Originally posted by zymurgeist

 

. True Communism is one step away from total anarchy. Go read Marx, Engels and Plato's Utopia. Pay special attention to the part about the "withering away of the state."

Why bore yourself with those snooze fests when you can watch the Smurfs. No Papa Smurf wasn't a dictator, he simply played an advisory role.

Your not kidding either about anarchy. Look at Jokey and his knowledge of controlled explosives. .... and Brainy... never trust him. He's always up to something.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Thillian

 

What?! Are you trying to say that communism has a good intention? You mean planned economy is a good intention? To control people how much they should consume is a good intention?

 

That's Socialism not Communism. A true Communist society has no central authority and decisions are made collectively. It relies on the fiction that people behave rationally and unselfishly.

Communism and planned economy are tied together. There was no communism regime without planned economy. Communism is against any sort of private property. Everything is being shared by the community (which indeed is absurd and impossible) hence, it always was about central government planning and owning everything.
 

 

 

. True Communism is one step away from total anarchy. Go read Marx, Engels and Plato's Utopia. Pay special attention to the part about the "withering away of the state."

 

I lived in communism, while you only read about it. That's the difference between me and you.

That's why I said that communism had 'good intentions'.  The way it was implemented was a horror (I am originally from Poland).  You can have amazing ideas and the best intentions but if you do not implement them right, you will get a nightmare.  Whether comunism can ever be 'implemented right' is a whole another discussion.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Originally posted by Torik

If I were to support things just based on 'good intentions'  I would be supporting communism.  In the end it is the implementation that matters.  If a game has great implementation I really do not care what their intentions were.

What if we replaced the word "Intention" with "Foundation"?

A 'good foundation' implies that there uis something to actually invest yourself in if you want.    On the other hand a house with a great foundation can still have a roof that leaks and plumbing that makes the toilets explode.

I a firm believer that if a game is good, it will sell on its own merits.  As such the best way to 'support' it is to make sure that a clear picture of its strengths and flaws is presented to the public.  If you misrepresent reality, you will only harm the game.

To the OP: You do realize this is a game, correct? It's not a movement. It's not a work of art. It's not going to do anything but entertain. It is a product. A product designed to entertain and make someone else money for their time and investment. Nothing more. Nothing to "support".

OP, let me ask you, have you been gazed apon by the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

I hope the game does well but after a few days i uninstalled it because it was just  too much for my pos pc. I even think games like Df have their place though with it having first person and ffapvp you would never find me there.

 I wish them well, but I tried it in beta and it just wasn't for me.

Played it for 2 months then got bored, cancelled Sub

Might try it again in the new year but I was basically soloing the entire game and that sucked

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Originally posted by Comnitus

Sub-par products should not be given a kiss on the forehead and a bandaid when they have boo-boos just because they have "good intentions".

I'm not saying FE is sub-par. But it sounds like the OP would make the same post about, say, Darkfall, which attracts (most) people because of its gameplay mechanics, not its quality. Every company needs to be judged on its own merits and what it delivers. I don't care if it's an indie company or a billion-dollar corrupt megacorporation. If they deliver, they earn my respect. If not, they don't.

As a side note, I like how mounts remain in the game world where players leave them. I think all MMOs should do that.

Edit: I suppose I "support" the game because I like some things about it and I would speak well of the developers' intentions, though I don't think I'll try it yet. Perhaps when it has had time to improve a little.

 

Ironic coming from an EVE player, no offense.

Yeah. I'm sure if it launched yesterday, I wouldn't be playing it. But, if you haven't noticed, it's been 7 years (close enough to 2010, which is only... what... 14 hours away for me). Today, it more than delivers based on its own merits. I'm not playing it because it has "good intentions" (it's a sandbox), I'm playing it because it's high quality, run by a decent company, and is very complex and interesting.

Also, Jive, I only mentioned Darkfall because it also has "good intentions", if I understood your definition of them correctly. However, it's apparent that FE has just struck a certain vibe, which is fine. Still, I have to agree with others in this thread; take a step back. Right now, you're what Glenn Beck is to conservatism (and I'm conservative-libertarian, so I'm embarrassed by the guy). It's great to support a cause, but don't feel like if you don't support it ardently, no one will and the game will DIEEEEEEEEE A HORIBLE DEATH!!!!!!!!!

It'll be just fine.

I "support" (both purchase and subscribe) most independant MMORPG's and continually do so, the grass roots games are more so about the game and their own vision as opposed to "make something that the masses will buy and make us rich" and while yes there are those exceptions out there, I feel for the most part the indy games are worth supporting.

While many indy's aren't running the hottest latest gaming engine, with the best graphics etc. The games usually come close or pretty damn close to what the designers and developers original vision was. All the "AAA" title games you can rest asure that there is some big corporate non gaming fat cat investor or publisher cracking the whip like a vikiing slave ship yelling STROKE! and then dump 70% of their overall budget into advertising to hype a game up trying to turn dog crap into diamonds expecting subs in the millions, where a sub for 200k - 500k was a "success" before WOW came along.

Todays gamers don't get this... they have the "flea on crystal meth" attention span and feel that every game should be designed around them and their own individual wants and needs, and when the game doesn't do so they will rant "This game f'n sucks!!!" yet continue to play it and continue to bitch about it.

I will continually support indy games (whether I enjoy the game or not) because they are all trying to help shape the future of gaming so that it isn't only up to the mega corps.

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

Originally posted by Comnitus

 

I thank you for a very fleshed out and intelligent response. I do have to disagree with you about me supporting Darkfall. I would not blindly support anything, especially Darkfall which I akin to a "7 year long cock tease".

The game isnt like Darkfall, they didnt advertise it, in your face for years, I barely knew anything about the title. But playing it, I knew from the moment I got into the open seamless world, that I wanted this game to improve.

 

I was gonna agree with you in the fact that we should support independent studios using new ideas until I read this. I've now decided that I'll point out only the negatives of FE to any friends that inquire about the game and do my best to turn them away. Am I being childish? Yes. Petty? Yes. Even pathetic? Yes. But what the hell, atleast I'm not being a hippocrit!

As for hippocrits I cracked up laughing reading about the EVE fanbois that thought you shouldn't give support for new games from independent studios unless they were in a good state! Did he ever play EVE at launch?

BTW DFO was more like a 10 year long cock tease, but some women are worth waiting for you know? The ones that give themselves up easy usually end up as being a one nightstand that you regret the next day!

The only one being a "hypocrite" (Correct Spelling), would be you. Darkfall and Fallen Earth are two totally different types of independent games. Darkfall for years was In your face, about how it was going to be the best game, how it was going to revolutionize the genre. Thats why it was a cock tease. 

Its the same thing as if there was a Small Deli that put a sign up and it said:

"Best subs in Town, You will literally never find a better Sandwhich....coming soon!"

And then three years went by, and during that time, they sent out flyers, and had people get on the radio and on TV, and say how good the deli was going to be.

And then it opened, and of course, some people fell into the hype and others didnt, most though just didnt even show up for the grand opening because it was just a shady business they were running.

And thats what I think of when I think DFO, Shady.

So I have my reasons for not showing my full support for them after launch. Now when I say full support I mean, I wouldnt make a thread about DFO like I did for Fallen Earth.

I still go onto youtube videos and throwdown with people calling it a UO Clone, and things like that.

Thats what Im saying theres different levels of support, im just asking that everyone look at what people are trying to do independenly to change the genre, and support them.

 I support FE because I enjoy it and gladly pay my sub. That said the OP is a tad on the creepy side. No one has an obligation to support anything. They do it simply because they want to.

I kind of see the OP's point.

When an indy company comes in and tries to change things up a bit, they should have the backing of gamers in one way or the other to expand the genre.  Otherwise we get what we've had for the last several years, the same old, same old stale MMO development.

I think the one poster above was right, many gamers say they want something different but the reality is they want what they're used to in a different wrapper.

All that being said, I do think the OP is a bit over zealous in his/her attempt to get his/her point across.

*EDIT*

To the poster that said FE is like WoW I have to ask, did you really play the game as you stated or are you just parroting the hater phrase of the day because FE is NOTHING like WoW at all.  Oh wait I'm wrong, it has quests just like WoW, oh, oh..and crafting too....I get it now. 

/sarcasm

I support Fallen Earth - I purchased the game, have a subscription and speak well of the game on forums - partly because the game caught my imagination, partly because I have respect for Icarus and partly because of the reasons the OP puts forward.

Unfortunately, I've largely stopped playing and I'm likely to stop my subscription. Many parts of the game appeal to me but the overall package hasn't kept me wanting to play.

I think many of the responses here have shown a general level of support for Indy developers, such as Icarus, by a willingness to look beyond the AAA titles and give games that aren't mainstream a whirl, i.e. we bought FE and gave it a fair go. Anything beyond this is, as other posters have said, isn't really appropriate in a commercial setting.

From the start of hearing about FE they haven't deserved my support. To me, FE piggy backed off of Fallout3's success and haven't done much that is remarkable or different than a combination of ideas from other mmos. For me to give my full support without them doing anything dramatic would be wrong; it should be earned. I do commend them on boldly being different than all the fantasy mmos, though.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

To the poster that said FE is like WoW I have to ask, did you really play the game as you stated or are you just parroting the hater phrase of the day because FE is NOTHING like WoW at all.  Oh wait I'm wrong, it has quests just like WoW, oh, oh..and crafting too....I get it now. 

FE is a lot like WoW, claiming otherwise is ludicrous. Is it just like WoW? No, hardly, but the framework is very similar. Linear progression, A + B = C  crafting (albeit more of it), questing as a primary means of progression, and extraordinarily poorly thought out PvP (though at least in WoW you don't have to worry about your own faction stabbing you in the back -- literally -- at no cost to them) tacked on as an afterthought.

Certainly it's different in a lot of ways, both small and large, but most of those are more differences of degree then kind, and many are not exactly things to brag about. No fast travel? Sounds great, until your clanmate in Oilville needs help and the closest anyone is to them is New Flagstaff. AP through quests? Really, who thought that was a good idea? 117 AP in S1 quests plus spinning the wheel (14-odd AP per faction on average in S2 alone, not to mention mut lines)? God save me from that kind of "innovation". Classless system? Amusingly enough on the FE forums your weapon specialization (with or without a "crafter" prefix depending on if you max per/int) is referred to as your class, because essentially it is -- ironically classless systems tend to result in less, not more, diversity -- how many rifles do you see who aren't Vista? No raids or dungeons (well, unless you count Kingman Prison and one or two others you'll run through and then try and forget exist)? That'd be great, if they'd actually replaced them with something else instead of left things a barren and boring (lack of) endgame.

Fundamentally that's probably FE's biggest problem. Its much vaunted "innovation" primarily consists of removing things common in other MMOs. Problem is, they didn't replace them with anything. See, a game with no raids! How wonderful! How innovative! Yeah, except games like WoW and LoTRO don't have raids just for the fun of it, they serve a purpose. Remove raids by all means, I'm certainly not a fan of them, but you have to put something in their place if you want a playerbase to stick around.

To Myria:

As much as I dislike the tone of your message, I have to admit you're right at all points (not really focusing on the WoW comparison, but the cons of FE). I've been playing 5+ hours every day for the last couple of months until Christmas + my week off came along. I finally had all the time in the world to log in, do some AP grinding and get some toons to 45, but when I sat down in front of my PC I just stared at the screen. There was no real motivation left. Rushing to 45 sounded nice, but when I thought about it; I figured what's the use? No real end game to rush to, just hours of AP farming to look forward to. So I said fuck it and walked over to my bed and went back to sleep.

I wanted to.

I just disagree with how the devs are developing the game.

Its too quest focused, it actually has an endgame (not supposed to happen in a Sandbox game) and you can actually repair gear? Why bother having a 100% craftable item system?

OH and the game needs more of a reason to pvp, im sorry pvping for fucking points is so lame in a sandboxy game.

Originally posted by jiveturkey12

 but right off the bat I can say because the games intentions deserves merit.

But there is a difference between "intentions", and "reality".

I will gladly support a game that is great in reality. I will even support a game that has intentions to be great if it is in an alpha or beta cycle, as I did Fallen Earth. I will not support a game that has "intentions" to be great someday when it's already been released for awhile.

I usually play 2 mmos(or a at least subscribe to 2) at a time.  Reason being to find a game I LIKE.

I bought FE, paid for 3 months and just recently cancelled.  I also picked back up FFXI.  I only get about 18-20 hours a week of gaming in if that, sometimes only 10 hours.  If I had an hour or 2 only, I would play FE.  If I had a longer session, FFXI would happen.\

The game is fun in small spurts.  I think the repetition as well my weak PC led to my cancelling.

This game was made to cater to a certain group of people.  The Devs at FE never made the game in hopes of hitting 1 million subscribers, their aim is to get enough hard-core devoted fans to keep the game going on forever, and they will achieve that with ease as everyone I've met that loves it as much as I do, loves/hates all the same things in the MMORPG history of the past 10+ years, this is a good sign for me.

The part about patience is true, most people who try new MMOs expect the game to be finished.  WoW was far from finished when it was first launched, it was buggy, crashed, and clunky, it had no end game for what, 5-6 months?  But the thing about WoW is before Molten Core came out it was an amazing game, it was up to the players to make it fun, and the community did that very well.  But then raids were introducer and super "phat lewt" and it crippled the game's PvP and open-endness for myself and many of my friends who come from games like UO pre-trammal and SWG pre-cu.

FE only has one way to go, up.