Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Newmeanie

 

To compare LOTR with star wars is impossible and you know it, ones a 3 good movie 3 bad movie screenplay with SPIN off novels, and LOTR is a trend setting, NOVEL based series that reinvented the genre of fantasy (which is, arguably, more popular than science fiction).

Also, SW has been DONE before in MMOs, DUNE hasn't AND i was being sarcastic :P

Although i DO believe a new age Dune movie would be AWESOME (I hear they are making one) (i bet an MMO will follow)

Really this thread is degrading into which nerd IP is the greatest of all dorkdom? You obviously really do not care about the game nor discussing it. You're only here to stir the pot, albeit funny it has come down to such an argument. I vote Beastmmaster greatest of all in dorkdom.

Before anyone gets the impression I'm berating dorks and nerds, I'm simply indulging in self degradation.

lol

True that.

I will restate my previous position:

In my opinion, this game will not be in the top ten within a month of release.

It relies too much on a story that many many players just do not care about, and does not advertise their offering of similar combat oriented/progression/gear orientation that players are so used to and love and DO NOT WANT TO change.

Its not MY opinion that it would SUCK to switch to ALTERNATIVE play styles. But honestly? I Don't care about the story in the damn game, i care about fighting people and killing them and spitting on their corpses.  I don't care about joe blow's planet in distress on the outer rim.  If i wanted that, I'd play single player games. OHH WAIT.... 50% of this game IS single player.

It is a niche that is not wide enuff to "KILL WOW" or be a top game for too long. I think they missed the boat.

To the OP.

I undestand anyone who doesn't like Star Wars as this is a matter of preference. But on the other hand we are talking about Star Wars, one of the biggest franchises in the world right now.

I wont go into detail explaining on how big Star Wars is or how big the fan base is but please bare in mind that we have here 6 movies which are in the top 20 grossing movies of all time which basically spawned a full independant studio (Lucasfilm) which is no small feat in Hollywood right now, especially since it happened 30 years ago. Also, a division of Lucasfilm, ILM, is considered as  the best special effects studio in the world right now (although personally I think WETTA , after the rings trilogy and Avatar are right next to them now).

This all happened because of the fans of the Star Wars films (and Indy of course). The most important income for the company came from merchandising which has been very strong for the past 30 years.  Today, Lucasfilm's assets account in billions of dollars. 

From a video game standpoint, countless games on Star Wars games have been produced. Come to think of it, from a certain point onwards, Lucasarts (the video game division of Lucasfilm) only produced video games on Star Wars because only those were considered safe investments. 

For the past 30 years Star Wars has been one of the biggest franchises in the world. Producing an MMO (or a second one if you wish, which is also an indication on how strong the IP is) on that universe is only natural. The initial success of this MMO cannot be disputed. This is one of the safest bets in the gaming industry right now.

People who dont own computers will go out and buy this game.

Originally posted by madmax286

To the OP.

I undestand anyone who doesn't like Star Wars as this is a matter of preference. But on the other hand we are talking about Star Wars, one of the biggest franchises in the world right now.

I wont go into detail explaining on how big Star Wars is or how big the fan base is but please bare in mind that we have here 6 movies which are in the top 20 grossing movies of all time which basically spawned a full independant studio (Lucasfilm) which is no small feat in Hollywood right now, especially since it happened 30 years ago. Also, a division of Lucasfilm, ILM, is considered as  the best special effects studio in the world right now (although personally I think WETTA , after the rings trilogy and Avatar are right next to them now).

This all happened because of the fans of the Star Wars films (and Indy of course). The most important income for the company came from merchandising which has been very strong for the past 30 years.  Today, Lucasfilm's assets account in billions of dollars. 

From a video game standpoint, countless games on Star Wars games have been produced. Come to think of it, from a certain point onwards, Lucasarts (the video game division of Lucasfilm) only produced video games on Star Wars because only those were considered safe investments. 

For the past 30 years Star Wars has been one of the biggest franchises in the world. Producing an MMO (or a second one if you wish, which is also an indication on how strong the IP is) on that universe is only natural. The initial success of this MMO cannot be disputed. This is one of the safest bets in the gaming industry right now.

People who dont own computers will go out and buy this game.

 

 

 

I didnt say that at launch it wont be huge. And you have not really taken away from my argument of SW`s popularity.

the majority of SWs fans are simply older than the average age of MMO gamers and they are NOT where the money is or the Subscription base is!

Not many people that are around 20 loved the new star wars movies to such an extent that they will sub to a star wars game for years.  Its just not as iconic to us as it was to older generations!

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Newmeanie

 

To compare LOTR with star wars is impossible and you know it, ones a 3 good movie 3 bad movie screenplay with SPIN off novels, and LOTR is a trend setting, NOVEL based series that reinvented the genre of fantasy (which is, arguably, more popular than science fiction).

Also, SW has been DONE before in MMOs, DUNE hasn't AND i was being sarcastic :P

Although i DO believe a new age Dune movie would be AWESOME (I hear they are making one) (i bet an MMO will follow)

Really this thread is degrading into which nerd IP is the greatest of all dorkdom? You obviously really do not care about the game nor discussing it. You're only here to stir the pot, albeit funny it has come down to such an argument. I vote Beastmmaster greatest of all in dorkdom.

Before anyone gets the impression I'm berating dorks and nerds, I'm simply indulging in self degradation.

I think thats all there is to it right now is complaining about the IP.  Its obvious people that dislike the game have very little reason to dislike it based upon what they know, which they've shown in most cases to be very little.  The only thing they know for certain that they can complain about with the little time they spent pretending to research SWTOR is that it is based on the Star Wars World.   BioWare has already shown us that they can make a continuance of their popular Old Republic title and have it do well.  Its not a question of if the IP has sway anymore, the games speak for themselves,  and BioWare as a company speaks VOLUMES.

You can say that Final Fantasy was an innovator, or say that anything BioWare can come up with is played out and done before,  (although BioWares choice system thats in all of their games has never been done before in an MMO especially when your choices actually shape your class and alignent)  or say that guild wars Henchmen system could be comparable to SWTORs NPC "partner" system (where you *can* have a character of your choosing with you through your entire story mode thereby adding to your story).   If that makes you feel better about the popularity of this game to say others have done it before, then thats fine.  Innovation or non innovation,  BioWare will bring a level of polish and cinematics to this game thats never been seen before...    and on launch, I hope you quote me on that.

Originally posted by Newmeanie

the majority of SWs fans are simply older than the average age of MMO gamers and they are NOT where the money is or the Subscription base is!

Again, you are high. there are older guys like me into ep 4-6 (and we weren't even born in time to catch it in theatres), then newer kids who saw ep 1-3 first and think the old ones suck, then even younger kiddies drawn into it by the clone wars cartoons. You are really overextending your position as a Star Wars hater more than a reasoned side to this argument, the crowd into SW is bigger than you could ever imagine... though I am sure you have every idea how big it is, but will continue to downplay it as much as possiblle. There's an F'n church of the Jedi, though trekkies have a similar sect to speak of too.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Newmeanie

 

To compare LOTR with star wars is impossible and you know it, ones a 3 good movie 3 bad movie screenplay with SPIN off novels, and LOTR is a trend setting, NOVEL based series that reinvented the genre of fantasy (which is, arguably, more popular than science fiction).

Also, SW has been DONE before in MMOs, DUNE hasn't AND i was being sarcastic :P

Although i DO believe a new age Dune movie would be AWESOME (I hear they are making one) (i bet an MMO will follow)

Really this thread is degrading into which nerd IP is the greatest of all dorkdom? You obviously really do not care about the game nor discussing it. You're only here to stir the pot, albeit funny it has come down to such an argument. I vote Beastmmaster greatest of all in dorkdom.

Before anyone gets the impression I'm berating dorks and nerds, I'm simply indulging in self degradation.

 

I think thats all there is to it right now is complaining about the IP.  Its obvious people that dislike the game have very little reason to dislike it based upon what they know, which they've shown in most cases to be very little.  The only thing they know for certain that they can complain about with the little time they spent pretending to research SWTOR is that it is based on the Star Wars World.   BioWare has already shown us that they can make a continuance of their popular Old Republic title and have it do well.  Its not a question of if the IP has sway anymore, the games speak for themselves,  and BioWare as a company speaks VOLUMES.

 

You can say that Final Fantasy was an innovator, or say that anything BioWare can come up with is played out and done before,  (although BioWares choice system thats in all of their games has never been done before in an MMO especially when your choices actually shape your class and alignent)  or say that guild wars Henchmen system could be comparable to SWTORs NPC "partner" system (where you *can* have a character of your choosing with you through your entire story mode thereby adding to your story).   If that makes you feel better about the popularity of this game to say others have done it before, then thats fine.  Innovation or non innovation,  BioWare will bring a level of polish and cinematics to this game thats never been seen before...    and on launch, I hope you quote me on that.

 

If you think nothing has been released about this game to complain about, you havent done YOUR research.

May I simply mention the Campaign system? In threads that mention it, I have heard very few POSTIIVE comments, and even those positives comments say "Its still an MMO, its still an MMO" they dont say its a FANTASTIC IDEA.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Newmeanie

the majority of SWs fans are simply older than the average age of MMO gamers and they are NOT where the money is or the Subscription base is!

 

Again, you are high. there are older guys like me into ep 4-6 (and we weren't even born in time to catch it in theatres), then newer kids who saw ep 1-3 first and think the old ones suck, then even younger kiddies drawn into it by the clone wars cartoons. You are really overextending your position as a Star Wars hater more than a reasoned side to this argument, the crowd into SW is bigger than you could ever imagine... though I am sure you have every idea how big it is, but will continue to downplay it as much as possiblle. There's an F'n church of the Jedi, though trekkies have a similar sect to speak of too.

Again, an Old timer, obsessed with his childhood science fiction IP.

I am freaking saying people, the MAJORITY of gamers under 25 do not like Star Wars to such an extent as to fall madly in love with this game for more than a month. 

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Originally posted by madmax286

To the OP.

I undestand anyone who doesn't like Star Wars as this is a matter of preference. But on the other hand we are talking about Star Wars, one of the biggest franchises in the world right now.

I wont go into detail explaining on how big Star Wars is or how big the fan base is but please bare in mind that we have here 6 movies which are in the top 20 grossing movies of all time which basically spawned a full independant studio (Lucasfilm) which is no small feat in Hollywood right now, especially since it happened 30 years ago. Also, a division of Lucasfilm, ILM, is considered as  the best special effects studio in the world right now (although personally I think WETTA , after the rings trilogy and Avatar are right next to them now).

This all happened because of the fans of the Star Wars films (and Indy of course). The most important income for the company came from merchandising which has been very strong for the past 30 years.  Today, Lucasfilm's assets account in billions of dollars. 

From a video game standpoint, countless games on Star Wars games have been produced. Come to think of it, from a certain point onwards, Lucasarts (the video game division of Lucasfilm) only produced video games on Star Wars because only those were considered safe investments. 

For the past 30 years Star Wars has been one of the biggest franchises in the world. Producing an MMO (or a second one if you wish, which is also an indication on how strong the IP is) on that universe is only natural. The initial success of this MMO cannot be disputed. This is one of the safest bets in the gaming industry right now.

People who dont own computers will go out and buy this game.

 

 

 

 

I didnt say that at launch it wont be huge. And you have not really taken away from my argument of SW`s popularity.

the majority of SWs fans are simply older than the average age of MMO gamers and they are NOT where the money is or the Subscription base is!

Not many people that are around 20 loved the new star wars movies to such an extent that they will sub to a star wars game for years.  Its just not as iconic to us as it was to older generations!

Thats just supposing that children don't like the clone wars shows, or animated movies.  Also, all those star wars toys at the toy stores, those are for the OLDER crowd... not for the children who are getting into the series.

I think your sorely mistaken to think that star wars is on its way out.  Its like saying children can't enjoy a mario or zelda game NOW because they weren't there when mario was a 2D brown and red pixelated blob.  Its not true, and its ridiculous to assume it.  As IPs go, think about the most popular  MMO on the market today World of Warcraft.  Based on a line of popular games (like ToR is).  Created by a large respected developer (like ToR is)  And they pretty much just increased the quality of the work that was already in the industry at the time.

So far, in the MMO genre there is nothing proving that a good story ever HURT gameplay.  Singleplayer games are incredibly popular, and SWTOR could bring in a greater population for those that would like to experience story, as well as experienced MMO gamers that would like to PVP, find gear, and play in an open world.  All of these options are said to be in game NOW, not an afterthought.  How this corresponds to so much hate on these boards, I just can't imagine.

FARSCAPE

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Again, an Old timer, obsessed with his childhood science fiction IP.

I am freaking saying people, the MAJORITY of gamers under 25 do not like Star Wars to such an extent as to fall madly in love with this game for more than a month. 

You are out of your mind, and a bit of a bigot for trying to speak for people around my very age range. A guy i worked with QA testing at SOE had a full-back tattoo of boba fett. You need to quit supplanting your tastes in the mouths of other people that aren't here to argue you to death like the dozen or so here currently. God, someone actually arguing that SW is not a cultural phenom to people under 25....

Ok, OP.  Fine, whatever.  Your opinion is your opinion, as is anyone else's opinion is their own.  Campaign is campaign, it's just the player's story (based upon their classes and choices they make).  MMO's don't have do be anything but massive (which TOR will be), multiplayer (which it will be with people interacting with each other, NPC's and their environment) and it will most definetly be online (ofcourse). 

I can see you aren't going to change your mind, but sitting here dragging this out isn't doing anything, is it?  You can say whatever you want, just know that nobody really has to care.  Peace.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Originally posted by madmax286

To the OP.

I undestand anyone who doesn't like Star Wars as this is a matter of preference. But on the other hand we are talking about Star Wars, one of the biggest franchises in the world right now.

I wont go into detail explaining on how big Star Wars is or how big the fan base is but please bare in mind that we have here 6 movies which are in the top 20 grossing movies of all time which basically spawned a full independant studio (Lucasfilm) which is no small feat in Hollywood right now, especially since it happened 30 years ago. Also, a division of Lucasfilm, ILM, is considered as  the best special effects studio in the world right now (although personally I think WETTA , after the rings trilogy and Avatar are right next to them now).

This all happened because of the fans of the Star Wars films (and Indy of course). The most important income for the company came from merchandising which has been very strong for the past 30 years.  Today, Lucasfilm's assets account in billions of dollars. 

From a video game standpoint, countless games on Star Wars games have been produced. Come to think of it, from a certain point onwards, Lucasarts (the video game division of Lucasfilm) only produced video games on Star Wars because only those were considered safe investments. 

For the past 30 years Star Wars has been one of the biggest franchises in the world. Producing an MMO (or a second one if you wish, which is also an indication on how strong the IP is) on that universe is only natural. The initial success of this MMO cannot be disputed. This is one of the safest bets in the gaming industry right now.

People who dont own computers will go out and buy this game.

 

 

 

 

I didnt say that at launch it wont be huge. And you have not really taken away from my argument of SW`s popularity.

the majority of SWs fans are simply older than the average age of MMO gamers and they are NOT where the money is or the Subscription base is!

Not many people that are around 20 loved the new star wars movies to such an extent that they will sub to a star wars game for years.  Its just not as iconic to us as it was to older generations!

 

Thats just supposing that children don't like the clone wars shows, or animated movies.  Also, all those star wars toys at the toy stores, those are for the OLDER crowd... not for the children who are getting into the series.

 

I think your sorely mistaken to think that star wars is on its way out.  Its like saying children can't enjoy a mario or zelda game NOW because they weren't there when mario was a 2D brown and red pixelated blob.  Its not true, and its ridiculous to assume it.  As IPs go, think about the most popular  MMO on the market today World of Warcraft.  Based on a line of popular games (like ToR is).  Created by a large respected developer (like ToR is)  And they pretty much just increased the quality of the work that was already in the industry at the time.

 

So far, in the MMO genre there is nothing proving that a good story ever HURT gameplay.  Singleplayer games are incredibly popular, and SWTOR could bring in a greater population for those that would like to experience story, as well as experienced MMO gamers that would like to PVP, find gear, and play in an open world.  All of these options are said to be in game NOW, not an afterthought.  How this corresponds to so much hate on these boards, I just can't imagine.

Unfortunately for your argument my group (25 and under) do love NES games etc. because WE GREW UP WITH THEM, and now were are the majority gamer.

The next generation of people will, on the whole, not think SMB 3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread like we do!

Its the same with star wars, theres just newer, better things out there that kids like!

How am I to juggle both FF and SW.... woes is me.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Again, an Old timer, obsessed with his childhood science fiction IP.

I am freaking saying people, the MAJORITY of gamers under 25 do not like Star Wars to such an extent as to fall madly in love with this game for more than a month. 

 

You are out of your mind, and a bit of a bigot for trying to speak for people around my very age range. A guy i worked with QA testing at SOE had a full-back tattoo of boba fett. You need to quit supplanting your tastes in the mouths of other people that aren't here to argue you to death like the dozen or so here currently. God, someone actually arguing that SW is not a cultural phenom to people under 25....

I never said it wasnt a cultural ICON! of coruse its an ICON, everyone KNOWS what it is, everyone RESPECTS it to a certain extent.

That does NOT make it POPULAR .  Everyone knows who freaking Paris Hilton is, that doesnt make her POPULAR.

So what if you know a guy with a tattoo? Where did I say NOONE is an absolute MANIAC and IN LOVE with the series? 

DId you READ any of my posts? I doubt it.

The series is great, its fun and its had an impact on movies and science fiction. But I just think its not the main interest of the bigger playerbase out there. Most of them A) Like fantasy more than science fiction and B) dont want to do campaigns and C) Just don't want to play a star wars game everyday for hours on end!

Originally posted by Newmeanie

I never said it wasnt a cultural ICON! of coruse its an ICON, everyone KNOWS what it is, everyone RESPECTS it to a certain extent.

That does NOT make it POPULAR .  Everyone knows who freaking Paris Hilton is, that doesnt make her POPULAR.

The most ridiculous thing I have heard yet, and only makes me conjure whether SW is something that is "cool to hate" for you.... like Paris Hilton. SW is crazy popular, and how that can be denied in any form is craziness on your part.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Newmeanie

I never said it wasnt a cultural ICON! of coruse its an ICON, everyone KNOWS what it is, everyone RESPECTS it to a certain extent.

That does NOT make it POPULAR .  Everyone knows who freaking Paris Hilton is, that doesnt make her POPULAR.

 

The most ridiculous thing I have heard yet, and only makes me conjure whether SW is something that is "cool to hate" for you.... like Paris Hilton. SW is crazy popular, and how that can be denied in any form is craziness on your part.

No, actually, speaking from personal experience and observation, its not nearly as popular as you feel it is.

Your disbelief does nothing to change that fact and when this game launches you'll see how many people really don't care about SW's or Bioware.

Doesn't mean it won't be a successful game, just not the huge success you seem to feel it will be based strictly on its IP.

My original point was that the sheer love of SW or Bioware will sell box copies, and  in the areas where the game fails to deliver, it will continue to retain *some* of them again based on sheer SW/Bioware love (See how WAR stays afloat with such *popular opinion* on how it sucks). While retention speaks for the success of a particular MMO, the success of the established IPs and development house will *sell* the game on name alone, from there it's a game of what people are willing to put up with vs how badly they really need to stay loyal to the two factors at hand.

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Everything you say may be great but It's still STAR WARS.  When somoene asks me what games I play I don't picture the masses saying "star wars online" or "star wars the old republic".

Now someone will probably retort me and say "Oh so you see the masses saying "I play FFXIV" no, I really really don't, but I think ffxiv will have a more lasting impact than SWTOR, simply because it is not based on STAR WARS

I don't get the comparison.  I consider myself a rabid Bioware and Squarenix fan.  I will be playing both enjoying the DIFFERENT experience they have to offer.

One is going to be a game with a lot of Solo potential.  The Kotor games and Mass Effect were one of my favorites of all time.  If STAR WARS The Old Repulic is Kotor 3 - 10, then I'm a very very happy camper.  Guess what, Final Fantasy 7 - 12, including X-2 were a couple of my favorite games of all time.   FFXI was my favorite MMO of all time.  I am very excited for playing an MMO with a CONTROLLER just like I did with FFXI.

Star Wars, with individual story arcs per class makes this game with the highest replay value and perfect for Alt-aholics.  FFXIV allowing you to be every class with ONE character allows you to experience the game without unnecessarily repeating the same content.

For someone like me, FFXIV and STAR WARS Old Republic is like being in MMO heaven.  Why in the world would I want either to play or be in competition with each other.  I'd rather pay 30 bucks a month and play both for years than play 60 bucks for any other game, any given month.

Plus, Star Wars will have gameplay similar to the modern trend in MMO's that emphasizes reflexes.  FFXIV will utilize a slower gameplay with a time bar, utilizing more strategy per fight.   I guarantee that each game will look, play, and feel different.

Having FFXIV and Star Wars The Old Republic as the two most hyped games of 2010, is like having my two favorite sports teams on top of the standings.  

Originally posted by GTwander

My original point was that the sheer love of SW or Bioware will sell box copies, and  in the areas where the game fails to deliver, it will continue to retain *some* of them again based on sheer SW/Bioware love (See how WAR stays afloat with such *popular opinion* on how it sucks). While retention speaks for the success of a particular MMO, the success of the established IPs and development house will *sell* the game on name alone, from there it's a game of what people are willing to put up with vs how badly they really need to stay loyal to the two factors at hand.

So we agree then, it will be a hit for a month, then not even top ten!

Originally posted by Newmeanie

Originally posted by GTwander

My original point was that the sheer love of SW or Bioware will sell box copies, and  in the areas where the game fails to deliver, it will continue to retain *some* of them again based on sheer SW/Bioware love (See how WAR stays afloat with such *popular opinion* on how it sucks). While retention speaks for the success of a particular MMO, the success of the established IPs and development house will *sell* the game on name alone, from there it's a game of what people are willing to put up with vs how badly they really need to stay loyal to the two factors at hand.

 

So we agree then, it will be a hit for a month, then not even top ten!

I'm actually saying there is no telling how retention will be, but you are *guaranteed* to have clingy SW and Bioware fans that are too reluctant to leave. There is no telling the size of this crowd either. It could leave a playerbase bigger than that of Aion, WAR, AoC, and any other game running in the states and Europe after their dropoffs post-launch. At that point, it could still be top 3, because there ain't much to speak for when it comes to the current top ten.

You're not just arguing against whether SW fans will stick to it, you gotta think about Bioware fans that are jumping at a chance for their first MMO - doesn't even matter that it's KotOR.