Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by mmoluva

About 4 years ago I paid our friends from Asia to level a character on WOW but was suspended shortly after for doing so.  The few hours I was on I didn't really understand what all the hype was but there is a reason they are #1.  I never went back after the suspension but I wish I had because I've been logging in and out of so many games that have failed that I would have saved my self a lot of time by enduring the terrible Nickelodeon Slime.  At the end of the day the only thing that matters is server population and these guys have figured out a way to keep these types of people satisfied.  Just name an MMO and they haven't figured it out and I would bet my house they will never get it. 

You are not correct but whatever.The majority of WOW players were joining with no clue what so ever what WOW had,so they were joining on hype alone ,nothing else.The ability to keep players is simple,people are afraid to let their virtual candy go,they really are sad.As soon as a player gets level 40 or so,that is pretty much a guarantee to keep them without doing anything to the game.

What we see afterwards,in games are not the same people.The new games are either full of more demanding players OR they are just bored WOW players that have no intention on staying,witch is why we have seen so many high pops then they diminish so quickly.

The worst part of all ,is how bad WOW looks graphically and such cartoon poor looking detail[if any detail].The longer it survives the further down the food chain it falls,and it is near the bottom right now.Like i said ,players that have invested time,are afraid to let go,so yes WOW will keep those simpletons around for a long time.

Any proof?

How many of the millions joined WoW not knowing what WoW had?  Give me a number.  1 hundred?  1 million?  You know them?  Through what means?  MSN?  Or you just dream about it?

How many of the millions are afraid to let their virtual candy go?  Give me a number.  1 hundred?  1 million?  You know them?  Through what means?  MSN?  Or you just dream about it?

.... (repeat)

Define your food chain, define your measurement of ranking along the food chain. 

Now, if your reasoning is true that people will stay sub b/c of time commmited in game, all those self labeled hardcore games must be able to retain more (% wise) of their initial sub than WoW, which is labeled as a game for casuals as well as the dedicated.  Fact is, you are totally wrong.  Most of those so called hardcore games lose most sub within a year or two, while WoW slowly build up from 1million+ in year 1 to 5million or whatever milliion now.  5 years of growth.  Your reasoning contradicts with your conclusion.  Actually only 1 game seems to be able to build up its sub momentum over 5years and surpass the million sub mark.  It appears that sub retention in WoW has nothing to do with time sunk in.

Apart from pure nerd rage, you have nothing to say that can be backed up with evidence, or is plain wrong.  I call you and all your typing total bullshit.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by Cecropia

Considering the success of the few games they have made over the years, I'd have to wager that Blizzard's next mmo will most likely take the #1 spot at some point in the first year or two after release. If I was a gambling man, this is how I'd bet.

 

Ok i want to add something here, because it drives me nuts that everyone says blizzard is the God of Gaming and that everything they do is gold! (With that said do not get me wrong I like a lot of Blizzard games, like the RTS warcraft.) I think everyone in the world just decided to forget the fact that Blizzard and its parent company Vivendi were losing money before World of Warcraft came out. In fact Vivendi for a time was looking to sell Blizzard to try and pay off debt!

Plus if you look at WoW when it was first released you can tell that blizzard had to release the game early, because they needed money. The horde plot line is not nearly as developed as the alliance was. Plus the game was buggy and their servers crashed all the time, when it first launched. Of course this is just my theory I do not have proof of this!

 

Here is the articles for anyone that is interested that confirms that everything was not sunshine and roses before World of Warcraft for Blizzard. Link1  Link2

So to me there is as much reason to say there next MMO will not be as big as WOW, as there is to say it will be. And just so everyone knows I do not want there next MMO to fail, I personally do not care, since I will not be buying it!

 

 

The distribution company was going down the drain not blizzard look at the other portions of the group. Out of the three listed blizzard was the only one in positive figures. You can look into it more if you would like. Also people consider blizzard, as well as bioware, Giants of gaming because well they have yet to put out a bad game.

 

Yes I know they were making money, the point I was making is that with there previous games they were not quite fortune 500 material! And as for them not making a bad game that is a matter of opinion not fact, name one of there single player games that sold nearly as good as Halo3 or the most resent craze Modern Warfare 2. And just to be fair I might be wrong, I guess we will find out when Diablo 3 comes out! Since sells numbers are everything at least that is the reason why I keep hearing why WoW is the best and so is Blizzard!

 

 

Now that is an unfair comparison.  You sell a lot of copies for Halo3 or MW2, that is one shot.  WoW brings in $150x5million monthly from sub in US+Europe, plus unknown royalties from the other regions.  Plus box sales (top or near top of chart ever since launch), plus other service income from server transfers ... .  Now do you think that Blizz comes out short?

As for Diablo 3, yeah that is a real test.  Blizzard has not issued anything single player since Daiblo 2.

On the other hand, we all know that Blizz has starcraft 2, diablo 3 and a new MMO in the pipeline.  Given the trademark of Blizz, it almost automatically translates into huge future revenue.  From the aspect of a game producer, I have yet to count more than 5 companies matching that kind of "market value".

Did you even read my post, that is why I said single player game not MMO! I was comparing Blizzards previous single player games with the mega hits that have most recently happened in that industry. Because by your logic (and a lot of other peoples) that it is almost automatic huge revenue for Blizzard, then there previous games must of set some records on one day sales like Halo and MW2. And as for not being able to count 5 companies that have that market value, you need to get out more since I can easily count 5 with out thinking to hard. 1. Bungie-  Halo series, 2. Bioware - Bunch of single player RPGs, 3. Infinity Ward - Call of Duty series, 4. Rockstar - GTA and Max Payne, 5. Maxis - Sims Franchise.

Now when Diablo 3 and Star Craft 2 comes out and they have record breaking sells then I might be more inclined to agree with you! Until then Blizzard was a average income game developer until they hit it big with WOW, and that is it unless they can prove they can do it again. It is stupid at least to me, to assume that ever thing blizzard does is going to make them millions until they set that track record!

On a side note, I find it interesting that Blizzard fans always say that they are the top of the gaming industry based on sub numbers and revenue. Although X-box live has more people on that, then blizzard does on WOW, so shouldn't that mean that Microsoft is the true king of the gaming industry? Just a thought, like I said I do not care either way since I do not buy games off of how much a game company has made in the past. I also do not think most of mankind does either, or we would all still be driving fords!

 This guy is still around? After all the posts about Darkfall, then he vanished...now he is back? Really? And in the first paragraph says he had someone else level his toon? Poke my eyes out, slap my face, and call me Timmy, but "F" this clown...

Originally posted by lisubab

To metal and the host of noisy people.  Can you provide an objective assessment of quality of WoW as a game, apart from your personal subjective view expressed in simple adjectives or unsubstantiated words.

Ok you call the game shallow?  How is the game shallow, in terms of aspects of gameplay? in terms of complexity in the maths behind the damage mitigation hit regenerations and other aspects?  How about crafting, how many dimensions can be supplemented with crafting, compared with other games?  How about design of boss fights, do you have any idea how to compare this across games?

Ok you call it gear chase.  So?  That automatically makes it a bad game?  Reasons?  So ganking or camping a portal in EvE makes it a superior game?  Any reasons apart from your own view?

 

A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. 

Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues.

Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same.

It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want.

Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is.

You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW.

Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.

Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by lisubab

To metal and the host of noisy people.  Can you provide an objective assessment of quality of WoW as a game, apart from your personal subjective view expressed in simple adjectives or unsubstantiated words.

Ok you call the game shallow?  How is the game shallow, in terms of aspects of gameplay? in terms of complexity in the maths behind the damage mitigation hit regenerations and other aspects?  How about crafting, how many dimensions can be supplemented with crafting, compared with other games?  How about design of boss fights, do you have any idea how to compare this across games?

Ok you call it gear chase.  So?  That automatically makes it a bad game?  Reasons?  So ganking or camping a portal in EvE makes it a superior game?  Any reasons apart from your own view?

 

A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. 

Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues.

Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same.

It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want.

Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is.

You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW.

Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.

 

Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.

 

 

 

It's mind boggling how bitter some people are at success if it's not their 'favorite'.  You don't have to like WoW, but if you don't understand why WoW appeals to a large number of people, you're either blind, stupid or both.  It is because of its gameplay options that its popular. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. 

Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues.

Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same.

It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want.

Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is.

You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW.

Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.

 

Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.

 

 

 

 

It's time that you start playing WOW again.

Before talking about "OPTIONS".

Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".

---- > Ok Here we go:

Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people  (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.

Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.

Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).

Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.

Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.

And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.

City Raids that give achievements and awards.

So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? :))) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.

And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....

I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).

Others play for even other titles and achievements.

OLD wow was all about gear.

WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.

Apparenly you don't even know it. (by  not playing it and see the evident facts).

You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.

Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.

First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. :)))

 

Your choice.

 

Well, the way you put it it seems a decent PvP system, yes.

The biggest problem is that we are stuck to those options for almost 2 years between expansions.

Fun has a limit, after a while its just repeating the exact same thing over and over for 2 years.

Blizzard released that new BG in a patch, true. But it's only a new BG, the core maintains the same. Repeat repeat repeat repeat, over and over again.

A world PvP system with castles and fortresses that open world bosses, bonus, as a general feature is much more fun, even because its in open world.

PvP should work like wintergrasp, except it would happen in 10 different places around the world, all of them opening possibilities (bosses, raid, whatever) and in full open world.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. 

Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues.

Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same.

It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want.

Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is.

You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW.

Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.

 

Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.

 

 

 

 

It's time that you start playing WOW again.

Before talking about "OPTIONS".

Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".

---- > Ok Here we go:

Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people  (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.

Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.

Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).

Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.

Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.

And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.

City Raids that give achievements and awards.

So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? :))) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.

And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....

I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).

Others play for even other titles and achievements.

OLD wow was all about gear.

WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.

Apparenly you don't even know it. (by  not playing it and see the evident facts).

You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.

Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.

First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. :)))

 

Your choice.

 

Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.

You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing

What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?

Why do u arena? items off a vendor

Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor

Why do you run dungeons? Item drops

Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor

Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor

Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor

Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor

Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor

ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

might as well go play Diablo.

Why have options if the goal is always the same?

i think WoW will last at least untill 2020 and possibly beyond . all i have to say to the OP if you think it ll still be number one in 10 years time is dont be stupid . and why if WoW is still number one would they ever want to close the doors as well >??? i mean its a idiotic statement to make if you think about it .

Originally posted by Amstrup

Ghowstcrawler stated LAST month that the wow sub was INCREASING.

So a guy who's job is to talk to the community wouldn't lie? Show me cold hard facts that it is INFACT increasing. WoW has reached it's peak. Cataclysm is a PERFECT title for their next expansion. WoW can either start gaining back the tons of people who have found it boring or they can die. The reason why they're revamping starter areas is b/c players like pretty and good animations. So by them revamping alot of the biggest areas in the main world. This is so that they can get more players. Now a player can supposedly just buy the original game and level to the top w/o ever having to go to Outland or Northrend. Or atleast that's how they were making it out to be. Truth be told, you'll still have to go out there but leveling's just going to get easier. And they'll have more end game content. It's only 5 levels. There's not much you can do with 5 levels so they're going to of course make those five levels seem entirely like end game content.

I'll believe that WoW has 11mil subs when they release their tax records to the public. Show me that and i'll believe them.

Wow will remain #1 despite how many people will try to downplay it. The new expansion Cataclysm will only heighten it for a while.  Blizzard did a fantastic job in making ths game and keeping players subbing to it.

(Engages Deathwing in plunger to tooth duel! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH deathwing submits to Raving Rabbid as his mount)

Originally posted by 133794m3r

Originally posted by Amstrup

Ghowstcrawler stated LAST month that the wow sub was INCREASING.

 

So a guy who's job is to talk to the community wouldn't lie? Show me cold hard facts that it is INFACT increasing. WoW has reached it's peak. Cataclysm is a PERFECT title for their next expansion. WoW can either start gaining back the tons of people who have found it boring or they can die. The reason why they're revamping starter areas is b/c players like pretty and good animations. So by them revamping alot of the biggest areas in the main world. This is so that they can get more players. Now a player can supposedly just buy the original game and level to the top w/o ever having to go to Outland or Northrend. Or atleast that's how they were making it out to be. Truth be told, you'll still have to go out there but leveling's just going to get easier. And they'll have more end game content. It's only 5 levels. There's not much you can do with 5 levels so they're going to of course make those five levels seem entirely like end game content.

I'll believe that WoW has 11mil subs when they release their tax records to the public. Show me that and i'll believe them.

either that or when blizzard release thier official subscription numbers . which they hav nt done in nearly a year now . the subs hav nt gone up this year its pretty obvious they wont have been static so they most likly have gone down in numbers given theres been no xpax this year to boost them again . they ll proberbly pick up next year with cataclysm and around this christmas because WoW is so cheap to buy now its a good stocking filler for the kids . i ve actually brought a copy for my 12 year old neice . its a nice game for someone of her age . it ll proberbly never again be able to boast 12 million players again but even if it does nt its decline will be so slow that even in 10 years it ll  still be able to boast having a couple of million players .

Originally posted by mmoluva

About 4 years ago I paid our friends from Asia to level a character on WOW but was suspended shortly after for doing so.  The few hours I was on I didn't really understand what all the hype was but there is a reason they are #1.  I never went back after the suspension but I wish I had because I've been logging in and out of so many games that have failed that I would have saved my self a lot of time by enduring the terrible Nickelodeon Slime.  At the end of the day the only thing that matters is server population and these guys have figured out a way to keep these types of people satisfied.  Just name an MMO and they haven't figured it out and I would bet my house they will never get it. 

They are #1 ( in terms of subscriptions, not in active players ) because they released a fluid game, with a well known brand, easy to get into, good marketing, relatively bugfree, enjoyable ( for a while ), at a time there was no good competetion in the same segment of mmo's. ( to name a few : DAoC failed with ToA and NF, SWG failed with CU and NGE and EQ was slowly going down ).

Now, the good thing with having so many players, is that they have money for alot of content. The bad thing is, they can't really innovate, they have to keep copying what works and make it easy enough so the most people can play it.

This while EVE Online for example can innovate and they don't have to dumb down their game, they don't have to and don't want to please everyone. Plus they have the second largest shard in the world ( after Second Life ), with tens of thousands of people online at all times, it is a vibrant growing world.

So while I enjoyed my time in WoW ( even tho I missed the DAoC RvR element ), I am probably even more sattisfied now with EVE.

They keep pumping out free expansions every 6 months giving the players the tools to create their own content and goals, so in the end, EVE has alot more content than WoW ever can achieve, you can "finish" WoW, but you can't "finish" EVE.

Besides that, if you look at LOTRO, a more similar game to WoW, they pump out at least as much content as WoW, and they have alot less players indeed. Still they make good profits.

Lastly, EVE is growing more steadily and faster than WoW, so I predict that EVE will surpass WoW in the year 2030 :p

The ops title makes no sense.. if they are #1 they won't close the doors.. if they don't close the doors that means wow will be running for all of eternity.. The title of the post makes no sense at all, critical think a little man.. just a little..

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by metalhead980

A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. 

Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues.

Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same.

It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want.

Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is.

You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW.

Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.

 

Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.

 

 

 

 

It's time that you start playing WOW again.

Before talking about "OPTIONS".

Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".

---- > Ok Here we go:

Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people  (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.

Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.

Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).

Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.

Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.

And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.

City Raids that give achievements and awards.

So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? :))) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.

And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....

I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).

Others play for even other titles and achievements.

OLD wow was all about gear.

WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.

Apparenly you don't even know it. (by  not playing it and see the evident facts).

You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.

Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.

First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. :)))

 

Your choice.

 

Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.

You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing

What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?

Why do u arena? items off a vendor

Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor

Why do you run dungeons? Item drops

Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor

Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor

Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor

Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor

Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor

 

ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

might as well go play Diablo.

Why have options if the goal is always the same?

I had written a huge post on why most of those points are wrong, but Firefox decided to have a nice crash on me.
Anyway, I'll just say the TL;DR version of it:
Achievements and titles are not meaningless.
A Gladiator or a guild with Death's Demise will be famous server-wide or even battlegroup-wide. People will go "Oh shit" when they see one in BGs,WG or WPvP.
You cannot get those titles without having an extremely skilled and dedicated team and this is a fact. The amount of coordonation you need for Yogg Saron 0 25man, even post nerf, is rather extreme..
That little title can and change your gameplay itself. People will respect you more, they'll look for you more, they'll talk with/talk about you more and you'll genrally have higher priority over people without them(for example, what do you think a current season Gladiator is gonna choose for high-rated arena. A player with great gear and only 1800 or a Gladiator from BC with average gear. I guarantee you 100% that it will be the BC gladiator).
If this doesn't have a meaning...
Also, if you don't raid, do WG and play arena for fun...then you might as not play it at all. Gear is very easy to get and the difference between hardmode/normalmode and 1800/2200 arena items is rather insignificant(but still noticeable). 
People who attempt hardmodes/try to get gladiator will not do it for gear. They'll do it for the "meaningless titles", challenge and fun.
You really seem to be burnt out with WoW, but that doesn't mean we all share the same "ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!" ideology.

What makes WoW #1 ??? Numbers? I don't play it so it's not #1 in my book...

Hasn't anyone noticed the paradox in the title?

Why would anyone shut down a game that was #1?

Shouldn't the title be "Wow will never shut its doors because it will remain #1 forever?"

Stating it that way - seems a little more ludicrous. Someday, although not in the forseeable future, WoW will lose it's spot at #1 and will eventually have to shut down.

Seems to me that the OP has to prove somehow that A. Wow will remain #1 in perpetuity and B. The doors will be shut despite all this.

Anyway.......

Go WoW!

Originally posted by Vaedur

The ops title makes no sense.. if they are #1 they won't close the doors.. if they don't close the doors that means wow will be running for all of eternity.. The title of the post makes no sense at all, critical think a little man.. just a little..

I was going to post that as well, brilliant business sense to close down the #1 game and lose out on all that money. But I guess they're just so super awesome they can do that, just for the sake of doing it.

I personally can't bring myself to look at WoW anymore but yes it is number one in just about everything that is MMO except graphics, sound.

Also the gear thing is silly since every fantasy MMO could be labelled the same way.  I do not play an MMO for the end game gear grind.  In fact, thats when I reroll or cancel.  I play to explore a class and the world... once.  Once I've seen it all, and I want to see it all, I'm out.

Where WoW caters to more of its player base than other MMOs is that its dungeon/raid system allows a more open choice.  Others are very gear gated, WoW offers an "easy" mode and a "hardcore" mode.  More access means more reason to stay subbed.  Also slow released means casual players aren't overwhelmed to keep up.  Which is what in the end killed EQ.  Too much content too fast.  EQ2's fault is too much gating keeping players out of the content they do release.

WoW is number one because despite their engine faults... they make very little dumb dumbs otherwise.  Well the sparkly quest/mat thing is really badly done but again falls under graphics.  If WoW looked like WAR, ouch Blizz would still have me by the nuts.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by arenasb

It's been a long time since Blizzard has released anything new and not just a sequel.

They are making an all new MMO based on a new IP.  That is the rumour.

Knowing how Blizz does its own development work, we can only wait, they never feel the need to hurry.  Anything they put onto shelves or downloading websites, will sell like hotcakes.  Their reputation alone will carry their games a long long way.

I am also impatient to try out Diablo 3, knowing it is a sequel.  Sequel or not, Blizz games has so far make me and my friends very happy.

I agree that Blizzard makes quality games. Diablo remains my second favorite action rpg game ever. And I know about their upcoming mmo (probably released in 2015 knowing blizzard). Still, it has been a long time since they have created anything new, heck even WoW is based after the RTS series. Personally I wish they would create another rts game, that genre has been lacking lately in my opinion.

Originally posted by Solude

Also the gear thing is silly since every fantasy MMO could be labelled the same way.  I do not play an MMO for the end game gear grind.  In fact, thats when I reroll or cancel.  I play to explore a class and the world... once.  Once I've seen it all, and I want to see it all, I'm out.

This paragraph right here folks is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Sorry to centre you out Solude, but you have only demonstrated your lack of experience with other mmos.

No, every fantasy game cannot be labelled the same way. I'm sorry the ones you have had the opportunity to sample have been all focused on gear, but that is not the reality with all other games. The whole point is though, many of us have no desire to continue to see game after game being released with the intention of taking on WOW. Or at the very least copy as much as they can from the damn thing. You have to understand that those of us that have played WOW and have grown tired enough with it not to return, are desperate for some innovation.

All forms of entertainment will shrivel up and die eventually without any innovation. Music, TV, and Video Games included.

The WOW mentality actually reminds me of something from Physics...

inertia n. Physics . The tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest or of a body in straight line.

Sounds spot on to me.