Originally posted by page

Originally posted by morpin

EVERYONE... absolutley everyoine uses Infomap.  Its a great map system....geesh

http://www.vginterface.com/downloads/info96-InfoMapAdvanced.html

 

This is to be SOE's responsibility. I know what your thinking " you can download maps for WoW ". But the difference is that they already have good maps. Blizzard fixes their problem areas.  SOE plays the same crap with EQ2.

And absolutely any new player trying to decide on extending their subs, are not gonna do it !

I wish mmo vets would open their mind, and think beyond them selfs.

I extended my sub and i know plenty of other new players that has done the same :)

Originally posted by almalexius

What are you talking about? The map isn't game breaking at all. You are such a whiner if you refuse to download an addon.

Wow is a game for dumbasses who need everything handed to them. Just go explore a lot. I played for a few weeks on Thestra and know my way around already.

 

Did you even read any of my subsequent posts?

Hey Fibsdk.

I came here to see some interesting Vanguard discussion, but instead found people whining about things that our guild actually love, such as exploring to find stuff instead of having a map tell us everything, and the wide open realistic world, instead of a world arranged to be convenient for the players.

Originally posted by nate1980

Hey Fibsdk.

I came here to see some interesting Vanguard discussion, but instead found people whining about things that our guild actually love, such as exploring to find stuff instead of having a map tell us everything, and the wide open realistic world, instead of a world arranged to be convenient for the players.

We are discussing Vanguard, particularly the maps. If you don't want to discuss the maps, go elsewhere. You're worse than a whiner if you play into their whining by claiming to like the things they find annoying.

I hear the wow forums are fun to troll. You might find more excitement there.

Originally posted by nine56

Originally posted by nate1980

Hey Fibsdk.

I came here to see some interesting Vanguard discussion, but instead found people whining about things that our guild actually love, such as exploring to find stuff instead of having a map tell us everything, and the wide open realistic world, instead of a world arranged to be convenient for the players.

 

We are discussing Vanguard, particularly the maps. If you don't want to discuss the maps, go elsewhere. You're worse than a whiner if you play into their whining by claiming to like the things they find annoying.

 

I hear the wow forums are fun to troll. You might find more excitement there.

Gotta love the wannabe mods that think they can tell people where to go to post. What an emo response to something you don't like hearing. Sad existences really.

Haters gotta hate that's what they do and they do it well.  If you enjoy something others dislike you are a troll. Obvious misuse of the word here but whatever.

Fact is our newly created guild with all new players are now 35+ strong and counting since more and more want to join every day. People are very positivly surprised and happy with the pick over EQ2. If somebody want to hate Vanguard over something as stupid as a map then you really have to wonder what drives these people. Oh well none of my concern

Let the haters hate is what i say.

Originally posted by nine56

Originally posted by nate1980

Hey Fibsdk.

I came here to see some interesting Vanguard discussion, but instead found people whining about things that our guild actually love, such as exploring to find stuff instead of having a map tell us everything, and the wide open realistic world, instead of a world arranged to be convenient for the players.

 

We are discussing Vanguard, particularly the maps. If you don't want to discuss the maps, go elsewhere. You're worse than a whiner if you play into their whining by claiming to like the things they find annoying.

 

I hear the wow forums are fun to troll. You might find more excitement there.

You're not discussing maps, you're whining about maps. The title of the thread also wasn't "Maps is holding Vanguard back," its "What holds this game back..."

I'm all for legitimate criticism and Vanguard deserves plenty of it, but maps? Your complaint is that the maps doesn't lead you by the nose, so you don't have to think. Speaking of WoW, why don't you go back to it? It seems as though that game is up to your standard. It tells you what to do, when to do it, and where it is, so you never have to use the grey matter between your ears.

The game is buggy, has performance problems, a lack of population, and little developer support from SOE. Those are things holding Vanguard back, not maps that dumb the game down for the retards that play MMORPGs.

Before you reply back with something you think is witty, use your head and think about what you're saying. You're upset because a game doesn't offer a map system that tells you where everything is, versus using the one you have and exploring. You want it to tell you where NPC's and quest objectives are, like that's a realistic thing to have. The map is a guide to HELP you find your way, not completely do all the work for you. The fact is that you and others like you don't like to explore. You lost your sense of adventure and want to have your hand held. You want NPC"s to tell you exactly where everything is, mark it on the map, and even light the path for you. I consider this taking the adventure out of the game, and dumbing it down. This allows for you to go into "quest-mode," which is where you collect all the quests in the area without reading them, and then follow the objectives on the map. No thinking or effort involved.

There's plenty of games like that, and complaining that one game out of the many doesn't dumb crap down is idiotic to me. But go ahead and reply with crap like, "It's not about dumbing the game down, it's about making the game [user-friendly]." Then ask yourself what the difference between user-friendly and dumbing a game down is.

Crap launch is what held this game back and will always hold it back.

Originally posted by inBOIL

I tried this once ,I rolled char and did few quests and went to exploring rage ,and hey ho letsgo and my adventuring ended to invisible wall and thats it delete bye bye vanguard ,hi hi something else

You are F retarded Bye bye.

Vanguard is the best game out and will be the best game out for awhile weather people like it or not they are to busy jumping from one mmorpg to another troll all the way. Vanguard is what an mmorpg should be but its alittle harder to figure out  so maybe if they dumbed it down and added some get over launch buttons maybe then people can see how amazing the game is.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by nine56

Originally posted by nate1980

Hey Fibsdk.

I came here to see some interesting Vanguard discussion, but instead found people whining about things that our guild actually love, such as exploring to find stuff instead of having a map tell us everything, and the wide open realistic world, instead of a world arranged to be convenient for the players.

 

We are discussing Vanguard, particularly the maps. If you don't want to discuss the maps, go elsewhere. You're worse than a whiner if you play into their whining by claiming to like the things they find annoying.

 

I hear the wow forums are fun to troll. You might find more excitement there.

 

You're not discussing maps, you're whining about maps. The title of the thread also wasn't "Maps is holding Vanguard back," its "What holds this game back..."

I'm all for legitimate criticism and Vanguard deserves plenty of it, but maps? Your complaint is that the maps doesn't lead you by the nose, so you don't have to think. Speaking of WoW, why don't you go back to it? It seems as though that game is up to your standard. It tells you what to do, when to do it, and where it is, so you never have to use the grey matter between your ears.

The game is buggy, has performance problems, a lack of population, and little developer support from SOE. Those are things holding Vanguard back, not maps that dumb the game down for the retards that play MMORPGs.

Before you reply back with something you think is witty, use your head and think about what you're saying. You're upset because a game doesn't offer a map system that tells you where everything is, versus using the one you have and exploring. You want it to tell you where NPC's and quest objectives are, like that's a realistic thing to have. The map is a guide to HELP you find your way, not completely do all the work for you. The fact is that you and others like you don't like to explore. You lost your sense of adventure and want to have your hand held. You want NPC"s to tell you exactly where everything is, mark it on the map, and even light the path for you. I consider this taking the adventure out of the game, and dumbing it down. This allows for you to go into "quest-mode," which is where you collect all the quests in the area without reading them, and then follow the objectives on the map. No thinking or effort involved.

There's plenty of games like that, and complaining that one game out of the many doesn't dumb crap down is idiotic to me. But go ahead and reply with crap like, "It's not about dumbing the game down, it's about making the game [user-friendly]." Then ask yourself what the difference between user-friendly and dumbing a game down is.

First of all, there is no WoW for me to go back to, since I am not from that game by any means. I've mostly been an EQ2 player, but I've played just about all of them.

I'm not asking for any kind of hand-holding. I'm all for Vanguard's more adventure-like playstyle where you need to find your way around. However, when it comes to simple things such as finding a certain vendor, I don't believe I should have to wander around a given city for 25 minutes or wait till someone responds to my question on the public channel to know where the god damned necromancer trainer is. It's true that most cities have a guard to show me the way, but some cities' guards are even hard to find. Also, why the guards in Veskal's Exchange do not give directions is beyond me.

I don't think the game as a whole needs to be "dumbed down," but I think at least when a player is dropped off in the middle of their first real city, they should be given some kind of direction or hint as to what they should do first. After wandering around Veskal's for 25 minutes looking for the stupid trainer (I know I'm an idiot, but some NPCs should be easier to find), I found out from someone in my guild that I should go to some cave for a good questing/leveling experience and that I should find the quest NPCs close by. I searched for 2 hours for these NPCs. I could not find them. I still haven't found them. I should not have to wander around aimlessly in order to find a couple of quest NPCs. A little "!" or some sort of icon on the map would solve this problem and save me hours of pointless walking around. I want to explore, honestly! I just don't want to explore the whole damned continent in search for one random NPC whose name I know but whose location is so vague on the quest description that I could literally go anywhere and really not know if I was close.

To me, this level of "hardcore-ness," if you want to call it that, is unnecessary. There's a fine line between not being carebear and being overly ambiguous and open-ended. I believe Vanguard to be the latter.

Originally posted by birken

Vanguard is the best game out and will be the best game out for awhile weather people like it or not they are to busy jumping from one mmorpg to another troll all the way. Vanguard is what an mmorpg should be but its alittle harder to figure out  so maybe if they dumbed it down and added some get over launch buttons maybe then people can see how amazing the game is.

Dont be silly.

Originally posted by ozy1

Crap launch is what held this game back and will always hold it back.

Overall, I believe this to be more true than anything else.

Originally posted by ozy1

Originally posted by birken

Vanguard is the best game out and will be the best game out for awhile weather people like it or not they are to busy jumping from one mmorpg to another troll all the way. Vanguard is what an mmorpg should be but its alittle harder to figure out  so maybe if they dumbed it down and added some get over launch buttons maybe then people can see how amazing the game is.

 

Dont be silly.

So tell me what game is it that u think is better in any way?

Originally posted by Heltern

Originally posted by almalexius

What are you talking about? The map isn't game breaking at all. You are such a whiner if you refuse to download an addon.

Wow is a game for dumbasses who need everything handed to them. Just go explore a lot. I played for a few weeks on Thestra and know my way around already.

 

 

 EQ1 was BAD, very bad. It had 0.55% at peak players of WoWs population with NO competition.  

You HAVE to be a troll. 
 

Competition was MUCH stiffer in the days before WoW. 

You had DAoC, EQ, SWG, AC1, and UO, all around the same sub numbers, with DAoC and EQ at the top. EQ is the game that invented the modern MMO, and WoW would not exist without it, because WoW is just a kiddie version of EQ. Learn your history kid before you try to shout out your elders. 

As for this thread. The ONLY thing holding back Vanguard is SoE.

you should learn your history...at the early times it was only UO, EQ and AC...SWG and DAoC came out a few years later.

Originally posted by Heltern

Originally posted by almalexius

What are you talking about? The map isn't game breaking at all. You are such a whiner if you refuse to download an addon.

Wow is a game for dumbasses who need everything handed to them. Just go explore a lot. I played for a few weeks on Thestra and know my way around already.

 

 

Vanguard is the game for dumb people. Really now, with 0.04% of the population of WoW, who is playing? Is it fun playing a "forced" grouping class with no one to group with? While you touted all those classes Vanguard has I gringed. Here we go again, three tank classes fighting for ONE group spot. My favorite class again gimped, Warrior, not allowed to solo and no groups?! What were the retarded Devs thinking? EQ1 was BAD, very bad. It had 0.55% at peak players of WoWs population with NO competition.  Then SOE bought the game, a big hint it was going no where. Half the people disappeared with that announcement because of SOE's piss poor rep. Then the launch! This game is in the trash heap and one of the biggest flops ever.

Now path 3.3 brings GAME WIDE grouping, with a bunch of ways to be grouped inside of 5 minutes! Those moron tools at SOE could have done that much easier, but Blizzard beats them to the punch yet again. Vanguard might be more fun if they did the same thing but for quest lines, I need a group for quest "A" and I am searching GAME wide to do it! Everyone with the quest active could receive notification and an instance to play. It won't happen, SOE won't bother with 40k people playing.

It has nothing to do with the complexity of the games...it has to do with basic economics.  WoW went after asia from the get-go, via physical distribution and art style.  EQ took years to release there.  Countries like China have been booming the last decade and are spending more than they ever had previously.  Again, i don't see how a game quality can be based on numbers. 

Going back to vanguard...3rd party maps have been widely available since launch.  It is a non-issue, anyways, as the maps aren't that bad.  It is a solid game, but lacks and population and made no strong attempt to re-release/advertise in any form.

Originally posted by Horusra

you should learn your history...at the early times it was only UO, EQ and AC...SWG and DAoC came out a few years later.

EQ launched 1999, followed by AC late 1999, followed by DAoC early 2001. Check your facts. All were in beta around the same exact time. And SWG was still spiritually like the original MMOs because it was innovative and original. There were probably more MMOs pre 2005 than there are post 2005. 
 

Originally posted by nine56

Originally posted by ozy1

Crap launch is what held this game back and will always hold it back.

 

Overall, I believe this to be more true than anything else.

Good games recover from bad launches, if the companies try. SOE doesn't advertise Vanguard, doesn't update Vanguard, doesn't give any development team to Vanguard, doesn't do any expansions for Vanguard.
 

A failed launch (only get one chance to make a first impression) and SOE hate will keep this game down forever.

SOE didn't take over this game to save it anyway, they just wanted to keep it from competing with EQ and EQ2.

Ironically, it's SoE that's holding Vanguard back. After all, they bought the game just so it wouldn't be a direct competitor to Everquest 2 and it seems that practice from those early days has continued... basically, SoE continues to keep Vanguard on life-support.