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Aion

Aion 

General Discussion  » So why the anger against botting?

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51 posts found
  MidniteHowl

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/06
Posts: 150

12/17/09 8:40:08 AM#21
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by MidniteHowl
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by joker007mo

oh its the fact that everything the bots farm  causes the ah prices to go through the roof you cant complete quests because kill so many of x you go out there to find 3 bots completly eradicating everything in the area.

where you have to compete against a bot just to get a kill and if you dont do as much damage as the gladiator your screwed .

  several times i would spend a significant amount of time whacking away at a mob with the equivilent of a butter knife  get  the mob next to dead only to have a bot run in  after resting finish your kill  and just run along its path to grab mobs and kill them

if the bot was simply minding his own business id say ok i can live with that its when the bot is ganking kills from me because i cant kill faster or do as much damage so the kill can just be stolen which its pretty shitty for that to happen anyway i can adjust to a bot decimating the landscape but when ive clearly already been killing a mob to have it run in and pwn me is just f-ed up


 

 

I'm not talking the chinese gold farmers.  I'm talking regular players who obviously won't be hitting 50 first hopping on a bot and minding their own business.  Is that really morally bad?  And yeah it's against the rules.. you get caught you pay the price.   Assuming you have a college degree (sometimes you don't even need that) your time is of more value than the risk of getting caught.   Is this like a throwback to the D&D days where it would take forever to max out a character?   It's supposed to take long?

Like I mentioned in my post earlier here, whats wrong with using macro-editing tools that most games have for you to use? That will save you some clicks and steps. Also, why play the freakin' game just to have a bot do it for you? I can't imagine me saying to myself "hey I'm going to go buy this game, but I don't wanna play it myself, I'll have a bot do it!!" Games are meant to be fun, and they can't be fun to you if your not playing it yourself. And if the steps required to play the game are not fun to you, and you use bots to overcome it, well then maybe you shouldn't play these kind of games if taking the proper steps are not fun to you.
 


 

The proper steps have nothing to do with fun and all to do with making the game take longer.  I enjoy the pvp aspect of MMO's... the pve aspect has a lot to be desired.

So play a MMO that is mostly about PvP! Bots wouldn't be able to do much in PvP, so why ruin the PvE aspects for the rest of us? I say this in an accussing way because you obviously support botting. If  used in the context that you mentioned earlier of normal players just trying to avoid the parts of the game that bore them, I don't have a problem with that. But unfortunately nobody can tell the difference between a gold farmer bot, and regular player that just wants to level up without getting bored doing it. So for this reason bots need to go!
 

 

Also what do you mean "making the game take longer"? It's a damned MMO!! Theres no ending to get to my friend! Also why bot-race your way to the level-cap and then get bored when theres no new content out yet because you had to bot your way to that level cap before everyone else?

  joker007mo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 720

12/17/09 8:40:56 AM#22
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by greed0104

People like the OP are the reason for MMOs becoming so bad.


 

Yes because toiling away beating up computer controlled opponents that don't present a challenge makes MMO's good.....

 

yea might as well be a computer controlled player then too right ? 

why play seems it would just be cheaper to just not play

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

 
OP  12/17/09 8:44:02 AM#23
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by joker007mo

oh its the fact that everything the bots farm  causes the ah prices to go through the roof you cant complete quests because kill so many of x you go out there to find 3 bots completly eradicating everything in the area.

where you have to compete against a bot just to get a kill and if you dont do as much damage as the gladiator your screwed .

  several times i would spend a significant amount of time whacking away at a mob with the equivilent of a butter knife  get  the mob next to dead only to have a bot run in  after resting finish your kill  and just run along its path to grab mobs and kill them

if the bot was simply minding his own business id say ok i can live with that its when the bot is ganking kills from me because i cant kill faster or do as much damage so the kill can just be stolen which its pretty shitty for that to happen anyway i can adjust to a bot decimating the landscape but when ive clearly already been killing a mob to have it run in and pwn me is just f-ed up


 

 

I'm not talking the chinese gold farmers.  I'm talking regular players who obviously won't be hitting 50 first hopping on a bot and minding their own business.  Is that really morally bad?  And yeah it's against the rules.. you get caught you pay the price.   Assuming you have a college degree (sometimes you don't even need that) your time is of more value than the risk of getting caught.   Is this like a throwback to the D&D days where it would take forever to max out a character?   It's supposed to take long?

 

Your moral compass is broken. You fail to understand right from wrong, good from bad, cheating from playing by the same rules as everyone else.

You are only concerned with removing the challenge and I'm sure see nothing wrong with gold buying or selling either, as long as it makes the PVE side of the game move along more quickly.

You fail to understand what "paying your dues" means and how there is some honor and pride in proving you did it.

There's no point to having a conversation over this, because of your viewpoint.

Know that no one likes to play by the rules when other folks don't, and for some of us its important to play by the rules.

MMORPG's are not simply about one thing, like PVP, they are supposed to be a journey you enjoy with a goal in mind.

Granted, more and more games just stick you on a treadmill toward the end game, but it doesn't have to be that way. (Play EVE if you don't understand)

 

 


 

Would totally play Eve seriously if the game was a bit more fun.  I loved it till my huge ship couldn't destroy an elite ship 1/10th it's size and it's peewee weapons and shields could almost kill me outright.  It wasn't like an amazing alien race either... it was some pirate npc.  I finally killed it... and looted it only to find it was carrying peeeweee weapons.... uninstalled it at that point because the enterprise complex ended.

 

I haven't really seen any honor or pride ever in an MMO (well in DAoC there was).  In fact most of what I see is vile and ignorant...  personally I really don't care if I did piss them off.  Oh no their accomplishments don't mean as much and I didn't pay my dues to them.

 

I'm crying here really.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

 
OP  12/17/09 8:50:41 AM#24
Originally posted by joker007mo
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by greed0104

People like the OP are the reason for MMOs becoming so bad.


 

Yes because toiling away beating up computer controlled opponents that don't present a challenge makes MMO's good.....

 

yea might as well be a computer controlled player then too right ? 

why play seems it would just be cheaper to just not play


 

You're probably right, but I try to find the fun somewhere in these games.  I haven't botted yet, but I've taken a look around.  I'd rather skip to 50 and play that... my main is sitting at 43.6 and honestly I've lost all enjoyment on the pve side with him even though apparently I play well enough that people cry that I fell behind leveling and can't group with them anymore.

And as I said above..  I really like the idea of making all those idiots I run into in these games to feel like their accomplishments meant nothing.  Also to be blunt...it's a video game none of the accomplishments mean jack shit anyhow.

 

  User Deleted
12/17/09 9:03:46 AM#25
Originally posted by Angier2758

Actually that was crying for why I don't like Eve.  Yes calling someone a sissy in a video game forum isn't ironic or anything.

 

However crying about actually having to play a game is a bit Ironic.

I wouldn't say you're a sissy, more like a spoiled brat of some sort. Basically you don't want to do it so you back out while somebody or something does everything for you.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

 
OP  12/17/09 9:12:22 AM#26

Not really a spoiled brat sorry.  I just don't see how grinding easy mobs makes me a man.  If we wanted to have a discussion about sissy brats and men.. lets go cut down trees or something.

but after playing these games for 10 years now I've seen the games regress into carebear lovey dovey land and the players become even bigger jerks.  Top legion on my server and they run from a 2 on 1 fight to their guards......

 

If I could hack the game and insta kill whoever I wanted... I totally would.

 

PS- before I have to go...  It isn't ironic because a lot of the pve in these games isn't playing, it's tedious work.  Like if you had to type "Sarah Smith Had a Very Soft Sheep" 5,000 times to level.

  User Deleted
12/17/09 9:17:06 AM#27
Originally posted by Angier2758

Not really a spoiled brat sorry.  I just don't see how grinding easy mobs makes me a man.  If we wanted to have a discussion about sissy brats and men.. lets go cut down trees or something.

but after playing these games for 10 years now I've seen the games regress into carebear lovey dovey land and the players become even bigger jerks.  Top legion on my server and they run from a 2 on 1 fight to their guards......

 

If I could hack the game and insta kill whoever I wanted... I totally would.

 

PS- before I have to go...  It isn't ironic because a lot of the pve in these games isn't playing, it's tedious work.  Like if you had to type "Sarah Smith Had a Very Soft Sheep" 5,000 times to level.

The final sentence holds truth, but if you can't deal with it, why play? Plenty other games coming out trying to eliminate the grind. Well not exactly eliminate it, it will always be there, but you can cover it up so it's hardly noticable. To be honest AION is a borefest. But I wouldn't resort to this, what's the point bro? It has nothing to do with being a "man" it has more to do with why spend money on something you have to exploit to enjoy?

  User Deleted
12/17/09 9:18:10 AM#28

It's sort of like cheating. Even tho' honestly 99% of ALL mmorpgs the gameplay just turns humans into grinding robots. So I stopped thinking that way about 2001.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2282

12/17/09 9:18:27 AM#29
Originally posted by Angier2758


 

Back when I was in highschool.  You could get busted for using a TI calculator program to do the math for you.  Some could work out equations and some calculus... but it's cheating.  There was a guy in my class who wrote one of these programs.  Someone saw him using it on a test.  The teacher goes "He can use it, he programmed it.  If he understood the lesson well enough to make a program for it he's obviously going to do well on the test regardless."  He showed the teacher beforehand of course.  That's kind of my point..... if it's easy enough that people can make a program to do it.... why not?

Assuming the program takes knowledge of the game to use... otherwise you end up with an ebay'ish problem.


 

 Ok let me see if i get you right here. if someones smart enough to make a program to screw others over (as has been explained to you in many post here) then they should be allowed to screw others over? Forget the point your bot progerams raising prices or keeping other from completing quests because your either killing all the mobs needed of stealing thiers its ok because you got a program? (and lets not kid yourself you probably didn't program it as your to lazy to play the game your probably to lazy to invest the effort to write the bot program).

  The other poster was right you don't understand and no amount of explaining will probably help you understand. MMO's are social games about other people beside yourself. You can only see your desires though and dispite all the messages people have posted pointing out how botting hurts other's games your like "screw them I got what i wanted". Please do everyone a favor if the games to boring to play as intended then don't play it, and as you really don't care about other people playing the game  and are more then willing to evidently screw people over to get what you want please play a single player game where you can bot to your hearts content.  Trust me using a bot to try and show your better then others really isn't impressing anyone except maybe yourself.

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2282

12/17/09 9:26:36 AM#30
Originally posted by Angier2758


 

You're probably right, but I try to find the fun somewhere in these games.  I haven't botted yet, but I've taken a look around.  I'd rather skip to 50 and play that... my main is sitting at 43.6 and honestly I've lost all enjoyment on the pve side with him even though apparently I play well enough that people cry that I fell behind leveling and can't group with them anymore.

And as I said above..  I really like the idea of making all those idiots I run into in these games to feel like their accomplishments meant nothing.  Also to be blunt...it's a video game none of the accomplishments mean jack shit anyhow.

 


 

 But evidently the accomplishments mean something to you as you feel the need to play a game you find dull, and boring to get said acheivements. Truely wake up and look in the mirror, you've only become part of what you claim to hate.

  You've also made it plain why you play or should we say bot the game. Your whole goal is simply as you stated to make other that you feel are "idiots" pay because they accomplished something within the rules that you could not. Really you are pretty sad as you don't play for fun but simply out of hate.

  Doomsayer

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 345

_____________________

I am the rocks of the eternal shore. Crash against me, and be broken.

12/17/09 9:39:42 AM#31

Man, you have caught a ton of fish with this bait, well done.

________________________________

Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.

  Quailman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/08/09
Posts: 170

12/17/09 10:03:44 AM#32
Originally posted by Doomsayer

Man, you have caught a ton of fish with this bait, well done.

 

Indeed, I've enjoyed reading some of the responses.

Consume. Be silent. Die.

  User Deleted
12/17/09 10:39:56 AM#33
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by joker007mo

oh its the fact that everything the bots farm  causes the ah prices to go through the roof you cant complete quests because kill so many of x you go out there to find 3 bots completly eradicating everything in the area.

where you have to compete against a bot just to get a kill and if you dont do as much damage as the gladiator your screwed .

  several times i would spend a significant amount of time whacking away at a mob with the equivilent of a butter knife  get  the mob next to dead only to have a bot run in  after resting finish your kill  and just run along its path to grab mobs and kill them

if the bot was simply minding his own business id say ok i can live with that its when the bot is ganking kills from me because i cant kill faster or do as much damage so the kill can just be stolen which its pretty shitty for that to happen anyway i can adjust to a bot decimating the landscape but when ive clearly already been killing a mob to have it run in and pwn me is just f-ed up


 

 

I'm not talking the chinese gold farmers.  I'm talking regular players who obviously won't be hitting 50 first hopping on a bot and minding their own business.  Is that really morally bad?  And yeah it's against the rules.. you get caught you pay the price.   Assuming you have a college degree (sometimes you don't even need that) your time is of more value than the risk of getting caught.   Is this like a throwback to the D&D days where it would take forever to max out a character?   It's supposed to take long?


 

a normal player botting would be no different than a gold farmer botting, BOTH will have aquired way more than average gold amassed on their account wich will flood the market driving prices through the roof. and players that DON'T bot and refuse to CHEAT will be at a serious dissadvantage because thier computer isn't exping/farming gold for them while they sleep, school, work, or just not in the mood to actually play.

bot programs don't just kill and leave the dead mob lay there, they will loot everything and anything and once full will go to town junk unusables and bank rares for the player to AH when they get on. say you make 100k adverage in a gaming stint of 4 hours of playing, you then bot the other 20 hours. normally you'd only have made 100k but since you cheated you made a total of 600k a day. see what i'm getting at here?

so to sum it up, botters RUIN THE ECONOMY gold sellers or not!

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

 
OP  12/20/09 2:00:15 AM#34
Originally posted by abyss610
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by joker007mo

oh its the fact that everything the bots farm  causes the ah prices to go through the roof you cant complete quests because kill so many of x you go out there to find 3 bots completly eradicating everything in the area.

where you have to compete against a bot just to get a kill and if you dont do as much damage as the gladiator your screwed .

  several times i would spend a significant amount of time whacking away at a mob with the equivilent of a butter knife  get  the mob next to dead only to have a bot run in  after resting finish your kill  and just run along its path to grab mobs and kill them

if the bot was simply minding his own business id say ok i can live with that its when the bot is ganking kills from me because i cant kill faster or do as much damage so the kill can just be stolen which its pretty shitty for that to happen anyway i can adjust to a bot decimating the landscape but when ive clearly already been killing a mob to have it run in and pwn me is just f-ed up


 

 

I'm not talking the chinese gold farmers.  I'm talking regular players who obviously won't be hitting 50 first hopping on a bot and minding their own business.  Is that really morally bad?  And yeah it's against the rules.. you get caught you pay the price.   Assuming you have a college degree (sometimes you don't even need that) your time is of more value than the risk of getting caught.   Is this like a throwback to the D&D days where it would take forever to max out a character?   It's supposed to take long?


 

a normal player botting would be no different than a gold farmer botting, BOTH will have aquired way more than average gold amassed on their account wich will flood the market driving prices through the roof. and players that DON'T bot and refuse to CHEAT will be at a serious dissadvantage because thier computer isn't exping/farming gold for them while they sleep, school, work, or just not in the mood to actually play.

bot programs don't just kill and leave the dead mob lay there, they will loot everything and anything and once full will go to town junk unusables and bank rares for the player to AH when they get on. say you make 100k adverage in a gaming stint of 4 hours of playing, you then bot the other 20 hours. normally you'd only have made 100k but since you cheated you made a total of 600k a day. see what i'm getting at here?

so to sum it up, botters RUIN THE ECONOMY gold sellers or not!


 

Honestly... I'm sitting here reading the Aion forums and there are people crying that double xp weekend is not fair to be the people who matter because they already got 50 (verbatim).

 

Not gonna lie I *hope* I ruin the game for those people and I would do it with a smile on my face.  

  User Deleted
12/20/09 2:07:50 AM#35
Originally posted by nikoliath

 

Some of us hate it for the same reason we hate to sit at a card table with cheaters. The fact is, botting is against the rules, rules that the rest of us adhere to btw.


 

Could of ended the thread with this. If its allowed, awesome. If not, awesome. Rules change the way a game is played.

A deck of cards is transformed into many different games purely based on the rules that are enforced. 

What a powerful thing, a rule is. The power to create, the power to destroy, and the power to test.

  xephonics

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/05
Posts: 683

12/20/09 2:23:11 AM#36

 my main reasons for hating botters in mmos:

They ruin the economy (even one person can have negative effects)
They tend to easily win in pvp/raids since they have higher lvls and gear that they did not actually earn
They tend to KS and take up hunting spots that real players could use
They are lazy, and lazy people annoy me in general

My god has horns.... nah, I don't think he is real either.

  ozerinx

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 201

12/20/09 2:43:35 AM#37
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by Omali

 I'll tell you about it when you're older.


 

I am older.  That's the point.  Where is the negative morality of skipping something that is not challenging and is just tedious?   I've been playing MMO's since I was 16 when EQ came out... I get how to play and tweak a class in PVE. 

If the game is about pvp... why do I have to sit through weeks of blah to get to what I enjoy?  Does it make me a better player?  Not really.  Does it show hardwork and dedication.... sure, but it's mostly tedious work... nothing hard about it.

 

 

Where is the morality in toil?

 

no offence... PvE 90% of the time link to ur PvP skill. Of course some games you can argue it but, take Ragnarok Online for example, grinding to level vs grinding to level fast and efficiently is VERY different. Botters can bot to 99 non-trans in ro in 1-2 weeks 24/7. A good player not even pro level can do it in a week, and have the reflex and skills from mobbing etc to use in pvp.

  User Deleted
12/20/09 2:50:04 AM#38
Originally posted by Pheace

It's ok. You don't get it. We realize some like you are out there, no need to get your feathers ruffled or anything.

 

Seeing this as the first reply made my day.

 

Thanks, Pheace! :)

 

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

12/20/09 5:18:54 PM#39

The simple reason is the people who hate the botters the most are the people who behave the most like bots, ie. the ppl who love to grind.

 

It is often functionally extremely hard to differentiate botters from grinders, the only obvious give aways are are the obvious setpoints and no reactions to potentially bad things.  For example I have a seen a botter (who was a normal player botting not a RMT bot) in a really high repop area who we could tell was botting mainly because they were not reacting appropriately to the crazy respawn in that area (some areas in Aion have insanely fast respawn, some of these areas are even fairly small and make little sense as to why).  Eventually their program failed and they had three things on them and died.  Otherwise they basically appeared like anyone else doing hours and hours of grinding in the same vicinity.  The other main giveawat was they had an obvious reset point when a mob died.

 

Hatred is not really triggered in people by all that many causes.  They are hated because they are so similar, as opposed to simple dislike that is generally far more common.  Sad but true.  Love and hate two sides of the same coin.

 

The funny thing is grind advocates hate it when you compare them to bots, but that is all they are human robots.  Its like an Issac Asimov novel or something ;P

 

Note: this does not disqualify the valid exampels of bad effects bots have, but one should realize its all related.  Robots do some jobs better.  Grinding is robotic.  You are fighting gravity and you know it, so you hate it.  Rather than simply acknowledging a problem and dealing with it.

  User Deleted
12/20/09 8:51:24 PM#40
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by MidniteHowl

First it goes against just about all MMO games rules for playing the game. That's all I need to say about that part.

 

Second, it's not the act that is the problem, it's the effect it has on the rest of the gamers that is the problem. Do you know why these people are using botting techniques? I'll tell ya. Most of these people do it because they are gold farmers/sellers. So they have bots automatically do the work for them just so they can try to make a buck by selling the stuff for real money, which in turn affects the in-game economy for the rest of us that actually do the work! Not only that, it's illegal in most games to sell in-game items for real money!

 

I guess there's times where some regular people want to play the game but don't want to do the repetitve steps to do it and use bots to do the work for them. I wouldnt have a huge problem with this but unfortunately most will not use it for this reason. Besides if people want to eliminate a few steps, most games offer a macro editing tool that helps eliminate some of the button mashing and mouse-clicking steps. So whats wrong with this option? Why would you still need bots? Probably because you are doing something that goes against the Terms of Use agreement policy that we all say we agree to when we first enter a game.

 

 

 


 

Back when I was in highschool.  You could get busted for using a TI calculator program to do the math for you.  Some could work out equations and some calculus... but it's cheating.  There was a guy in my class who wrote one of these programs.  Someone saw him using it on a test.  The teacher goes "He can use it, he programmed it.  If he understood the lesson well enough to make a program for it he's obviously going to do well on the test regardless."  He showed the teacher beforehand of course.  That's kind of my point..... if it's easy enough that people can make a program to do it.... why not?

Assuming the program takes knowledge of the game to use... otherwise you end up with an ebay'ish problem.

Ahhh yes... another of those people with the whole "I don't like the rules, so they shouldn't apply to me" mentality. Gotta love it.

Tell ya what.. instead of arguing with us here on these forums where it's easy to just say "I'm right, and you're wrong"... why don't you take your debate to the people who make the rules and whose say *does* matter? Call up NCSoft - or any other MMO developer you know of - give them that little "school math test" analogy as a justification for why you should be allowed to bot because "you don't feel like grinding". See how much mileage you get out of that. NCSoft's phone number is available on their site, so you should have no problem contacting them.

If you're *really* feeling confident in your position being right, make sure to give them your account info, server and character name and invite them to come watch you bot away while they watch.

Make sure to come back and let us know how that turns out for ya.

It's amazing the spoiled/entitled mentality people have these days.

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