Main reason 09 was a crap year is because allot of games that came out where crap, its as simple as that.

If these games where good very playable games it wouldnt be half as bad.

There hasn't been a great mmo since the launch of WoW. Just about everything has been either rushed with a ton of bugs or polished but the game design is bad. Oh and yeah, the subscription fee+microtransaction greediness is just plain awful. People always like to complain but yet they are the ones still paying that monthly fee and microtransaction models. if people really want to send a message then you stop playing mmos until developers start doing the right thing for players.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

 

---

Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).

 

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

---

Originally posted by Teala

 

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.

 

---

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.

 

 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

if you looked at his post history you would see he plays Eve. He also has a point, all you have to go off of is Bioware's singeplayer games to guess if the game is going to be good. And judging by the amount of bugs in Dragon age (and the lack of real content for a game in development for 5 years), it doesnt look good. Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

Well as long there are people willing to pay subscription and keep playing even when game gets item malls or whatever means of try getting your money its up to player to deside to keep playing this game or not.

There is still not a gun agains there head that force them to play such games and pay for subscription and item malls or pay for skill chance.

Im belong to those who refuse to play games with anyform or item shops or that can e give disadvantage to rest of players not willing to pay more then subscription.

If all mmo's in future be like this ill prolly wont play mmo's anymore or go for that other market witch is free play.

But i see a very dark future for gaming in general, and i mean they controll more and more how you should spent your money and how you should play there game with more and more limited freedom to choose what you want:(

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

---

Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
 

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

---

Originally posted by Teala
 
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
 

---

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
 
 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

---

 
if you looked at his post history you would see he plays Eve. He also has a point, all you have to go off of is Bioware's singeplayer games to guess if the game is going to be good. And judging by the amount of bugs in Dragon age (and the lack of real content for a game in development for 5 years), it doesnt look good. Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

I'm going to bullet point (well as much as forum formatting allows) this for you for ease of readability:

1) What does EVE Online have to do with...anything.

2) Dragon Age is no more or less buggy than your average PC game at launch. I suggest you uninstall Evony, you'll experience less bugs with all games that way. It may even fix your caps key so you can convert your is into Is.

3) In Bizzaro-land Dragon Age is a short game that can be beaten in 10 hours. In Reality-land it's an epic RPG that can span 60+ hours.

4) It's hilarious how you think its and it's are interchangeable.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

 

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

---

 

Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
 

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

---

 

Originally posted by Teala
 
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
 

 

---

 

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
 
 

 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

 

 

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

---

 
if you looked at his post history you would see he plays Eve. He also has a point, all you have to go off of is Bioware's singeplayer games to guess if the game is going to be good. And judging by the amount of bugs in Dragon age (and the lack of real content for a game in development for 5 years), it doesnt look good. Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

 

I'm going to bullet point (well as much as forum formatting allows) this for you for ease of readability:

1) What does EVE Online have to do with...anything.

2) Dragon Age is no more or less buggy than your average PC game at launch. I suggest you uninstall Evony, you'll experience less bugs with all games that way. It may even fix your caps key so you can convert your is into Is.

3) In Bizzaro-land Dragon Age is a short game that can be beaten in 10 hours. In Reality-land it's an epic RPG that can span 60+ hours.

4) It's hilarious how you think its and it's are interchangeable.

1) what does WoW have to do with anything? Or was it that just a flame? You know you can get banned for that.

2) true not all games are released bug free, but dragon age had a large amount of them that even bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended), and i'm pretty good about overlooking things.

3) I actually beat it in around 35 hours, and am on my second play through to see if i missed anything, and all i see are cheasy side quests with little substance. For a game thats been in development for 5, yes f-i-v-e years, i expect more out of the game. Especially more then one little market district with a few other buildings in the largest city in Ferelden.

4) lol cant think of anything better to insult me with then my spelling? I think i'll just leave out as many apostraphes as i can and spelling errors if it makes you feel any smarter then me.

Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

---

 
Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
 
 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

---

 
Originally posted by Teala
 
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
 
 

---

 
 
Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
 
 
 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
 
 

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

---

 
if you looked at his post history you would see he plays Eve. He also has a point, all you have to go off of is Bioware's singeplayer games to guess if the game is going to be good. And judging by the amount of bugs in Dragon age (and the lack of real content for a game in development for 5 years), it doesnt look good. Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

 
I'm going to bullet point (well as much as forum formatting allows) this for you for ease of readability:
1) What does EVE Online have to do with...anything.
2) Dragon Age is no more or less buggy than your average PC game at launch. I suggest you uninstall Evony, you'll experience less bugs with all games that way. It may even fix your caps key so you can convert your is into Is.
3) In Bizzaro-land Dragon Age is a short game that can be beaten in 10 hours. In Reality-land it's an epic RPG that can span 60+ hours.
4) It's hilarious how you think its and it's are interchangeable.

---

1) what does WoW have to do with anything? Or was it that just a flame? You know you can get banned for that.
2) true not all games are released bug free, but dragon age had a large amount of them that even bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended), and i'm pretty good about overlooking things.
3) I actually beat it in around 35 hours, and am on my second play through to see if i missed anything, and all i see are cheasy side quests with little substance. For a game thats been in development for 5, yes f-i-v-e years, i expect more out of the game. Especially more then one little market district with a few other buildings in the largest city in Ferelden.
4) lol cant think of anything better to insult me with then my spelling? I think i'll just leave out as many apostraphes as i can and spelling errors if it makes you feel any smarter then me.

Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

1) I already spent an entire post in this thread relating the relevancy WoW has to TOR. I'm not going through it again here. L2Read.

2) Ah, so because you personally ran into a few bugs the game is unplayable?. Yet by your own admission none of those bugs were gamebreaking, or annoying enough, to keep you from playing since you said you've already beaten DAO. So really then...they weren't that bad were they? Hyperbole much?

3) You didn't "beat" Dragon Age. You blew through the main quest line, probably ignored the majority of dialogue options, skipped the majority of content, then ran online to complain about the game's length? Really? And news flash buddy, 5 years in development isn't all that uncommon for most games. Then again, you seem like you subscribe to the Madden mentality, push 'em out once a year.

4) Take comfort in the history of your life; that even though you sped through it, ignoring the majority of the world's content and dozing through it's many dialogue options all in favor of playing a glorified screensaver, nothing you do will be as bad as what you just did to the English language. It's alright, you're going to beat the real world around the 35 mark anyways.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

 

---

Originally posted by tvalentine

---

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

 

 

---

 

Originally posted by Kyleran

---

 

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 

---

 
Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
 
 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

 

 

---

 
Originally posted by Teala
 
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
 
 

 

 

---

 
 
Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
 
 
 

 

 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
 
 

 

 

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

 

 

---

 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

 

 

---

 
if you looked at his post history you would see he plays Eve. He also has a point, all you have to go off of is Bioware's singeplayer games to guess if the game is going to be good. And judging by the amount of bugs in Dragon age (and the lack of real content for a game in development for 5 years), it doesnt look good. Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

 
I'm going to bullet point (well as much as forum formatting allows) this for you for ease of readability:
1) What does EVE Online have to do with...anything.
2) Dragon Age is no more or less buggy than your average PC game at launch. I suggest you uninstall Evony, you'll experience less bugs with all games that way. It may even fix your caps key so you can convert your is into Is.
3) In Bizzaro-land Dragon Age is a short game that can be beaten in 10 hours. In Reality-land it's an epic RPG that can span 60+ hours.
4) It's hilarious how you think its and it's are interchangeable.

---

1) what does WoW have to do with anything? Or was it that just a flame? You know you can get banned for that.
2) true not all games are released bug free, but dragon age had a large amount of them that even bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended), and i'm pretty good about overlooking things.
3) I actually beat it in around 35 hours, and am on my second play through to see if i missed anything, and all i see are cheasy side quests with little substance. For a game thats been in development for 5, yes f-i-v-e years, i expect more out of the game. Especially more then one little market district with a few other buildings in the largest city in Ferelden.
4) lol cant think of anything better to insult me with then my spelling? I think i'll just leave out as many apostraphes as i can and spelling errors if it makes you feel any smarter then me.

 

Its hilarious how touchy these fanboi's are getting, just mention a game next to others not released and they get upset.

---

 

1) I already spent an entire post in this thread relating the relevancy WoW has to TOR. I'm not going through it again here. L2Read.

2) Ah, so because you personally ran into a few bugs the game is unplayable?. Yet by your own admission none of those bugs were gamebreaking, or annoying enough, to keep you from playing since you said you've already beaten DAO. So really then...they weren't that bad were they? Hyperbole much?

3) You didn't "beat" Dragon Age. You blew through the main quest line, probably ignored the majority of dialogue options, skipped the majority of content, then ran online to complain about the game's length? Really? And news flash buddy, 5 years in development isn't all that uncommon for most games. Then again, you seem like you subscribe to the Madden mentality, push 'em out once a year.

4) Take comfort in the history of your life; that even though you sped through it, ignoring the majority of the world's content and dozing through it's many dialogue options all in favor of running your mouth off online, nothing you do will be as bad as what you just did to the English language. It's alright, you're going to beat the real world around the 35 mark anyways.

so many bad assumptions ..... so many wrong assumptions.... This discussion is off topic and talking to fanbois who refuse to read and make blind assumptions leads nowhere. Honestly if you have no idea about the bugs, you should look at the main DA:O forums, the PC tech support forum has more threads in it then the main campaign forum. I guess ignorance is bliss.

I've been a Blizzard subscriber since the WCII era. I've followed the launches of all products since. WoW's production became the company's coup de grace in the gaming world... and then we saw the company go from caring about games and its fans and worry about subscribers and shareholdings (indisputable timing of product releases since WoW 1.0).

I quit WoW, but figured it was just that the beast got out of control for Blizzard to keep a handle on, but that the other IPs would remain controlled. But this whole CEO (the guy at the top, of *all* people) coming out and stating he's happy that he's able to keep 'folks focused on the depression'. Holy sharkbites batman. Where there was smoke, obviously there was fire.

Guess Blizzard just lost a fan.. guess they're just another industry titan now. Here's to hoping someone comes out with something big to bring gaming back to gamers.

Originally posted by tvalentine

2) true not all games are released bug free, but dragon age had a large amount of them that even bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended), and i'm pretty good about overlooking things.

3) I actually beat it in around 35 hours, and am on my second play through to see if i missed anything, and all i see are cheasy side quests with little substance. For a game thats been in development for 5, yes f-i-v-e years, i expect more out of the game. Especially more then one little market district with a few other buildings in the largest city in Ferelden.

I haven't come across any bugs in DA. It took me over 100 hours (110) for my first run through, but then I actually read all of the quests and book entries. I think you played it like an mmo and not an rpg.

---

Originally posted by pojung
But this whole CEO (the guy at the top, of *all* people) coming out and stating he's happy that he's able to keep 'folks focused on the depression'. Holy sharkbites batman.

---

Bobby Kotick. If we were to smash his body into a fine powder we could distill pure evil from it.

Ever since I read his "article" on terrifying his employees into submission I made it a personal life-goal to outlive this germ. I plan to go riverdancig on his grave. I've got the shoes and everything.

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Originally posted by arenasb

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Originally posted by tvalentine

2) true not all games are released bug free, but dragon age had a large amount of them that even bugged the hell out of me (no pun intended), and i'm pretty good about overlooking things.
3) I actually beat it in around 35 hours, and am on my second play through to see if i missed anything, and all i see are cheasy side quests with little substance. For a game thats been in development for 5, yes f-i-v-e years, i expect more out of the game. Especially more then one little market district with a few other buildings in the largest city in Ferelden.

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I haven't come across any bugs in DA. It took me over 100 hours (110) for my first run through, but then I actually read all of the quests and book entries. I think you played it like an mmo and not an rpg.

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Indeed. Of the couple of million people currently playing Dragon Age a few 100 are having issues with it and that all of a sudden means it's a bug infested game? Please.

Honestly I just think he's lying through his teeth to try and make a point. 35 hours? Was he playing the game by rolling his face on the keyboard? It sure would explain a few things...

Originally posted by GameRev

Great, 2009 was a great year for PC gaming enthusiasts.. the general population now understands what gamers of the PC have been feeling for the past several years.. I great year not horrible, thousands of underqualified morons losing jobs they didnt deserve nor worked hard to keep.

With PC gaming at an all time low, i hope 2010 brings all the publishers to their knees, hopefully we can forever say goodbye to the root cause of the problem corrupt publishers, with any luck, Atari, Capcom, EA, Eidos, Strategy First, etc etc will all be wiped off the planet

I give a toast.. attention pc gamers opressed across the lands, it wont be long now.. just a few years away from the awakening and the changing of the guard....  Rest now brothers, for soon you will have a fight worth living for and worth dieing for

 

 

Sadly, it doesn't work like this. There's no innovation in MMOs because there's too much money at stake, failure rates are astronomical, and profit margins with the exception of a couple of games are quite thin. And, of course, MMOs are software and production cycles for MMOs are suspiciously similar to production cycles for business applications. There's no check box for fun.

I think the worsed that happened in 2009 is that... well actually  it ain't a simple thing. But the feeling I got most of all was that no lessons have been learned.

We get the same old korean grind games like Aion with barely any story or quests between the endless grinds. We get bad launch after bad launch. We got promising games like that Fallout wannabe ignoring the world as a market (There are COUNTLESS payment providers in the world who have made it their job to support every way to transfer money for a tiny fee, USE THEM)

We have seen companies try to squeeze the customer, we seen bad decisions.

The MMORPG market is potentially a huge one, as soon as game makers are ready to accept TWO important lessons.

To make sure everybody understands them I will translate them to FPS terms.

Rule 1: Learn from others, EVERY FPS should have a quick save a quick load button. F5 and F9 are perfectly fine, it works, has been proven to work, learn from those who came before.

Rule 2: Not EVERY game has to be the same, Valve changed Quake and now they are bigger then the company whose engine they licensed. Not every MMORPG has to have P2P or a gear grind. And introducing it, won't make your game suddenly appeal to another audience. If MMO developers had made Half-Life they would have ripped out the set pieces to appeal to the Quake players.

In 2010 we will have some potentially intresting games coming out. Star Trek Online, a very serious piece of content produced by a company known for its simplistic MMO's. Star Trek Nerds vs Console wannabe gaming company. It remains to be seen wether the game appeals to anyone? To nerdy for the Champions Online fans and to casual for the Star Trek fans? 

SWTOR will be the second attempt to make a Star Wars MMO. Yet with the first failing because it wasn't WoW (according to Lucasarts, not the fans) and then failing even more when they attempted to change it into WoW, the Bioware devs as far as I read them seem to be aiming the first part of the game at those who love lots and lots of story (not the WoW crowd) and the end at raiding (WoW crowd) so... who will actually play both parts of the game?

The Secret World... well... the only thing we know about it is that Ragnar is producing it, who made the Longest World and so it must be good... except he also made Dreamfall which wasn't as good and seems determined to force his fans who like very slow adventures to PvP. 

And that is perhaps I think the ultimate problem with MMO's at the moment. A lack of focus on a specific audience. Final Fantasy 13 is currently selling like hotcakes in Japan and it does so because it has a clear audience who know what to expect.

But what audience does SWTOR have? For that matter, what audience does Dragon Age have? Its trailers have some kind of metal music attached to it, while the entire game has classical music as a score. You don't have that in FF. It is clear who it is for, and if you don't like it, then though. You are not their intended buyer.

It is time for MMORPG developers to focus. And not just on WoW's subscription numbers. Those are a fluke. WoW when it came out had made some clear choices. It didn't appeal and still doesn't, to the graphics junkies. It said "fuck you" to anyone who craved realtime combat. Skill based fighting? Go somewhere else. And this attitude got them 10+ million subscribers.

Pick your audience and stick with it, it works. Try to appeal to everyone and you endup being liked by nobody.

Ask any failed MMORPG, most of the ones that launched in 2009 are among them. 

It is a bad year for MMORPG's and I feel sorry for those laid off.  As I look over the past two years production companies are not producing quality products.  They all want Blizzard's subscriber numbers and that is currently not going to happen.  EVE is successful because they have a vision and foundation and have stuck to their model since the start of the game.  They do not need the Blizzard's numbers to turn a profit and listen to their playerbase. They are turning a profit! The bigger studios need to pay attention to this success.

WOW does this well too and have stuck to thier business model.  Honestly graphics do not make a game and some will argue that point.  I state this as AOC and Aion are beautiful MMORPGs and yet they have or are losing players. Warhammer was mismanaged and over hyped by almost all of the internet and mangazine writers and is in bad shape.

Instead of Mythic listening to its playerbase and fixing the glaring problems they released 4 new classes, now compunding problems.  Players got fed up and left..  

I am leary of MMORPG's that are trying to be WOW killers and I do not even play WOW. So many publishers have promised the moon and delivered crap these past couple of years.

I think a dev needs to have vision of what the game is going to be and publish a game that is entertaining.

Let's take Aion for an example.  As most of youy know you could participate in the pay for a beta event.  They showed us level 1-30 and no more and for the most part the game was indeed all they stated it was.  Once live after level 35 the game became what alot of people here stated a darn grind and it requires a person to basically be grouped after level 38 until level 50 unless you want to grind the same mob that gives you maximum xp until you level and rinse repeat.  PVP is a joke as the Abyss is full of level 50 players ganking lower level players.

AOC was the same way.

Publisher's and game reviewer's need to be honest with players interested in the game and be up front with them.  (LOL I do not think this will ever happen) A MMORPG is a long term investment and investor's are thinking shot term and until they realize making money in the long term is the way to go, we will be getting crap for a while.

Economically a MMORPG is cheap entertainment and can thrive during an economic downturn if it is fun.  

I am currently subscribed to 0 MMO's not do to the recession but because for me they are at the core the same thing.  Whether it be EQ, EQ2, WoW, WAR, AoC, DaoC, Lineage 2, Final Fantasy,  LotR, ect  they are all basically SAME game I have been playing for years simply with different graphics and some tweaks.   I liked all of those games, but I have played that style of game to the point I have 0 interest in ever playing it again.   I have the money to spend but not on the same product I have been playing for more than a decade.

 I think the video game industry has been very recession proof this year.  Those companies failed in their profit reports because they failed to deliver games people wanted to play.  The economy might have affected it but the recession can't be given all the credit for this, i mean there were games that broke sales records this year...

Originally posted by Soultice
...

Let's take Aion for an example.  As most of youy know you could participate in the pay for a beta event.  They showed us level 1-30 and no more and for the most part the game was indeed all they stated it was.  Once live after level 35 the game became what alot of people here stated a darn grind and it requires a person to basically be grouped after level 38 until level 50 unless you want to grind the same mob that gives you maximum xp until you level and rinse repeat.  PVP is a joke as the Abyss is full of level 50 players ganking lower level players.

AOC was the same way.

Publisher's and game reviewer's need to be honest with players interested in the game and be up front with them.  (LOL I do not think this will ever happen) A MMORPG is a long term investment and investor's are thinking shot term and until they realize making money in the long term is the way to go, we will be getting crap for a while.

Economically a MMORPG is cheap entertainment and can thrive during an economic downturn if it is fun.  

And anyone watching STO should re-read this and think about it.

STO may be a great game - we really don't know.  But there are a lot of restrictions on the Beta which should be a big concern to anyone who has followed any MMO releases in the past two years.

 Great article.

I've been out of the MMO picture and last games I played a lot were WoW and EvE. Played a lot more in-between and yeah, everything was the same with a different setting.

Maybe everything has been done? Lol, I don't know, but console games can still kick ass sometimes and innovate. Seems like for an MMO do that is too hard.

Let's see what will happen, but I predict more shitstorms.

Good article.

I guess I understand the recession thing, but like with so many gamers outside the industry, it's not really what rides me.

It's the MMO design "strategies", the failed big titles, the f2p models and the asian business influences, the wow induced greed and all the inept "playas" in it's wake, Zynga and the games that aren't really games apps, the piss poor player "communities" and the list probably goes on.

There are points of light too, but meh,. my overall impression: bad year.

Those who think the worst is over with the economy, better buckel up. Its gonna be a bumpy ride.

The media like to boast that the economy is improving with unemployment at 10%. That number are only those receiving benifits. The real numbers in parts of the country are horrible with 80% unemployment in Mendota California or 50% in Detroit Mich.

this all effects not just gamming, but ALL of us.

This atricle can explain it better.

Link:  http://www.dollarish.com/718262472/whats-the-actual-unemployment-rate/

What's The Actual Unemployment Rate?

Of late, the media has been abuzz with cheerful-ish news—the country's unemployment rate is down from 10.2% to 10% as of November. But some experts are questioning the validity of both this percentage and the alleged decrease, according to DailyFinance.

The unemployment rate we see in newspapers and the like is calculated by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which interviews state unemployment offices for its numbers. The thing is, these offices can only report numbers on laid-off employees collecting unemployment benefits; thus, if you're in the BLS's 10%, you are:

?Recently laid-off. Eventually you will stop qualifying for unemployment.

?Someone who was fired after 14 or more weeks of employment. Any less and you can't get any benefits.
?Probably not self-employed. Only self-employed workers with unemployment insurance are eligible for help from state offices.

?Still a member of the workforce. If you become "discouraged" and stop looking for a job, or take yourself out of the workforce for any other reason, you are no longer counted as unemployed but rather "marginally attached." There are an estimated 2.3 million "marginally attached" workers in the country.

But before we start hating on the BLS, DailyFinance reports that the agency does actually calculate a more comprehensive rate of unemployment, we just don't know about it. For example, BLS researchers use household surveys to figure out more gray-area data, like the 9.3 million part-time workers who can't find full-time work.

When you add up these unhappy part-timers, the "marginally attached," and the laid-off workers collecting benefits, the unemployment rate is 17.2%—a lot higher than 10%.