Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Daffid011

Vanguard wasn't the only game that soe had to give a press release that they were hands off on development.  The day pirates of the burning sea announced it was partnering with soe, they had to put up a giant FAQ and seperate discussion forum in an attempt to calm down player fears that soe was going to have anything to do with the games development. 

The same thing happened when gods and heroes partnered with soe. 

 

Every time soe partners with someone, both companies have to immediately go into damage control, which speaks volumes about the reputation soe has. 

 

 

 

I remember it was also a part of the Vanguard FAQ's. I wish I took a screenshot of it at the time because I thought it was funny as hell that it needed to be addressed in this way.

Which is why I ultimately find it astounding that there are no Classic Servers. Yes, it's true, there is a cost involved in the technical aspects of running an MMO. And it's true that they might not get that money back in subscription revenue from the Classic Servers (although it's doubtful they would not be profitable). But it blows my mind that they can't see that implementing a Classic Server would actually pay back ten fold in other games in the future. They think they've only alienated 200k people via the NGE, but the number is probably pretty staggering when you think about how many people those 200k  have told about SOE's evils. I alone have probably steered over 15 people (in person) away from SOE products.

An apology, and a Classic Server would make me rethink my stance.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Daffid011

Vanguard wasn't the only game that soe had to give a press release that they were hands off on development.  The day pirates of the burning sea announced it was partnering with soe, they had to put up a giant FAQ and seperate discussion forum in an attempt to calm down player fears that soe was going to have anything to do with the games development. 

The same thing happened when gods and heroes partnered with soe. 

 

Every time soe partners with someone, both companies have to immediately go into damage control, which speaks volumes about the reputation soe has. 

 

 

 

I remember it was also a part of the Vanguard FAQ's. I wish I took a screenshot of it at the time because I thought it was funny as hell that it needed to be addressed in this way.

 

Which is why I ultimately find it astounding that there are no Classic Servers. Yes, it's true, there is a cost involved in the technical aspects of running an MMO. And it's true that they might not get that money back in subscription revenue from the Classic Servers (although it's doubtful they would not be profitable). But it blows my mind that they can't see that implementing a Classic Server would actually pay back ten fold in other games in the future. They think they've only alienated 200k people via the NGE, but the number is probably pretty staggering when you think about how many people those 200k  have told about SOE's evils. I alone have probably steered over 15 people (in person) away from SOE products.

An apology, and a Classic Server would make me rethink my stance.

The thing is, with Vanguard it was pissed off former EQ players.  SOE has tried to make nice with those folks by offering them something closer to what they want than what the current version of EQ is, with the progression servers.  They also tease offering classic vanilla EQ servers, but they have yet to go through with that.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Vanguard wasn't the only game that soe had to give a press release that they were hands off on development.  The day pirates of the burning sea announced it was partnering with soe, they had to put up a giant FAQ and seperate discussion forum in an attempt to calm down player fears that soe was going to have anything to do with the games development. 

The same thing happened when gods and heroes partnered with soe. 

 

Every time soe partners with someone, both companies have to immediately go into damage control, which speaks volumes about the reputation soe has. 

 

 

With PotBS, it was the folks at Flying Labs that pushed SOE's non involvement, not the Smed.  It was also the head of Flying Labs that kept claiming SOE had changed and we should buy his game to reward SOE for being good and wonderful now.  The only thing he could point to as an example of SOE changing into a good and wonderful company is that they were publishing his game.

The Vanguard announcement had the Smed himself touted the fact that his company would have nothing to do with the game's development as a selling point on the pre-beta Sigil boards.  The Smed later promised to not make any major changes to the core mechanics of Vanguard, since he had learned his lesson with the failure of the NGE.  He outright lied both times, as SOE employees were working on Vanguard prior to release, and Vanguard has been changed to be much closer to WoW in gameplay.  I still find it funny that the Smed claimed the reason SOE was interested in buying Vanguard was because SOE lacked a 'hardcore' game in their lineup, and almost instantly after buying Vanguard they set about making it more like WoW (faster level progression, making sure the player knows where to go next, etc.).

I haven't found a replacement yet that appeals to me in the ways SWG did the first year that I played it.  At this point, I'd go back to paying for both of my Pre-CU accounts regardless of whether it was SOE that put up classic servers or if it takes a flightless bird to do the job.  Winner gets my $30/month bounty (and I'm ppretty sure it will be going to the right place).

Badger, did you ever bring this up with anyone at SOE?  If you did, did you get any kind of response negative or positive?

I simply can't understand why they will not put up a server or two with classic pre-cu, it will fill a niche so needed in the market.  I realistically see it having a loyal fan base of 25k-50k players.  That's not very impressive true but it's $400k - $750k a month for something that is already there with minimal support needed.

Anyways, give us some feedback if you have any, even if it's negative.

I'd play any classic version.  My favorite period was the post-CU where battle fatigue, dancer and doctor buffs were still present, not exactly sure if that was still present after patch 9 or not.

Remove Jedi from the game, and I'll never have a need to look for anything else MMO-wise.  I know that's the supremely "iconic" class, but the alpha class nature caused a lot of unbalancing.  I wouldn't even care if I had to start from scratch again.

For this to be a success though, I'm pretty sure you'd have to keep SoE, or the SoE name as far away from it as possible...just too much bad blood there, and "once bitten, twice shy" as they say.

If the developers still have access to the old code, why not re-vamp it and put it out as a new game?  The foundation for a great game is there already.  Change some names around, update the graphics, fix some of the early bugs and push it out.  It won't be "Star Wars" but it would be one hell of a Sci-Fi MMO.  They would even have enough latitude to actually implement a faction-based PvP (aka. Galactic civil war) in a meaningful way without running afoul of lore constraints.

i liked mind wounds, battle fatigue and so on.

I didn't like the GCW revamp - Bria became swamped with bases.  Noone could be bothered destroying the non-PVP bases so people stopped caring about the PVP ones too - defending/attacking PVP bases was a ritual until then.  It was also ridiculous that you couldn't intervene as an overt against some non-PVPer killing your NPCs.  If they didn't want to risk being killed they should have done it in the middle of nowhere, not in the middle of Theed.   

I didn't like levels

I've no idea what patch number would be best given the above, but I'd be happy to play anything upto NGE anyway.

Originally posted by Mazin

Badger, did you ever bring this up with anyone at SOE?  If you did, did you get any kind of response negative or positive?

I simply can't understand why they will not put up a server or two with classic pre-cu, it will fill a niche so needed in the market.  I realistically see it having a loyal fan base of 25k-50k players.  That's not very impressive true but it's $400k - $750k a month for something that is already there with minimal support needed.

Anyways, give us some feedback if you have any, even if it's negative.

 

 

Love to know also if theres been anymore said about this. Is there still a dev interested in doing this or has the idea totally been blown off. Any news is better then none.

Even if they brought back Pre-CU today, the player base would not be there like it was. People are bitter from the SOE betrayal and won't trust them again. The community is what made Pre-CU great.

Originally posted by jadonc

Even if they brought back Pre-CU today, the player base would not be there like it was. People are bitter from the SOE betrayal and won't trust them again. The community is what made Pre-CU great.

I don't disagree with you, it would never see roughly 300k players again.  But 25k - 50k is very probable just because there isn't a game out there right now that feels the niche that pre-cu does.

Originally posted by Mazin

Originally posted by jadonc

Even if they brought back Pre-CU today, the player base would not be there like it was. People are bitter from the SOE betrayal and won't trust them again. The community is what made Pre-CU great.

I don't disagree with you, it would never see roughly 300k players again.  But 25k - 50k is very probable just because there isn't a game out there right now that feels the niche that pre-cu does.

 

As far as concurrent players, I think you guys are definitely right. But I would venture a guess that with that amount of controversy the NGE has amassed, the opening numbers for a Pre-CU server(s) would actually be quite staggering for a short burst of time. Enough to recoup any costs involved in getting them up and running... and then some.

[Mod Edit]

Very well said. $OE itself is a major reason why many  potential and veteran players will not invest in any of its games. It is apparent that those at $OE (which includes Smedley and his toadies) have failed to learn lessons form past business blunders and poor customer service. Most of all, $OE hasn't learned how important a a good reputation is, let alone how  to earn it and keep it.

Originally posted by Kazara

[Mod Edit]

 

Very well said. $OE itself is a major reason why many  potential and veteran players will not invest in any of its games. It is apparent that those at $OE (which includes Smedley and his toadies) have failed to learn lessons form past business blunders and poor customer service. Most of all, $OE hasn't learned how important a a good reputation is, let alone how  to earn it and keep it.

after all the controversy you could probably hit 100k subs initially just from curious people. however sooner or later they would have to deal with SOE...and SOE would have to deal with them.

Originally posted by sage69

Originally posted by Kazara

[Mod Edit]

 

Very well said. $OE itself is a major reason why many  potential and veteran players will not invest in any of its games. It is apparent that those at $OE (which includes Smedley and his toadies) have failed to learn lessons form past business blunders and poor customer service. Most of all, $OE hasn't learned how important a a good reputation is, let alone how  to earn it and keep it.

 

after all the controversy you could probably hit 100k subs initially just from curious people. however sooner or later they would have to deal with SOE...and SOE would have to deal with them.

Perhaps SoE can hit 100k on 'walk-ins' but it is very unlikely that they will succeed in pulling in anyone who has had past dealings with them on any level. I believe that their thought process would be similar to mine, i.e. whoa, they're doing classic servers ? Cool !; wait...it's soe and smedley ; do I Really want to go through all that crap again ? automated customer service responses (that serves absolutely no purpose), no feedback on reports, straight out bull crap, totally ignoring the customer base, dubious GMs, broken quests/skills with no fix in sight or even a response on possible fixes, or worse - fixes without any prior update to let you know, account issues, etcetcetc - bleh ! nm I'll just go watch the kettle boil instead.

Hence, my extreme disappointment over DCUO being done by soe. Really wanted to play a good superhero game too.

If I said it once I said it a thousand times I would play preNGE but only if SOE does not own the game, also, the engine is definitly dated now, SWG Version 2 would be in order, another thing Sony and SOE would in no way have any connection to it -- I do not buy any of there products since NGE, I know many many peeps that would love to play a Star Wars game and that many of us are waiting for is the Bioware SWTOR because none of us trust SOE or sony at any level. WE WERE PLAYING THE DREAM of STAR WARS and they took it all away... evil evil evil... Face it when SWTOR comes out and you ask what about the SWG game and the response will be... "What is SWG?" Let the game die an honorable death for it has suffered enough!

Originally posted by Azareal

Originally posted by sage69

Originally posted by Kazara

 

after all the controversy you could probably hit 100k subs initially just from curious people. however sooner or later they would have to deal with SOE...and SOE would have to deal with them.

Perhaps SoE can hit 100k on 'walk-ins' but it is very unlikely that they will succeed in pulling in anyone who has had past dealings with them on any level.

SOE typically can't see past the 'walk-in' phase with their games as it stands.

I made an account just to post in this thread.

I tolerated the NGE for quite a while, finally giving up in disgust and canceling my subscriptions (2) about a year and a half ago.  Even before the NGE hit, I had lost most if not all of my faith in SOE in terms of them being able to take the game in the right direction.  But the friends, guildmates, and community at large made it worth dealing with SOE's missteps.

The transition from pre-CU to CU was handled poorly -- nowhere near as badly as the NGE, but still quite bad.  That being said, I liked about 90% of the changes and content that came with the CU.  The big caveat was introducing Combat Levels.  Had that been left out of the CU, I would have been 100% satisfied with the changes.  I have a whole lot of good memories from both pre-CU and CU eras, but probably the most fun that I had with the mechanics of the game came during the CU.

When the NGE came, I was more disgruntled than I had been with the CU, but I was 50% resigned to accepting that SOE would do what they had planned whether we liked it or not, and 50% honestly hopeful that it might pan out in the long term as I felt the CU did.  It took a long time for me to accept that the direction the game was going was just taking it further and further away from what I had enjoyed playing and what I wanted to keep playing.

At this point, I don't regret that I stuck around past the NGE and tried to get some enjoyment out of it.  I regret that those like myself who did not cancel subscriptions immediately after the NGE were probably considered by SOE to be proof that they were on the right track.  But I did get at least a little bit of fun out of it, and I maintained ties with a community of friends (that was perpetually shrinking) for a little bit longer than I would have.

I have often wondered about SOE bringing back some "classic" servers.  After the free character transfers away from some of the dead ones I thought that it would be pretty easy to close some of those in NGE terms, and roll out the classics onto them.  Even now, years later, I would jump at the chance to play pre-CU or CU mechanics again.  Some of the comments here suggest that they wouldn't trust SOE not to just run them into the ground again.  Well, neither do I, but there are two things that mitigate that for me:

1)  I think I would have enough fun that I would consider it worth $15 a month to play pre-CU or CU, even if I thought that the servers might be taken down the next month.  A situation that seemed long-term stable would be better, but I would accept the opportunity to play even without that.

2) SOE does *not* want to divide development effort into multiple lines.  I imagine that in the very unlikely event that they decided to roll out classic servers, they would do so only with the disclaimer that they are "dead ends" in terms of development / content / bugfixes / etc.  And frankly, I would find that infinitely more comforting than SOE saying "we're sorry, we realize that we really screwed up with the NGE, so we're going to bring back classic servers and continue to develop them forward", which would inevitably result in them f***ing stuff up again.  SOE's apathy and desire to see subscribers only as sources of $$$ would work in our favor for once.

So, to answer the OP's question: yes, I'd play again.  I'd even pay $15 a month to play.  As a primarily PvE player, my answer remains consistent for each of the three choices: pre-publish 9, immediately pre-CU, or CU immediately pre-NGE.  I would accept and enjoy any/all of them.  If they made 1 classic server for each of those situations, or if I had to vote about which one of the three I would be most interested in, I'd personally go for immediately pre-NGE.

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Originally posted by BadgerSmaker
Disclaimer: I do not work for SoE, nor have I ever, nor will I ever.  I once was part of a player volunteer program that SoE ran but that was about it, I have no say in what SoE does.
With that out of the way, I thought it would be interesting to discuss how SoE could go about Origin/Classic SWG Servers, if they ever had the time, resources and inclination to bring them up.
I discussed this with SWG Developers long ago and they seemed keen on the idea, but the live game always takes presedence so this was always a pipe-dream.
It's fun to talk about dreams though, so what would you like to see in the way of Origin/Classic SWG Servers?  They would likely be brought up as part of the Test Center servers and receive only maintenance updates, no additional content.
Which patch level would you want to play, if at all?
Patch Level
Pre-CU: Pre-publish 9
Pre-CU: (Literally just before the Combat Upgrade)
CU: Just before the NGE.

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I do not work for SOE , but you knew that! I choose Literally just before the Combat Upgrade. It was when I first confronted SOE in person at Celebrations 3 and I first meet Tiggs ( still a much better person then her former company).

It would be the restoration of my gameplay and more $$$$ importantly my business with SOE.