Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Baikal

You do realize that age doesnt equate to maturity, right?

I've played with 14 year olds who have been "guild assets", because they acted mature, and I've known more 30 and 40 something's who become idiots in MMO's because they are behind the facade of a computer persona.

The younger kid acting mature might be the exception, but the older folks still acting like idiots is pretty much a norm.

 

As far as maturity goes for children here is a you tube video that makes me jealous, cry and rail that I wasn't this child...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZwpjSNT620

 

Yes. Imagine - No TV, no real friends, second-to-no time for herself, strict regime and, ultimately, no childhood. That's how most of these kids are raised.

Leave the harsh things in life to adults. Let 'em simply be kids.

 

Well, I can agree that many of them don't have much of a childhood. As she is asian and as my asian girlfirend said upon looking at it "oh those crazy asians".

But you might also understand that not all kids are prone to hating a life like this. Some are rather predisposed to being a bit more serious and focused.

To that end, when I was a child of 6 I practiced an hour a day. Now, had I parents who were true stage parents I could easily see myself completely losing my childhood. But all I had to do was to practice a solid hour per day. I say a solid hour because if it was a rather unfocused day I would have to practice a little longer if I wasn't focused.

So, though there were days that my grandmother had to shout "I don't hear anything...", for the most part practicing and perfecting my lessons suited me quite well. This prepared me for later life where I would practice 4 to 6 hours a day without breaking a sweat.

 

Key word is "some" kids. I know a lot more people, who had bad experience with that kind of life, than the opposite. Ironically, most of the "young talents" don't even really go anywhere in life... Which is really tragic.

My parents only concentrated on some pre-school activities, really. They did try to get me to some sports, but they finally learned their lesson, when I nearly got my brain on the wall during a tennis lesson. My two big passions in life (Languages and writing) came to me entirely without (or I can even say, in spite) of their wishes.

However, I can relate to the whole "lost childhood" thing, since I was studying with kids two years older than me, because of, surprise-surprise, ambitions of my parents. I really loved my teachers, but hated everyone in class. Ironic, huh?

Well, I think it's important to teach children discipline and that they need to finish things they start.

So yes, some children like myself were/are predisposed to a more focused lifestyle and I would gather as you have indicated that most are not.

But I do think it's important to have children stick with things for a bit. For instance, in my part of the family, we could do/try anything we'd like but the standard mantra was "you have to do it for a year so think about it very hard".

Meaning, if I wanted to play the trumpet or do a sport, I could do it but I would have to do it for an entire year, no if's and's or but's. I think that discipline needs to be taught and that children need to learn consequences to their actions. This might be old school but in the scheme of things I'm just old enough to have been ensconced in "old school".

The other side of the family could start and stop anyting they liked at any time they liked. But the outcome was that not one of them ever mastered anything.

still, finding a child's natural proclivities seems a more sensible way to go and that parents should notice these things and encourage them. I can easily agree with that. I suppose I've seen just one too many young students who basically sit their and have done none of their lessons and are essentially wasting their time, the teacher's time and their parents money.

Getting back on topic I do really believe that young people should not be on the internet without some supervision from the parents. And I'm talking "young" not teenagers who, though are very young in my eyes are quickly becoming adults as oposed to young kids who are quickly becoming some semblance of people. Too many predators on line to leave them alone. And heck, even teens might need supervision considering some of the horror stories I read about predators luring them into dangerous situations.

Originally posted by Dave3216

Im a 33yo male with a young daughter who im trying to get into gaming. I have been gaming for over 20 years and can tell you online gaming and communities have gone down in quality at an exceptionally fast rate. Personally i blame the WOW generation where parents are paying for kids subs and letting them loose on people with no supervision. I am very reluctant to let my daughter get into mmos and even im fed up with chats and interactivity with morons online and even on forums. So i thought about  making servers age based. So young kids can play together and do what they do and us old farts can have our communities and our interactivity at an adult level. What do you guys think? Also developers could when adding content taylor it to the different server ages so adults can get the gory sexual stuff and the kids can have fluffy bunnies and its all still one game offering different experiences to a larger audience.

Personally i reckon age based servers would be a BAD move,  segregation like that is not needed really.  Ive played with plenty of guilds where young rudeass kids have joined and over the months have turned into really good people.  Being able to influence the 'new generation' with good attitudes, morals, whatever is way better than just dropping them all on their own servers.  Was it 'Lord of the Flies'? that book..don't remember.

Age based servers would cost a ton of money to keep moderated and these days companies for the most part cannot afford to have online baby-sitters for servers 24/7.  You would have to have them for each age group, both to stop kids thiefing their parents SSN and to stop Pedo's, cult leaders from joining the little kiddies servers.

Whatever game first brought in 'General Chat' zone/city wide i blame lol.  Wasn't there just 2 types of chat in UO? local and guild maybe more but no general chat where people can spam crap and bait others to join easier than if they could just in local. Think how easy it would be to avoid the general chat trolls if they all had to hang out in the same spot to tell each other chuck norris jokes.

Mostly the community degeneration is more to that it is a NEW generation playing compared to us over 30 (obviously not the entire generation is shallow/rude/lame) but generations do have differences on a broad scale and sometimes they don't mesh as well as people of the same generation.

I don't need sexual, gory stuff to have fun in a game, if all a game had was fluffy bunnies and kitties but actually was fun to play then i would.  If your trying to get a good game for your daughter to play wouldn't it be EVEN better to be able to play with her and show her playing with Dad rocks and isn't lame?

Like others mentioned, there are some decent games out there that are 'kid friendly' and you can have fun even if you are older.

Hello Kitty Online, Wizard 101, Free Realms are all well controlled (well they were when i tried them last) and i remember especially anyone trying to be an ass or nasty in Hello Kitty would be shot down really quick.  There was a huge age/sex range playing during Founders beta for HKO also and it gelled really well.  I would look at that game or the other 2 for your daughter for now.   She can do the raiding/hardcore pvp stuff in like 5 years :P

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Originally posted by pencilrick
I think a very simple solution to an age-based server is to charge $5 more per month and call it an RP server (and have the gm's actually enforce RP, at least the naming standards).  Young people generally have less free cash on hand and would likely shy away from servers that charged extra.

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thats a good idea tbh.

It isn't really the children in games that are the problem, most asshats that I run into are in the 20-35 crowd.

Guess having raised 3 myself I don't fear them as much as other people seem to.

BTW, my son who is 17 and has been playing these games for 9 years now is a terrrific raid leader and I let him run all our groups.  People friend us (well him anyways) after almsot every run for a job well done.

You know I don't think it's the maturity of kids type thing but surely there should be more safeguarding of kids, or to stop grooming type thing.

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

I think if you introduce her to gaming and see if she enjoys it, if not then let her play with barbie or what not. When you said "trying to get her into gaming" (although it may or may not be your intention) but it comes across as you are forcing her too.

Either way just let her see if she enjoys it.

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Originally posted by Ceridith

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Originally posted by Baikal
You do realize that age doesnt equate to maturity, right?

I've played with 14 year olds who have been "guild assets", because they acted mature, and I've known more 30 and 40 something's who become idiots in MMO's because they are behind the facade of a computer persona.

The younger kid acting mature might be the exception, but the older folks still acting like idiots is pretty much a norm.

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Age doesn't dictate maturity, but it does tend to influence it. yes you can have kids that are more mature than adults, and adults that are immature, but those are the exceptions. Generally kids are less mature and adults are more mature.

And yes, anonymity and lack of consequence can cause some people to behave like douches, but if someone's behavior degrades when there is no consequence, then it really shows just how immature they really are. They're just good at pretending to be mature when they have to.

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Of course it influences it, but it's only one influence among many, and it probably isnt even the most important. Based on my life experiences, both playing games, and outside, I dont think I'd say it is an exception at all. There is definitely truth to the dictum that "age is just a number."

Are more adults mature? Absolutely, but it doesnt change that fact that milage varies, and it certainly isnt an absolute.

Originally posted by VaultFairy

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

 

I think if you introduce her to gaming and see if she enjoys it, if not then let her play with barbie or what not. When you said "trying to get her into gaming" (although it may or may not be your intention) but it comes across as you are forcing her too.

 

Either way just let her see if she enjoys it.

LOL no im not tying her to a chair and holding here eye lids open, she is a single player nut as i was at 13. I just dont like the online communities and general player base anymore. Sometimes it feels like your baby sitting someone elses kids. I just want a place she can try online gaming thats good for her.

Age means nothing to me, I would rather have maturity based servers.

Older doesn't always mean mentally  stable, and young doesn't always mean immaturity.

Well, I think a lot of the trash you don't like would still be on the age restricted servers.  Adults are plenty capable of acting like idiots on the net.

I'd agree with that.

Like it's been said, there are quite a few online games geared toward kids.  My son currently plays Wizard 101 and loves it.  Most of the chat is the same as they would have with friends at school (yes I supervise his gaming).  I even get on and play with him and his friends sometimes.  Before he started playing Wiz 101 he really wanted to play WoW so I let him make a toon and level it with minimal help from me (I was always sitting with him when he played though).  I made him read all his quests out loud before he could accept them (to help his reading).  He mainly wanted to PvP so once he got high enough he played some battlegrounds and actually did quite well, especially since he was 8 at the time (I made sure he was geared to the teeth).  I don't see an issue with letting kids play if they want.  Their interest doesn't last but so long.  My son quit playing WoW once baseball season started and never bothered playing again.  I do say if you don't have time to supervise then they shouldn't play but minimal supervision is needed for Wiz 101.  I just look over and check up on him every now and again while I'm playing Fallen Earth.      

I think it is unreasonable to ask to control a a whole group of individuals with anonymity and some who have different upbringing and/or "bad" parenting.

If what you want is a game that can monitor and "parent" the population then you might need to look at some other recreation for her. Or simply teach her how to fend for herself when she is online.

To help lighten the ammount of dickwads online though you could always make sure to sign her up to all the "ROLEPLAY" servers due to the nature of general population that go to those (+ they are sometimes monitored by GMs for bad non-RP behavior).

• Supervision
• Education
• Moderation

Those are what you need to practice to help deter negative effects of online gaming/socializing on your daughter. I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old that both enjoy WoW and net socializing, they get 2 hours a day and are well informed by my wife and I with how to conduct themselves. And commonsense is a must for helicopter parents.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

 

Why not? Kids are never young enough to be exposed to it, not if they can play. Seriously, I've learned my first swearword at age 6, but only got, what it means at age 15. Not a big difference.

With that said, I say drop her unto the normal server. The sooner tshe learns to filter out the asshats, the better.

 

Becasue videogames it's not something that needs an effort to do, it's a pass time with very few benefitsm and anyway she will play videogames if she wants to. Parents are supposed to get their sons and daughters into important fulfilling things, like music, languages, sports, visiting places, etc etc...

 

Music and sports are pass times, as well. And, no offense, but I don't believe parents should force sports/music down their kid's throat. Only a handful of them actually become anything, the rest have broken childhoods/teenage years, few minutes near the spotlight, early retirrment and ridculous pension. At least, that's how it usually works in Russia.

Now, I don't mind kids doing sports/music (and actually would encourage them to learn languages, especially English, if they're not native), but kids and teenagers need to be... Well, kids and teenagers. It's one of the best parts of life and not to experience it fully can lead to serious regrets later on.

 

P.S. Games are probably the youngest form of art. MMOs, if supervised, by an adult, to explain some things, can provide some great lessons in life, the first of which is a good use of "ignore' button.

Wow... who said forcing anything down kid's throats? So if I mention music, it's forcing the kids, but gaming then it's not, it's something done for the best of the kids.

Please.

Also, becoming a star is absolutely not the issue, it's having something that will accompany the kid all his/her life, like knowing to play an instrument, being able to communicate in other languages, being able to practice a sport, and all this at not a professional level obviously.

About videogames, if she likes them, then yes, help her find the best options and supervise. But trying to get her into playing videogames? That's simply nonsense, and irresponsible, chances are more harm will come than good.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

 

Why not? Kids are never young enough to be exposed to it, not if they can play. Seriously, I've learned my first swearword at age 6, but only got, what it means at age 15. Not a big difference.

With that said, I say drop her unto the normal server. The sooner tshe learns to filter out the asshats, the better.

lmao you should be teacher her how to diet and look hot so she gets a husband

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

 

Why not? Kids are never young enough to be exposed to it, not if they can play. Seriously, I've learned my first swearword at age 6, but only got, what it means at age 15. Not a big difference.

With that said, I say drop her unto the normal server. The sooner tshe learns to filter out the asshats, the better.

 

Becasue videogames it's not something that needs an effort to do, it's a pass time with very few benefitsm and anyway she will play videogames if she wants to. Parents are supposed to get their sons and daughters into important fulfilling things, like music, languages, sports, visiting places, etc etc...

 

Music and sports are pass times, as well. And, no offense, but I don't believe parents should force sports/music down their kid's throat. Only a handful of them actually become anything, the rest have broken childhoods/teenage years, few minutes near the spotlight, early retirrment and ridculous pension. At least, that's how it usually works in Russia.

Now, I don't mind kids doing sports/music (and actually would encourage them to learn languages, especially English, if they're not native), but kids and teenagers need to be... Well, kids and teenagers. It's one of the best parts of life and not to experience it fully can lead to serious regrets later on.

 

P.S. Games are probably the youngest form of art. MMOs, if supervised, by an adult, to explain some things, can provide some great lessons in life, the first of which is a good use of "ignore' button.

 

Wow... who said forcing anything down kid's throats? So if I mention music, it's forcing the kids, but gaming then it's not, it's something done for the best of the kids.

Please.

Also, becoming a star is absolutely not the issue, it's having something that will accompany the kid all his/her life, like knowing to play an instrument, being able to communicate in other languages, being able to practice a sport, and all this at not a professional level obviously.

About videogames, if she likes them, then yes, help her find the best options and supervise. But trying to get her into playing videogames? That's simply nonsense, and irresponsible, chances are more harm will come than good.

I apologize. I really overreacted here and thinking back at it now.. Yeah, I'm not a parent, why the hell am I talking about a subject like that?

I get your point, but... I still think they should start learning those things in their early teenage years, when they are capable of making their own decisions, not when the parents have a say in everything.

About "Trying to get into videogames"... Can be an interesting subject, actually. If I had a kid, I would really love to show him some of the games I adore. Some of the more intelligent ones, like, say, Heroes of Might and Magic. The game is really hard to get into and kids will be even more spoiled by pretty grapics, than we are. It's like showing your kid an old movie, or giving them older books to read - it might give them a whole ne perspective on the medium, if only they can stop judging them "by the cover".

MMORPGs, however... Yeah, you're probably right.

Originally posted by GetViolated

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by altairzq

Why on earth are you trying to get your young daughter into gaming?

 

Why not? Kids are never young enough to be exposed to it, not if they can play. Seriously, I've learned my first swearword at age 6, but only got, what it means at age 15. Not a big difference.

With that said, I say drop her unto the normal server. The sooner tshe learns to filter out the asshats, the better.

 

lmao you should be teacher her how to diet and look hot so she gets a husband

Great. I finally have an excuse to completely ignore your opinion on these forums.