It's tempting to play with someone else's intellectual property. This week, Victor Wachter examines this trend in MMOs.

Although this week's column talks about some of the challenges inherent to developing an MMORPG from a an existing license, I don't mean to seem cynical about them. I think that the ability to step into a world you've grown to know and love as a fan is awesome. I've worked on a several licenses and been near a few more. Each time, my inner geek was all a twitter in spite of the obstacles.

And, oh they've had their challenges. Middle Earth Online went into development at Sierra in 1998. It took nine years and a change of developer for Tolkien's world to finally emerge as Lord of the Rings Online. The Marvel Comics license has been through at least three developers and two publishers officially, and several more unofficially. Contention exists even among the creators as to whether or not StarGate Worlds will ever ship. And it seems like years since the Firefly MMORPG was announced, but since then FOX has said they'd rather see a Buffy game.

Read it all here.

An MMO with Hannah Montana on the box cover? Now that I'd like to see :)

Anyway, the only licensed MMO that's really successful currently is Lord of the Rings Online, mostly becuase it stayed amazing close to the licensed IP in the beginning of its life-cycle while delivering all the standard MMO gameplay in a pretty much flawless manner.

Star Wars Galaxies (even pre-NGE) had its shortcomings, mostly because Raph Koster's vision of SWG was more like an Uncle Owen MMO than any iconic Star Wars trappings. It is a great license, but the gameplay wasn't where it was supposed to be.

With a great license comes great responsibility...

Originally posted by idol2000

An MMO with Hannah Montana on the box cover? Now that I'd like to see :)

Star Wars Galaxies (even pre-NGE) had its shortcomings, mostly because Raph Koster's vision of SWG was more like an Uncle Owen MMO than any iconic Star Wars trappings. It is a great license, but the gameplay wasn't where it was supposed to be.

I didn't talk much about SWG because, frankly, what's left to say? I always told people that even Luke wanted to quit that game at the start of the first movie ;)

Sporke. Go make sure they do Planetside 2 right.

An MMO tied to an established IP is much easier to present to investors, (people who want to gamble with their money, but don't want to take much of a risk) thus gaining needed resources to develop.

Other than that I can't see a reason for it. It constrains the devs, sets up unrealistic and impossible to satisfy expectations in the players, and while the temptation to play in a world whose IP i'm familiar with is compelling, how long does that interest last? I mean, I already know the story.

There is a huge flaw in a strategy that aims to attract people who won't be satisfied and quickly bored.

IP's are a total waste of time, money and resources.

I point to any MMO based on one as evidence....and yet we will get IP after IP and train wreck after train wreck.

Originally posted by dhayes68

An MMO tied to an established IP is much easier to present to investors, (people who want to gamble with their money, but don't want to take much of a risk) thus gaining needed resources to develop.

Other than that I can't see a reason for it. It constrains the devs, sets up unrealistic and impossible to satisfy expectations in the players, and while the temptation to play in a world whose IP i'm familiar with is compelling, how long does that interest last? I mean, I already know the story.

There is a huge flaw in a strategy that aims to attract people who won't be satisfied and quickly bored.

 

agree with this totally. Everyone has there own vision of what a star trek, star wars or stargate MMO would be like and there will always be people disapointed. Alot of these Licenses just dont work with the holy trinity mmo design of tank, healer and dps and I always leave them feeling they are just a shell of what I thought they would be. 

I would much rather see MMO developers work from there own IP, the leash is released and they are free to actually focus on the game and not the legal details of a licensed IP.

This doesnt just go for movie or book conversions, just look at the mess the Fallout MMO IP has become.

No die hard fan will ever be happy with an MMO of the world they love and envision. So the only people you please are the casual fans who know of the world or have seen a movie or show about the world and thought it was cool, but they never desired to dig deep into the lore of the world. That alone makes the decision strange.

A developer picks a world that is known, has to be limited by the controller of the IP on what they can and can't put in a game. They anger different die hard fans who wanted this to be like that. So they get a ton of headaches with out much gain.

AoC was an IP.

Matrix was an IP.

LotRO was an IP.

SWG was an IP.

WoW wasn't (I agree with you that something based off of other games isn't the same because people have alreay interacted with the world and know what to expect)

EQ wasn't.

Aion wasn't

EvE wasn't

UO wasn't

AC wasn't

Now look at the track record. Matrix is gone and never did well. AoC sold well but then everyone quit. SWG launched well for what MMOs were bringing in at the time and did fairly well until NGE, but has also survived to today. LotRO has showed consistent slow growth and done well overall and is listed as anywhere from 2nd to 4th on the most western subs list.

UO, AC, EQ all did well and have been running for over a decade with continual profit. WoW came on the scene and brought sub numbers to a ridiculous new high. EvE released small and has consistently grown much in the fashion of LotRO. Aion is the only release in the last 1-2 years that seems to actually be holding on to a lot of it's players.

If you look at the whole history of MMOs, there is FAR more success with new worlds or game IPs turned into MMOs then there is with non-game MMOs turned MMO. So why do companies keep focusing on these known non-game MMOs thinking it will be where the money is at? It is annoying and it always limits the game play making the game less fun overall.

The only way an MMO based on a license will work is if it breaks off from the story arch of the license and creates its own new rules and story lines.  Kind of like Stargate Atlantis tried to do or for an older example what Beast Wars did with the Transformer's story line.  Each had characters similar to the license but then it also had a lot of things totally new and unique to the new story line.  It would allow writers to have the freedom they need to be creative and it would allow players to discover totally new things without them expecting to experience what they experienced with the previous form of the license.

Originally posted by Baltizaar

The only way an MMO based on a license will work is if it breaks off from the story arch of the license and creates its own new rules and story lines.  Kind of like Stargate Atlantis tried to do or for an older example what Beast Wars did with the Transformer's story line.  Each had characters similar to the license but then it also had a lot of things totally new and unique to the new story line.  It would allow writers to have the freedom they need to be creative and it would allow players to discover totally new things without them expecting to experience what they experienced with the previous form of the license.

I agree with this completely. One of the reasons I think SWG ended up not doing well (besides the NGE) was that is was in a timeframe that we all knew and most of us loved. That set them up for failure because the devs never really had a chance to get it right. I hold out hope for The Old Republic strictly because it's in a timeframe that we don't really know much about and the devs are able to flesh out that story themselves. Yes, there's been things written about that timeframe but it's scarce. I'm hoping this will be the one that will prove the exception to the rule about Liscensed MMOs.

Originally posted by guido505

Originally posted by Baltizaar

The only way an MMO based on a license will work is if it breaks off from the story arch of the license and creates its own new rules and story lines.  Kind of like Stargate Atlantis tried to do or for an older example what Beast Wars did with the Transformer's story line.  Each had characters similar to the license but then it also had a lot of things totally new and unique to the new story line.  It would allow writers to have the freedom they need to be creative and it would allow players to discover totally new things without them expecting to experience what they experienced with the previous form of the license.

 I agree with this completely. One of the reasons I think SWG ended up not doing well (besides the NGE) was that is was in a timeframe that we all knew and most of us loved. That set them up for failure because the devs never really had a chance to get it right. I hold out hope for The Old Republic strictly because it's in a timeframe that we don't really know much about and the devs are able to flesh out that story themselves. Yes, there's been things written about that timeframe but it's scarce. I'm hoping this will be the one that will prove the exception to the rule about Liscensed MMOs.

I agree as well. For example, I think LoTRO is a great game, but due to it being constrained within the boundaries of the storyline, (a storyline I'm oh so familiar with I might add) I got bored in a couple of months.  Had LoTRO taken place at the end of the storyline of the books, using the storyline as a launching point rather than a treadmill, being much more openended, I probably would have been hooked.

I also agree, that making an mmo of an IP you limit your develpment right off the bat.   The reason why is timeframe, for instance lotro.  You already know the begining and the end.  So lotro will be luck to still be around in 2012 thats when they have the license too.   Star wars is the same way you have lore and timeframe limits set by the books thus going back 4000 years in the past.   You have other mmo's as well that Star trek your limited by lore and die hard fans.

So setting yourself up in a timeframe or lore constraint you already took out 50% of your freedom.  The only limits after that are the dev teams and the managment messing with the dev team.

IP's and MMO's don't mix. Dev's try to please tons of fans who each have their own idea of how the IP world should look and feel.  You end up with a watered down version of the IP that pisses off everyone, IP fans and MMO players alike. SWG, Matrix, LOTRO, AOC all should be mega hits with its fan bases but each one has turned into a disater shortly after launch. Too much placating in trying to please everyone and the game ends in a flop.

The relationship of the Licensor to the developer is of real interest to me.  With SWG, it seems  to me Lucas Arts is so desperate to promote thier current projects that it takes primary developement of SWG's timeframe.  So much Prequel and now Clone Wars content is dumped into SWG rather than created content relvent to the classic trilogy.  The only thing players of SWG can be happy with is the game is getting content still.

In referance to unrealistic expectations, when a developer approaches a licensor to pitch a MMO today there is one issue I have.  Undoubtablly, they will use the WOW card to push thier point.  "WOW has 11 million subscriptions.  Think how much money you will be taking in on your franchise if you get just a quarter of that."  I believe this is where Paramount is with Star Trek.  This is also why they are cracking the whip on Cryptic for STO to release Feb 2.  They invested and are needing the return on thier investment.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

No die hard fan will ever be happy with an MMO of the world they love and envision. So the only people you please are the casual fans who know of the world or have seen a movie or show about the world and thought it was cool, but they never desired to dig deep into the lore of the world. That alone makes the decision strange.

 

A developer picks a world that is known, has to be limited by the controller of the IP on what they can and can't put in a game. They anger different die hard fans who wanted this to be like that. So they get a ton of headaches with out much gain.

 

AoC was an IP.

Matrix was an IP.

LotRO was an IP.

SWG was an IP.

WoW wasn't (I agree with you that something based off of other games isn't the same because people have alreay interacted with the world and know what to expect)

EQ wasn't.

Aion wasn't

EvE wasn't

UO wasn't

AC wasn't

Now look at the track record. Matrix is gone and never did well. AoC sold well but then everyone quit. SWG launched well for what MMOs were bringing in at the time and did fairly well until NGE, but has also survived to today. LotRO has showed consistent slow growth and done well overall and is listed as anywhere from 2nd to 4th on the most western subs list.

 

UO, AC, EQ all did well and have been running for over a decade with continual profit. WoW came on the scene and brought sub numbers to a ridiculous new high. EvE released small and has consistently grown much in the fashion of LotRO. Aion is the only release in the last 1-2 years that seems to actually be holding on to a lot of it's players.

 

If you look at the whole history of MMOs, there is FAR more success with new worlds or game IPs turned into MMOs then there is with non-game MMOs turned MMO. So why do companies keep focusing on these known non-game MMOs thinking it will be where the money is at? It is annoying and it always limits the game play making the game less fun overall.

That's a bit of a selective list, though.

Horizons wasn't an IP.

Shadowbane wasn't an IP.

Vanguard wasn't an IP.

Tabula Rasa wasn't an IP.

Auto Assault wasn't an IP.

See where I'm going? Some games succeed, a lot more fail (or at least fail to thrive). Your list was pretty much the full list of major licensed MMOs that have made it to launch day so far. The score is one doing pretty well (LotRO), one that launched massively then fizzled (AoC), one that was pretty solidly in the top tier for a while then committed seppuku with a couple of major patches (SWG), and one that was on life support pretty much from day one (Matrix Online). That's 50% prospering at least until the devs screwed up big time, and is as good a record as non-licensed MMOs can show.

I don't think a licence is either a guarantee of success or a mark of doom. What matters is if the game is actually any good :)

Originally posted by Dana
In discussing the successes and failures of Marvel Comics movies, Stan Lee once remarked that the ones that miss are those that don't dig into the heart of what is special and unique about the property.

Based on that criteria, Star Trek Online is doomed then. It only has a tenuous connection to the Star Trek universe at best, and it seems that Cryptic has attempted to strip as many Star Trek elements from the game as possible in an attempt to appeal to the "non-Trek fan" average MMO gamer.

I'm not happy about that fact. :(

Movie and TV based games almost always suck.

I don't see an MMO based on these IPs doing well either.  Who wants to be Red Shirt #12 or village peon #5?  Most will want to be one of the main characters - Darth Vader (or Luke), Gandolf (or Saruman), Captain Picard (or Kirk), Neo (or Morpheus), etc.  Players can only stomach so many mis-spellings of Vadderrrrr, and no player will be allowed to be Darth Vader anyway.

Originally posted by battleaxe

Movie and TV based games almost always suck.

I don't see an MMO based on these IPs doing well either.  Who wants to be Red Shirt #12 or village peon #5?  Most will want to be one of the main characters - Darth Vader (or Luke), Gandolf (or Saruman), Captain Picard (or Kirk), Neo (or Morpheus), etc.  Players can only stomach so many mis-spellings of Vadderrrrr, and no player will be allowed to be Darth Vader anyway.

Actually you never played swg then we had several folks who role played being dark sith lords, and a couple who actually had folks convinced they were the right hand man to dearth vader.   Now as far as being a red shirt on kirks crew yea nobody wants that instat death on beam down.

Originally posted by Ulfric_Draka

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

No die hard fan will ever be happy with an MMO of the world they love and envision. So the only people you please are the casual fans who know of the world or have seen a movie or show about the world and thought it was cool, but they never desired to dig deep into the lore of the world. That alone makes the decision strange.

 

A developer picks a world that is known, has to be limited by the controller of the IP on what they can and can't put in a game. They anger different die hard fans who wanted this to be like that. So they get a ton of headaches with out much gain.

 

AoC was an IP.

Matrix was an IP.

LotRO was an IP.

SWG was an IP.

WoW wasn't (I agree with you that something based off of other games isn't the same because people have alreay interacted with the world and know what to expect)

EQ wasn't.

Aion wasn't

EvE wasn't

UO wasn't

AC wasn't

Now look at the track record. Matrix is gone and never did well. AoC sold well but then everyone quit. SWG launched well for what MMOs were bringing in at the time and did fairly well until NGE, but has also survived to today. LotRO has showed consistent slow growth and done well overall and is listed as anywhere from 2nd to 4th on the most western subs list.

 

UO, AC, EQ all did well and have been running for over a decade with continual profit. WoW came on the scene and brought sub numbers to a ridiculous new high. EvE released small and has consistently grown much in the fashion of LotRO. Aion is the only release in the last 1-2 years that seems to actually be holding on to a lot of it's players.

 

If you look at the whole history of MMOs, there is FAR more success with new worlds or game IPs turned into MMOs then there is with non-game MMOs turned MMO. So why do companies keep focusing on these known non-game MMOs thinking it will be where the money is at? It is annoying and it always limits the game play making the game less fun overall.

 

That's a bit of a selective list, though.

Horizons wasn't an IP.

Shadowbane wasn't an IP.

Vanguard wasn't an IP.

Tabula Rasa wasn't an IP.

Auto Assault wasn't an IP.

See where I'm going? Some games succeed, a lot more fail (or at least fail to thrive). Your list was pretty much the full list of major licensed MMOs that have made it to launch day so far. The score is one doing pretty well (LotRO), one that launched massively then fizzled (AoC), one that was pretty solidly in the top tier for a while then committed seppuku with a couple of major patches (SWG), and one that was on life support pretty much from day one (Matrix Online). That's 50% prospering at least until the devs screwed up big time, and is as good a record as non-licensed MMOs can show.

I don't think a licence is either a guarantee of success or a mark of doom. What matters is if the game is actually any good :)

Yes all types of games can fail, but now make a complete list of MMOs that have done well and see how many of them are non game IPs turned MMO that have done well. The successes at this point boil down to SWG and LotRO that is pretty much it. But you can make a long list of original IP/game IP that became MMOs and are doing well.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Ulfric_Draka

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

No die hard fan will ever be happy with an MMO of the world they love and envision. So the only people you please are the casual fans who know of the world or have seen a movie or show about the world and thought it was cool, but they never desired to dig deep into the lore of the world. That alone makes the decision strange.

 

A developer picks a world that is known, has to be limited by the controller of the IP on what they can and can't put in a game. They anger different die hard fans who wanted this to be like that. So they get a ton of headaches with out much gain.

 

AoC was an IP.

Matrix was an IP.

LotRO was an IP.

SWG was an IP.

WoW wasn't (I agree with you that something based off of other games isn't the same because people have alreay interacted with the world and know what to expect)

EQ wasn't.

Aion wasn't

EvE wasn't

UO wasn't

AC wasn't

Now look at the track record. Matrix is gone and never did well. AoC sold well but then everyone quit. SWG launched well for what MMOs were bringing in at the time and did fairly well until NGE, but has also survived to today. LotRO has showed consistent slow growth and done well overall and is listed as anywhere from 2nd to 4th on the most western subs list.

 

UO, AC, EQ all did well and have been running for over a decade with continual profit. WoW came on the scene and brought sub numbers to a ridiculous new high. EvE released small and has consistently grown much in the fashion of LotRO. Aion is the only release in the last 1-2 years that seems to actually be holding on to a lot of it's players.

 

If you look at the whole history of MMOs, there is FAR more success with new worlds or game IPs turned into MMOs then there is with non-game MMOs turned MMO. So why do companies keep focusing on these known non-game MMOs thinking it will be where the money is at? It is annoying and it always limits the game play making the game less fun overall.

 

That's a bit of a selective list, though.

Horizons wasn't an IP.

Shadowbane wasn't an IP.

Vanguard wasn't an IP.

Tabula Rasa wasn't an IP.

Auto Assault wasn't an IP.

See where I'm going? Some games succeed, a lot more fail (or at least fail to thrive). Your list was pretty much the full list of major licensed MMOs that have made it to launch day so far. The score is one doing pretty well (LotRO), one that launched massively then fizzled (AoC), one that was pretty solidly in the top tier for a while then committed seppuku with a couple of major patches (SWG), and one that was on life support pretty much from day one (Matrix Online). That's 50% prospering at least until the devs screwed up big time, and is as good a record as non-licensed MMOs can show.

I don't think a licence is either a guarantee of success or a mark of doom. What matters is if the game is actually any good :)

 

Yes all types of games can fail, but now make a complete list of MMOs that have done well and see how many of them are non game IPs turned MMO that have done well. The successes at this point boil down to SWG and LotRO that is pretty much it. But you can make a long list of original IP/game IP that became MMOs and are doing well.

Your definition of "doing well" appears to be maleable depending on which point of view you're trying to make.  UO and AC, while influential in MMO history, were not even EQ-like successes even at their height, let alone something greater.

I agree that the use of an IP is a double-edged sword, but there have been plusses and minuses evident in games that have used other people's IP.

DAOC is the only one that did it the smart way - they used one of the most recognizable IPs in existence, and didn't have to pay a dime for it, nor did they have to ask for anyone's permission.

This leads me to a question: One of THE most hotly anticipated MMO titles right now is SW:TOR.  We've even heard the "WoW-killer" term used from time to time.  Does the use of Lucas' IP doom it from the start?