So Cryptic has said that klingon's will focus largely on pvp because pve content will be minute at launch.

My concern/question relates to whether they are "focused" on pvp just because the lack of pve content, or if their ships will also innately be better suited for pvp in a way that hampers federation competitiveness in combat? 

For instance, Cryptic released information about a klingon cruiser that will launch fighters, and it will be the only ship in the game able to do such a thing. Has there been any information about a unique ship mechanic for federation ships?

I know about klingon's getting cloaks, which isn't a problem for me (given that you can't shield while cloaked), but my concern stems from the fact that ship on ship pvp combat is a major (the major) thing that draws me towards the game, but I kinda have a thing about being human in fantasy/sci fi games I play.

Just wondering if anyone is understanding something I'm not, or even if you have the same concern.

While nobody has, as far as I know, tested PvP yet since klingons aren't in the beta, then all I can give you is my opinion, but personally this isn't something that I would worry about at all. The devs have been pretty clear about their number one priority being making the game "fun" and balanced.

Several of us disagree with their priorities, but since that wasn't your question, and it's also already been debated in almost every other thread on this board, then I won't go into that here.

Originally posted by Kaalan

While nobody has, as far as I know, tested PvP yet since klingons aren't in the beta

Yeah, that's a great way to ensure fun...devs should really test and balance things a lot less.
 

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Kaalan

While nobody has, as far as I know, tested PvP yet since klingons aren't in the beta

Yeah, that's a great way to ensure fun...devs should really test and balance things a lot less.
 

On that note, I find it quite surprising that the devs have already decided to remove the cloaking ability of the Vo'Quv before it was even tested (by players), especially since they advertised the ship on their site as:

Increased engine efficiency allows the Vo'Quv to travel great distances before the dilithium crystals must be realigned, and the ship carries electronic countermeasures capable of hampering enemy sensors. The Vo'Quv has the energy necessary to use these countermeasures even when cloaked.
Granted they gave its fighters the cloaking ability, and the change may indeed have been needed for balance, so I'm not claiming that it has been ”nerfed” or anything like that, I just worry about changes made with so little testing, and if indeed such little testing was needed to determine that it was overpowered, then why wasn't this detected at a much earlier stage of design by someone.

Some may claim that posts like this are why devs don't like to give us information, because then once they need to change something people get upset, and I understand that point, but I am not upset or angry about it, or anything like that, I would just like to know why this change was deemed necessary, and how it was tested and evaluated and so on.

the Vo'Quv is a pretty big and nasty ship. It's description alone makes one wonder if it could possibly be a single ship that might require a small fleet to take just it out.

By not giving it the ability to cloak, this balances its obvious tanking qualities and makes it vulnerable to federation fleets and a ship that may actually be a hinderance. For examples, if it can't cloak and all its escorts end up cloaking, guess what the fed fleet is going to attack? Also, by not being able to cloak, and maybe making repairs while cloaked, the rest of the fleet will have to defend it. Much like Real fleets are built around the carrier. While it can work as bait as well, it's probably going to be big, slow, pretty powerful but vulnerable to concentrated firepower and fast light ships like the defiant.

As far as PVP balance, if you read between the lines, the klingons put all their weapons up front. This is true of the cannon too: Brel has no side or rear firing weapons. The Klingons will be forward firing sluggers who come straight on, and typically they cloak when outflanked, while the Federation is most notable for its huge firing arcs and very good maneuverability. Klingon captains will want to keep the federation at their front and the feds will want to try to run rings around the klingons.

Originally posted by Deadeye31

As far as PVP balance, if you read between the lines, the klingons put all their weapons up front. This is true of the cannon too: Brel has no side or rear firing weapons. The Klingons will be forward firing sluggers who come straight on, and typically they cloak when outflanked, while the Federation is most notable for its huge firing arcs and very good maneuverability. Klingon captains will want to keep the federation at their front and the feds will want to try to run rings around the klingons.

PvP balance requires extensive testing, which they haven't been doing and no longer have time for.  A few factors off a bit and the whole balance is tossed out of whack.  This happens fairly easily.
 

So what we've got here so far is worries and "I don't know" as an answer. I suppose that's the point of beta though, for them to test and balance the factions.

As far as the Federation's viability, I believe there still is some. From what I can tell, it looks like the Klingon ships don't get a "science" type vessel, geared more towards debuffing and the like. I also seem to remember someone saying that Science vessels get bonuses to seeing through cloak, and Feds getting some of that as well.

Additionally, if the Klingon vessels have more forward-facing weapons, then potentially Federations could outgun them simply by positioning properly. It will be interesting to see the tactics that go into this, and positioning/maneuverability will become a signifigant factor. This further leads me to believe science vessels, if they can cripple a klingon's engines or maneuvering, might be the deciding factor in some fights.

Originally posted by Blurr

So what we've got here so far is worries and "I don't know" as an answer. I suppose that's the point of beta though, for them to test and balance the factions.

I agree, but KLINGONS AREN'T IN BETA. 
 

Originally posted by Blurr

Additionally, if the Klingon vessels have more forward-facing weapons, then potentially Federations could outgun them simply by positioning properly. It will be interesting to see the tactics that go into this, and positioning/maneuverability will become a signifigant factor. This further leads me to believe science vessels, if they can cripple a klingon's engines or maneuvering, might be the deciding factor in some fights.

On the other hand, cloaking tech coupled with all those forward firing weapons reeks of ambush and surprise attack tactics. A first strike might balance that scenario a bit.

Depends on how good the science vessels are at detecting and how powerful that first strike actually is. I believe that Federation ships are generally better shielded too, so that's another factor.

Originally posted by Scrogdog

Originally posted by Blurr

Additionally, if the Klingon vessels have more forward-facing weapons, then potentially Federations could outgun them simply by positioning properly. It will be interesting to see the tactics that go into this, and positioning/maneuverability will become a signifigant factor. This further leads me to believe science vessels, if they can cripple a klingon's engines or maneuvering, might be the deciding factor in some fights.

On the other hand, cloaking tech coupled with all those forward firing weapons reeks of ambush and surprise attack tactics. A first strike might balance that scenario a bit.

Depends on how good the science vessels are at detecting and how powerful that first strike actually is. I believe that Federation ships are generally better shielded too, so that's another factor.

But maybe they can't be detected well enough, and that first strike is too powerful, so the Klingons have a huge advantage.  Or maybe it is too weak or too easily detected, so the Feds overwhelm and outmaneuver the Klingons easily.  Or maybe the Feds can't outmaneuver the Klingons, so they get slaughtered and constantly attacked from behind.  There are tons of balance issues that have to be addressed here, and not having Klingons in beta is a huge problem.
 

There just isn't enough information available to know yet.

Given that all we can do is speculate, does anyone else get the same feeling I do, that Klingons will be slightly stronger in 1v1 encounters, but that their lack of variety (science vessel style abilities) will make them weaker in group encounters? (Without taking into account the skill of group members and other such factors)

and we all know every other game came out of beta well balanced and bugless...

Originally posted by mbd1968

and we all know every other game came out of beta well balanced and bugless...

They came out better than when they went in.  Seriously, are you arguing they SHOULDN'T playtest the Klingons?
 

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by mbd1968

and we all know every other game came out of beta well balanced and bugless...

They came out better than when they went in.  Seriously, are you arguing they SHOULDN'T playtest the Klingons?
 

I think, or at least I hope, he was being sarcastic.

Considering the beta isn't over yet, I would imagine this will all be worked out. Worrying about it now is just too soon really. Getting overly upset over something that hasn't happened yet doesn't seem reasonable.

To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before

Klingons are not goin anywhere.

giev me my U.S.S. Enterprise and i will fly it to Eden.

I´m TOS fan so it doens´t matter what role Klingons will get,but they better to give me flying microbes and Tholian webs.

Don't worry OP, when Cyrptic says the Klingons are PvP focused they just mean that they won't have any PvE content.  If you like to play humans (and keep in mind the federation has many other races as well) then you are in luck because that is what the game is designed around.  Cryptic has never done a faction based game before (CoV was never anything more than a standalone game before they sold it to NCsoft), and so expect the Klingons to be "tacked on"like monsterplay in LotRO.  

Originally posted by Kaalan

There just isn't enough information available to know yet.

Given that all we can do is speculate, does anyone else get the same feeling I do, that Klingons will be slightly stronger in 1v1 encounters, but that their lack of variety (science vessel style abilities) will make them weaker in group encounters? (Without taking into account the skill of group members and other such factors)

Could be. But the Klingons can also use any bridge officer at any station. I'm still trying to judge the ramifications of that.

At first I'm like... so what? :) But a few folks over on the official boards seemed excited about it.

Perhaps placing tactical officers at each station is good?

Originally posted by Scrogdog

Could be. But the Klingons can also use any bridge officer at any station. I'm still trying to judge the ramifications of that.

At first I'm like... so what? :) But a few folks over on the official boards seemed excited about it.

Perhaps placing tactical officers at each station is good?

I guess that will depend on what they meant by it.  (I'm copying someone elses post to show what I mean by that)

It says: Bridge Officer stations aren’t restricted by class, meaning Captains will be able to put any Bridge Officer they like into any station,

Not: Bridge Officer stations aren’t restricted by class, meaning Captains will be able to put any Bridge Officer they like into any station thereby turning a Science station into a tactical station

So IMHO you can put as many tactical officers as you want (say to repel boarding parties on the bridge) but they will still use the station as intended example if you put a tactical officer on a science station he would simply be a crappy science officer as far as space combat is concerened

Originally posted by Kaalan

Originally posted by Scrogdog

Could be. But the Klingons can also use any bridge officer at any station. I'm still trying to judge the ramifications of that.

At first I'm like... so what? :) But a few folks over on the official boards seemed excited about it.

Perhaps placing tactical officers at each station is good?

 

I guess that will depend on what they meant by it.  (I'm copying someone elses post to show what I mean by that)

It says: Bridge Officer stations aren’t restricted by class, meaning Captains will be able to put any Bridge Officer they like into any station,

Not: Bridge Officer stations aren’t restricted by class, meaning Captains will be able to put any Bridge Officer they like into any station thereby turning a Science station into a tactical station

So IMHO you can put as many tactical officers as you want (say to repel boarding parties on the bridge) but they will still use the station as intended example if you put a tactical officer on a science station he would simply be a crappy science officer as far as space combat is concerened

Yeah, pretty murky.

Plus... boarding parties? Doesn't make sense without full interiors. No one would board the bridge. They'd go for engineering. Or at least both at the same time. Control of the bridge means nothing as security could essentially lock you up and lock you out right there.

In fact, going for the bridge alone would be kinda dumb.