Originally posted by Nizur

 

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Originally posted by ChinaCat

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Originally posted by Nizur

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Originally posted by LogothX
casual play I have over 50 Lesser Magic, trained Greater Magic, have my Melee weapon skill up to 36 and archery at over 50. This in three days time.
 
"Casual play". I find it hilarious how variable everyone's definition of "casual" is.

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LogothX, it's hard to tell who you're quoting.
And that is definitely not casual play. I play casually, maybe a few hours a night, if that. In 1 month my lesser magic is at 47, melee weapon is around 40 and archery is around 40. I'm not trying hard to level anything. Just playing the game. Farming, exploring, crafting and so on.
If you focus on a particular skill though, you could quickly level it up.

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You can get 50 lesser magic in 5-6 hours of doing nothing but shooting mana missles and healing yourself on newbie mobs (goblins).     Trick is to always have food.   If you mix in using a bow when your mana is depleted by your stamina is not, you can raise Archery to about the same level in the same time frame if you have the arrows, then just sit and rest to get it all back to full.    I confess it taking a fair amount of time to harvest materials, craft them, and such; but what you have accomplished in one month, could easily be done in a week playing a few hours a night.    Certainly if you are lucky enough to have a second computer, or can just farm while doing other things but not really playing the game; just attended macroing harvesting and crafting, it will make things much easier for sure.

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I can't heal myself fast enough around goblins. The cooldown on heal self is mega slow. They'd get at least 5-6 hits in before I could cast it again.

And I know I could skill any one thing up if I actually focused on it. The deal is I'm not focused on any one thing. I'm the kind of player that will heal myself IF I remember to. I'm so close to 50 lesser magic that I might as well just spam mana missile at some deer or bombardiers. Does that level magic too? I don't see why not.

You want to buy the lesser magic skills "Mana to Stamina" and "Mana to Health".   This will give you another heal in addition to the starter one, and a way to replenish stamina.    The resin to use Mana to Stamina can easily be obtained by chopping wood and the Sulfur required for Mana to Health from mining.    Combine those with eating food you cook from fishing, and you will find your down time reduced a lot.

ps - Regular goblins, not shamans, are extremely vulnerable to mana missile.

Cheers -CC

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Originally posted by ChinaCat
You want to buy the lesser magic skills "Mana to Stamina" and "Mana to Health".   This will give you another heal in addition to the starter one, and a way to replenish stamina.    The resin to use Mana to Stamina can easily be obtained by chopping wood and the Sulfur required for Mana to Health from mining.    Combine those with eating food you cook from fishing, and you will find your down time reduced a lot.
ps - Regular goblins, not shamans, are extremely vulnerable to mana missile.
Cheers -CC

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Thanks! I'll give this a try tonight.

 I'm not sure why the OP feels the need to issue a 'warning' to people because Darkfall is level based.  Of course there's skill levels and those with higher skills and better gear for that matter will exert more strength overall.  The only truly 'level-free' type game would be FPS's like Team Fortress 2.  Darkfall was never marketed as a level-free game so again why the warning.

Darkfall was marketed as a 'class-free' game which indeed it is despite whatever your feelings may be on the endgame specializations offered.  Players can wield a bow, switch to a wand to heal themselves and break out a sword, all in the same fight.  That's one of Darkfall's main attractions to it's player base.  

Are higher skilled-leveled players going to beat the n00bs one on one?  Of course they are unless the higher skill-leveled player is a complete idiot.  The great thing is that three newer players can gang up on on higher skill-leveled player and have a chance. The opposite is that the one player can have a shot at beating the other three.  There's a sweet spot there somewhere and it's determined by skill, not a RNG.  This type of setup could never happen in just about every other MMO where there are actual overall numerical levels for the characters.  (Don't let this stop you video makers from FRAPSing five or so level 1 characters getting pounded on by a level 80 in the WOW battlegrounds though.  I would lol for at least ten seconds.) 

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Wrong. DF is a skill base game. Not a lvl base game. Yeah, gaining skills can take the same speed as maxing lvl in wow, but lvl are not skills.

If you are a newb in wow, you cant equip the highest pvp gear or the highest pve gear. Some items, you need like lvl 80 to equip it. If you are lvl 1, you cant. Ummm... if you are lvl 1, you cant enter a dungeon that require you to be lvl 50 for example. There are some instance you cant enter. Yeah, there is a range lvl for pvp like if you are lvl 20, only lvl 20 to 30 can kill you, a proof to define wow as a lvl base game. And the worst part, you need to be lvl 40 to ride a mount.

Darkfall. in your 1st day, when you didnt learn any skill, if you are in a powerful clan, they can give you the best items in the game. You can equip them without any problem and use them. There is no instance so you can go anywhere you want. You can use any item in the game, you can get kill by anyone or get killed by anyone. Darkfall dont share any common stuff as a lvl base game. You can also ride any mount including the battle horn.

the only stuff that DF have in common with lvl base mmorpg is on the part of learning skills from npc's. Like you mentioned, you need 25 sword skill for example to buy sword mastery so you can strike harder. Nothing else describe DF as a lvl base game.

lvl and skills are the same thing , just a different wrapper. progression increaes both and both add to a charachter .... It's the same thing if you can't see it you are blind.

Originally posted by Isane

 

lvl and skills are the same thing , just a different wrapper. progression increaes both and both add to a charachter .... It's the same thing if you can't see it you are blind.

Not quite so cut and dry as you make it.  Levels typically automatically assign stat points for you (not all) but with skills they improve as you use them.

So one is leveling up based on how you play while the other one levels up the same for everybody regardless of what you do.  What is the better rpg option?

All games on the market, with the exception for any skill based (like UO), are more level-based than DF.  A level 20 in AIon can be one shotted by a level 40.  Takes about a month or less to hit level 40 in Aion.  Nothing like that can happen in DF unless you have no armor and have less than half health.

The topic of this thread is a lie, period.

Originally posted by unclemo

 I'm not sure why the OP feels the need to issue a 'warning' to people because Darkfall is level based.  Of course there's skill levels and those with higher skills and better gear for that matter will exert more strength overall.  The only truly 'level-free' type game would be FPS's like Team Fortress 2.  Darkfall was never marketed as a level-free game so again why the warning.

Darkfall was marketed as a 'class-free' game which indeed it is despite whatever your feelings may be on the endgame specializations offered.  Players can wield a bow, switch to a wand to heal themselves and break out a sword, all in the same fight.  That's one of Darkfall's main attractions to it's player base.  

Are higher skilled-leveled players going to beat the n00bs one on one?  Of course they are unless the higher skill-leveled player is a complete idiot.  The great thing is that three newer players can gang up on on higher skill-leveled player and have a chance. The opposite is that the one player can have a shot at beating the other three.  There's a sweet spot there somewhere and it's determined by skill, not a RNG.  This type of setup could never happen in just about every other MMO where there are actual overall numerical levels for the characters.  (Don't let this stop you video makers from FRAPSing five or so level 1 characters getting pounded on by a level 80 in the WOW battlegrounds though.  I would lol for at least ten seconds.) 

He's warning people because half of the fanboy population on here (and on the official and other sites) are trying to pimp out the game as a game where only real player skill (person behind the keyboard) matters. Where a noob can come in and kill a vet. Which is simply not true unless that said person is AFK or has recently been paralyzed from the waist up since logging into his character - but he could probably still kill the noob using his feet since he only needs 3 hits for the new players 40ish. No one expects it to be TF in a medieval setting - but a lot of the fan base is pimping it as one, that's what this thread was originally about.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

All games on the market, with the exception for any skill based (like UO), are more level-based than DF.  A level 20 in AIon can be one shotted by a level 40.  Takes about a month or less to hit level 40 in Aion.  Nothing like that can happen in DF unless you have no armor and have less than half health.

The topic of this thread is a lie, period.

I was outside new flayed elf trying to cover a guy fleeing for his life when a giant poorly animated ball of...something smashed into me and nearly killed me in one hit. I had armor on. If I didnt get behind a pillar to heal (a meager amount of health mind you) I would have been killed outright.

Originally posted by LogothX

Originally posted by -Zeno-

All games on the market, with the exception for any skill based (like UO), are more level-based than DF.  A level 20 in AIon can be one shotted by a level 40.  Takes about a month or less to hit level 40 in Aion.  Nothing like that can happen in DF unless you have no armor and have less than half health.

The topic of this thread is a lie, period.

 

I was outside new flayed elf trying to cover a guy fleeing for his life when a giant poorly animated ball of...something smashed into me and nearly killed me in one hit. I had armor on. If I didnt get behind a pillar to heal (a meager amount of health mind you) I would have been killed outright.

Heh, screenshot or it didn't happen. There is no spell in the game which can make approx 200 damage. If anything rather 60.

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Originally posted by Realbigdeal

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Originally posted by Fariic

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Originally posted by Blindchance

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Originally posted by Angelof2070

It sucks to buy a game solely just to PvP, and find out you have to work for a month before you can even play the game.

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I understand from where you are coming, but show me a MMORPG where you don't need to swallow that awful pill of daily grind.
Skill progression is much faster now, however from my personal point of view ( a person who have hardly any time to play ) it still is slow.
 
What can I advice you:
1. Take some available quests: darkfallinfo.wetpaint.com/page/Darkfall+Quests. Some of them have nice rewards.
2. Try to focus a bit on skills: go and kill goblins / kobolds / trolls / orcs / akathars / centuars etc whatever you can handle. Use bow and melee weapon or with spells and melee or whatever combination you want to level up. You will notice faster progression.
 
From what I have heard yesterday from a fellow clan member you need around 24 hours of strict melee fighting to reach the max level in it. Some people see it as acceptable, I don't, especially in a game where pvp have such a huge influence on all other content.
The grind is one of the main reasons why I may swap to Mortal Online if it will deliver, right now that game is much bigger mess then DF was in early beta. However if you have access to MO beta you can definitely appreciate much faster progression, meaningful stats ( STR, AGI, INT etc ) and faster resources gathering, the game design direction. What I can't stand is place holder pve ( I doubt they will ever make it as good as Darkfall's ), placeholders, placeholders...in general the early stage of development.
 

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I resubbed DF about 3 weeks ago. 
I have to agree with you and the OP, 100%
The grind and levels is killing me.
I wanted to make staves.  In order to make then I need alchemy.
In order to get alchemy I need 25 wisdom.  I only had 22.
Harvesting and crafting increase Wis.  I fished, herbed, logged, mined for a couple hours every night for the past 4 days to get my wisdom up.  In between I would fight some goblins to get the money I needed to buy the tools and skills so that I could eventually make staves.
My wisdom is now 25.something.
My lesser magic is now 66.+.  I want to do mostly magic. 
My harvesting skills are in the 40's. Low.
Alchemy is only like 14.
I can make a Rank 0 staff.  It's not any better then what the goblins drop.
I have to use 2 sulfar to make one staff.  No one wants to buy these staves, they're vendor trash.  The NPC sells sulfar for 4g, that's expensive, don't buy from him.  Players sell it much cheaper, I have to kill goblins a lot to get a healthy suply of gold for sulfar. 
I mine for my sulfar. 
In about an hour of mining I can get 12+ sulfar.  I use 2 to make a staff.
I've made almost 30 staves.  I have only 14 alchemy.  I need 2 sulfar to make one staff.  I have to mine for about an hour to get 12 more.
Lineage 2 was NEVER this tedious.
 

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I hate grinding, op you right QQ. Man, if you hate grinding, get in a clan and stop working on crafting. work on your pvp skill and you will be done with it faster. Let your clanmates help you get full ekwip and in return, promess them that you will serve them as a pker or a pver.  God damn. You hate to grind but you still work on the part to grind when you dont even need to do this.

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LoL - one of the best way to raise your stats in DF is in fact by crafting and harvesting. I'd go far as to recommenced every new player should focus on that part of the game first prior to pvp'ing/pve'ing. Reason being is that the activity is relatively safe, wields more gold per hour then farming mobs, and of course has the added benefit of stat increases which will help you out later on in the game in terms of less grinding.

As it stands:

Mining/Wood cutting = increases in strength and vitality stats

Herb gathering/fishing = increases in Intelligence and wisdom stats

Casting spells = Intelligence increase <== People marco lesser magic leveling by shooting 3 mana missiles point blank at themselves and then healing using lesser heal.

Arrow making = Shooting arrows <==== Probably the hardest stat to raise I think. I believe also might increase dexterity but I am not sure on this one.

Quickness = Sprinting/Riding/Swimming <=== Lots of people afk swim since you do not drown if you run out of stamina.

Hence you see a ton load of people macro'ing skills in this fashion along with the afk shooting and then healing of alts or other player characters who are afk. This not even covering the amount of people hacking in this game. Nothing sucks worse then to going after a red and then seeing him go poof/vanish during the chase as you move in for the kill. Now I am pretty sure some of the fanboies will come on here and scream that there are no hacks or that the old hacks have been patched out but this is a false. I've talk to people in game and in my clan alliance who have and still continue to macro and a few who use radar hacks/teleport hacks to move about the world to make gold and pvp.

Sorry for you to hear this, but hitting endgame in 3 months ISN'T level-based.

Originally posted by stux

I think you have a valid point but aren't expressing it correctly.

 

You should say there the game is XP based and the player that has more XP into a combat will win over the player that has gained less and XP but may have more skills.

 

I do have a question for you though:

 

Can 10 level 20 players bring down 1-2 level level 70ish player?

 

My biggest problem with pvp in MMO's in general is that XP = god mode over newer players.  I feel that a much larger group of newer players should win over a lot smaller group of players that have a lot more XP (providing skill at playing the game is some what equal).  But I haven't seen a game that works in a way that allows lower level players to even scratch higher level players.

Well it's nice in Darkfall because last night we had about 5 higher level characters harass our clan city and we mobilized and eventually overwhelmed and killed 2-3 of them.  We looted their still warm bodies and spit on their carcasses.

Originally posted by McAvoy

All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.

Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

Ahahahahh read Sun Tzu's Art Of War and apply it in a video game. Some people have detached all links with reality.

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Originally posted by Getalife

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Originally posted by McAvoy

All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.
Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

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Ahahahahh read Sun Tzu's Art Of War and apply it in a video game. Some people have detached all links with reality.

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I've read Sun Tzu's Art of War and nowhere does it cover macro'ing players or teleporting d-bags in a MMO.

Good post and very valid points.

This game is as level based as any MMO I have ever player; it just has its grinding packaged a little different. I'm glad I played DF because it has made me appreciate the fact that although I like PvP, I like the old DAOC pvp setup far more, i.e. BGs on the way up to gain XP and have fun and then a chaotic and fairly FFA PvP environment for max lvl characters.

My thoughts don't mean DF is a bad game, but it does has levels based attributes that are > than "player skill" unless you take two very close end game characters.

Oh ya, and for anyone that is thinking of trying the game...you will grind to "level" up stats, just like other mmos have you "level" up to gain abilities and automatic stats increases. 

Originally posted by M1sf1t

 

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Originally posted by Getalife

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Originally posted by McAvoy

 

All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.
Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

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Ahahahahh read Sun Tzu's Art Of War and apply it in a video game. Some people have detached all links with reality.

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I've read Sun Tzu's Art of War and nowhere does it cover macro'ing players or teleporting d-bags in a MMO.

If you macro still in Darkfall you are doing it wrong.  Much quicker to level off of mobs.  No-one teleports.  If they do they are banned.  Sun Tzu is awesome.  Next.

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Originally posted by Ruyn

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Originally posted by M1sf1t

 

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Originally posted by Getalife

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Originally posted by McAvoy
 
All i have to say is if you are smart you can kill anyone in Darkfall.
Go read Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

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Ahahahahh read Sun Tzu's Art Of War and apply it in a video game. Some people have detached all links with reality.

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I've read Sun Tzu's Art of War and nowhere does it cover macro'ing players or teleporting d-bags in a MMO.

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If you macro still in Darkfall you are doing it wrong.  Much quicker to level off of mobs.  No-one teleports.  If they do they are banned.  Sun Tzu is awesome.  Next.

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This is just flat out wrong. Sorry but plenty of people macro in game and yes people still do teleport around in game. While weapon skill gains can be gained faster off mobs you can still gain spell skills (using a afk alt) and stat points via macroing. Also people still do teleport around in DF.

Sure they do not teleport around as blatantly as they did in the past since AV has taken a more aggressive stance on blatant hackers but it is very much possible to be able to do in game. In fact happens more often then you think. Along with the radar hack and a few others which I've seen first hand when someone demonstrated it to me just recently. AV has not fixed the loop holes in the game engine which allows for such hacks to occur in game.

All they've done is just go after the people to stupid to conceal their use of such hacks via actually responding to reports and making gm's invisible in game. Of course people who are cautious and use these hacks in moderation are still around and thriving some of whom are part of the big power blocks in game who hold territory and others just minor d-bag pk'ers looking to gank n00bs because they can't face any other person who might actually WTFPWN them.

Originally posted by Ruyn

 

If you macro still in Darkfall you are doing it wrong.  Much quicker to level off of mobs.

Haha we level on mobs, and macro when you sleep. Come on we know Darkfall is the biggest grind in the history of mmo's, no need to hide that fakt. I have played for 8 months, and still all I've done the last two days in DF is hitting a semibugged mob. It sucks, the grind in Darkfall sucks like an old mans swetty balls.

I have nerdraged several time these eight month over the stupidity from AV. Every new patch I get this small hope they will fix the grind, but they don't. I want pvp, battles, ships and fun, but what I get is spamming the same stupid spell at a bugged npc for hours. And all in my clan does it, and so does every other clan I know about. We used to pvp over the best spot for bugged mobs just to macro. Imagine that, we fight over bugged mobs to lessen the HUGE grind.

I have spent countless hours swimming at a wall, so my avatars head must be flat and have gills. It's so stupid I'm still shaking my head in disbelive. You grind up one magic branch (and that takes time), then you have to grind up the fucking spells in that branch if you want tham to work properly. But hey, in AV's divine wisdom you are still not done. You need to grind up your stats to open for more grind. Archmage and intensifier....fuck I'm so sick right now. Something is wrong in the world of Agon, let me repeat that

SOMETHING IS FUCKING WRONG WITH THE GRIND IN DARKFALL.

I'm a competitive pvp player, and all you "just play the game normal for 3 years" don't mean shit to me. I want my stats/skills to be like the other competitive pvpers in Darkfall. And don't even try to give me this "mmorpg is all about level" and "All will quit if they can't level anymore" You are wrong. In your shallow PVE wow clones level is all you got, but I've played  pvp mmo's before those games hit the marked. I know full loot mmo's is best when your char is done.

Still, Darkfall is the best mmo out there at the moment, and I pay for three accounts.

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by Ruyn

 

If you macro still in Darkfall you are doing it wrong.  Much quicker to level off of mobs.

 

Haha we level on mobs, and macro when you sleep. Come on we know Darkfall is the biggest grind in the history of mmo's, no need to hide that fakt. I have played for 8 months, and still all I've done the last two days in DF is hitting a semibugged mob. It sucks, the grind in Darkfall sucks like an old mans swetty balls.

 

I have nerdraged several time these eight month over the stupidity from AV. Every new patch I get this small hope they will fix the grind, but they don't. I want pvp, battles, ships and fun, but what I get is spamming the same stupid spell at a bugged npc for hours. And all in my clan does it, and so does every other clan I know about. We used to pvp over the best spot for bugged mobs just to macro. Imagine that, we fight over bugged mobs to lessen the HUGE grind.

 

I have spent countless hours swimming at a wall, so my avatars head must be flat and have gills. It's so stupid I'm still shaking my head in disbelive. You grind up one magic branch (and that takes time), then you have to grind up the fucking spells in that branch if you want tham to work properly. But hey, in AV's divine wisdom you are still not done. You need to grind up your stats to open for more grind. Archmage and intensifier....fuck I'm so sick right now. Something is wrong in the world of Agon, let me repeat that

 

SOMETHING IS FUCKING WRONG WITH THE GRIND IN DARKFALL.

 

I'm a competitive pvp player, and all you "just play the game normal for 3 years" don't mean shit to me. I want my stats/skills to be like the other competitive pvpers in Darkfall. And don't even try to give me this "mmorpg is all about level" and "All will quit if they can't level anymore" You are wrong. In your shallow PVE wow clones level is all you got, but I've played  pvp mmo's before those games hit the marked. I know full loot mmo's is best when your char is done.

 

Still, Darkfall is the best mmo out there at the moment, and I pay for three accounts.

I bet that  in the next two months stat gain will be increased.  Any takers?

Originally posted by MattMassacre

Sorry for you to hear this, but hitting endgame in 3 months ISN'T level-based.

I'm sorry for you to hear this, but you're a tool who completely missed the point.