Originally posted by JestorRodo

 From: news.softpedia.com/news/DC-Universe-Online-Ditches-Classes-Introduces-Stances-102082.shtml

 

DC Universe Online Ditches Classes, Introduces Stances
Could this be a big MMO shift?

By Andrei Dumitrescu, Games Editor

15th of January 2009, 21:45 GMT

Adjust text size:

You could be just like him
Enlarge picture
Sony Online Entertainment presented its upcoming PC and PlayStation 3 MMO, DC Universe Online, at the recently concluded Consumer Electronics Show 2009 and there's new stuff about the game that MMO players and fans of the comic book universe will find very interesting.

The big reveal related to the way the super hero MMO will work is that traditional party roles, which have made their way into MMOs coming from the Dungeons & Dragons ( they mean WoW) background, are being abandoned in favor of a new approach based on “stances.” Basically, all characters can adopt an offensive stance, becoming a DPS class, a defensive stance, becoming a tank, or a support stance, which fits neatly into the role played by the healer class. This will give DC Universe Online a new level of flexibility in the creation of groups and parties.

Sony is trying to make sure that players don't spend a lot of time looking for a party, with one preview noting that something akin to the public quest system from Warhammer Online will be implemented, with players fighting together through an instance without being part of the same group.

There will be four main characteristics defining a character in DC Universe Online. The “Super power” characteristic allows the player to choose their offensive power, “power source” generates a weapon to use, “movement modes” allows the player to choose if they want to fly or float into battle and other options are put into a “traits” group.

It's nice to see that the people at Sony Online Entertainment have also thought about those poor souls that don't have the time or the interest to fiddle with a lot of sliders in a character creation screen. Players can also choose to select one super hero from the vast DC Universe line up of heroes, like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern or any other, in order to be “inspired by” his powers and get right into the fight. ENDQUOTE

So basically its a clone of WoW and WoW is a clone of EQ(a SoE product).So that makes SoE games what again?
 

I don’t really think WoW is a clone of EQ as stated in the post above. I find these games to be pretty different in game play mechanics. WoW is much more linear, it is faster paced, raiding and grouping are handled differently, leveling is different, etc. However, I also don’t believe this game sounds like a WoW clone either. I disagree with what the original poster has stated in his/her attempt to show the similarities. Actually, I find that most of the points are showing how it isn’t a WoW clone. In fact, it could be argued that Blizzard copied SOE’s idea when they implemented dual spec in WoW; although I think this is would be as far of a stretch as saying that DC Universe Online is a WoW clone.

Anyway, I have to agree with ILty-Cat about how so many people seem to call every MMO a clone of WoW. With that argument we may as well say every game created is just a clone of Pong, considering it was the first video game. And, there were plenty of MMOs that WoW had borrowed ideas from during its development. Does that make it a clone of all these other MMOs? Not really. I believe that in order for a game to be a clone, every aspect of it must be the same. From what I am reading about this game, that seems to be far from the case.

---

Originally posted by grim_skunk
I don’t really think WoW is a clone of EQ as stated in the post above. I find these games to be pretty different in game play mechanics. WoW is much more linear, it is faster paced, raiding and grouping are handled differently, leveling is different, etc. However, I also don’t believe this game sounds like a WoW clone either. I disagree with what the original poster has stated in his/her attempt to show the similarities. Actually, I find that most of the points are showing how it isn’t a WoW clone. In fact, it could be argued that Blizzard copied SOE’s idea when they implemented dual spec in WoW; although I think this is would be as far of a stretch as saying that DC Universe Online is a WoW clone.
Anyway, I have to agree with ILty-Cat about how so many people seem to call every MMO a clone of WoW. With that argument we may as well say every game created is just a clone of Pong, considering it was the first video game. And, there were plenty of MMOs that WoW had borrowed ideas from during its development. Does that make it a clone of all these other MMOs? Not really. I believe that in order for a game to be a clone, every aspect of it must be the same. From what I am reading about this game, that seems to be far from the case.

---

Actually, WOW is not that different from EQ1 at all.
1. Create a character by choosing a specific race and adjust the stats a bit at creation.

2. Get dumped off in a starting area and start doing quests which give items and experience as rewards.

3. Continue to gain experience through quests and killing mobs in order to gain character levels.

4. Kill Named mobs for a chance to gain Uber Loot.

5. Increase certain stats through repetition. IE, Armorcraft gains a point when you craft a leather boot, etc.

6. Classes are broke down into Tanks, Healers, Casters, and Melee DPS.

7. End Game is comprised of instanced areas which requires a very large group of people to esentially defeat the Boss Mob of the dungeon.

8. Even the default UI is broken down the same. Character Portrait, Target Portrait/Name, Hotbars, Compass, Action type menus, .... All basically the same. Graphics may be different and there may be a few small extra bells and whistles but the basic format is the same.

I could list many more simularities between the 2 games but I dont have that long. Suffice it to say that even WOW stated that they based their game largely on the EQ1 format.
Does that make WOW a EQ1 clone? Not at all. But to state that there is a WOW clone out there is simply wrong, as WOW based their game on EQ1 format, making all games using that same basic format an EQ1 clone.

Do we go around saying that a Ford Mustang is a clone of the first automobile built in 1769? No. Why not? They both have a steering wheel, 4 wheels, a chasis, and an engine.
The answer is that even when things are simular they are not classified as Clones.
WOW and EQ1 are no more clones than Brad Pitt and myself are.

I haven't played EQ in a very long time, so I may be wrong in the comparison. I played in 1999. I found the bells and whistles to be what made it different. EQ seemed so slow, with tougher monsters, wasn't based on quests or leveling in certain zones (ie. I recall people killing monsters in one of the desert areas at level 20, and there were others in their 40s killing giants in the same zone; which didnt happen in WoW - again, this has been a while also). A lot of down time in EQ, it isn't quest based (quests when I played gave very little reward and exp) which is very different from WoW. Grouping and raiding was different - WoW seemed to have a bunch of surround and pound 25 man raids, where EQs raids were massive and required more planning and execution, etc. etc.

I realize that they are both MMOs and video games, so there are similarities. My point was, in my opinion, it is a stretch to say that one is a clone of the other. Technically, you could say they are all clones of earlier MMOs or earlier video games in general. And, I am sure there are a lot of similarities between the two - however, there are also, from what I experienced and remember of the games, a lot of differences. It is the differences that make me believe they aren't clones.

With that said, I have no idea what the games are like now, as I haven't played them in years. I am basing it on my memory from years ago.

OMG I cant believe what I've been reading DCUO a WoW clone hahahahaha apparently you been playing WoW so much that the real world is starting to look like a WoW clone to ya lol what race is your boss(if you have one) Orc or Night Elf do you tease him for not having epic gear does your lady friend(if lol you got one) have epic panties ooooook i had my fun.

But the truth is DCUO is in no way like WoW in any form after playing the demo at the SD Comic Con has more of a comic book action feel to it then CoX an CO it fast pace and easy to learn and easy to get into it's just going to be awsome. and as for you SWG vets and Soe haters and WoW fanatics you people are just addicted to bitching and complaining for no reason.

Originally posted by Revel

Here is your WoW clone:

 

http://www.freerealms.com/

Rofl this game looks like World of Warcraft locations with Sims2 player models.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by DeaconX

Sorry Rodo, can't agree with you on this one... When I look at DCU and the game it's aiming to be, I do NOT see WoW... if I did, I'd be far less interested...

 

 I would love to have the sliders to customize my avatar - this is going to be land of 1000 Batman Wantabee.

Clearly you don't play Champions Online.  Batmans, Ironmans, Supermans etc. everywhere.

I'm completely unimpressed by champions online and cryptic at this point... it's a pretty pathetic excuse for an MMORPG at this stage in the MMO game.  My money is on DCUO doing it better and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they destroy Cryptic's lackluster Champions Online.

Originally posted by Vespers

 

---

Originally posted by grim_skunk
I don’t really think WoW is a clone of EQ as stated in the post above. I find these games to be pretty different in game play mechanics. WoW is much more linear, it is faster paced, raiding and grouping are handled differently, leveling is different, etc. However, I also don’t believe this game sounds like a WoW clone either. I disagree with what the original poster has stated in his/her attempt to show the similarities. Actually, I find that most of the points are showing how it isn’t a WoW clone. In fact, it could be argued that Blizzard copied SOE’s idea when they implemented dual spec in WoW; although I think this is would be as far of a stretch as saying that DC Universe Online is a WoW clone.
Anyway, I have to agree with ILty-Cat about how so many people seem to call every MMO a clone of WoW. With that argument we may as well say every game created is just a clone of Pong, considering it was the first video game. And, there were plenty of MMOs that WoW had borrowed ideas from during its development. Does that make it a clone of all these other MMOs? Not really. I believe that in order for a game to be a clone, every aspect of it must be the same. From what I am reading about this game, that seems to be far from the case.

---

 

Actually, WOW is not that different from EQ1 at all.
1. Create a character by choosing a specific race and adjust the stats a bit at creation.

2. Get dumped off in a starting area and start doing quests which give items and experience as rewards.

3. Continue to gain experience through quests and killing mobs in order to gain character levels.

4. Kill Named mobs for a chance to gain Uber Loot.

5. Increase certain stats through repetition. IE, Armorcraft gains a point when you craft a leather boot, etc.

6. Classes are broke down into Tanks, Healers, Casters, and Melee DPS.

7. End Game is comprised of instanced areas which requires a very large group of people to esentially defeat the Boss Mob of the dungeon.

8. Even the default UI is broken down the same. Character Portrait, Target Portrait/Name, Hotbars, Compass, Action type menus, .... All basically the same. Graphics may be different and there may be a few small extra bells and whistles but the basic format is the same.

I could list many more simularities between the 2 games but I dont have that long. Suffice it to say that even WOW stated that they based their game largely on the EQ1 format.
Does that make WOW a EQ1 clone? Not at all. But to state that there is a WOW clone out there is simply wrong, as WOW based their game on EQ1 format, making all games using that same basic format an EQ1 clone.

Do we go around saying that a Ford Mustang is a clone of the first automobile built in 1769? No. Why not? They both have a steering wheel, 4 wheels, a chasis, and an engine.
The answer is that even when things are simular they are not classified as Clones.
WOW and EQ1 are no more clones than Brad Pitt and myself are.

Wow was a lot like eq1 in a lot of ways except that wow was heavily solo quest driven where eq1 was mostly group mob kill driven.

Wow combat was also a big improvement over eq1 with many original ideas especially for melee classes.  eq1 was adding some stuff to make things better when wow came out but wow had the advantage of completely designing a new system from scratch.

Most of the stuff pointed out here as being unique to wow really wasn't. I think thing the two items I listed above were the big things that wow did that were major differences.

Other then the obvious stuff which was graphical changes and enhancements.

Wow basically redefined MMOs from the eq1 model to the wow model.  The key points wow implemented were removal of death penalties, free fast travel, quest based leveling, solo gameplay orientation, generally made things easy and painless.  While trying to add PvP and Keep end game raids modeled after eq1 but scaled down to smaller groups.

I see DC Online roles as a new evolution which I find kinda hard to believe will actually work well.  I'm afraid it will end up being like CO where everyone is a bland similar version of every other player and groups have no structure.  I mean playing a role and playing it well takes some practice and experience.  If you are casually switching back and forth you aren't likely going to be very good at any role.

On a plus note though SoE does have a lot of experience building good epic encounters and raids.  EQ1 was built on raids and EQ2 has very good raids as well.  A super hero type game does seem like it would work well with a raid type encounter.

I'm also happy that DCU appears to be keeping with the superhero concept of being more then just powers but basing them on something and giving it some logical structure.  CO went with an approach of making every class be able to take any power making it all just picking the best power in any catagory.

I hope that DCU can create a world that feels like a super hero world with good super hero encounters.  This is another area where I feel that CO really falls down.  The CO world feels kinda silly with dancing robots, ghost towns, undead stuff, etc.  It isn't that anything is particularly bad with any of the mobs but there is a lack of a super hero feel or any continuity.  Things need to be more strongly tied into super villians or something that fits together more.  CO feels to much like someone just made some mobs and threw them down in an area and added a bunch of kill quests...

Anyway so far it is kinda hard to tell what DCU will be like.  I know I'm looking forward to learning more about it.

Most MMORPG are the same. Some have same design, story, characters, world, class, professions and so on. Fantasy with dragons and magic or Sci-Fi with aliens. Nothing new.

Just like movies. Alla drama movies have drama, action have action and porn have porn.

.....

Originally posted by JestorRodo

 From: news.softpedia.com/news/DC-Universe-Online-Ditches-Classes-Introduces-Stances-102082.shtml

 

DC Universe Online Ditches Classes, Introduces Stances
Could this be a big MMO shift?

By Andrei Dumitrescu, Games Editor

15th of January 2009, 21:45 GMT

Adjust text size:

You could be just like him
Enlarge picture
Sony Online Entertainment presented its upcoming PC and PlayStation 3 MMO, DC Universe Online, at the recently concluded Consumer Electronics Show 2009 and there's new stuff about the game that MMO players and fans of the comic book universe will find very interesting.

The big reveal related to the way the super hero MMO will work is that traditional party roles, which have made their way into MMOs coming from the Dungeons & Dragons ( they mean WoW) background, are being abandoned in favor of a new approach based on “stances.” Basically, all characters can adopt an offensive stance, becoming a DPS class, a defensive stance, becoming a tank, or a support stance, which fits neatly into the role played by the healer class. This will give DC Universe Online a new level of flexibility in the creation of groups and parties.

Sony is trying to make sure that players don't spend a lot of time looking for a party, with one preview noting that something akin to the public quest system from Warhammer Online will be implemented, with players fighting together through an instance without being part of the same group.

There will be four main characteristics defining a character in DC Universe Online. The “Super power” characteristic allows the player to choose their offensive power, “power source” generates a weapon to use, “movement modes” allows the player to choose if they want to fly or float into battle and other options are put into a “traits” group.

It's nice to see that the people at Sony Online Entertainment have also thought about those poor souls that don't have the time or the interest to fiddle with a lot of sliders in a character creation screen. Players can also choose to select one super hero from the vast DC Universe line up of heroes, like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern or any other, in order to be “inspired by” his powers and get right into the fight. ENDQUOTE

DCU is a WoW clone, real life is also a WoW clone. Every thing ever done, said, felt, heard throughout history was done 1st in WoW. The thoughts you are thinking now? WoW did that and you copied thoughts from them! /end sarcasm

WoW is an EQ clone...

The heading of this thread alone could make universal logic disappear up it's own ass.

Originally posted by GTwander

WoW is an EQ clone...

The heading of this thread alone could make universal logic disappear up it's own ass.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

 From: news.softpedia.com/news/DC-Universe-Online-Ditches-Classes-Introduces-Stances-102082.shtml

 

DC Universe Online Ditches Classes, Introduces Stances
Could this be a big MMO shift?

By Andrei Dumitrescu, Games Editor

15th of January 2009, 21:45 GMT

Adjust text size:

You could be just like him
Enlarge picture
Sony Online Entertainment presented its upcoming PC and PlayStation 3 MMO, DC Universe Online, at the recently concluded Consumer Electronics Show 2009 and there's new stuff about the game that MMO players and fans of the comic book universe will find very interesting.

The big reveal related to the way the super hero MMO will work is that traditional party roles, which have made their way into MMOs coming from the Dungeons & Dragons ( they mean WoW) background, are being abandoned in favor of a new approach based on “stances.” Basically, all characters can adopt an offensive stance, becoming a DPS class, a defensive stance, becoming a tank, or a support stance, which fits neatly into the role played by the healer class. This will give DC Universe Online a new level of flexibility in the creation of groups and parties.

Sony is trying to make sure that players don't spend a lot of time looking for a party, with one preview noting that something akin to the public quest system from Warhammer Online will be implemented, with players fighting together through an instance without being part of the same group.

There will be four main characteristics defining a character in DC Universe Online. The “Super power” characteristic allows the player to choose their offensive power, “power source” generates a weapon to use, “movement modes” allows the player to choose if they want to fly or float into battle and other options are put into a “traits” group.

It's nice to see that the people at Sony Online Entertainment have also thought about those poor souls that don't have the time or the interest to fiddle with a lot of sliders in a character creation screen. Players can also choose to select one super hero from the vast DC Universe line up of heroes, like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern or any other, in order to be “inspired by” his powers and get right into the fight. ENDQUOTE

The "they mean WoW" comment cracks me up every time i see it. Just because WoW was this persons first run in with a class based rpg they think WoW created it. To paraphrase Kurt Cobain, just because its happening to you doesnt mean its new, why this person thinks its something fresh is beyond me. D&D/Chainmail was created a few decades before any warcraft game lol.

Originally posted by GTwander

WoW is an EQ clone...

The heading of this thread alone could make universal logic disappear up it's own ass.

this made me laugh for a solid 5 min. thank you for that! its so true and yet so funny.

Originally posted by JestorRodo

Originally posted by DeaconX

Sorry Rodo, can't agree with you on this one... When I look at DCU and the game it's aiming to be, I do NOT see WoW... if I did, I'd be far less interested...

 

  That's ok DX , The Base class are Paladin , Hunter, Cleric are to Superman , Batman and Wonder Woman (like). It really appears the same Dummy-down that SOE did with the NGE  of SWG . I am sure one of the reason was to make it PS3 and PC easy for players to use ----Just like WoW.

 

 I would love to have the sliders to customize my avatar - this is going to be land of 1000 Batman Wantabee.

 

 

 

"Players can also choose to select one super hero from the vast DC Universe line up of heroes, like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern or any other, in order to be “inspired by” his powers and get right into the fight."

You will have the sliders... so not sure what your saying. 

In any case with or without the sliders or customization you would have a land of 1000 Batmans and Supermans. Go check out CO if you don't believe that lol. Tons of customization options and still there were so many Clones it was beyond sad. 

Originally posted by GTwander

WoW is an EQ clone...

The heading of this thread alone could make universal logic disappear up it's own ass.

That's the first thing I thought when I read the title lol

Sigh.  The OP's SOE hatred is truly loony and not even funny loony.  That is not a flame, it is just the truth.  Get over SWG already.

They did not copy WoW.  They copied the stance idea from Champions Online.  This is not even debatable.  I am not even sure why because people did not really use it in CO.  Then again it was not implemented that well in CO.

SOE (Shit on Everyone) has a track record of epic fail so big it could make  a 10 lane highway to the moon and still have enough left over to make DCUO fail as hard as SWG and Not Free at all Realms.

I honestly think the OP of this thread isn't willing to discuss the topic further. His hatred of SoE is pretty deep and that hatred seems to prevent him from seeing any other side of a spectrum but his own.

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by Sortis

Originally posted by JestorRodo

 From: news.softpedia.com/news/DC-Universe-Online-Ditches-Classes-Introduces-Stances-102082.shtml

 

DC Universe Online Ditches Classes, Introduces Stances
Could this be a big MMO shift?

By Andrei Dumitrescu, Games Editor

15th of January 2009, 21:45 GMT

Adjust text size:

You could be just like him
Enlarge picture
Sony Online Entertainment presented its upcoming PC and PlayStation 3 MMO, DC Universe Online, at the recently concluded Consumer Electronics Show 2009 and there's new stuff about the game that MMO players and fans of the comic book universe will find very interesting.

The big reveal related to the way the super hero MMO will work is that traditional party roles, which have made their way into MMOs coming from the Dungeons & Dragons ( they mean WoW) background, are being abandoned in favor of a new approach based on “stances.” Basically, all characters can adopt an offensive stance, becoming a DPS class, a defensive stance, becoming a tank, or a support stance, which fits neatly into the role played by the healer class. This will give DC Universe Online a new level of flexibility in the creation of groups and parties.

Sony is trying to make sure that players don't spend a lot of time looking for a party, with one preview noting that something akin to the public quest system from Warhammer Online will be implemented, with players fighting together through an instance without being part of the same group.

There will be four main characteristics defining a character in DC Universe Online. The “Super power” characteristic allows the player to choose their offensive power, “power source” generates a weapon to use, “movement modes” allows the player to choose if they want to fly or float into battle and other options are put into a “traits” group.

It's nice to see that the people at Sony Online Entertainment have also thought about those poor souls that don't have the time or the interest to fiddle with a lot of sliders in a character creation screen. Players can also choose to select one super hero from the vast DC Universe line up of heroes, like Superman, Batman, Green Lantern or any other, in order to be “inspired by” his powers and get right into the fight. ENDQUOTE

No they mean Dungeons and Dragons which was out some 30+ years before WoW. Just because WoW was your first run in with the high fantasy sword and sorcery genre doesnt mean it was the first. To paraphrase Kurt Cobain, its a fresh new thing in your eyes because your experiencing it personally for the first time. That doesnt mean WoW is first and it doesnt mean WoW is revolutionary because its not. It did nothing new in the way of the genre and I hope to God people one day wake up from this all. Half the time talking to WoW fanatics is like having a conversation about history with someone who has neve read a history book. Anything you can pitch me that WoW did I can rebuttal with a game that did it before them in some way.

 

Phasing (changing the world environment for players that finished major quest lines), dailies, heirloom armor/weapons (linked to your account to be shared by any toon you create and  changes stats depending on what level the character using it is), dual specs (switch on the fly from dps/tanking to healing, druids ftw!), inscription craft (specialize spells and abilities), Vendor mounts (repairs and stocking on the fly), Shared food (placed on the ground for all raid members to eat), Summoning gates (to summon raid members by any member once the gate is open).....I could list more?

 Actually UO did all of this before anyone (besides the daily questing.... who the hell needs quests?). They had player vendors, PLAYER HOUSING, Gate spell, create food spell, mounts, no need for dual speccing (that is a limitation of class games), inscription, cradting, etc...

As for DC Universe.... I am sick of the Superhero MMO's. Each and every has been worthless and will continue to be as long as they think the traditional MMORPG elements will work in them. Stance is a new idea, but I can see it as NEVER going to be balanced. This is fine i suppose as long as it is a PvE ONLY game.