I feel better that Jack came clean for why this is happening. I have faith in Cryptic. I also like that he said that they'll listen to the player base for direction...

Overall I am not as upset as I thought I would be. The mere fact that this is a Star Trek game and an mmo leads us to unlimited possibillites over time. This can become one awesome game over the next couple years and well into the future.

I think it is worth trying.  I am disappointed that Klingons will not have more PvE content.  I am just hoping that Klingon PvP doesn't become a gank-fest.  I'll just have to reserve my opinion until I actually see it. 

QAPLA!!!

Originally posted by Blurr

Initially I was trepidatious about this change, however, now I realize that it really isn't simply a hollow shell of a faction as I'd thought. The fact that they've molded it into a mostly pvp faction does two good things. Firstly it offers a different type of gameplay instead of just having a mirror of the federation gameplay. Secondly, it allows them to fully flesh out another part of the gameplay (pvp) instead of it just being like pve except against players.

One of the things I thought was coolest about WoW was that the horde and the alliance sides were two different sides. Now with everything being basically cross-polinated, horde and alliance are simply just mirrors of eachother with different skins. It appears with STO, the Feds and the Klings will actually be two different gameplay styles (for the most part), something no game that I know has ever really done. This could turn out quite awesome.

I could not agree more!

I plan on playing a toon for both factions. Even though I don't normally enjoy PvP. This is different; it's an attitude thing. :)

Just like that scene from the movie when the Klingon Commander (Jim from Taxi :)) orders his men to board the Enterprise and his first reminds him that they are outnumbered.

WE ARE KLINGONS!!!!

I hope I get some actual Klingons to play with when I get there. Sheesh.

And for those who say that they don't want to PvP all the time, well neither do I!  Hence my Federation counterpart.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

The issue is in the second quotation, "It’s just a simple matter of you have a certain amount of time ....."

How many companies do we see that have undesirable time constraints put on game projects. Whoever is in change needs to be more flexible with the time line so we would see idea's come reality at release and not half attempts with an add on / update later on.

 

While I don't disagree that game companies should be allowed all the time they need to get a game just 'right' I'm sad to say that the real world doesn't work that way. The timetables are really set by the investors and and the IP holder so contracts are signed agreeing to this before the developer see's one shiny dime of investor money or the IP in question. Sometimes in extreme cases they can get the investors to give them another month or two but what some people are asking for(6 months to a year delay) where STO is concerned is just not feasible and just won't happen. Cryptic had their timetable set for them when they got the IP license from CBS and the funding for the game from investors. They are under contract to meet that deadline. It sucks, yes but it is the reality of it all. In a perfect world developers would have all the time and money they need to make perfect games but we don't live in that world now do we?

As for the article it was very enlightening and explains a lot, not only about the decisions they have made but why they were made as well. Sure, I too wanted the Klingons to be a faction that was playable from the start but perhaps that will come in time. I will still play and reserve my judgment of the game until I've had that chance.

Bren

 im glad lots of you out there do love the federation, good for you.  dam carebears j/k.  i am sad that romulans and cardassians will end up being 6months to a year down the road as expansion material, but we have to accept the fact that in todays mmo market the people paying for the game developement demand product out making money back asap.  has cryptic made some stinky shit in the past?  god knows they have, but as long as i can play my klingon and indescriminantly blow shit up im a very happy little pyromaniac!  Q'Plau, dam the torpedoes RAMMING SPEED!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Ruwin

I feel better that Jack came clean for why this is happening. I have faith in Cryptic. I also like that he said that they'll listen to the player base for direction...

Overall I am not as upset as I thought I would be. The mere fact that this is a Star Trek game and an mmo leads us to unlimited possibillites over time. This can become one awesome game over the next couple years and well into the future.

 

Yeah, so support that Developer with your money in the mean time because all the stuff they promise will happen 'soon'^(TM)?

...

Look, seriously, good on you if you like what is on offer, now, at release.
But my advice would be don't buy on promises of what the game could be, could become or planned additions / features.

When you buy a game you get what is in the box.  Anything else, any promises, any plans are just 'potential'.

Every MMO ever has 'potential'.

But very few ever realise that potential.

And gamers that throw money at these Developers don't send the message "we support what you are trying to do..."
They send the message "We are prepared to pay for the crap you just served up."

Originally posted by neorandom

 im glad lots of you out there do love the federation, good for you.  dam carebears j/k.  i am sad that romulans and cardassians will end up being 6months to a year down the road as expansion material, but we have to accept the fact that in todays mmo market the people paying for the game developement demand product out making money back asap.  has cryptic made some stinky shit in the past?  god knows they have, but as long as i can play my klingon and indescriminantly blow shit up im a very happy little pyromaniac!  Q'Plau, dam the torpedoes RAMMING SPEED!!!!!!!!

Now you're talking! I hope my Klingon toon meets yours.

Perhaps it IS a good day to die!!!

Mwhahahaha!!!!!

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

The issue is in the second quotation, "It’s just a simple matter of you have a certain amount of time ....."

How many companies do we see that have undesirable time constraints put on game projects. Whoever is in change needs to be more flexible with the time line so we would see idea's come reality at release and not half attempts with an add on / update later on.

 

While I don't disagree that game companies should be allowed all the time they need to get a game just 'right' I'm sad to say that the real world doesn't work that way. The timetables are really set by the investors and and the IP holder so contracts are signed agreeing to this before the developer see's one shiny dime of investor money or the IP in question. Sometimes in extreme cases they can get the investors to give them another month or two but what some people are asking for(6 months to a year delay) where STO is concerned is just not feasible and just won't happen. Cryptic had their timetable set for them when they got the IP license from CBS and the funding for the game from investors. They are under contract to meet that deadline. It sucks, yes but it is the reality of it all. In a perfect world developers would have all the time and money they need to make perfect games but we don't live in that world now do we?

 

As for the article it was very enlightening and explains a lot, not only about the decisions they have made but why they were made as well. Sure, I too wanted the Klingons to be a faction that was playable from the start but perhaps that will come in time. I will still play and reserve my judgment of the game until I've had that chance.

 

Bren

Of course your points are very valid and spot on, I guess better project management to allow for the talent and ideas to fully come through better could be worked upon. ST was an IP jumped on by Cryptic under the impression a lot of the ground work has been accomplished through engine maturity. Game mechanics in space and on the ground I think look good. I would of liked to see Cryptic follow through more on the ideas that could of been for release rather than down the road. Not to take anything away from what the team has accomplished so far but to somehow give them more freedom, more negiotating with investers and a better chance to incorporate those things many feel a little disappointed about not being their to start with.

Hey I understand especially with the same thing happening with AoC. Sometimes features just don't make it to launch. But ST:O has had a relatively short development time has it not?

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Of course your points are very valid and spot on, I guess better project management to allow for the talent and ideas to fully come through better could be worked upon. ST was an IP jumped on by Cryptic under the impression a lot of the ground work has been accomplished through engine maturity. Game mechanics in space and on the ground I think look good. I would of liked to see Cryptic follow through more on the ideas that could of been for release rather than down the road. Not to take anything away from what the team has accomplished so far but to somehow give them more freedom, more negiotating with investers and a better chance to incorporate those things many feel a little disappointed about not being their to start with.

Hey I understand especially with the same thing happening with AoC. Sometimes features just don't make it to launch. But ST:O has had a relatively short development time has it not?

You dare be well-mannered and post to a Klingon topic??

WE ARE AT WAR!!!!

GAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

;)

Earlier today i expressed my disappointment at not being able to play Klingons from the start. It is a bit of a let down, but after thinking about the bigger picture and not having a quality mmo scifi game since leaving SOE's SWG car wreck over 3 years ago, I have been left in the duldrums of WoW, GW, and Lotro. This has softened my brain. STO which I have yet to play could be an excellent break from the magic based mmo's that i have played out. I tried EVE online too much clicky clicky and no real ship driving, if game play is like EVE I will not like it one bit. I want to drive the truck and wreck it if i need. I say, BRING IT!!! Klingons or no mmo's need a real scifi game out there and face it Star Trek is the science fiction many of us have been waiting for most of our lives. "Make it so!"

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I agree with the first of what Avery said. Who exactly is in charge of these of managing the clock on these products. They ALL seem to not have enough time to put in the core features they promised in the manner they promised.

I mean jeeze! Are the shareholders and CEOs and publishers really low balling every company on the time it takes to do what they list in the initial game design document as some of this site's guest writers suggest? Or are the teams universally that crappy at time management? Or does the amount of time spent creating little bits and pieces to show at shows taking away from necessary productivity?

As for whether or not to include the Klingons in this half-manner, I dunno. Emmert is right and it is by know means something that he has miraculously shed light on in the fact of if you don't have it in at launch what makes you think I'm going to buy your game 6 months later when you've put it in then? Sure, some people may go for it, but others like myself will always see it as a compromise to get more box sales when it wasn't important enough in the overall vision of your game that it had to be included at launch.

There were a number of us kicking and screaming for Funcom to re-think their stance on having a robust combat system (when I say robust I qualify it with SWG or UO) in AoC. Some months after launch, and after most of us had quit the game, they announce that they are looking at modifying the system, presumably to have more depth. Think I'd go back to it now? Nope.

Some people will moan that "you're only cheating yourself blah blah...". Well, no, not really. I can live without MMOs thankfully. And after (uh-oh, here it comes again, "Don't look Ethel!!" but it was too late...) my experience with the whole SOE and NGE business, I know for a fact that what I want isn't honestly top priority on any of the companies list. That known, I also know that I don't owe ANY of them any amount of loyalty what-so-ever.

I don't "owe" them to try their game out 6 months to a year after launch when they are hurting for subscribers and finally decide to add in systems that I enjoy in hopes of snagging me up. No. If I and my gameplay weren't important enough to them to incorporate the things I like from the start, then I don't play their game. Ever. They made a business decision to not target me with the game, which is cool. In turn, they can't get upset if their decision doesn't bring them in the numbers they want, so they change the game (losing some subs) to target me but I decline their invitation.

The only thing I owe an MMO company is to have the correct credit card number attached to my account and to not overdraw said card so that they get paid once a month. Any loyalty that is garnered is done so from that company having all the gameplay mechanics/systems in game at launch (understanding they may need more tweaking) that I enjoy at a level of depth I enjoy and continuing to build on a fun an enjoyable experience for me using those mechanics/systems. Turbine had loyalty from me until they did what they did to DDO and then chose to release LOTRO and forgo doing anything ever again with Asheron's Call.

QFE

Though I've never played AC, I've thrown enough money at and played enough games that have 'potential' that they never meet to do it again. In this economy, money is tighter than before and if you aren't getting what you want out of a game NOW, then what are you paying for? I'd rather work and save up for the game I REALLY want that offers what I want to play, then pay some company to 'maybe sometime in the future if we have time and the resources' to get what I want.

I wanted to play Klingon. I don't mind PvP, but I DO mind having it as my MAIN avenue for character advancement, with my 'other' way being a much less developed and poorer quality PvE option. Though I do think it is neat to not have the Klingon side basically being the Federation side with a different face. STill.. Klingon culture and so on was one of the best developed alien races (both literally -IN- ST movies/shows and -OUT- of ST in LARPs, books and language development), and it is a shame that that will not be utilized in STO. 

Thanks Dana for staying on top of the thing we want to know the most about.

I've been burned on the promises of what will come from mmo devs to go that route anymore.  Unless the two sides play radically different, I don't see the benefit of playing klingon.  First of all you can custom create a klingon in a star fleet uniform, play all the quests and still get all the save pvp the klingons get. So why play a klingon at all? 

Let's not forget they haven't beta tested a single thing regarding klingon content, to me that just screams cut and paste skills.

Obviously I'll have to see what makes the two sides different but lets be real: they ran out of time how different will the sides be?  Doesnt the fact you can make a custom anything guarantee them to be the same generic shells of each other balance wise?

I just don't feel like they've taken the care this IP deserves, they've run out of time by their own admission, I just wish games could be more like wow blizzard or gta when the devs flat out say, "it done when it's done." 

Nevertheless I'll be anxiously waiting for every scrap of info.

Sounds good, I am watching STO with slightly more interest as it gets closer to launch.

My first choice of race would be Borg, points to the my color is White on bottom :P

My second choice would be Cardassian.

Looks like I would be stuck as Federation or Klingon for awhile but if the game is fun and they ever add Cardassians I would be quite happppppppppy!

This was an informative article.  I think by adding the Klingons they have added greater appeal to a wider audience.  Some people like to play the bad guys, and having that pvp component adds another dimension of excitement and depth that would otherwise not be present.

I wasn't planning on playing the Klingon side before this article, but after reading this piece I admit I am intrigued.

Well, I guess Player Crews are really out then...by if one goes by Emmerts philosophy anyway. So much for "we'll add it if there's demand"

I were really looking forward to playing klingons... <.< But now? Heck, if I want monsterplay I'll go LotRO..

Also, it seems that what little PvE there is it's very much in the background and far far from the primary way of progression for Klingons, so by chosing this route they bascily alienate the klingon PvE players.

Good job! Good bye! 

Originally posted by Dana

 The Klingon faction also has its own list of ships, which Cryptic outlined in its release today. There is no overlap, and the highlights are that Klingon birds can cloak, are a bit more maneuverable and tend to be more head on. 

Did the author of the article even read the ship list for the Klingon "faction?" There most definitely is a lot of overlap. Instead of the huge number of different ship classes offered to the Federation side, the Klingons get repurposed ships for ever single tier. If I'm flying a "Bird of Prey" at tier 1, why the heck would I want to fly a "Bird of Prey Mark 3" at tier three? The only unique ship Cryptic actually designed for the Klingons is the carrier. Boy, can't wait to have a "Battle Cruiser Mark 2!"

All I'm getting out of this interview is excuses and spin from "Hit the Road Jack" Emmert. They put Klingons in in an unfinished state because "...if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it.” Then why isn't the game being delayed so they can finish such a vital component that it has to be in at launch? Is it really helping them to stick to this insane two year development window? The more I see of this game, the less finished it looks.

"Two of the biggest complaints people had is that it launched without PvP and without crafting, yet when they added those two elements later on they saw only negligible subscription growth." Really? And this didn't have anything to do with an inept marketing team, Cryptic pairing resources to develop CoH to the bone, or bad design decisions?

I honestly can't believe that Emmert learned his lesson at all since they are rushing this game and essentially releasing it unfinished. Won't people play this game in it's unfinished state and then spread bad press? Won't people see reviews and hype and choose not to buy an unfinished game? Why has the standard excuse from Cryptic been "it won't be in at launch, but it will be in later free patches!" to so many of the things people are asking for in a Star Trek MMO? I thought they learned their lesson and "...if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it.”

“One of the lessons I’ve learned over the years is not to be too rigid as a designer, always try to keep a very open mind, because the players will tell you what they want."

Here's a little MMO history for those who are unaware. Back when Cryptic was still running City of Heroes, Emmert became reviled by that community because he constantly said "no, that will never be in the game, it doesn't fit my vision of the game." Even though the CoH community loves that game and loves their devs, they hated Jack because he was incredibly inflexible and refused to do what didn't fit his "vision" of that game. One example of this is the Flashback system. Players wanted a way to go back and complete missions and arcs their characters had out-levelled. Emmert absolutely refused to even consider such a system and it became a huge bone of contention between him and the CoH community. After Cryptic sold CoH to NCSoft, the very first thing they did was put in such an oft requested system. After that the community was glad and completely sold of the sale of CoH.

Has Jack really learned his lesson? Will he really listen to the community and not be so completely inflexible? Considering what Emmert has said in this article and all the huge contradictions he's made, I don't believe it for an instant.

"Players can choose between Klingon, Gorn, Orion, Lethean, Nausicaan" I have no complaints here. These are overall good races for the Klingon faction. Actually, I would go one further and say that Cryptic should add the Miradorns to the Klingon faction as well (memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miradorn.)

Overall, the only information I see coming out of Cryptic is that this game is rushed, this game won't be finished, this game will be a big PASS.

Originally posted by Scrogdog

I could not agree more!

I plan on playing a toon for both factions. Even though I don't normally enjoy PvP. This is different; it's an attitude thing. :)

Just like that scene from the movie when the Klingon Commander (Jim from Taxi :)) orders his men to board the Enterprise and his first reminds him that they are outnumbered.

WE ARE KLINGONS!!!!

I hope I get some actual Klingons to play with when I get there. Sheesh.

And for those who say that they don't want to PvP all the time, well neither do I!  Hence my Federation counterpart.

 

"Jim from Taxi?" I'm pretty sure that Klingon was Dr. Emmet Brown.

Originally posted by Xondar123

"Two of the biggest complaints people had is that it launched without PvP and without crafting, yet when they added those two elements later on they saw only negligible subscription growth." Really? And this didn't have anything to do with an inept marketing team, Cryptic pairing resources to develop CoH to the bone, or bad design decisions?

One could argue that these systems were not popular because they truly weren't desired. Some early COH fans were drawn to the game, in part, because it didn't have pvp or crafting. No loot. No economy soon to be twisted into an inflated abomination.  Crafting really has little to no place in the theme, anyway - while one might try to bring up characters like Iron Man and such... Iron Man is not about spending all day in his lab building a zillion repulsor gauntlets to skill up. :)

Of course, the combination of elements of not really being desired by the player majority and bad design are pretty much all the nails the coffin needs. PvPers are a minority (though they refuse to accept it).  A very vocal one, but a minority all the same (representation on forums seems to skew perceptions). The same can be said for dedicated crafters.

Originally posted by Xondar123

"Jim from Taxi?" I'm pretty sure that Klingon was Dr. Emmet Brown.

Don't be silly. It was John Bigboote