Originally posted by 133794m3r

Runescape is known as the largest f2p game. Taht's not a sign of quality. They themselves say they made it for people who have no idea what an mmo is. They never say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. They never say they have the greatest game on their hands. They just say they have a ton of players. The truth is, the game's very simplistic and is just a grind fest game with quite a few quests developed since the game first came out. Also since free accounts are never deleted. They can just keep piling up the numbers over all of that time.

Name one non AAA studio that truly has an amazing quality game. I played runescape way back when, i thought it'd try it out. It was a decent game. I played a couple months of member status. B/c i was looking for something to play. It's not all that interesting and surely doesn't feature the worlds greatest gameplay nor the best PvP.  And for PvE you have grinding.\

Edit:Nexon is a AAA company in terms of net worth. In terms of quality no where near.

Perhaps you also missed the point that RS recorded more than 1 million p2p subscribers. That's easily many times the subs of some of its counterpart published  by those AAAs.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by 133794m3r

funcom's publishing a franchise game "AoC" they have to have some serious money. They also have to be getting paid some serious money for making that game. Funcom's not indie b/c they've got enough money to not be. Look at them they're publishing a franchise game. Franchise=$$$$

 

Didn't I give you an example of Jagex already? They also blew 10s of millions pounds in making a mmorpg. That's likely to be most than the cost of AoC. BTW AoC is not necessarily very profitable comparing to many in its peer list.

Until F2p games equal the quality of p2p games noone will consider any of them AAA even if they make more profit than blizzard.

 

LOL. Some of these non AAA games have higher quality than the AAA ones. For instance, Jagex's success is recognized by the real world. They got real world reward by a REAL agency by the name of Guiness, and also voted by REAL people to receive a goldenjoystick reward.

Many of the AAA games are not recognized anywhere in the REAL world by REAL people by showing REAL statistices.

The ones like WAR only received I-PAID-FOR-A-LOT-OF-ADS-REWARD and such.

How does that even matter? 99% of all f2p games suck ass. Honestly if you think Jagex games are even close to p2p quality your blind.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by 133794m3r

funcom's publishing a franchise game "AoC" they have to have some serious money. They also have to be getting paid some serious money for making that game. Funcom's not indie b/c they've got enough money to not be. Look at them they're publishing a franchise game. Franchise=$$$$

 

Didn't I give you an example of Jagex already? They also blew 10s of millions pounds in making a mmorpg. That's likely to be most than the cost of AoC. BTW AoC is not necessarily very profitable comparing to many in its peer list.

Until F2p games equal the quality of p2p games noone will consider any of them AAA even if they make more profit than blizzard.

 

LOL. Some of these non AAA games have higher quality than the AAA ones. For instance, Jagex's success is recognized by the real world. They got real world reward by a REAL agency by the name of Guiness, and also voted by REAL people to receive a goldenjoystick reward.

Many of the AAA games are not recognized anywhere in the REAL world by REAL people by showing REAL statistices.

The ones like WAR only received I-PAID-FOR-A-LOT-OF-ADS-REWARD and such.

How does that even matter? 99% of all f2p games suck ass. Honestly if you think Jagex games are even close to p2p quality your blind.

I don't think the overall quality of RS is better than WOW and some others too but this is only MY own opinion. It doesn't represent the opionions of the 8 or 9 millions who play RS and those who voters who gave a golden joystick trophy to jagex.

Business is business but the opinions of a small group can't be used to rate the whole world.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

 

I don't think the overall quality of RS is better than WOW and some others too but this is only MY own opinion. It doesn't represent the opionions of the 8 or 9 millions who play RS and those who voters who gave a golden joystick trophy to jagex.

Business is business but the opinions of a small group can't be used to rate the whole world.

I honestly feel it appeals to people because its a web browser game.

You could use a PC without a video card and play it.

Thats the hook and the reason millions of children let their parents pay for the game.

We will see what they do with their next MMO and if they use that money to create a quality game.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

 

I don't think the overall quality of RS is better than WOW and some others too but this is only MY own opinion. It doesn't represent the opionions of the 8 or 9 millions who play RS and those who voters who gave a golden joystick trophy to jagex.

Business is business but the opinions of a small group can't be used to rate the whole world.

I honestly feel it appeals to people because its a web browser game.

You could use a PC without a video card and play it.

Thats the hook and the reason millions of children let their parents pay for the game.

We will see what they do with their next MMO and if they use that money to create a quality game.

 

 

I like their quests and stories a lot. There are none better in the industry. Their mini games are nice too.

However, I don't like it being a browser game. The world is too small for me to explore and its combat system is below par.

OK. Back to the main topic...

So... It seems like many people consider AAA rated mmorpg those who spend a lot, funded by a big company, have "good" quality (lol. definte what is good then)... what else?

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

I am just interested to find a guideline for mmorpg ratings because AFAIK there is not such agency.

As already stated, AAA is not a rating.  Here's a recent thread on the topic that should answer a lot of your questions:

MMORPG.com Thread on AAAA

And here's a link to another great source of information:

That hard to find Google thing

Originally posted by NinjaNerf
Jagex.....Jagex.....Jagex......Jagex.....Jagex....Jagex.

Stop.....just, stop it already.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

I am just interested to find a guideline for mmorpg ratings because AFAIK there is not such agency.

 

As already stated, AAA is not a rating.  Here's a recent thread on the topic that should answer a lot of your questions:

MMORPG.com Thread on AAAA

 

And here's a link to another great source of information:

That hard to find Google thing

 

 

Based on all the above posts and the 2 links you quoted I don't see how Jagex and Nexon not being listed as AAA then.

Jagex, I already talked about... And in Nexon's case it is quite similiar to NCSoft, only that one is p2p and then other is well... cash shop f2p and both provide questionable stats about their business results.

Originally posted by Mattyb710

Originally posted by NinjaNerf
Jagex.....Jagex.....Jagex......Jagex.....Jagex....Jagex.

 

Stop.....just, stop it already.

Mine is a case study. Your is absoulte spam. I can use many other companies for the sake of comparisons in further case study too. State your case and we can talk. Be gone bugger if you are just a spammer!

There is no such thing as a "AAA game".  There are games that are fun to play and games that are not fun to play.  It's just a marketing gimmick trying to ply your wallet open for them to plunder.  Sure, they've invested billions in their games, but that's their choice and who knows, maybe a big chunk of that was spent on expensive food and local brothels, just don't expect me to help them getting that money back in any way or form. 

RS is a great game and was quite revolutionary in its time and its own category.  What use is a self-labeled "AAA" game that you can't even download and play with your current hardware setting??  Be aware that big-budget game companies do hire marketing people to visit this forum and others disguising as players trying to influence our opinions.   "AAA" label is just one of their many little-known dirty tricks.

Next time, when someone brings up that "AAA" label again for his/her game, just get up and walk away.  Your wallet will thank you later.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf
 

Mine is a case study.

I think you're confusing 'case study' with 'agenda,' and the more you post the less people feel this post is a chin-scratching probe for genuine answers.

Had you just came out in the beginning and wrote "I feel Runescape is a AAA title,"that might have worked a lot better than the current approach which seems to indicate you are either dense or you plan to repeat the same question over and over until you get the answer that you want.

Jagex doesn't make AAA games in the eyes of the MMORPG.com community.  Are we representative of the entire world? No. Do we have any authority to say so? No.  Does our opinion matter? To us certainly, to others not so much.

I'll say it.  IMO, Jagex and its games are subpar, A or AA at best.

Why? Because i think they are, no quantifiable reasons necessary because we would totally disagree on what is azcceptable graphics, combat mechanics and what not.

I play EVE, and while I think the game is of AAA quality, CCP is more of a AA house because they don't have the deep pockets of other firms.

Deep pockets does not equal quality of course and I'm sure in the coming years more F2P companies will hit the big time and become recognized for delivery quality products. (I'm sure some already do)

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by nate1980

Quit being daft, the guy already answered your question. Things like this don't typically have a 100% good reason for being done or can be justified. AAA rating is really determined by the players and journalists. No one official. If you need someone official to validate a rating, then you won't find one. Just like the term sandbox, themepark, grind, questing, and so on; AAA is just a term the majority labels a game with.

So Nate, if no one official labels them, who is anyone to tell me I can't label such and such game as a AAA title? No one if you want to be daft and argue feverishly with the majority, but it's commonly accepted that only the big budget games get that rating.

 

What made Funcom a big budget company then? They are smaller than at least a couple indie ones.

This is why I call you daft. Read your question and ask yourself if you're not asking dumb questions. You asked, what made Funcom a big budget company? What makes any company a big budget company? A big budget, right? Now is that really hard to figure out? No, which leads anyone to the conclusion that you're just being daft on purpose. Size and budget, are not synonomous.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf
 

Mine is a case study.

 

I think you're confusing 'case study' with 'agenda,' and the more you post the less people feel this post is a chin-scratching probe for genuine answers.

 

Had you just came out in the beginning and wrote "I feel Runescape is a AAA title,"that might have worked a lot better than the current approach which seems to indicate you are either dense or you plan to repeat the same question over and over until you get the answer that you want.

No. Runescape is just a case study. I mentioned Nexon too. It just happens the info from RS is verifiable so using it in a case study can make solid comparisons. If I tried to compare Nexon with NCSoft then there will be a lot more arguments becuse both are questionalbe, only 1 is P2P and the other 1 is cash shop.

There are more. So my title can also be "I think game xyz is AAA" or "I don't think game abc should be AAA".

Ideally I want to know the origin of the term "AAA mmorpg". Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

AAA is actually a credit rating, different organistations in different countries do these ratings but internationally there are 3 major ones, Moodys, S&P and Fitch, I think.

And indeed, it says nothing about a companies product, it just says that the company is fiscally (  sp? ) sound.

No idea which of the different MMO companies are rated triple A.

And it is not the actual size of a company that matters, almost any company can get it, at least on a national level.

It just a measurment on how much risk is involved when investing in said company.

MMO's are high risk business for any company, so to be honest I doubt any of them are AAA, with the possible obvious exception of blizzard.

But feel free to look that up and tell us?

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by nate1980

Quit being daft, the guy already answered your question. Things like this don't typically have a 100% good reason for being done or can be justified. AAA rating is really determined by the players and journalists. No one official. If you need someone official to validate a rating, then you won't find one. Just like the term sandbox, themepark, grind, questing, and so on; AAA is just a term the majority labels a game with.

So Nate, if no one official labels them, who is anyone to tell me I can't label such and such game as a AAA title? No one if you want to be daft and argue feverishly with the majority, but it's commonly accepted that only the big budget games get that rating.

 

What made Funcom a big budget company then? They are smaller than at least a couple indie ones.

 

This is why I call you daft. Read your question and ask yourself if you're not asking dumb questions. You asked, what made Funcom a big budget company? What makes any company a big budget company? A big budget, right? Now is that really hard to figure out? No, which leads anyone to the conclusion that you're just being daft on purpose. Size and budget, are not synonomous.

Didn't you read my other posts? By small I meant not only in term of 'size' but also in "budget" too.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

You've already been told multiple times that 'the general public' (read: MMO gamers, in this case) uses the term differently than the industry does. Does the industry consider them AAA titles? Yes, because their gauge is budget. Do MMO gamers consider them AAA titles? No, because they use quality as the gauge.

What part are you having the most trouble with?

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

 

You've already been told multiple times that 'the general public' (read: MMO gamers, in this case) uses the term differently than the industry does. Does the industry consider them AAA titles? Yes, because their gauge is budget. Do MMO gamers consider them AAA titles? No, because they use quality as the gauge.

What part are you having the most trouble with?

 

I don't have trouble with anything. I want to know the exact origin of "AAA mmorpg". Who said that and based on what. Everything has an origin.

As far as " mmo gamers using quailty as the gauge", I am afraid it is only "SOME mmo gamers using quality as the gauge". My case has already been illustrated by the case of RS and Jagex. What the REAL people in the REAL world don't seem to agree with what the VIRTUAL people in the VIRTUAL worlds.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

 

You've already been told multiple times that 'the general public' (read: MMO gamers, in this case) uses the term differently than the industry does. Does the industry consider them AAA titles? Yes, because their gauge is budget. Do MMO gamers consider them AAA titles? No, because they use quality as the gauge.

What part are you having the most trouble with?

 

 

I don't have trouble with anything. I want to know the exact origin of "AAA mmorpg". Who said that and based on what. Everything has an origin.

As far as " mmo gamers using quailty as the gauge", I am afraid it is only "SOME mmo gamers using quality as the gauge". My case has already been illustrated by the case of RS and Jagex. What the REAL people in the REAL world don't seem to agree with what the VIRTUAL people in the VIRTUAL worlds.

And your argument against my post is actually a reworded agreement, so at this point you're either an idiot or a troll.  Sorry I wasted my time here. Later.

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

 

You've already been told multiple times that 'the general public' (read: MMO gamers, in this case) uses the term differently than the industry does. Does the industry consider them AAA titles? Yes, because their gauge is budget. Do MMO gamers consider them AAA titles? No, because they use quality as the gauge.

What part are you having the most trouble with?

 

 

I don't have trouble with anything. I want to know the exact origin of "AAA mmorpg". Who said that and based on what. Everything has an origin.

As far as " mmo gamers using quailty as the gauge", I am afraid it is only "SOME mmo gamers using quality as the gauge". My case has already been illustrated by the case of RS and Jagex. What the REAL people in the REAL world don't seem to agree with what the VIRTUAL people in the VIRTUAL worlds.

And as others have said you are asking for an answer that cant be nailed down to a specific date/time/place/person. Its like asking who was the first person to ever use the term 'Woot!' in a game, what date and time it happened.

It just cant be nailed down to any specifics.

Originally posted by Umbrood

AAA is actually a credit rating, different organistations in different countries do these ratings but internationally there are 3 major ones, Moodys, S&P and Fitch, I think.

And indeed, it says nothing about a companies product, it just says that the company is fiscally (  sp? ) sound.

No idea which of the different MMO companies are rated triple A.

And it is not the actual size of a company that matters, almost any company can get it, at least on a national level.

It just a measurment on how much risk is involved when investing in said company.

MMO's are high risk business for any company, so to be honest I doubt any of them are AAA, with the possible obvious exception of blizzard.

But feel free to look that up and tell us?

Wow out of all the post I have read THIS guy is the ONLY one who has gotten it right. Games were NEVER intended to be labeled AAA and no one in the gaming community uses it FOR games....metascores, alpha ratings, numeric rating, smiley faces....you name it it has been used. But the AAA label is only been used to describe COMPANIES backing these games. And what this guy posted above is the very reason ALONE.

How much clout does a company have? Who can they bring aboard to start a major project, as far as industry talent, and get the job done? How much financial support can they muster through investors to fund their projects? These are the questions asked by people who understand what the AAA title really means. The misuse of it here only further goes to show how many players tend to confuse themselves and corrode a term in the hopes of trying to define it.

Let's just get this straight:

Triple A companies can produce quality games

Triple A companies can produce crap games

Triple A companies DO NOT always have the players best interest in mind

Triple A companies are NOT limited in creating multiple hits

Triple A companies are NOT only limited to developers

Triple A companies ALWAYS have at least 1 blockbuster game that puts them on the "map"

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by Umbrood

AAA is actually a credit rating, different organistations in different countries do these ratings but internationally there are 3 major ones, Moodys, S&P and Fitch, I think.

And indeed, it says nothing about a companies product, it just says that the company is fiscally (  sp? ) sound.

No idea which of the different MMO companies are rated triple A.

And it is not the actual size of a company that matters, almost any company can get it, at least on a national level.

It just a measurment on how much risk is involved when investing in said company.

MMO's are high risk business for any company, so to be honest I doubt any of them are AAA, with the possible obvious exception of blizzard.

But feel free to look that up and tell us?

 

Wow out of all the post I have read THIS guy is the ONLY one who has gotten it right.

Actually, you are the only two to get it wrong:

http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/05/26/what-are-aaa-titles/

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/arey.shtml

You are confusing company ratings with a game description.

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by NinjaNerf

Then we can discuss and let people decide whether these AAA games are really AAA in the eyes of the general public.

 

You've already been told multiple times that 'the general public' (read: MMO gamers, in this case) uses the term differently than the industry does. Does the industry consider them AAA titles? Yes, because their gauge is budget. Do MMO gamers consider them AAA titles? No, because they use quality as the gauge.

What part are you having the most trouble with?

 

 

I don't have trouble with anything. I want to know the exact origin of "AAA mmorpg". Who said that and based on what. Everything has an origin.

As far as " mmo gamers using quailty as the gauge", I am afraid it is only "SOME mmo gamers using quality as the gauge". My case has already been illustrated by the case of RS and Jagex. What the REAL people in the REAL world don't seem to agree with what the VIRTUAL people in the VIRTUAL worlds.

 

And as others have said you are asking for an answer that cant be nailed down to a specific date/time/place/person. Its like asking who was the first person to ever use the term 'Woot!' in a game, what date and time it happened.

It just cant be nailed down to any specifics.

Woot! doesn't sound too interesting so I don't bother to find out. Noob and such will be more worthy to find out.

Anyway. if nobody knows then fine. I think we can't take the term "AAA mmorpg" too seriously. Not that those WOW and such aren't good but "AAA mmorpg" is not much different than those numerous of whatchamacallit awards WAR won.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by Umbrood

AAA is actually a credit rating, different organistations in different countries do these ratings but internationally there are 3 major ones, Moodys, S&P and Fitch, I think.

And indeed, it says nothing about a companies product, it just says that the company is fiscally (  sp? ) sound.

No idea which of the different MMO companies are rated triple A.

And it is not the actual size of a company that matters, almost any company can get it, at least on a national level.

It just a measurment on how much risk is involved when investing in said company.

MMO's are high risk business for any company, so to be honest I doubt any of them are AAA, with the possible obvious exception of blizzard.

But feel free to look that up and tell us?

 

Wow out of all the post I have read THIS guy is the ONLY one who has gotten it right.

 

Actually, you are the only two to get it wrong:

http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/05/26/what-are-aaa-titles/

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/arey.shtml

 

You are confusing company ratings with a game description.

 

 

These are self proclaimed epeens that are blogging to try to define what the title means when trying to apply it to games.....but in both accounts there is ONE glaring reality to what each of the bloggers include in their definitions: AAA titles HAVE to have big budgets. Nice try but you still have NOT pointed out one PROFESSIONALLY known media outlet that actually USES the term AAA to RATE anything other than companies.

Games decsriptions are not the issue here as many reviews use it as a means to reflect the quality of the company's success to a games worth, but production value does not equate ranking. Like I said people tend to twist a term to fit their own ambitions, but in this case AAA does not equal ranking, it's just a means to describe something.

There is no such thing as a AAA rated MMO......triple A description yes, but not rated....maybe you're thinking 4 stars?