Originally posted by galliard1981

i have the opposite feeling. i would bet every each there are more and more mmo players.

you probably did not try many mmos and are making assumptions basing on wow exclusively. i never played wow but as mmo vet, i noticed that game had one of the worst communities since the beginning (reading forums and talking to friends who played)

finally, i cannot understand, why you cannot understand that pvp will always be more fun than pve, therefore cs headshot > mmo raid

Not true, a good example is when I play Gears of War 2, when I play Horde mode it's so nice because your fighting waves of Locust Horde with other people and it's so easy. Normal multiplayer on the other hand...I struggle, simply I can't kill everything like everybody else does and too often I'm the worst player in the team because that game is really all about surprises and I don't like it.

In an MMO, it can vary, there's MMO's which focus on pvp, others pvp is optional and there's those that don't have pvp, but simply, I hate pvp.

Originally posted by Lexiscat

Originally posted by toddze

Well to some mostly the pre wow mmo'ers, the mmorpg genre is already dead. Those people are the people who want living a virtual world, Want a strong community, and understand the value of teamwork. 

 

We are still out there, playing our games.

You get what you give.

This.

the MMO genre is probably what keeps PC gaming afloat, currently.  And no, I'm not seeing much of a decline, if any.  The games that have launched well still continue to do well, and those that failed at launch are still failing.  Any of us that knew anything about the games that launched this year will probably tell you that they went as predicted.  Aion and fallen earth are doing ok while not spectacular, and Champions is biting the dust.

It's tough to say for me, since I haven't played since '05, how well WoW is doing, but what goes up must come down, eventually.  but when WoW comes down in subs, there will be a vacuum.  Blizzard can fill it or someone else will.

If you go by pre-WoW standards the MMO genre has never been better.

There are tons of great games for every playstyle that are humming along just fine in the 200-500K sub range.

I do think the era of big-name, high-flying MMOs that need millions of subs to make any money is coming to a close.  WoW was an anomoly, a game that was in the exact right place at the right time with all the right things going for it.  You can't clone WoW - once you've played one theme park you've played them all.

The way for MMOs to win is to start small and grow up.  Every MMO that has been successful in the long-term has done this.  Even WoW (which never expected to be such a hit out of the gate, I know, I was there when all the servers where exploding on launch day).  Every MMO that has tried to start big has been a massive failure.  I don't see this trend going away either.

Originally posted by toddze

Well to some mostly the pre wow mmo'ers, the mmorpg genre is already dead. Those people are the people who want living a virtual world, Want a strong community, and understand the value of teamwork. 

You know, in MMO's, just like everyday life, some people are helpful, cooperative, and friendly, and some are not.  Like in everyday life, you have to seek them out.  And you have to expect that they probably aren't going to want to go on that 3 hour raid with you at first meeting.

It is in a slump, I'd agree to that but I wouldn't say it's dying..

It's a normal kind of thing in all popular media - you have golden ages followed by slumps. Usually the "golden ages" are triggered by some kind of revolutionary breakthrough which is more often than not based on a proper use of some new technology rather than raw creative "content".

Painting was in a slump until renaissance when they "suddenly discovered" perspective. Well actually the new research proves quite conclusively that it was the development of camera obscura and its proper use (clandestine of course, we don't want to pu divine inspiration in doubt, don't we) by the masters that created such outpuring of pent up genius and gave us Michelangelos, DaVincis etc.

For a more recent example just study the history of Hollywood and its golden ages.

My guess is that there is something brewing out there right now but we don't know what it is. If we knew it we'd be millionaires. We'll see. Imo the conceptual overhaul of MMO genre is long overdue because new and exciting technologies did appear since the last golden age but there is still no developer with vision and guts to capitalize on them... yet.

My best bet would be social networking, web 2.0 etc coming to a collusion with MMO worlds. There are mmos on facebook right now. They're crap ofc and badly designed but their popularity speaks for itself. That Xbox net platform is also moving in that direction. Spore tried to make the connection but failed due to closed and way too fiddly design philosophy. CCP is integrating MMO with online shooters into a single world... These are all baby steps but the trend is very very obvious to me.

yes, it's dying.

It's not dying, there is just too many games out and the crowds wore thin across them all.

Originally posted by ToteLeeLost

yes, it's dying.

What is that the monkey is holding?

Ebola.

Originally posted by GTwander

It's not dying, there is just too many games out and the crowds wore thin across them all.

Well is there a way to fill in the missing gaps to all these games?

Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

Originally posted by GTwander

It's not dying, there is just too many games out and the crowds wore thin across them all.

 

Well is there a way to fill in the missing gaps to all these games?

Yup, by shutting down half of em or introducing another couple million players across the board (not just to one game like *wink wink*).

A big part of this is that some games are built to hold less people and do fine. Love/Wurm are fine with under 100 people in a single server, they are just built that way. Other games are just dead feeling if there is under 1000 on at once. I think indie games that take small crowds and do their best with it will last far longer than big-time games that can't hang unless tons of people are on board.

Personally i dont think the genre is dying but is suffering from a glutton of bad games with little content, story, or feeling of a relationship with the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH wonders if the Minmataar, Amarrian, Caldarian, or Galentee ladies know how to dance since he can only see thier heads.)

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Personally i dont think the genre is dying but is suffering from a glutton of bad games with little content, story, or feeling of a relationship with the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH wonders if the Minmataar, Amarrian, Caldarian, or Galentee ladies know how to dance since he can only see thier heads.)

Yes, I do think this MMO push is very similar to how Atari broke the market back in the day, and soon the whole lineup will face the obvious issues of competition and scattered audiences.

As for EVE, I'm coming back for ambulation... because the aesthetic of a *body* is fairly important to me. Was never digging being a ship all the time.

This is just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

The MMO Genre itself is doing very very well.  The marketing of  WoW  has turned MMO and WoW itself into an almost household word. What seems to suffer is the community and what the drive is for people to play.

My 1st MMO was DAoC, I was a noob to online gaming in general and a big time noob in MMO's.  I started playing it the week of release as a suggestion from a buddy of mine. Loved the game and played it for 3 years straight.  People in that game were not driven by loot or greed it seems. Community was the main focus, getting a group of people out there and doing RvR, or Raids, or group open dungeon crawls. Very rarely saw people argue or fight over a drop.

There were some elitist asshats to be sure, but overall I made more friends and had a better sense of community than in any MMO i have played since.

Just as an example. My last day of WoW was this.

Dual spec had just come out that week. I was spec holy for raiding and had been rolling off spec and saving badges for my shadow set . I put on my shadow set which was all epic pieces, joined a Sarth PuG 10 man doing with 1 drake up. We smoked the place, not even 1 death.  The leader kept ragging on everyone who was not doing what he thought was enuff dps, " shadow priest you suck" , " druid L2P", ect ect.

All people cared about was that little meter running in the corner of the screen with numbers on it for dps and heals. Never mind that we just cleared it with no deaths.

After this and the bitching going on in guild the night before over loot I exited, logged off, cancel sub and never looked back.

Community has what has taken a hit with the newer MMO's, either that or I am just getting too old for the genre lol =)

Just my 2cp

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

• The genre is going through a lull as many of the most recent releases have sought to emulate the WoW formula rather than innovate. There is now an awful lot of rubbish on the market, which still absorb gaming hours.

• Much of the lull is a matter of perception - not even counting WoW, I think far more people are playing MMOs than ever although the playerbase of the genre is more distributed due to the number of games on the market.

• From a mainstream perspective, certain AAA games like AoC and Warhammer were probably only ever likely to win over a niche market due to the nature of the IP. In this respect I think these games have actually done well (although their investors may disagree), given that comparing them to WoW is like comparing Terminator to Bambi.

• There are established reasons for WoW success and when it eventually becomes too dated, I feel it will be replaced by another MMO - the genre won't die.

• A percentage of the MMO fanbase will need to accept a more flexible definition of the term MMO as the genre will and is evolving. The traditional 'button bar' style gaming from days of old will eventually be replaced by more engaging interfaces and many new and unreleased games are looking to employ a 3rd Person Shooter-style UI. In addition, I think the format of the content will need to become increasingly bite-sized to avoid alienating players with limited time. I don't think this will see a 'goodbye' to epic gaming, but it will say 'hello' to more manageable and inclusive gaming.

Aryas

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Personally i dont think the genre is dying but is suffering from a glutton of bad games with little content, story, or feeling of a relationship with the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH wonders if the Minmataar, Amarrian, Caldarian, or Galentee ladies know how to dance since he can only see thier heads.)

LOL, Rabbids are insane. XD

I really don't see this genre dying. It's, simply, evolving. Before I touch on the evolution, I need to point out a couple of things. First of all, there are more MMO's today then there ever was. Just look at the list on this website and you'll see. Howbeit, quantity and quality are entirely different things.

Secondly, the MMO industry has been making some terrible mistakes, resulting in a lot of failed titles. If you browse this site, you'll find articles as to what these mistakes are. One I will point out is that many of these companies are using beta-testing as a marketing tool to get sales. This is a bad thing beacause beta-testing is a very important step in the MMO creation process and by giving away keys for the sake of a game sale reduces the effectiveness of what the testing is all about. Budget planning is another problematic area. Many companies are not budgeting properly, forcing them to run out of capital early in the development phase. This forces them to rush out an unpolished game. I think we all know what can happen to a games reputation in such a case. Once a game has been branded poorly; it's hard to win back it's reputation.

This genre is evolving. AoC and Champions Online are two examples. The upcoming Secret World is another. We are slowly seeing MMO's evolving into more of an action style gameplay (active blocking, striking, etc.) I have also noticed a slight slip in community along with some of these games. It's not because of a lack of players either. There are plenty of players around in what games I currently play. Grouping and socializing still exists but there seems to be less of it. Regardless of the changes, this genre is still  very much alive.

I, personally, think (and predict) that the medium of this genre will change as well. With a new generation of consoles on the horizon, I think we'll see a lot of these games headed the console way. Given the increase in power, every generation and the fact that the console market is much bigger than the PC market, these companies will look to consoles to develop future titles (along with the PC).

With the heavy RPG meshing FPS games and vice versa , they seem to be soldering the two genres together. I would argue that the genre is about to blast off.

Originally posted by altairzq

If you consider a community of players that help each other and interact a key factor in any MMORPG, then the genre is not dying, it is already dead. Otherwise, the genre is in very good health.

I used to think that also. Then I made some new friends. They are harder to find nowadays, I agree. But it's not impossible.