Originally posted by Drachasor

And that's why they've cut content?  Please.
 

You can ASSUME Cryptic has magically found a way to make a great randomizer in less time than it takes to make basic content for an MMO, but they've made plenty of randomizers before and none have been impressive.  I've played plenty of games with random content, and it is not easy to make that content something that has lasting value.

Far more likely is that STO which has a very similar dev time to CO, with similar positive initial views as CO, is going to turn out very similarly to CO.  What makes this even more likely is the fact that CO was ALSO just made by Cryptic.  What is also a fact is that no good MMO was EVER made in two years.  Frankly, I am not familiar with one that was released in good condition after 3 years.  All the successes I am aware of took 4 or 5.

 Sure is a lot of speculation there. Not much fact, but plenty of speculation. Isn't guessing fun? As DoomsDay pointed out, Cryptic said very early on that they planned it to be this fast. Technology advances, we're not baking a cake here.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

You know what cryptic did to me when they were working on COH.  They dummed down the game so some moron couldn't gimp his character and cry to his mommy that his super hero couldn't kill anything because he chose wrong. Boo freaking hoo... That pissed me off to no end and I still played the game with its severely limited "new and improved" system and liked it, but I still think i would have liked the other system better.

What else did they do to me. Oh yeah, the HUGE freaking nerf they did to defenders from the end of beta to the opening of headstart. OMG. Talk about the nerf hammer being swung. During the end of beta, I actually was telling all my friends. Wow, surprisingly I feel like a strong super hero. Head start comes and I felt like I went from Superhero to only slightly stronger than the computerized citizens running around the world. So yes, I am familiar with how cryptic works.

Here's the thing about the amount of time. There have been many mmos that took 5 years and still put out shitty games. And correct me if I am wrong, but when they announced they had the ST IP, didnt they also state that they already had been working on it for a while and that people was going to be surprised at how quickly this was going to come out? It might be a great game, it might be a mediocre game and it might suck and it might turn out to be a very niche game like SWG has become. We can't say for certain that its not going to be good. I am giving it a chance and hoping for the best and not expecting the worst. The problem with thinking a game is going to suck before it releases is even if it is a decent game, that mentality is already going to doom it for those that think that way. They will nitpick every little thing to death simply because they had already conditioned themselves to hate it before it even releases.

Well, Cryptic has never been good at balance to begin with, but cutting corners on it isn't going to help (note CO).  So you can expect a very poorly balanced game from them.  That's all I am saying.  I guess we are on the same page there.
 

Yes, 4 to 5 years does not guarantee a good game, but it does allow the possibility of one.  No good MMO has ever taken just 2 years to make.  Also, I believe you confusing Cryptic's work on STO with Perpetual Studios.  The latter had been working on it, Cryptic got all of their work, but Cryptic also said what Perpetual had done was useless to them, so they had to start from scratch.

Oh, and the danger of assuming a game is going to be good is wasted money and potentially defending everything about it so that others waste their money.  I am just saying one shouldn't buy it at launch as there is no good reason to think it will be any good.  I'll check on it 3 months after launch or so and see how things are going.  I admit it is possible I am wrong, but likewise as far as you "know" it is possible I'm a talking duck using Dragon Naturally Speaking.  You can't prove I'm not, but that doesn't mean it is rational to think that I am (the duck thing is less likely, I'll grant you that).  Given the time spent on the game though, how CO turned out, the ugly facts about the Klingons, and the spin, spin, spin and vague statements about non-combat and other elements we get from Cryptic and reviews, I think it is pretty darn likely we have your standard rushed game.  There is really no reason to think otherwise.  Trust Cryptic?  They pulled a fast one with CO, so that's not logical.  Trust reviewers/fan sites?  Cryptic did things superficially well enough with CO to fool them.  Add that in with cut content and the other stuff, and you don't have a pretty picture.  So, my conclusion, based on all we have to work with, is that the most logical course of action is to not pre-order or get the initial release, but to wait and see.

Edit:  Couldn't sleep and thought up this lovely geometry analogy.

Now, a good MMO is a square.  All the parts are well-put together and it has all these nice features.  Spending 4-5 years developing an MMO will guarantee you get a rectangle.  Now, not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles, so it is definitely in the proper direction.

What Cryptic is giving us is an isosceles right triangle.  People on the same plane as the triangle (buying the spin, ignoring CO's failures, etc) just see the right angle and the fact the two sides are equal length.  They totally think it is a square.   "It's great!" they say.

People that see the spin, notice CO, notice the dropping content and short dev time, they got some z-axis action going on (all games are on the x-y plane).  They look down and say "hey, you're missing stuff!  You only got 3 sides!"

Cryptic responds with "look, if it isn't a perfect square, we'll just make it one later"  The people on the x-y plane buy it because it already looks like a square to them, and those dirty z-axis people don't even know what they are talking about.  X-Y's try to fit in every failure into a proper square shape, filling in blanks and assuming as needed.

Meanwhile, the Z-axis people are yelling "it's a triangle, for the love of all that's good in the world, it's a damn triangle!"

Originally posted by Focus*Bankai

www.tentonhammer.com/node/78277

 

the absolute BEST part of the whole article and they sum it up quite nicely.

 

Getting back to the 2,000 replies, this sort of forum overreaction embodies what a mockery beta has become. Every gasbag thinks he or she has the complete picture of the game by virtue of focus-testing a small part of the game a few hours each week, then reacts with outrage when the overall reality doesn't fit the picture in their head. What's the endgame? Developers will be increasingly unwilling to talk to anyone about their games in the future for fear of a sales snarling, pre-launch insurrection, and absolutely everything they say will pass through the PR filter. That means less information of any kind, even honest-to-goodness info, in favor of a sliced-and-diced, pre-packaged glib perception of the game prior to launch.

If that's what you all want, keep flaming. Keep interpreting dev comments on in-development games as gospel truth, instead of a snapshot of their current thinking. They're just after your pre-order money and box costs, right? Nevermind that they only make money with ongoing monthly subscriptions, threaten to cancel your pre-orders before you have the whole story
. In other words, be the asshats the Internet allows you to be, and see if devs don't give you less of a say in how these games turn out.

Good post OP couldn't agree more.
 

Originally posted by Blurr

Originally posted by Drachasor

And that's why they've cut content?  Please.
 

You can ASSUME Cryptic has magically found a way to make a great randomizer in less time than it takes to make basic content for an MMO, but they've made plenty of randomizers before and none have been impressive.  I've played plenty of games with random content, and it is not easy to make that content something that has lasting value.

Far more likely is that STO which has a very similar dev time to CO, with similar positive initial views as CO, is going to turn out very similarly to CO.  What makes this even more likely is the fact that CO was ALSO just made by Cryptic.  What is also a fact is that no good MMO was EVER made in two years.  Frankly, I am not familiar with one that was released in good condition after 3 years.  All the successes I am aware of took 4 or 5.

 Sure is a lot of speculation there. Not much fact, but plenty of speculation. Isn't guessing fun? As DoomsDay pointed out, Cryptic said very early on that they planned it to be this fast. Technology advances, we're not baking a cake here.

You are the one speculating they magically made something awesome in a shorter time than anyone else has done.
 

FACT:  CO looked good before it was released.

FACT:  Pre-release people thought so too.

FACT:  CO was hyped up a lot by Cryptic.

FACT:  CO still has very poor balance and is lacking content.

FACT:  Cryptic said they could do it "fast and cheap" there too.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to believe somehow things are totally different this time.  *rollseyes*

Oh, and the cake thing isn't a bad analogy.  Baking and automation technologies have advanced, but cakes made in factories ARE inferior to ones made by someone who knows what they are doing and takes time to make it right -- or even uses a prebuilt "engine", that is makes it from a box.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

You know what cryptic did to me when they were working on COH.  They dummed down the game so some moron couldn't gimp his character and cry to his mommy that his super hero couldn't kill anything because he chose wrong. Boo freaking hoo... That pissed me off to no end and I still played the game with its severely limited "new and improved" system and liked it, but I still think i would have liked the other system better.

What else did they do to me. Oh yeah, the HUGE freaking nerf they did to defenders from the end of beta to the opening of headstart. OMG. Talk about the nerf hammer being swung. During the end of beta, I actually was telling all my friends. Wow, surprisingly I feel like a strong super hero. Head start comes and I felt like I went from Superhero to only slightly stronger than the computerized citizens running around the world. So yes, I am familiar with how cryptic works.

Here's the thing about the amount of time. There have been many mmos that took 5 years and still put out shitty games. And correct me if I am wrong, but when they announced they had the ST IP, didnt they also state that they already had been working on it for a while and that people was going to be surprised at how quickly this was going to come out? It might be a great game, it might be a mediocre game and it might suck and it might turn out to be a very niche game like SWG has become. We can't say for certain that its not going to be good. I am giving it a chance and hoping for the best and not expecting the worst. The problem with thinking a game is going to suck before it releases is even if it is a decent game, that mentality is already going to doom it for those that think that way. They will nitpick every little thing to death simply because they had already conditioned themselves to hate it before it even releases.

Well, Cryptic has never been good at balance to begin with, but cutting corners on it isn't going to help (note CO).  So you can expect a very poorly balanced game from them.  That's all I am saying.  I guess we are on the same page there.
 

Yes, 4 to 5 years does not guarantee a good game, but it does allow the possibility of one.  No good MMO has ever taken just 2 years to make.  Also, I believe you confusing Cryptic's work on STO with Perpetual Studios.  The latter had been working on it, Cryptic got all of their work, but Cryptic also said what Perpetual had done was useless to them, so they had to start from scratch.

Oh, and the danger of assuming a game is going to be good is wasted money and potentially defending everything about it so that others waste their money.  I am just saying one shouldn't buy it at launch as there is no good reason to think it will be any good.  I'll check on it 3 months after launch or so and see how things are going.  I admit it is possible I am wrong, but likewise as far as you "know" it is possible I'm a talking duck using Dragon Naturally Speaking.  You can't prove I'm not, but that doesn't mean it is rational to think that I am (the duck thing is less likely, I'll grant you that).  Given the time spent on the game though, how CO turned out, the ugly facts about the Klingons, and the spin, spin, spin and vague statements about non-combat and other elements we get from Cryptic and reviews, I think it is pretty darn likely we have your standard rushed game.  There is really no reason to think otherwise.  Trust Cryptic?  They pulled a fast one with CO, so that's not logical.  Trust reviewers/fan sites?  Cryptic did things superficially well enough with CO to fool them.  Add that in with cut content and the other stuff, and you don't have a pretty picture.  So, my conclusion, based on all we have to work with, is that the most logical course of action is to not pre-order or get the initial release, but to wait and see.

 

Edit:  Couldn't sleep and thought up this lovely geometry analogy.

Now, a good MMO is a square.  All the parts are well-put together and it has all these nice features.  Spending 4-5 years developing an MMO will guarantee you get a rectangle.  Now, not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles, so it is definitely in the proper direction.

What Cryptic is giving us is an isosceles right triangle.  People on the same plane as the triangle (buying the spin, ignoring CO's failures, etc) just see the right angle and the fact the two sides are equal length.  They totally think it is a square.   "It's great!" they say.

People that see the spin, notice CO, notice the dropping content and short dev time, they got some z-axis action going on (all games are on the x-y plane).  They look down and say "hey, you're missing stuff!  You only got 3 sides!"

Cryptic responds with "look, if it isn't a perfect square, we'll just make it one later"  The people on the x-y plane buy it because it already looks like a square to them, and those dirty z-axis people don't even know what they are talking about.  X-Y's try to fit in every failure into a proper square shape, filling in blanks and assuming as needed.

Meanwhile, the Z-axis people are yelling "it's a triangle, for the love of all that's good in the world, it's a damn triangle!"

First off, I am not mistaking cryptics work for perpetuals. if you watch the original video announcing they had it, I clearly remember them saying that people were going to be surprised about how much work they had already done on it prior to the announcement. I could be wrong about that, but I clearly remember being excited over that because it meant we weren't going to have to wait yet another 5 years for it to be made.

Another point I want to make and I really hate using WoW as an example but here goes. Everyone talks about how polished WoW was when it released yet nobody seems to remember entire classes being utterly broken for pvp for years before they finally got some balance in. Just look at the hunter and from my understanding, this little gem is STILL in there today. There was/is a sweet spot where the hunter can do absolutely nothing. Can't fire his bow, cant use his melee weapons all because there is a 1 meter gap inbetween the bow and the melee weapons range. So, all mages had to do was freeze the little bastards and get in that spot and just blast away till your dead and there wasn't a dam thing you could do about it. That was only 1 issue with the hunter, there were many more with them as well. Several classes had issues that went on for ages before things got fixed for them. This coming from a so called polished game that was years in development. The outrage on the forums was extremely volatile and yet they ignored them for the most part. You had class reps come in to try and quell the outrage. people who didn't even truely play the class they were representing yet they would sit there and tell you that you were wrong.

There is inherent dangers in buying any video games. I just payed 60 bucks for COD modern warfare 2 and when I completed it in 6.5 hours, I was left sitting there thinking, wow I just wasted 60 bucks on a 6.5 hour game. That was almost 10 bucks per hour of playtime. That was an expensive game and I liked it, but I dont know if it was worth 60 bucks. COD:MW2, was actually a huge let down for me. I replayed the last one dozens of times and enjoyed it every single time. When i got to the end of this one, my first reaction was, That was it? that was the ending? WTF! I again, was not drawn into the game like I was with its previous version.

On the opposite note. I played dragon age: origins. It took me 74 hours to beat it. I know about half way through the game, I was making comments of, is this game ever going to end? And believe me, I said that a lot during the game. Lots of little bugs in that one that drove me mad while playing it. I also never felt like I was really drawn into the game and I think this is what made it worse. Now both of these games have gotten rave reviews from just about everywhere I have seen and yet, I didnt like them as well as the ratings for them suggested that I should have.

My point is, its all subjective till you actually play it. It doesn't matter what your friend says about the game or what is written up about it on some internet site. You simply can not know if the game is good for you, without trying it. Sure you can make an educated guess based on your own play style and how you feel about the IP it was made from, but without trying it, you can not be for certain. Every game is a gamble, no matter the reputation of the developers.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

Originally posted by Obidom

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Kaalan

 Edit: I am withdrawing my complaint since it turns out there will be a story reason for why the borg are so weak. 

If they are weak, they aren't Borg.

 

and in this one statment you finally show you ignorance about the IP

 

*golfclap*

Lets see..

Picard killed a borg queen...

Janeway Blew up Unimatrix Zero and another Queen.....

Oh yeah Borg got WTF Pwned by Species 8472, guess they really are weak.....

the lore clearly explains why they are no longer the powerhouse they once were, but hey, guess the lore doesnt interest you, jsut a good trolling over a game you are never going to play

 

I will give you the picard one but the queen was betrayed by data, and they were in the past where she didn't have her full collective at her command. Janeway had a future Janeway to help out with that one, along with future tech. That was definitely cheating in my book. and oh yeah, species 8472 was more badass than anyone had ever encountered. Everyone was weak compared to them including the federation.

Thus that future tech then becomes standard technology for Starfleet.

After Wolf349, Battle of Sector 001 and the Dominion war, Starfleet have found a flaw within the defense of their core systems. thus they sought to build more 'Warships', now Starfleet being as it is, they couldnt call them 'Warships' so instead designated them Escorts and Tactical Cruisers. Also with the return of Voyager they would have discovered the existance of Species 8472 and also the technology and stuff Voyager herself obtained from the Delta quadrant.

This alone gives Starfleet a capability to defeat the Borg, ok its not going to be as easy as 'Point and BOOM' but it would be nowhere near the losses of Wolf 349, unless the engagment was more like the Battle of the Omarian Nebula, in which case everyone is screwed.

No matter which way to look at it, the IP and Canon itself shows that the Borg are no longer the all encompassing bad guys, heck, Even the borg knew that Humans would be one of the toughest races to assimilate, thus they took different action to defeat them (First Contact, Voyagers episode with the Assimilation Virus etc)

All I can say is wait until launch and all will become more clear.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's absolutely moronic. Just because the Klingons have a warrior society doesn't automatically translate to a PvP gameplay marriage. Klingons have plenty of diplomats. They have plenty of folks flying transports. They have plenty of people making buildings and other infrastructure. Ships, weapons, raising animals for food, making bloodwine.

No, there is nothing attached to "being Klingon" that translates to PvP only or PvP predominantly. The Klingons have a thriving culture from which a ton of episodic content can be made.

Now, I understand the time constraints that Cryptic is under and why they are, in my view, short changing the Klingon faction. I don't agree, but I understand. That said, for some to try to sit there and justify that because the Klingons have a warrior society it makes sense for them to be PvP heavy...ludicrous. Completely, utterly, ludicrous.

 

While I agree with most of what you state here I have to ask what do you think of Emmert's response that Klingons will in no way be pvp centric only launching with what essentially turns out to be a starter area.

I think he is dancing around the matter as much as he can to to stay away from what is a very extreme statement. Especially since they initially told us, and it is documented, that Klingons would have the same kind of episodic content that the Federation has but in a Klingon way.

The only way I could see it not being PvP focused is if there isn't a "storyline" per say (that's what I get out of the phrase Episodic content) but there are still just as many PvE random or 1-off missions. That said, I don't see it happening. I say that because if they did have that amount of PvE missions they would be plastering that fact everywhere. The point that they have enabled Klingon - on- Klingon violence is testament in my view too.

What else would you do when you don't have anything there for the players to do PvE content wise? You let them PvP each other. See, here, we're talking game content and lack thereof. There's no "lore" reason why Klingons would be battling each other and killing each other when the Empire is at war with an outside threat. Cryptic didn't write in (as of yet, they may steal this idea) that the Empire is split on the notion to go to war with the Federation to the point they have erupt into civil war.

No, it's about not having enough time to do what they said initially, but wanting to get Klingons in there as sort of a place holder and then (hopefully) back-filling all the PvE episodic content that they had originally hoped to put in after the game starts seeing an income and they can get the CEOs and shareholders off their backs.

The above stated, it all depends on if the gaming masses want to give another company a chance to add content they promised initially for launch and had to cut or amend to make a shareholder pressured launch window. The economic crisis was very real, and these folks who play the money game (shareholders) want to start seeing some returns. Only an idiot would deny there isn't severe pressure from that angle to get it out the door.

As I see it, if Cryptic starts diverting any resources that aren't being used for beta/launch to start ironing out Klingon episodic content (they have a formula just make it Klingon) and infuse that into the game 3-4  months after launch, then they might have something very good here. If 6 months rolls around and all that's here is the same Klingon PvP stuff at launch, they risk losing many folks who take Jack at his word that they will listen to the players (who have said they want a Klingon side of equal measure) and put it in the game.

Many folks on this forum are in beta and if you look closely you'll find bits of information listed in a "not-stated" way.

I wonder who is in the Beta

Originally posted by jaxsundane

On a brighter note just realized I got accepted into beta myself (without paying 250 bucks).

I'm sure you are just the type they are looking for.

---

Originally posted by Blurr
I find it quite laughable how some people can be so focused on saying the game's being rushed, when they don't know the extent of the content in the game. We like technology that can do things faster, this is a fact. Eventually someone is bound to create a system from the ground up that can be used to develop an MMO in half the time, perhaps Cryptic is that someone. Not only that, but this is, in fact, a boon to the genre. The whole idea of an MMO is that it's a constantly evolving product. A faster iteration process simply improves this.

---

You are delusional if you think a AAA can be made in 2.5 years. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by Blurr
I find it quite laughable how some people can be so focused on saying the game's being rushed, when they don't know the extent of the content in the game. We like technology that can do things faster, this is a fact. Eventually someone is bound to create a system from the ground up that can be used to develop an MMO in half the time, perhaps Cryptic is that someone. Not only that, but this is, in fact, a boon to the genre. The whole idea of an MMO is that it's a constantly evolving product. A faster iteration process simply improves this.

---

 

You are delusional if you think a AAA can be made in 2.5 years. It's that simple.

M'Lud, I point the prosecution to Exhibit A * http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/beauturkey/102009/4850_The-AAA-game-is-a-lie- -

*Wonders how Beau and his 'Immersion' experience of Vanguard are doing these days

I see people who hate the game (without having experienced it) starting to make more and more arguments that make less and less sense. The game is a triangle? No wait, the game is a cake? Oh I know, it's a triangle cake. I like how some of these people talk about themselves like they're on a higher plane of existence and omnipotently know everything about the game, especially when they haven't played the game. They simply go off of what quotes they can pull and twist to their own agenda. It's a great source of amusement.

It's quite funny how people can say they're the biggest Trek fans ever, but continue to make hate post after hate post about the game based on what they speculate. They say they won't even try the game before they make their decision. How can you call yourself a Trek fan if you won't even try it before you decide it's the end of the world?

Originally posted by Obidom

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

---

Originally posted by Blurr
I find it quite laughable how some people can be so focused on saying the game's being rushed, when they don't know the extent of the content in the game. We like technology that can do things faster, this is a fact. Eventually someone is bound to create a system from the ground up that can be used to develop an MMO in half the time, perhaps Cryptic is that someone. Not only that, but this is, in fact, a boon to the genre. The whole idea of an MMO is that it's a constantly evolving product. A faster iteration process simply improves this.

---

 

You are delusional if you think a AAA can be made in 2.5 years. It's that simple.

 

M'Lud, I point the prosecution to Exhibit A * http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/beauturkey/102009/4850_The-AAA-game-is-a-lie- -

*Wonders how Beau and his 'Immersion' experience of Vanguard are doing these days

In other words, you cant point to one game made on such a short time schedule and being successful.  Got it.
 

Originally posted by Blurr

I see people who hate the game (without having experienced it) starting to make more and more arguments that make less and less sense. The game is a triangle? No wait, the game is a cake? Oh I know, it's a triangle cake. I like how some of these people talk about themselves like they're on a higher plane of existence and omnipotently know everything about the game, especially when they haven't played the game. They simply go off of what quotes they can pull and twist to their own agenda. It's a great source of amusement.

It's quite funny how people can say they're the biggest Trek fans ever, but continue to make hate post after hate post about the game based on what they speculate. They say they won't even try the game before they make their decision. How can you call yourself a Trek fan if you won't even try it before you decide it's the end of the world?

I didn't realize you couldn't understand what an analogy was.  That said, I've made arguments without any analogies.  Rather than counter those arguments, you just ignore them.  That's clearly because you have no counter argument at all.

It's not like my points are theoretically irrefutable.  You could point to an MMO that was made in a very short time that was good, for instance.  Of course, from a practical perspective it is impossible to do that, since such a game doesn't exist, so you resort to ad hominem attacks and the like.

Originally posted by Blurr

 

It's quite funny how people can say they're the biggest Trek fans ever, but continue to make hate post after hate post about the game based on what they speculate. They say they won't even try the game before they make their decision. How can you call yourself a Trek fan if you won't even try it before you decide it's the end of the world?

I'm glad you're having fun.

No player crews? Not Trek - which was almost exclusively about crew interactions.

P2P+cash shop? Not fit to play regardless of the IP.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

First off, I am not mistaking cryptics work for perpetuals. if you watch the original video announcing they had it, I clearly remember them saying that people were going to be surprised about how much work they had already done on it prior to the announcement. I could be wrong about that, but I clearly remember being excited over that because it meant we weren't going to have to wait yet another 5 years for it to be made.

I just combed through all the early information and saw an interview with Emmert.  The only reason he said it would take less time is because they already have an engine.  That's not really enough of a reason, because plenty of MMOs have used pre-existing engines and they still required 4+ years for a solid game.  The only thing mentioned about doing stuff earlier is that they had wanted to make one since 2000, but he never said they had done ANY work prior to acquiring the IP just that they jumped at the IP when they found out it was available.
 

The other thing you might notice looking at the original information is just how much they've had to cut out.  Player-made starbases, a console version, etc.  A lot of the stuff they said would be in it just isn't.  The lack of full Klingon content is just the latest thing, but far from the first.

doom, doom, doom...and more doom

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

I'm glad you're having fun.

No player crews? Not Trek - which was almost exclusively about crew interactions.

P2P+cash shop? Not fit to play regardless of the IP.

I totally understand where you're coming from, and the points you make are valid ones. However, I would like to point out that they are more things of personal opinion. Player crews is something that while some people think is necessary, others think would be a bad idea. I don't think we can really go down the road of how important crew interaction was in the series, because character interaction is by necessity one of the main points of a TV show, and endemic to the medium. You can't have a tv show without character interation. When you change the medium, you change the necessity of the importance of that aspect. Whether it'll end up being good or bad for the game, I would say only time can tell.

As far as the p2p+cash shop point, I think that's just personal preference. Other games do it (WoW is p2p but you can also buy pets, or buy ingame times from the trading card game, and so forth) and while I understand why someone could feel the company is just trying to bilk them out of money, they are not forcing you to buy anything from the cash shop. I think perhaps the argument would then be that they should get the cash shop stuff for free, but that cuts out another source of revenue for the developer, and as CO shows, they will still put out free stuff, just it will entice them to make more content all around.

Originally posted by Drachasor

I didn't realize you couldn't understand what an analogy was.  That said, I've made arguments without any analogies.  Rather than counter those arguments, you just ignore them.  That's clearly because you have no counter argument at all.

It's not like my points are theoretically irrefutable.  You could point to an MMO that was made in a very short time that was good, for instance.  Of course, from a practical perspective it is impossible to do that, since such a game doesn't exist, so you resort to ad hominem attacks and the like.

Perhaps you should stick to triangles and cakes, it makes about as much sense but everybody likes cake. I was simply pointing out the amusement I get out of someone going into elaborate analogies about how the game is missing this or that, when they haven't even seen the game. It's quite funny. It's amusing to see how someone can become an expert on how bad something supposedly is, when they don't actually know how it is for real.

Originally posted by Blurr

I totally understand where you're coming from, and the points you make are valid ones. However, I would like to point out that they are more things of personal opinion. Player crews is something that while some people think is necessary, others think would be a bad idea. I don't think we can really go down the road of how important crew interaction was in the series, because character interaction is by necessity one of the main points of a TV show, and endemic to the medium. You can't have a tv show without character interation. When you change the medium, you change the necessity of the importance of that aspect. Whether it'll end up being good or bad for the game, I would say only time can tell.

I think companies (who are using the IP to gain sales) have a responsibility to be faithful to that IP. Otherwise, it's just bait and switch. Players who buy the game without researching it, are going to expect to be able to play characters other than the captain.

Honestly now - a Star Trek RPG where you can't play anyone but the captain? As I have said before - there are going to be a lot of angry threads about this issue after release. Not to mention the Klingon fans.

As far as the p2p+cash shop point, I think that's just personal preference. Other games do it (WoW is p2p but you can also buy pets, or buy ingame times from the trading card game, and so forth)

 

It is about greed, and I refuse to support it.