone would do it, and everyone would be paying gold for game time. CCP doesn’t live on gold (isk) they want money, real life money.

Easy money in a game like Eve is a logical impossibility, because prices adjust to the value of the money, the value being how long or with what effort or talent it takes to get that money. For the befuddled fanboy: If it were easy to earn one million dollars per year irl, then the price of hamburgers will go up to like 100 dollars each. You can’t have a system where it’s both super easy to make money, AND have prices so low that everyone can get valuable products cheaply. Just absolutely retarded the way fanboys say that it’s super easy to earn gold for anything and everything at the drop of a hat, when the reality is that all but the richest players regularly have to go out and farm it up as the ‘grind’ in Eve.

To the myth that new players can do well against older players regardless, because it’s talent that matters, not the ship you’re in: Talent wins when almost all other factors are equal or near equal, and that’s almost never the case in Eve. The game doesn’t have Arenas or Battleground or Scenarios or whatever other instanced fights with even numbers dictated by the game. It’s a free for all. Older players have a HUGE advantage with regard to hps, dps, speed, experience, against newbs. A newb has no chance against an older player. What newbs are good for are blobs. Nobody wants to fight fair. Everyone blobs, brings as many buddies as possible, because numbers win. Even those people who hate blobs, end up blobbing, by necessity.

Sure, newbs can jump right into the game, but they do so as blob cannon fodder, not as glorified potential talent. Being cannon fodder can be fun, lots of fun for some people, but omg are fanboys dead wrong then they lie to themselves and lie to new players about new vs old players being even remotely in the same universe with regard to power and influence in the game as individuals.
 

I suspect 2010 will be even more IMBA for Eve.

If they manage to release Dust AND Incarna (walking in stations) Eve will just become the most sick mmo.

Sure, its not to everyones taste.. and even I get bored of it and leave it for a few months.  But what they've done with eve, and what they plan to do makes it very deserving of this title.. and possible be awarded it a few more times to come.

Please name a game in which you become rich without doing anything. Money in EVE isn't easy but then it isn't in any other game either. At least in EVE we have a live economy, unlike other games. In fact, EVE's economy is alive to such an extent that CCP have hired an economist to review it and help them adjust things, if necessary. That's the difference between EVE and other games: money matters. In most MMO's money is meaningless, so what you have so much money, what you going to do with it, other than hoard it?