From what i have read at the site about the different classes and their abilities/skills for buffing group members...it sounds like a mmorpg.....with a quest line and flash-points for each class. Yes it is solo friendly....but i dont know yet if everything can be solo'ed out...i will have to wait till beta to know for sure

as a fan of starwars in general i hope this game does well, considering good old lucus certainly tries his hardest to destroy all of my childhood memories. im sure they chose p2p because starwars has a cult following(and will most likely pay more for crap most people don't want) after an anitial month of success and 2 months of dwindling subs the talks of a shift too f2p with cash shops will start.

what really erks me is how people seem too think bioware is this amazingly great and infallible rpg maker. people through out names like kotor,jade dynasty,mass effect, and dragon age disraguarding the fact that these are all the same game. now i understand the saying"if it ain't broke don't fix it" but come one in 7 years of gaming they can't alter the mold even a little bit. i mean its no wonder you hav companies following in line cough. cough. bethesda. i bought kotor and loved it, i bought jade dynasty and liked it, i bought masseffect kinda liked it didn't finish it(to many other games to play) my brother bought dragon age, i played it and now hate bioware for the same reason i hate rockstar. 

too all of you old republic fanbois, dont lose hope, darkfall had way more haters sitting at home waiting too tear apart your post second after you post it. don't know if you noticed but darkfall found its niche and suvived the wave after wave of unwarrented critisism. now for all the haters have you ever stoped to think that all your grumbling is really doing is making this game the neverending point of discussion on mmorpg.com, i mean free publicity is good publicity....... even if you think its bad publicity.

p.s. my bad. im not going to go back and fix all my spelling and grammar mistakes though.

Originally posted by nondogg13

as a fan of starwars in general i hope this game does well, considering good old lucus certainly tries his hardest to destroy all of my childhood memories. im sure they chose p2p because starwars has a cult following(and will most likely pay more for crap most people don't want) after an anitial month of success and 2 months of dwindling subs the talks of a shift too f2p with cash shops will start. what really erks me is how people seem too think bioware is this amazingly great and infallible rpg maker. people through out names like kotor,jade dynasty,mass effect, and dragon age disraguarding the fact that these are all the same game. now i understand the saying"if it ain't broke don't fix it" but come one in 7 years of gaming they can't alter the mold even a little bit. i mean its no wonder you hav companies following in line cough. cough. bethesda. i bought kotor and loved it, i bought jade dynasty and liked it, i bought masseffect kinda liked it didn't finish it(to many other games to play) my brother bought dragon age, i played it and now hate bioware for the same reason i hate rockstar. too all of you old republic fanbois, dont lose hope, darkfall had way more haters sitting at home waiting too tear apart your post second after you post it. don't know if you noticed but darkfall found its niche and suvived the wave after wave of unwarrented critisism. now for all the haters have you ever stoped to think that all your grumbling is really doing is making this game the neverending point of discussion on mmorpg.com, i mean free publicity is good publicity....... even if you think its bad publicity.

Man, can't you split that massive wall of text up please?

I am not trying to be rude but the eyes hurt trying to read it.

It's not about hate it's about telling the truth and not misleading people. You never know ,players might like what BioWare are offering but at least be honest and don't hide anything.

Are BioWare so far up their own ass that they don't think the leaks will come thick and fast once the testing starts,then we will hear it from testers instead of BioWare.

No matter what, BioWare will be exposed for lying or telling the truth in not to distant future.

I have no doubt this will be a good game.  However, it doesn't sound like it is going to fit into what I desire in an MMORPG and thus I will not be purchasing it.  I doubt they will care/notice.

Real MMORPG gamers need to realise that they are now a minority audience in their own genre, it got invaded by the FPS/RTS/Single-player RPG fans & they think we are the old dinosaurs that are all but extinct, our gaming ethos is dead, or on life-support with only the old crusty grandfather games even supporting that style of gameplay anymore.

The "new wave" is here & it's the Massively Single-Player game design in it's core, WoW and most games since, with a few exceptions, are all in the same vein, it's like "other people you don't know" are all immediately relegated to the masses of retards/griefers/assholes pile.

I don't know if SW:ToR will simply follow in WoW's footsteps & focus on catering to the Single-Player gamer that makes up the BULK of the current gaming audience, or whether it will try to be building a wide-open world that feels like a living breathing universe with every gamer mixing, socialising & influencing one another, or some kind of hybrid that attempts to offerboth gamestyles, but everything we have SEEN screams "single-player storyline driven game that you "can" play with your friends IF you want to" that doesn't mean that the massively multiplayer gamestyle isn't catered to, just that if they are doing that we haven't SEEN it......yet.

I'm keeping an open mind, like an earlier poster said there's nothing to say that massive gaming & solo storyline an't co-exist in the same title, it just hasn't been done before, until it's been attempted there's no way to judge if it works or not.

I do hope Bioware haven't put the massive gaming style on the back-burner or put it in as a pale shadow afterthought to the solo game they have thus far elaborated on, but there's a long way to go yet.

 Well I can't see how any of us are qualified to make any type of judgement on the game yet. Most people here are basing there reactions off a single article in a magazine written buy some guy/girl that most of us have never met.

 Now I am not saying the game is or isn't like Guild Wars or XX game. Cause at this point in time with the information we know WE have no idea what the game is like. People can speculate and guess all they want but until such a time that you see the game in action you really have no idea. To jump all over a game because it doesn't fit your bill of what the game should have been when you don't even know the facts about the game isn't doing anything for anyone.

 This whole WoW Killer thing is just dumb. I would have figured by now that you all would have learned that the only game that can be a WoW Killer is WoW itself. Until Blizzard decides to shut the game down and stop working on it nothing is gonig to come along and push WoW out of the number one market spot. No matter how bad people complain its not what they want and no matter how hard developers try to best WoW it just is not going to happen. WoW had so many things going for it that such a thing happening ageain just isn't possible. Timing, Market Saturation, Existing playerbase, Massive Hype, Experience, Money, ect..

 I won't comment on SWTOR other then that we know its not going to be like SWG. They have stated as much and the track record of SWG shows that at that time people where just not interested in the gameplay / gametype that SWG had. I imagine SWTOR is going to be a mix of WoW and Guild Wars because simply looking at the gameplay videos gives you this WoW feeling to how the game plays. I imagine the game is going to be instanced because well thats just the future of MMO's rather we like it or not that is where the genre is headed regardless if we fight it tooth and nail or not.

Originally posted by Skuz

Real MMORPG gamers need to realise that they are now a minority audience in their own genre, it got invaded by the FPS/RTS/Single-player RPG fans & they think we are the old dinosaurs that are all but extinct, our gaming ethos is dead, or on life-support with only the old crusty grandfather games even supporting that style of gameplay anymore.

The "new wave" is here & it's the Massively Single-Player game design in it's core, WoW and most games since, with a few exceptions, are all in the same vein, it's like "other people you don't know" are all immediately relegated to the masses of retards/griefers/assholes pile.

Oh we realize it, but as you can see on this site as well as many others, we arent going down without a fight. The problem is, we cant get what we want either because of the "new" crowd comming in and demanding changes or devs wanting to hop on the bandwagon.

Back on topic, I am now betting swtor  to be a guildwars type game with FTP elements as in paying for area unlocks etc. It will be something like what they did in DA origins and some like what eq2 did in its 1st few years. Just looking at what info we have and what devs have said, this prediction makes logical sense.

To me, thats an even scarier place for the genre to be then the WoW era.

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by AndyPreston

 This has literally just killed this game for me.

Im not paying monthly for Guild Wars come Star Wars. BioWare have a cheek comig out with crap like this.

The OP doesn't provide a link and you don't verify his claim, so I fully expect you to jump on the bandwagon. It's only natural. Here's what I found from my scrounging:

---

"Combat and dialogue in TOR plays more
like the Knights of The Old Republic games
than I had expected. It’s not exactly the
same, of course, and things will change
when we get our first companion characters
(since you can’t pause to give them specifi c
orders like in KOTOR), but so far the action is
fast-paced and feels distinctively like Star
Wars. Most of all, The Old Republic
feels like an attempt to build a
bridge between the gameplay of
BioWare’s traditional singleplayer
RPGs and the new world
of MMORPGs, with the ultimate
goal of settling into a spot that enjoys
the strengths of both types."

---

Sounds a little different than what the OP posted, right? Either he's a troll or he was being sarcastic. Probably the latter. Claims like his have been made since this game was announced.

Oh, and I have a link! www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Jan10_StarWars.pdf

 

You DO realize you linked to the January issue and the Op is talking about the February issue which just came out.. right?  Careful when you start calling other folks trolls...
 

 Sounds like Guild Wars more and more. Except Guild Wars devs were not LAZY and actually designed their engine instead of just using a pre made Heroes Journey code. Guild Wars 2 looks pretty amazing so far. I bet GW2 will be more "MMO" then TOR

This is the best news SOE could want, as the SWG community will not be happy loosing so many sandbox elements they have with SWG.

Hopefully SOE will take advantage and keep steering SWG to it's sandbox roots.

Originally posted by Snob 

But this is what i mean, the fan boys want us to read the quotes from the devs and shut up but as soon as we quote a dev ,it's twisted by fan boys to mean something else.

You can say "he probably or he meant or it's possible" when what he said was "the ENTIRE game is solable" he said nothing about level process or WOW,that's you assuming because you can't imagine anything else but i am quoting a dev just like you fan boys like to do.

The definition of "the entire game is soloable" isn't assumption? Granted, if he didn't mean what you are implying, then this was a VERY poor choice of words on his part, but there is certainly a precedent of devs throwing around buzzwords incorrectly and confusing people.

He then went on to say you can group with friends if you want as well. He said nothing about group content being any different than solo content,he didn't say mobs are harder he didn't say loots better,all he said is that you can group up with friends if you prefer to group.

True, we'll have to wait and see what standard group content means. There's literally no info on this that I've seen.

He also said they have raids,well he didn't put any number to them raids,i could go out and raid a bank by myself. For all you know ,BioWare idea of raiding is nothing like what you are used to or WOW or you expect,it could be me and my posh pet called a companion for all you know.

I'm sorry, but you are REALLY stretching here. There's just no way a logical mind could come to that conclusion. Especially since the reason they made the "there will be raids" statement was to put people's minds at ease that were afraid the game wouldn't have the standard bullet points of an MMO. It makes no sense for them to say "this game isn't single player, it will have all the MMO standard stuff like crafting, raiding, pvp, etc" and then mean raiding as just you and your henchman solo. Sorry, just ....no. I suppose pvp meant you dueling your henchman solo as well, right?

As of now until they say anything different,i will have to go by a DEV word,you know someone who is actually making the game, that the "entire" game is solable.

And ignore the devs word that there are raids. I have to stretch the dev meaning of "entire game soloable" to mean like WoW, but you are stretching WAY more to define raids as "you and your henchman solo". That is the crux of my point. The former is FAR less stretching than the latter.

Are you saying the dev is lying about his own game?

Is the dev who said there will be raiding lying? To say there will be standard MMO features like raiding and then to *really* mean solo, would be a bold faced lie. The solo quote is less likely to be a lie as just a poor choice of words. When devs and marketers talk to interviewers, they usually don't realize  just how mercilessly rabid fans will pick apart their every word.

It's not as if he has come back and said "oh i didn't mean literally" nope he has let the comment stick.

I doubt the said dev in question hangs out here to see the shitstorm the comment has made yet. I'm sure he would clarify either way if he did.

Do i believe you a fan boy or do i actually believe what a dev has said out of his own month,you can't have it both ways.

I don't see why I qualify as a fanboy for pointing out logical inconsistencies. I wouldn't even mind if it were 100% soloable, so it's not like I'm in some kind of denial or something. Granted, I prefer a group option with higher rewards for the added level of effort in coordination with other players and tougher enemies, but I certainly wouldn't be butt-hurt if it wasn't the case. 

Bottom line is both of us have to stretch a quote from a dev to fit into what we think is the most likely truth. I just picked the one I found more logically sound.

So. Basically its single player RPG that you pay 15$ monthly to play ?

Way to go for MMOs

I guess genre is dead.

I am a Bioware fan, I love all their rpgs but the more I read the more I get the sense this game was designed to solo right from the start with the option for co-op play. It isn't horrible but I am not sure this is what the mmo crowd wanted from Bioware. Bioware needs to understand that the rpg crowd is so much different than the mmo crowd. You need to cater to the mmo crowd in a different way. If this game turns out to be something like Guild Wars but with less instancing then I will not be disappointed but I'll never quite understand why the devs are so stubborn in not giving players open seemless worlds to play in. If developers that made Mortal Online and Darkfall can give players open worlds I see no reason why the big companies can't.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I am a Bioware fan, I love all their rpgs but the more I read the more I get the sense this game was designed to solo right from the start with the option for co-op play. It isn't horrible but I am not sure this is what the mmo crowd wanted from Bioware. Bioware needs to understand that the rpg crowd is so much different than the mmo crowd. You need to cater to the mmo crowd in a different way. If this game turns out to be something like Guild Wars but with less instancing then I will not be disappointed but I'll never quite understand why the devs are so stubborn in not giving players open seemless worlds to play in. If developers that made Mortal Online and Darkfall can give players open worlds I see no reason why the big companies can't.

it's difficult to simulate open worlds. ever mmo has failed so far. EVE is the closest anyone has gotten, but both pve and pvp are fail in that game.but if anyone is to attempt something similar, they need to learn from CCP.

big open worlds are hard to regulate. it's difficult to decide which game rules to implement. without any rules, game will fail in terms of its gameplay; this is why developers are more focused on making a good, fun GAME as opposed to simulation.

MO and DF are two of the worst games to ever come from someone's imagination. creating an open world AND a good game is next to impossible.i doubt these two will exist as p2p in later 2010.

swtor will probably be a great game. one i will not play because i cant stand its childish graphics.... and for some reason it reeks of WoW to me, and does not feel like star wars at all. that being said, there is nothing MMO about it. it will be a PVE rpg game with the option of co-op. thats about it.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I am a Bioware fan, I love all their rpgs but the more I read the more I get the sense this game was designed to solo right from the start with the option for co-op play. It isn't horrible but I am not sure this is what the mmo crowd wanted from Bioware. Bioware needs to understand that the rpg crowd is so much different than the mmo crowd. You need to cater to the mmo crowd in a different way. If this game turns out to be something like Guild Wars but with less instancing then I will not be disappointed but I'll never quite understand why the devs are so stubborn in not giving players open seemless worlds to play in. If developers that made Mortal Online and Darkfall can give players open worlds I see no reason why the big companies can't.

Because so far, open worlds have proven to be be less popular (and less profitable) than the more recent model of soloable content within a "game" structure.

MO and DF Devs were willing to cater to a niche market and have budgets to match.  When a major house is going to put in $100M plus to make a game you'd better believe they're going to go for the largest subscriber base and that market doesn't favor virtual open world gameplay.

It appears we really are dinosaurs after all.

Originally posted by xphil3

Originally posted by Snob 

But this is what i mean, the fan boys want us to read the quotes from the devs and shut up but as soon as we quote a dev ,it's twisted by fan boys to mean something else.

You can say "he probably or he meant or it's possible" when what he said was "the ENTIRE game is solable" he said nothing about level process or WOW,that's you assuming because you can't imagine anything else but i am quoting a dev just like you fan boys like to do.

The definition of "the entire game is soloable" isn't assumption? Granted, if he didn't mean what you are implying, then this was a VERY poor choice of words on his part, but there is certainly a precedent of devs throwing around buzzwords incorrectly and confusing people.

Again, i am repeating what the dev said word for word,it's as simple as that.

He then went on to say you can group with friends if you want as well. He said nothing about group content being any different than solo content,he didn't say mobs are harder he didn't say loots better,all he said is that you can group up with friends if you prefer to group.

True, we'll have to wait and see what standard group content means. There's literally no info on this that I've seen.

He also said they have raids,well he didn't put any number to them raids,i could go out and raid a bank by myself. For all you know ,BioWare idea of raiding is nothing like what you are used to or WOW or you expect,it could be me and my posh pet called a companion for all you know.

I'm sorry, but you are REALLY stretching here. There's just no way a logical mind could come to that conclusion. Especially since the reason they made the "there will be raids" statement was to put people's minds at ease that were afraid the game wouldn't have the standard bullet points of an MMO. It makes no sense for them to say "this game isn't single player, it will have all the MMO standard stuff like crafting, raiding, pvp, etc" and then mean raiding as just you and your henchman solo. Sorry, just ....no. I suppose pvp meant you dueling your henchman solo as well, right?

sorry you have no proof of what you are saying,you know nothing about what bioware calls raids. It may not make sense to you but eveything you say here is what you believe and assume. You can't tell me what bioware calls raid or the numbers involed,it could mean me and my pet or it could mean more,you just don't know because like i said they have not said anything.

As of now until they say anything different,i will have to go by a DEV word,you know someone who is actually making the game, that the "entire" game is solable.

And ignore the devs word that there are raids. I have to stretch the dev meaning of "entire game soloable" to mean like WoW, but you are stretching WAY more to define raids as "you and your henchman solo". That is the crux of my point. The former is FAR less stretching than the latter.

See, you are making it up,when did i say there was no raiding in this game,all i said is you don't know the numbers   BioWare plans for raiding,do you? I am not strecthing anything ,i am repeating WORD FOR WORD what a DEV has said.

Are you saying the dev is lying about his own game?

Is the dev who said there will be raiding lying? To say there will be standard MMO features like raiding and then to *really* mean solo, would be a bold faced lie. The solo quote is less likely to be a lie as just a poor choice of words. When devs and marketers talk to interviewers, they usually don't realize  just how mercilessly rabid fans will pick apart their every word.

Again when did i say there will be know raiding? come on, paste my comment here saying "there will be know raiding in swtor?  Again i am repeating what a dev said,how can i be wrong?

It's not as if he has come back and said "oh i didn't mean literally" nope he has let the comment stick.

I doubt the said dev in question hangs out here to see the shitstorm the comment has made yet. I'm sure he would clarify either way if he did.

That's something you will have to take up with him,like i said i am repeating word for word what a dev said,are you saying he has made a mistake even though he said those words?

Do i believe you a fan boy or do i actually believe what a dev has said out of his own month,you can't have it both ways.

I don't see why I qualify as a fanboy for pointing out logical inconsistencies. I wouldn't even mind if it were 100% soloable, so it's not like I'm in some kind of denial or something. Granted, I prefer a group option with higher rewards for the added level of effort in coordination with other players and tougher enemies, but I certainly wouldn't be butt-hurt if it wasn't the case. 

You are not pointing out anything other than the fact a DEV has stated that this game is "entirely solable" his words not mine.

Bottom line is both of us have to stretch a quote from a dev to fit into what we think is the most likely truth. I just picked the one I found more logically sound.

 Again i have not stretch anything at all.i have repeated word for word what a dev has said about his own game,not a mod from these forums or a hater orr a fanboy,it's a SWTOR dev saying this not me.

 You can't have it both ways,he said it or he didn't,in this case he did say these word real clear "the entire game is solable" you can think in your head..nah he couldn't of meant that but the fact is he said it and until you can link me a quote from another dev saying that the game is NOT entirely solable, i guess i have to take the dev word,right?

They said they have raiding,erm they didn't say numbers or anything else,it could be 1-1000 for all you know or me. One thing i can be sure of is that a DEV has said this game is entirely solable,that is fact and can be backed up with links.

I don't have to prove anything,i have a devs quote which proves what i am saying, yours is speculation.

Don't worry though because as soon as that beta starts we will know everything we need to know about this game,the leaker's will be leaking all over the interwebs. Make no mistake bioware will not be treated any different than the other mmorpg dev teams.

If they are hiding anything then i would rather hear it from them than a leaker,you know it's that trust thing.

$15 a month to play a single-player game? No thanks...

I think as long as they can keep adding good story arcs and  content  to the game then it probably would be worth my $15 a month. Otherwise I am  not so sure.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I am a Bioware fan, I love all their rpgs but the more I read the more I get the sense this game was designed to solo right from the start with the option for co-op play. It isn't horrible but I am not sure this is what the mmo crowd wanted from Bioware. Bioware needs to understand that the rpg crowd is so much different than the mmo crowd. You need to cater to the mmo crowd in a different way. If this game turns out to be something like Guild Wars but with less instancing then I will not be disappointed but I'll never quite understand why the devs are so stubborn in not giving players open seemless worlds to play in. If developers that made Mortal Online and Darkfall can give players open worlds I see no reason why the big companies can't.

It just comes down to at the end of the day people just don't like open worlds. If they did then the two games you mentioned and the myrid of others would be flooded with players.

Seemless worlds themselfs bring alot of issues along with them. The biggest being how do you make a seemless world that feels alive and populated.  

If you play Mortal Online and Darkfall you will notice there are large portions of the world where there just isn't much of anything there. The worlds themself do not feel alive or teeming with activity other then what players make. Then you have the whole issue of making the client seemless and then the backend has to be designed for a seemless world, ect.

Seemless worlds are a thing of the past and well they just didn't work once the MMO Genre went mainstream. Most MMO players like an experienced tailered to themselfs and thats just something you can not accoumplish with a seemless world. Atleast not with the technology we have at this time.

I like how people are taking the dev's quote that you can solo the game if you want to mean that its just a single player game. Heck I can solo WoW from 1-70 without ever grouping..  Does that make WoW a single player game?  Heck I can log into Darkfall and do nothing but craft and kill mobs all by myself without ever grouping.. Does that make Darkfall a single player game? Heck I can log into CO, CoX, AoC, ect and solo from level 1 to the cap if I so choose to do so.

Just because you have an OPTION to do something one way doesn't mean that is the ONLY way to do that. I hate how people are taking something as simple as the option to solo to mean its the only way to do it. Just because the game doesn't force grouping does not make it any less of a MMO as what we currently have on the market.

Has anyone seen my "Jump To Conclusions" mat?  Jeez, guys, don't just assume everything.  I'm just going to wait until I see how it plays out.

Originally posted by xphil3

Originally posted by trophic

I can read this: "...the entire game is soloable...'.

The devs also said there would be raids. While it's possible the dev who said the entire game was soloable meant the level process is solo to max like WoW, I don't think it's possible to use the term raid and have it mean a single player. The "entire game is soloable" is probably out of context.

That might possibly be the case but, as we are becoming aware, Bioware uses MMORPG terms in ways that most MMORPGers would not understand. Here's hoping that there will be extremely large and varied dungeons that take ten or 25 people half an hour to four hours to complete - but since they also say 'SWTOR is a massive multiplayer game' and then say 'the entire game is soloable', who can be sure?