UO was the bomb in 1997

they fucked it all up by removing Dread lords because some EA shareholder got mother***ing pwned walking out of guardzone chopped in pieces and cooked , so that shareholder got mad turned UO after a year into a candy land where everyone is a happy colored weapon owning 7xgm chevalier castle owner 1 hit dragon killing single player character.

EA shareolder sure knows how to turn the best ever made game into rat poop.

Originally posted by sempiternal

These two EA developers, Stellerex and Sunsword, are responsible for two of the most ill-conceived expansions;

UO: Renaissance aka the consensual Trammel mirror

UO: Age of Shadows aka as the Item-Based gameplay expansion

Both of these expansions were drastic changes to the existing Ultima Online game and rules.

Only someone in a position of power, can abuse that power; such as a producer getting away with changing the rules in the middle of a game.

Bit of thread necromancy as i am bored while gate jumping around eve and this post jumped out (and doubt this forum will even notice as so inactive)

AoS was actually Evocare (Tom Chilton's) "Baby", he designed and developed it and left just before it was released, Sunsword just released it. He had pretty much no input into it and has said more than once off the record that he thought "it was the wrong direction to take UO"

And where did Chilton go? WoW, currently one of the 3 lead designers there, one responsible for (screwing up) pvp, amongst other things

Edit: Not saying Sunsword was a good developer either, far from it. But it's right to give the credit for age of sh*t to the correct people

I remember sunsword prancing around the globe advertising AOS...in a ninja suit.

If he's the producer, the ultimate responsiblity falls on him for approving it I would think...

sunsword was always in the forums talking about how great is was goign to be

...same thing he did with trammel.

 "In some ways, UO can feel very much like a new game because of the new skills, areas, and systems such as “item properties.” We don’t have specific plans to help ease the return of veteran players other than to focus on what makes UO fundamentally good." -Sunsword

http://www.corpnews.com/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1087496182,19790

llok at this guy in ninja suit...oh wait was that samurai empire? I get all those junk expansions mixed up...

  http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20041014/uoi01.jpg 

is the other guy evocare?

Originally posted by King-Kong

I remember sunsword prancing around the globe advertising AOS...in a ninja suit.

If he's the producer, the ultimate responsiblity falls on him for approving it I would think...

sunsword was always in the forums talking about how great is was goign to be

...same thing he did with trammel.

 

 "In some ways, UO can feel very much like a new game because of the new skills, areas, and systems such as “item properties.” We don’t have specific plans to help ease the return of veteran players other than to focus on what makes UO fundamentally good." -Sunsword

http://www.corpnews.com/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1087496182,19790

 

 

llok at this guy in ninja suit...oh wait was that samurai empire? I get all those junk expansions mixed up...

  http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20041014/uoi01.jpg 

is the other guy evocare?

 

As i said, sunsword released it but it was Evocare who "made it".

Basiclly Evo spent around 2 years in charge of it's development (lead designer), left for WoW just before it was released, sunsword got evocares job (if i remember correctly sunsword had not been working on UO for a long time) and was handed AoS to release as 'fait accompli'

As for him hyping it up for release, well what exactly could he have done?

Tell EA that the millions they had spent was on a load of garbage and that he wanted to go back to drawing board?

Or release it and tell everyone "this is a peice of shit but releaseing it anyway"

Either of those would have been good ways to lose one's job fast

And no that's not chilton, pic here of him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Chilton_(game_developer)

Originally posted by EndDream

Old school Ultima Online was, and unfortunatly probably always will be the best game ever made. In my opinion, i could play anything, even really great games like starcraft or gears of war.. but they are crap compaired to the world that was Ultima Online, the freedom in an mmo was more immersive than anything since, no photorealistic graphics could ever bring the immersion that this game brought

i agree with the entire post...

and yes trammel did bring a short period of raised population, but it quickly went much lower, UO would have more subs now if it was like it used to be.. but it never will bbe and the free shards are just not the same..

Hopefully Darkfall is good, or I will quit MMO's permanently.. atleast I can have fun playing gears of war for as long as it lasts.. there is no fun in any new school MMO for me.. they are just boring and depressing

Yep, it was all about the freedom.

Freedom is popular.

*never mind just realised replying to  a post over a year old..stupid board not going to last page when told to*

It doesn't matter, the information is still valid.

 Brilliant sir!!!

Original built a world, EA destroyed it.

Gospel!

Great, thanks for posting that image. What joke UO has become!

Tell you what: I am currently playing UO back on the official shards, after playing for years on Freeshard Defiance.

Even in its CURRENT state, UO still beats every other MMO I tried (which were quite a lot). That throws a very sad picture on todays MMO-market.

Originally posted by Kalvasflamm

Tell you what: I am currently playing UO back on the official shards, after playing for years on Freeshard Defiance.

Even in its CURRENT state, UO still beats every other MMO I tried (which were quite a lot). That throws a very sad picture on todays MMO-market.

Your right.  I quit UO for long time because of Trammel.  But you know what?  I'm back for good.  I played all the new MMO's from SWG to LOTRO and this game still has the most freedom and best character development.  Sure it has all this fancy new gear etc., but you can easily adapt to it.  

Tons of Content

Still has some PVP, you can still be a murderer

IDOCS still exist (Fel ones offer PVP)

Skill based system.  Far superior to the level grind

Housing that lets you do anything you want.

Rares, True Rares, Collectibles still exist.  Right now i'm trying to track down my old Whispering Rose.

History.  Some of the old towns and players still roam the lands.  You can still talk about old times, which none of these new MMO's can compare with.

Great interaction with the development team.  LIve events each month.  Meetings with game developers and they are even helping us setup the community by linking player towns

Crafting 2nd to none.

All the above puts UO back on top for me.  Trust me, I was just as upset with all the changes as you were.  However, most those changes are part of all the new MMO's.  The NEW MMO"s dont have what I listed above and thats what makes the difference.  Find an MMO with everything UO offers RIGHT NOW !!  (Early SWG was the only game I found to compete with UO)

I"m hooked again.   I started a player town, got involved with other community members and we are shaping our world. 

So say what you want, this game still has the top spot in my eyes.  You can sit on the sideline and rip the coach or get on the field and make a difference.  I don't care about the graphics.  The game mechanics are what matter to me.

Take Care

I would gladly go back to UO because, like others, I believe it's still not been topped by any MMO out there. However, I can't bring myself to go back and here is why:

#1 EA's lack of interest in making UO the great game is should be. There was so much potential in UO back in the day and as soon as EA took over, they started driving it into the ground one crappy expansion after another. It got to the point where UO was no longer UO, but something along the lines of WoW with a UO theme. Eventually, it became depressing to even log in simply because you knew the game was never going to improve, only get worse. Which leads into my next reason having to do with EA's lack of interest:

#2 Cheating. It's been an issue since day one, no doubt. Back in the days of UOE when it was a simple loop of tasks to make things like fishing a bit less painful, they were constantly on people. Even when people started using recorded macros, they kept banning them. Somewhere along the line though (around 2000) , they stopped caring and suddenly everyone was using macro and skill programs that would do everything for them. Then, to add insult to injury, they made LRC armor which allowed people to mine all over the world using scripts with no worry about being killed. The market for things like ore dropped and suddenly, everyone had 450million ingots in their houses and banks. Oh, and, everyone had miners, which made things worse because back in the day, the only people who had grandmaster miners were the people who really wanted to play them because of how long it took and how expensive it was to make one.

Then there is the duping issue... which is still a huge issue today. Making rare and valuable items worthless as they could be copied and duplicated at will. And EA has done nothing about any of it for years. We even held large protests in game, had GMs coming in and watching, but nothing ever happened. The dupers were still there the following week, proudly displaying their illegal items to everyone.

#3 The lack of longevity. As much as I would love to say I would play it, logging in would be a hard thing to do because of the reasons above. I could 7x all my characters again, but what point? Everyone has already won the game. Everyone is already maxed out. You can only fight peerless so many times before you lose interest. You can only attempt to pvp so often when you get ganked by people all using easyuo to keep themselves constantly healed.

What needs to happen is that UO needs to be redesigned and reborn, whether it happens under the Ultima name or not doesn't matter. But there needs to be changes made, learning from the mistakes and making a better product. Whether it's Ultima or Garriotts new product that he may be secretly working on... we need another game like Ultima.

We need the player run economy with player run houses that have player run shops. We need the players to be the first and foremost resource for items instead of getting powerful weapons from monsters. We need a fully open sandbox world with punishment for dying (full loot) and punishment for killing (Something like the old statloss days where dying as a murderer meant something bad that you didn't want to happen). We need things done right such as protection in towns for people who don't want to be pked. The game needs the best of both worlds that will work for both PVMers and PVPers, even those who want to play a non-combat style game, yet still be at risk.

Mostly, you need a game company that cares about their product and their players. Cheaters need dealt with harshly, the game needs to be supported with bug fixes, new content, and events. Do this, and you will have the next UO that people will be playing in mass for 12 years instead of hanging by a thread.

Originally posted by Mystic_Fuzz

I would gladly go back to UO because, like others, I believe it's still not been topped by any MMO out there. However, I can't bring myself to go back and here is why:

#1 EA's lack of interest in making UO the great game is should be. There was so much potential in UO back in the day and as soon as EA took over, they started driving it into the ground one crappy expansion after another. It got to the point where UO was no longer UO, but something along the lines of WoW with a UO theme. Eventually, it became depressing to even log in simply because you knew the game was never going to improve, only get worse. Which leads into my next reason having to do with EA's lack of interest:

Well, of course we could be discussing for weeks if they messed up the game. In my opinion: yes, they did. But then, I am kind of a nerd, always wanting things hardcore. The players still be playing: the overwhelming majority love all these changes. And I doubt that they still would be playing if a lot of these changes weren't made. As I already told in another thread: i am still playing on an freeshard too whenever I find the time. This freeshard has Pre-Ren-Setting, hardcore, with hardcore players. But even the devs of this freeshard have to integrate changes (and not all of them are good: neons, faction changes etc.) to keep people interested. No changes for a longer period of time means less players. They already stated that.

And I tell you what: Do I like Elves in UO? No! Do I like people able to play gargoyles? No! Do I like that there are some skills hardly used any more like item identification etc.? No! But there are a lot of changes I approve. First of all, I like the Powerscroll System coming into the game with AoS. Yes I know, most of you will be saying: WTF?? Yes, I understand, Powerscrolls messed up a lot of templates. But in no other game I know you can actually be fighting about or stealing things wich permanently boosts your char. There is no other concept, as successful, to give players reason to PvP or play their thieves. Yes, they messed Full Loot System with Item Insurance, no doubt, but the new system has still its benefits. I LOVE DOING CHAMPION SPAWNS!  Its so much fun with being raided over and over, hardcore fights with often about 20-30 players. I love it! Really, I do! Powerscrolls gave players a new reason to get on their thieves. Remember: hardly anyone was playing in Fel before AoS, lots of items were already blessed, nothing much to steal except for a vanq. Factions were already done. The new stats system on weapons: you can say what you want, but I know people who do hardly anything else than "working" on their armor: always striving to enhance it. You couldn't do that before AoS. Then again, it messed up crafting system. Yes.

Atm I can only say, UO has not been better for years! Its so much fun right now, especially since factions are working again! New land, more houses, more IDOCs, new weapons, lots to explore, new skills (even crafting skills), LOTs of champions and harrowers, still a lot of RP (especially on Europa).

#2 Cheating. It's been an issue since day one, no doubt. Back in the days of UOE when it was a simple loop of tasks to make things like fishing a bit less painful, they were constantly on people. Even when people started using recorded macros, they kept banning them. Somewhere along the line though (around 2000) , they stopped caring and suddenly everyone was using macro and skill programs that would do everything for them. Then, to add insult to injury, they made LRC armor which allowed people to mine all over the world using scripts with no worry about being killed. The market for things like ore dropped and suddenly, everyone had 450million ingots in their houses and banks. Oh, and, everyone had miners, which made things worse because back in the day, the only people who had grandmaster miners were the people who really wanted to play them because of how long it took and how expensive it was to make one.

Then there is the duping issue... which is still a huge issue today. Making rare and valuable items worthless as they could be copied and duplicated at will. And EA has done nothing about any of it for years. We even held large protests in game, had GMs coming in and watching, but nothing ever happened. The dupers were still there the following week, proudly displaying their illegal items to everyone.

You are right! And cheating still is an issue. But they announced on stratics forums a few weeks ago (stumbled above that post) that cheating (speed hacking, duping) will be the next thing looked into. 

#3 The lack of longevity. As much as I would love to say I would play it, logging in would be a hard thing to do because of the reasons above. I could 7x all my characters again, but what point? Everyone has already won the game. Everyone is already maxed out. You can only fight peerless so many times before you lose interest. You can only attempt to pvp so often when you get ganked by people all using easyuo to keep themselves constantly healed.

 UO has never been about "winning the game" like most of the modern MMOs. I still PvP a lot, and yes, there are hackers, but I find a lot people pvping without bugs. How do I know, because I am able to kill them without cheats ;)

And there is so much to do besides PvP in UO. And thats coming from me, hardcore PvPer!

What needs to happen is that UO needs to be redesigned and reborn, whether it happens under the Ultima name or not doesn't matter. But there needs to be changes made, learning from the mistakes and making a better product. Whether it's Ultima or Garriotts new product that he may be secretly working on... we need another game like Ultima.

We need the player run economy with player run houses that have player run shops. We need the players to be the first and foremost resource for items instead of getting powerful weapons from monsters. We need a fully open sandbox world with punishment for dying (full loot) and punishment for killing (Something like the old statloss days where dying as a murderer meant something bad that you didn't want to happen). We need things done right such as protection in towns for people who don't want to be pked. The game needs the best of both worlds that will work for both PVMers and PVPers, even those who want to play a non-combat style game, yet still be at risk.

Mostly, you need a game company that cares about their product and their players. Cheaters need dealt with harshly, the game needs to be supported with bug fixes, new content, and events. Do this, and you will have the next UO that people will be playing in mass for 12 years instead of hanging by a thread.

Agreed, but if you don't like "OSI" UO, get on a freeshard. Defiance or Gamers: Really, it's nearly the same as it was in the old times! 

Originally posted by GungaDin

Originally posted by Kalvasflamm

Tell you what: I am currently playing UO back on the official shards, after playing for years on Freeshard Defiance.

Even in its CURRENT state, UO still beats every other MMO I tried (which were quite a lot). That throws a very sad picture on todays MMO-market.

 

Your right.  I quit UO for long time because of Trammel.  But you know what?  I'm back for good.  I played all the new MMO's from SWG to LOTRO and this game still has the most freedom and best character development.  Sure it has all this fancy new gear etc., but you can easily adapt to it.  

Tons of Content

Still has some PVP, you can still be a murderer

IDOCS still exist (Fel ones offer PVP)

Skill based system.  Far superior to the level grind

Housing that lets you do anything you want.

Rares, True Rares, Collectibles still exist.  Right now i'm trying to track down my old Whispering Rose.

History.  Some of the old towns and players still roam the lands.  You can still talk about old times, which none of these new MMO's can compare with.

Great interaction with the development team.  LIve events each month.  Meetings with game developers and they are even helping us setup the community by linking player towns

Crafting 2nd to none.

 

All the above puts UO back on top for me.  Trust me, I was just as upset with all the changes as you were.  However, most those changes are part of all the new MMO's.  The NEW MMO"s dont have what I listed above and thats what makes the difference.  Find an MMO with everything UO offers RIGHT NOW !!  (Early SWG was the only game I found to compete with UO)

I"m hooked again.   I started a player town, got involved with other community members and we are shaping our world. 

So say what you want, this game still has the top spot in my eyes.  You can sit on the sideline and rip the coach or get on the field and make a difference.  I don't care about the graphics.  The game mechanics are what matter to me.

Take Care

 

Well, I couldn't say it any better! Welcome back! There is so much to do in UO, it's amazing! Even when it comes to the PvE-part, which has enhanced a lot (for those who like to do PvE), its better than most other games. Imagine doing a peerless in fel (we did that a lot) and getting raided afterwards. Woohooo!!!! 

And you are right, there is NO other MMO that offers that much as UO. You say "I don't care about the graphics". I am still playing with the old client, and I love the graphics! Still! So many details, reminds me of the old Ultima times.

And its not only us, others, who were aways for a very long time, are hooked up again too: http://www.aschulze.net/ultima/

---

Originally posted by Kalvasflamm Well, of course we could be discussing for weeks if they messed up the game. In my opinion: yes, they did. But then, I am kind of a nerd, always wanting things hardcore. The players still be playing: the overwhelming majority love all these changes. And I doubt that they still would be playing if a lot of these changes weren't made. As I already told in another thread: i am still playing on an freeshard too whenever I find the time. This freeshard has Pre-Ren-Setting, hardcore, with hardcore players. But even the devs of this freeshard have to integrate changes (and not all of them are good: neons, faction changes etc.) to keep people interested. No changes for a longer period of time means less players. They already stated that.

---

There lies one of the major issues. Fewer and fewer people are playing. Oh sure, some come back when they get nostalgic and miss their old beloved game, but how many stick around? Most are gone again within the month, some within the hour once they see how bad things have gotten. I remember when I brought a few friends back in, the took one look around, laughed, and left again because things have gotten the way they are.

---

And I tell you what: Do I like Elves in UO? No! Do I like people able to play gargoyles? No! Do I like that there are some skills hardly used any more like item identification etc.? No! But there are a lot of changes I approve. First of all, I like the Powerscroll System coming into the game with AoS. Yes I know, most of you will be saying: WTF?? Yes, I understand, Powerscrolls messed up a lot of templates. But in no other game I know you can actually be fighting about or stealing things wich permanently boosts your char. There is no other concept, as successful, to give players reason to PvP or play their thieves. Yes, they messed Full Loot System with Item Insurance, no doubt, but the new system has still its benefits. I LOVE DOING CHAMPION SPAWNS!  Its so much fun with being raided over and over, hardcore fights with often about 20-30 players. I love it! Really, I do! Powerscrolls gave players a new reason to get on their thieves. Remember: hardly anyone was playing in Fel before AoS, lots of items were already blessed, nothing much to steal except for a vanq. Factions were already done. The new stats system on weapons: you can say what you want, but I know people who do hardly anything else than "working" on their armor: always striving to enhance it. You couldn't do that before AoS. Then again, it messed up crafting system. Yes.

---

You see, the amusing part about the post you just made is that there isn't one thing about the additions of powerscrolls that really benefit the game.  For everything you were trying to push off as a good addition, ended up getting immediately followed with something bad. When a game makes a change or adds things, it's suppose to be a good thing. However, things like powerscrolls are a great example of why things are so bad with UO.

Powerscrolls themselves became an issue because the only people who had them were the pvp guilds. A normal player can't go and get them because of the supremacy that goes on, especially when every single spawn has a ghost cam on it by a PK guild. So the only people who benefit from the powerscrolls are pvp guilds and pkers, and make a nice living for themselves by being able to monopolize the scroll distribution, which means all money generated from the sales of these scrolls goes directly to these guilds.
The bottom line on the topic is that they messed up the whole skill system as well as many mule skills by introducing powerscrolls, and hell, introducing trammel.

---

Atm I can only say, UO has not been better for years! Its so much fun right now, especially since factions are working again! New land, more houses, more IDOCs, new weapons, lots to explore, new skills (even crafting skills), LOTs of champions and harrowers, still a lot of RP (especially on Europa).

---

Which is why they just dumped half the dev team on their ass, right?

---

You are right! And cheating still is an issue. But they announced on stratics forums a few weeks ago (stumbled above that post) that cheating (speed hacking, duping) will be the next thing looked into.

---

Something they have been saying for years.

---

And there is so much to do besides PvP in UO. And thats coming from me, hardcore PvPer!

---

Sure, if you look past everything that is wrong with the game which is the whole cause of people leaving in the first place, I'm sure there are tons to do.

---

Agreed, but if you don't like "OSI" UO, get on a freeshard. Defiance or Gamers: Really, it's nearly the same as it was in the old times!

---

Tried that as well. I found the quality of players to be... lacking. In a world without rules, chaos ensues. Sometimes chaos isn't all that fun...

I suppose this is where I'm stuck at. I would love to see a new game come out with the best properties and features of old UO, but with new graphics that could stand up against other mmos on the market and new features that were left out of UO or never introduced. The next generation UO I suppose you could say. However, I don't see that happening anytime soon because every time a game company comes out with a game that looks like it will be what we've been waiting for, it turns out to be a huge disappointment with missing features... But with all the issues with UO as it stands, I would never pay to play it again. Spent way too many years being bent over by EA as they took my money for a broken product as it is. But that's just me, and I suppose talking about it on a forum will change nothing.

I just wonder how much longer EA will keep the game open considering the number of open accounts, or lack there of, as it continues to drop.

I just wrote a long reply to your post until my Explorer crashed ^^, so I make this short:

You have valid points, no doubts, and as I have said: I certainly liked the old UO more (and whenever I get "homesick" I just log on Defiance). But EA-UO is still worth playing. And tbh if you loved UO you simply can not play another MMO right now, as they all offer less. So play Freeshard-UO, play EA-UO or play nothing.

Concerning powerscrolls: yes, they certainly had bad effects, but at the time they were implemented, Fel pvp was already broken, factions were dead. I remember Europa at that time. It would have been better if they had fixed the old system instead of implementing something new, but you can not deny that champspawns and powerscrolls brought new pvp interest to fel. However, the major downfall was implementation of artifacts and insurance. That revamped the whole system and made crafting obsolete for a long time. Powerscrolls destroyed lots of templates, yes, but they also gave the possibility to experience something new. And today on OSI there are lots of different and valid templates. And not to forget: Factions are alive again!

About the dev team, I may be wrong, haven't followed that discussion neither here nor on stratics, but weren't they actually working on Warhammer?

However, I can say for sure that population on Europa right now is better than in beginning of 2005 when I cancelled my account last time.

I miss the old UO too, yes, and I cannot imagine what one could with that game today. Create a new UO with modern graphics and even more features than old UO and I would get a lifetime abo right away. Hell, I remember those threads on stratics, coming from people who spent lots of hours in ideas to bring even more depth to that game. They worked out new skills like gardener etc. What a waste that noone is following the steps of Garriot.

And although I love the old graphic, I would love to see the old client with modern resolution support. I play on 37'' LCD display, and its annoying to be limited to 800x600.

But as long as noone officially is working on UO 2, I stick to EA-UO or Defiance UO. However, I will be trying Eve, as it is the last (serious) sandbox MMO I haven't tried yet. If that fails too, I can state for sure: Nothing out there beats UO, even EAs UO.
 

double post, sorry.

Didn't they just can Sunsword as well? There were a bunch of posts on stratics about one of the lead devs being tossed.

I think sunsword has been gone for a long time already.

Rumour has it they fired Draconi the lead developer for the latest expansion.

Ahh that's who I was thinking of. :)