Originally posted by Terranah

I think their greatest failure was in thinking the customer was expendable.

 

If you have a business and regular customers, even if you are not the biggest success story on the block, you focus on what makes you unique and play to your strengths.  You can then build on those strengths, adding new things that will interest the veterans while drawing in a new crowd. 

 

But SOE took another route.  Instead of investing the subscription fees they recieved from players toward improving the game, they used the money to buid a secret version of the game, one that would fundamentally change how the game was played.  They lied to the community many times, and when people voted with their wallets they simply shrugged nonchallantly and said they would get new customers.  This has given SWG a bad reputation.

QFE!!!

Blaming the "vets"? Are you **edit**ing kidding me?!?!?!!!! 1st...I have yet to see these "angry hoards" they think are out there. Are there upset players/former players? Sure, but the number is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR lower than on some forums. Holy crap...go read the Modern Warfare 2 PC page once - THOSE are some PO'd people.

I love it though...typical...rather than SoE or the fanboi's accepting that SOE is the ONLY one to blame for the state of the game, they try to blame others.

I highly encourage anyone that hasn't replied to this thread that Irish started, to please add to it. THESE are the "PO'd" vets. Geezus...read what they say!!! They don't hate SWG...in fact, most AGREE that it was the greatest MMO of ALL TIME!!! There's VERY little bitterness in those replies...VERY LITTLE! Yet those are the people who are responsible for SWG's demise?!?! Get a clue.

The game's graphics are h o r r i b l e.

And yes, while graphics don't make the game bad graphics ruin the game.

The SWG as is today, is just bad quality.  Last time I played, last year sometime, I think, the combat still looked and felt glitchy.  Animations are still horrible, you actually have to download MODS to fix what SOE messed up, including the interface that looks like a 10-year old designed it.  Players (how small the population is) and NPCs run around like they're on crack which helps to further ruin immersion. 

It isn't the ones bad-talking the game that's been hurting it all this time, afterall like what some of us have been saying WoW has been bad-talked for a while and it's still doing the best in terms of subs.  There's one thing I can say for Blizzard though and that's they actually listen for the most part, unlike SOE when they stuck their fingers in their ears when they sprang the crap they called the NGE on us and didn't listen.  Closing down any post that was against them basically causing the meltdown that's been killing the game slowly ever since November 15, 2005.

The problem is SOE.

Some great responses already.  I agree with it being a combination of quality issues and throwing players under the bus.  Of course people are going to discuss this on MMO dicussion forums, so word of mouth probably plays some role.  Imo, horrible management of the game and its customers led to bad word of mouth though, not the other way around.

I also want to add that in spite of all the problems in the past, I consider returning to SWG.  Why?  Because I love StarWars, MMOs and the MMO gaming community.

Here's what stops me: I usually don't have long to wait before SOE seems to give the finger to their players yet again.  I'll list just a few examples that have come to light long after the NGE.

-Adding RMT, game-changing loot to games like Everquest, after saying that they were against doing this,

-Adding RMT to SWG at the expense of crafters and content that would otherwise be included in the subscription fee,

-Making game-changing loot available for SWG via the card game, and encouraging people to pay real cash for only a random chance to win it,

-Running their TCG game tournaments in such a manner that they were banned in numerous states (requiring an entry fee for a random chance of winning prizes),

-Completely changing the business model for Free Realms, after the game went live,

-What I see as continuing abuses of power in the moderation of their forums (welcome to the refuge nonetheless Tux).

These are just a few examples.  All of them lead me to the following conclusion: If I play an SOE game, it's probably going to be changed out from under me, I probably won't like the changes, the changes won't be for the players' benefit, and I'm likely to be treated poorly from a business and customer relations standpoint.  Does that sound like an enjoyable online gaming experience, or an entertainment service that I would be willing to pay for?  Lol, not bloody likely. 

Flying Ewoks with cupid wings and bows, and Zombie Storm Troopers.....

The same reason EQ1 or UO hasn't "bounced back". The only people this game can hope to attract is it's old players, too many people are looking for some kind of "next-gen mmo" and jumping ship over and over till then find it.

i played this game from its inception until after the NGE. i was loyal to these SOE execs who were not loyal to me. they did, in fact, give veteran players the finger not once, but twice (CU and NGE)...

they took a game that was relatively unique, and dumbed it down to make it more similar to other games because they wanted a bigger sub base. don't even try to tell me it was to improve the quality of the game, because it achieved the total opposite of that.

if SOE had been wise, they would have, after CU, recognized that their veteran player base liked the old game better. so what did SOE do instead? they moved even further from that original game!

greed and poor decision-making led to this game's ultimate downfall.

Originally posted by GTwander

The same reason EQ1 or UO hasn't "bounced back". The only people this game can hope to attract is it's old players, too many people are looking for some kind of "next-gen mmo" and jumping ship over and over till then find it.

I'm sure that's a likely factor, but I'd have to fire back that WoW is anything but a next-gen MMO, and it's got what EVERYONE in the MMO biz wants (I'm talking sub numbers here). In fact, I'd even point out that it's no secret that the simple fact that it'll run on most mediocre office PC's is a huge selling point (such a selling point that BioWare has made no secret that they're copying the idea with TOR).

Personally, I think SWG's graphics are only now starting to look dated (buggy as hell, yes), and still stands up nicely against most newer games (with it's graphics on high that is). All bugs aside, it is a MUCH prettier game than WoW (aside from the atrocious NGE HUD).

So while I agree the core MMO player is looking for that next-gen experience (I'm one of them), I'd suggest that the masses aren't necessarily following suit. The masses that SOE thought would come in droves.

After some years i made a trial account to look how SWG had fared.

Graphic is crap

FPS-Combat drives me away from every  MMORPG (i would play a shooter if i liked it).

World is covered with abandoned places.

SOE has a bad reputation and shows since many years they can not make a good MMORPG for PC-Gamers

And the old gameplay i liked (that had many flaws that time but it was ok enough and offered potential for improvements) is no more and i dont like the new one.

In the end the game is crap and SOE has not a single clue how to develop a successfull PC-MMORPG so it is the fault of SOE and to an unknown degree the fault of Lucasfilm.

SOE continuously seems to forget you actually need players and fans of your game to actually keep it alive. Its been shown countless times they make choices that either no one, or a small minority are asking for, botch everything up, screw everyone over and then try to cover it all up.

People were ticked when they completely changed the game, not once but twice, the NGE being the final killer. That being said I think it was more SOE's actions after the fact that really drove everyone away. Their constant crap of saying "more people are playing every day" right after they would open up everyones accounts to pad their numbers, and then the crap they spewed about not having the original pre-cu code anymore because they overwrote it.....one of the first things you learn in programming is to always save multiple copies of your work in case anything goes awry.

SoE itself should have been an option, ever since they added RMT to every game they own i refuse to play any game SoE comes out from now on. well i did go back to EQOA for a bit there but its the only SoE that doesn't have RMT and its the 2nd oldest MMO they have i believe? tho i think its more because of the PS2 format that they just can't add RMT to it, or its just more difficult to.hell they don't even offer server transfers for it, and if older players want to return they'd have to start over on CLW the only popular server left.

SoE is the worst MMO company out there they just shit on their customers over and over. and don't listen to anything they say at all.

Originally posted by Xerith

SOE continuously seems to forget you actually need players and fans of your game to actually keep it alive.

Excellent point X.

I'll admit there's been times when I wanted to go back. I would receive notice of a vet trial and be nearly overwhelmed with anticipation while installing/logging back in... only to be supremely let down by the lack of population on the inside. Hense solidifying my decision to not re-up my account.

On the flip side, I also quit after the CU. Not out of anger mind you, but the simple fact that ALL of my friends left the game. Then what happened? ALL of them (as did I) went back a few months later, and had a great old time.

How did SOE initially address the population issues?

Holo-players.

Ive often times wanted to re-sub as well, many times have I went off to get another free trial to see the new goodies only to say bleh as the population and the game design just doesnt warrant the same involvement it once did.

Really if SOE was so hellbent on creating the NGE as they have shown time and time again they feel it was the greatest choice, then they should have just made it SWG 2 and left the original the way it was. The NGE basically was a whole new system, and theres no reason they couldnt of just made it a totally different game and given players the choice of which they wanted to play.

I love Star Wars. But this game is nothing but a MMO with a SW skin. It has nothing to do with the actual SW universe..

Then there is the SOE/Sony customer support. It has to be one of the worst in the world.

I do not buy anything Sony..I will not play anything Sony.
 

Originally posted by AntiheroD

I love Star Wars. But this game is nothing but a MMO with a SW skin. It has nothing to do with the actual SW universe..
 

Yet another great point (they just seem to add up don't they?).

I happen to be about as big of a SW fan as they come, and I find many of the uses of SW canon in SWG actually repulse me than attract, simply due to their use being either nonchalantly thrown in to give is 'SW cred', or utterly blasphemous things such as Flying Love Ewoks.

Because of the NGE and $OE not willing to restore the game to PRE CU and fixing it that way.

 I can't say why it bounced back. But I can tell you I never bought it because it seems like a very ugly WoW clone in SW universe. Not interested.

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by 0over0

Plenty of people hate WoW, it seems to do pretty well with subs.

People make up their own minds about products/services--all being vocal does is give it more attention, so more people try it and find out for themselves.

 

WoW also has huge marketing campaigns.

 

Word of mouth, especially from other consumers is a huge tool whether in favor or against an item or idea.

Wow was a huge success before the huge marketing campaigns. 

Word of mouth isn't something that people invent just so they can talk about something.  Word of mouth is earned through actions and experiences.  Good word of mouth comes from a good experience. 

So why hasn't SWG bounced back?

This is the same question people ask about EQ2, Vanguard, Planetside, EQ, etc.

I cannot think of one other company that has such a poor track record across the board as soe.  There is just such an ugly list of actions that soe finds acceptable to push upon their customers that is has earned them a justified reputation.  On top of that they cannot hold onto quality game designers to save their life and this has affected all their games. 

A company that doesn't respect its paying customers and has a serious quality issue isn't going to see people rushing back to embrace them. 

It is funny and sad how the remaining fans of said games stand around and wonder were everyone has gone or why more people do not come join them.

Good games get good press, bad games don't get good press.

The numbers went down and never came back because of these actions. Because SOE and Lucas Arts destroyed the foundation of its very own community for SWG when they changed the game from a skill system to a leveling system, they lied to its community, banned community members who protested the change, and failed to deliver to the community promises that were made. The WoW clone failed!

The marketing is not there for this game, large expansion are not there that shows what they have done to turn the game around since the NGE. The artwork has regressed! Hardcore Star Wars fans turn a blind eye to this game because the cannon are completely frakked up. And producers change hands like a butterfly flying from leaf to leaf never able to complete the vision such as how Dead Meat delivered wonderful changes to the game that actually fixed the mire that was the NGE.

And it is really a shame because the crafting system and the player house system is fantastic. The space game is decent. I liked the collection system which made sense with the world design of the game. The world maps are large. Such a shame.