A simple yet important question is explored in the latest edition of Richard Aihoshi's weekly MMORPG.com column.

Quite a while ago now- perhaps as far back as eight to 10 years - I conducted a completely informal little survey in which I asked developers with experience working on at least one MMOG whether they felt the titles of that time were as much fun as they could or should be. The answers were preponderantly negative. This was as expected. I'd have been gravely disappointed if people had thought there wasn't significant room for improvement.

Flashing forward to the present, the industry has definitely progressed in this regard. However, as you can gather from today's column heading, I'm not entirely happy with the extent that has actually been achieved. Of course, this begs the question "Why not?" I'm not presumptuous enough to suggest or even think I can provide a definitive answer, but I do have a few thoughts I'm willing to offer up for consideration.

Read it all here.

Absolutely agree about 'rinse repeat', or as others call it... grinding. Number 1 killer of fun in MMO's these days (IMO).

Also:

"There has also been too much reliance placed on advancement as a reward in and of itself."

I COMPLETELY WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE! 100%

Although, I'm betting we'd be the minority.
 

While the general topic of this article is probably completely valid, some of the actual talking points seem rather odd and misplaced. Are we really having an issue with MMOGs not being exciting enough in the first "10 minutes" or hour, or whenever? I confess that strikes me as a very typical sentiment of the "instant gratification" crowd. Its like complaining about books because I still have to read past page 2, or movies if I'm not spellbound within the first 2-3 minutes.

As for the repetitive grind in MMOGs, I'm guessing there have been hundreds of threads on the forums on this topic over the past months, and like it or hate it, most of us understand why the grind exists. Suffice it to say, if someone comes up with a way to generate endless, truly unique, non repetitive content for MMOs, I'm sure the developers will be lining up to hire you. I strongly disagree with the idea that the leveling curve in most games is too steep, however.  Shorten the leveling curve, and it simply means you are replacing repetitive grinding of early/midgame content with repetitve grinding of endgame content.

Just my two cents....

Also, why is it that everytime we start a mmo our character stands quietly and serenely in a utopian save haven? heres a stick, go whack some boars and you're on your way. Why cant we start the game with sturdy looking armour and weapons (even if they are aesthetical only) and are thrown right into a epic battle surrounded by dozens or hundreds of soldiers (real PCs or NPCs) where survival is not guaranteed?

so, you start your character, hes about 20-25 years old, hes wearing either his pajamas or the more usual 'ive been stranded on a desert island for 10 years' garbs. What?

Basically all Im saying is, why cant we start in the middle of the action and take things from there?

 repetitive and grindy. As has been said, the rewards for time played is stuff. You do the same thing over and over again for stuff. 

Each encounter should be fun. Fun enough to run repeatedly. You shouldn't have to force yourself to do something over and over again to get gear just to have access to other things you have to run over and over again.

Gear should be an after thought. The encounter itself should be the main reward.

Originally posted by archer75

 repetitive and grindy. As has been said, the rewards for time played is stuff. You do the same thing over and over again for stuff. 

Each encounter should be fun. Fun enough to run repeatedly. You shouldn't have to force yourself to do something over and over again to get gear just to have access to other things you have to run over and over again.

Gear should be an after thought. The encounter itself should be the main reward.

THIS!!!

The perfect MMO in my mind is about player intereaction.

One of the funnest times I had in an MMO was when I rolled a toon in SWG named "random homeless guy" and panhandled outside of the Mos Eisley Spaceport. Had a great time. Didn't do any quests, fire any weapons etc. But man, did that toon attract human intereaction (both positive and negative). That was a fun experience.

Problem is, developers can't package that kind of playstyle. It's not tangeable, whereas Epic Armor is.

You want games MMO's to appeal to people with an attention span of only 10 minutes? And you wonder why the quality of games has been steadily decreasing for the last 5 year?

Seriously, while I can see the need for a game catering to pre-teens to cater to this kind of short attention span, I prefer something more in depth, something that takes time to build. Not every second of my gameplay needs to be action filled and full of instant gratification. You also need time to become involved in the worlds history, become attacted to its NPC's, to explore the world and to make friends. Anything less and the game simply will not hold the players attention once they hit level cap.

As for the experiance curves being to steep, in my opinion the exact opposite is true, xp is way to fast and easy in most games. In recent MMO's the leveling to stupid fast. People blow through content so fast they barely stop to take notice of the world or the other players. Hell, half the MMO's releasing these days have people at level cap before their free month expires.

With xp so rapid, why should anyone bother stopping to gear up, to make friends before end game, or to develope the type of community that stops to help people on the way. Many of the best experiance people recall from EQ were not about maximizing xp gain, it was about going to some deep dark dungeon for that rare piece of gear that you would treasure for the next 10 levels (which would take you a couple of months to get). It was also about helping your guildmates, about exploring new places (and there were tons of zones to progress in, not just one or two per tier), and about finding and completing obscure quests. You actaully had to talk to NPC's to find those quests. Some of them involved criss crossing the entire world several times, and for little to no xp, but you did them anyways because those magic boots let you run a little faster.

I would like to see a new game where it actually took the players 6 months to a year to hit level cap, where a good piece of gear might last a few months before you outleveled it, and where the focus was on the journey, not the destination.

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

I would like to see a new game where it actually took the players 6 months to a year to hit level cap, where a good piece of gear might last a few months before you outleveled it, and where the focus was on the journey, not the destination.

I had the same thought. Though, I see few problems with this type of ruleset:

- When you go MIA for a relatively long time span, you'll have a hard time catching up with your buddies, and may just have to find new buddies to move on into your journey.

- When a player reaches the top, especially when the first crowd reaches it, it is likely those players are hardcore gamers and are going to require more and more end-level content in order to keep having fun.

But I agree, a lot of titles are focusing way too much on end game and forget to update 'the journey'.

I disagree completely. An MMO should not be "work". Why does it need to take forever? Why do I need to forced to experience all the content on one toon? I can level crazy fast in wow and blow through tons of content. However i've leveled multiple toons. Most of us have. We've seen all the content prior to the cap and can still level stupid fast. I'd rather see all the content on multiple characters then be forced to see it all on one. And then have to do the exact same content again while leveling my next alt.

It has nothing to do with short attention spans. It has nothing to do with being a teenager. I'm in my 30's. I have a mortgage, job, wife and kids. I don't have the kind of time some of you do to put in the game. Nor do I have the willpower. I just want to be able to log in when I feel like it and play the game and have fun. That's it.

It has to do with fun. A game shouldn't have to be work. And it shouldn't have to take forever. But you should be able to fire it up and have fun. That doesn't mean it has to be simple and full of easy hand outs. But it doesn't need to be grindy. It doesn't have to require and enormous amount of time commitment to get that gear just so you can play with your friends.

There are better ways. 

I think the changing (mainstreaming) playerbase has something to do with the rise of grind/gear/level model.  It's not just ADD kids who want a fast cookie for their 10 minutes.  It's also the 30-year-old stay-at-home mom and the 45-year-old attorney on hobby time.  People are busy.  Lives are complex.  Most RL "projects" take weeks, months, years to unfold.  I think WoW has conquered such a wide demographic of players because it gives you a quick reward.  You get to check things off a list quickly and feel accomplishment.  ("Kill 10 boars.  Done!  Kill 12 bears.  Done!  Level!")  It's very satisfying for people who don't get that kind of goal accomplishment sensation regularly.  And, at least in America, people are conditioned to be good little consumers and want more things constantly.  For $15 per month, you can have all sorts of wondrous things.  You can shop endlessly.  Ran out of money?  You can make more, and quickly!  It's all just a reflection of mainstream cultural values.  If we want a game that builds on other values, we'll have to choose a non-mainstream game.  Afterall, I don't care for mainstream pop music that's on the radio, but I don't sit around endlessly complaining about how predictable and uninspired it is..I just listen to something else that suits me.  

 And to the last point of the article, would we pay $20 per month for an MMOG that was clearly more fun and deep than what we have today (to support added development costs)?  I likely would.  But what about $30?  I understand that a developer can generally do more ambitious things faster with a bigger budget, but I'm not so sure that funding is the primary influence on current creativity.  It's likely the developer's desire to get a piece of the WoW monthly (desire for more consumer goods for their staff and investors, which comes back to the cultural observations above...) 

When Asheron's Call first opened the level cap was not even really thought of.  You just played the game and max level was thought to be basically impossible.

The game updated monthly with new content and that gave you something exiting and new to do and kept the game fresh for a long time.  But for the first few years I don't think I really even needed the new stuff there was so much to explore and do. 

There wasn't a lot of hand holding and you really had to figure a lot out on your own or from other players.

It wasn't like throwing on another pair of jeans no different from the last.

I haven't played a game that felt as fresh since but everything that is a first seems to have rose colored glassed, so who knows.

Almost forgot my point.

I know what you mean about max level and everyone just rushing to end game.  Asheron's Call didn't have an end game at release.  There was so much do to max level wasn't even thought about.  From what I recall it took a few years for someone to reach it and there wasn't a large percentage of people that were even close when that happened.

While I agree that the first 5 to 10 minutes of a game should grab you, Nightbringe1 made a valid point.

MMOs should be about a community experience. I prefer to group with people to do quests/kill that monster for the loot that I will use for a long time. I hate fast forwarding to the end game.  I think people should explore every part of an area, do all the quests before they should go on to the next area. You don't want players to go past areas that the developers spent a lot of time on. The world can get empty fast, with people congregating one high end area.

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

You want games MMO's to appeal to people with an attention span of only 10 minutes? And you wonder why the quality of games has been steadily decreasing for the last 5 year?

This has also baffled me (and is where I have to disagree with the author of the article).

Why on Gods green Earth are companies drooling over the tween "gimme now!" audience? Yes, there's a lot of them, and yes, they play videogames, but there's so much common sense that flies in the face of attempting to gain that audience. The biggest of course being is that they'll drop your product as fast as they picked it up, which might translate to decent box sales, but very little in terms of residuals (which MMOs need to stay viable).

The only reason(s) I can think of FOR tween focussed development:

1) There's so many of them (which makes the pie huge, therefore gets an easy buy-in from investors)

and

2) They're stupid (I disagree with this, but from the crap I've seen MMO dev/publishers pull it appears they do think these people are not intelligent) and therefore will buy anything, and put aside critical consumer thinking. Also, we've established that they're stupid, the developers think they can cut corners in terms of product quality without offending anyone.

To me, that market is actually fools gold, as tweens can see when they're getting ripped off, and don't have the patience to wait around for the developer to get it right.

Originally posted by Ruthgar

While I agree that the first 5 to 10 minutes of a game should grab you, Nightbringe1 made a valid point.

MMOs should be about a community experience. I prefer to group with people to do quests/kill that monster for the loot that I will use for a long time. I hate fast forwarding to the end game.  I think people should explore every part of an area, do all the quests before they should go on to the next area. You don't want players to go past areas that the developers spent a lot of time on. The world can get empty fast, with people congregating one high end area.

You can experience the content on other toons. Why should we have to do it all on each and every toon? I level one toon in some areas, another toon in the others. Eventually I will have seen everything. If I had to do the same exact content every single time on ever single character I level I would have given up long ago.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

You want games MMO's to appeal to people with an attention span of only 10 minutes? And you wonder why the quality of games has been steadily decreasing for the last 5 year?

 

This has also baffled me (and is where I have to disagree with the author of the article).

Why on Gods green Earth are companies drooling over the tween "gimme now!" audience? Yes, there's a lot of them, and yes, they play videogames, but there's so much common sense that flies in the face of attempting to gain that audience. The biggest of course being is that they'll drop your product as fast as they picked it up, which might translate to decent box sales, but very little in terms of residuals (which MMOs need to stay viable).

The only reason(s) I can think of FOR tween focussed development:

1) There's so many of them (which makes the pie huge, therefore gets an easy buy-in from investors)

and

2) They're stupid (I disagree with this, but from the crap I've seen MMO dev/publishers pull it appears they do think these people are not intelligent) and therefore will buy anything, and put aside critical consumer thinking. Also, we've established that they're stupid, the developers think they can cut corners in terms of product quality without offending anyone.

To me, that market is actually fools gold, as tweens can see when they're getting ripped off, and don't have the patience to wait around for the developer to get it right.

 

It's not about "tweens" necessarily. While they may indeed have shorter attention spans it's also about those of us in our 30's who are married, have kids and jobs. We don't have shorter attention spans, we just have less time to spend on frivolous stuff. We want to jump in, play, have fun and move on. As it stands you have to take the time you do have just to catch up to everyone else just so you can even play with them. That's not fun.

I totally understand where Richard is coming from. It has very little to do with appealing to 10 minute attention spans but everything to do with "engaging" people immediately. It's about creating a great impression from the outset because if you don't, you'll lose that window of opportunity that can lead to building a long term relationship with your customer. In effect, it's an existing and very real principle in business today that should be utilized by the games industry as well.

For example, this same principle is often used when building online website experiences. The first few minutes of someone experiencing a website for the first time are critical in determining if that person is going to stick around or leave it immediately. If they immediately get engaged by the website and an emotional "connection" is made, they'll more than likely stick around and explore it more, especially if navigating through the site is easy and has a "flow" to it.

Another example relating to the games industry is new MMO launches. How many times have we seen an MMO launch without success because it lacked a solid engaging experience from the outset. But then the developer continually tries to entice people back to the game to try again. Well that's just it. You've had your chance to make an impression and you've lost it, thus it's much more difficult now for you to make a connection with those same people again.

Now while Nightbringe1 has definitely raised a lot of great points, I think it's important to realize though that if the social space you're within isn't an enjoyable and engaging one to begin within, why would you want to spend your time within it building long term relationships? That's what I believe Richard is getting at here. Yes the game is the social space where people interact within. Yet at the same time, it has to be enjoyable and engaging, otherwise people won't invest their time within it building long term relationships and communities around it. Put another way, what point is there in planting a seed and nurturing it to life, when you know the ground (the foundation) can't possibly hope to sustain it.

Originally posted by archer75

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

It's not about "tweens" necessarily. While they may indeed have shorter attention spans it's also about those of us in our 30's who are married, have kids and jobs. We don't have shorter attention spans, we just have less time to spend on frivolous stuff. We want to jump in, play, have fun and move on. As it stands you have to take the time you do have just to catch up to everyone else just so you can even play with them. That's not fun.

No, playing catch up would not be fun if that's all you did. That most certainly sounds like work.

My apologies for generalizing regarding the 'tween' comments. I was specifically pointing at korean type RMTs and games such as freerealms/dungeon runners etc that most certainly cater to a more disposable audience.

I too am in my 30's, have a wife, kids, mortgage, job etc. I too play WoW. I've been playing a little over a year, and am loving it. I have a handful of toons, and while I do revel in their accomplishments, none of them are past level 66. I'd have no problem with NEVER reaching the level cap or owning that uber piece of gear. That's not why I play.

It is too bad you can't have fun without the latest and greatest gear. Like you said before. It shouldn't feel like work.

Originally posted by Nicephorus

While the general topic of this article is probably completely valid, some of the actual talking points seem rather odd and misplaced. Are we really having an issue with MMOGs not being exciting enough in the first "10 minutes" or hour, or whenever? I confess that strikes me as a very typical sentiment of the "instant gratification" crowd. Its like complaining about books because I still have to read past page 2, or movies if I'm not spellbound within the first 2-3 minutes.

As for the repetitive grind in MMOGs, I'm guessing there have been hundreds of threads on the forums on this topic over the past months, and like it or hate it, most of us understand why the grind exists. Suffice it to say, if someone comes up with a way to generate endless, truly unique, non repetitive content for MMOs, I'm sure the developers will be lining up to hire you. I strongly disagree with the idea that the leveling curve in most games is too steep, however.  Shorten the leveling curve, and it simply means you are replacing repetitive grinding of early/midgame content with repetitve grinding of endgame content.

Just my two cents....

This post I could not agree with more.

MMO's are not console games.  Instant gratification goes against the entire grain of MMOG's.  MMOG's are the traditional carrot on a stick mentality.  It's fun, but in a different way.  To make them easier puts more of a burden on developers to maintain a content schedule that cannot possibly kept.  Simply put, players will burn through content quicker than it can be produced contributing to attrition.  It's already prevalent in most MMO's as weeks/months after release players are at level cap complaining about nothing to do.  And you want it easier?

I also strongly disagree with the sentiment that learning curves are too difficult.  They are quite frankly, too easy now.  If you can't pick up an MMO and have the basic dynamics figured out in a couple minutes, you have either never played any video games in your life, or are seriously mentaly impaired(sorry to be so blunt). 

Asheron's Call and Anarchy Online are two games where I think the learning curve was where it should be, at least at release.   You had to explore and interact with other players to learn the in's and out's of the game and get your footing.  It provides for a more immersive experience and makes the player feel more acoomplished developing his/her character.  All of this is of course simply my opinion.  I consider exploring, and figuring out the intracacies of the world I am interacting with enjoyable.  I want to figure out on my own how to make things work.  All we have nowa days is look for the shiny quest icon.  Go to quest giver A, quest giver A sends you to quest giver B when he's done with you, wash, rinse repeat until level cap.  In the above mentioned games, you had to interact with NPCs, the world and the community and use your brain to figure out where quests were and how they worked.  Now you have quest trackers that point you to it and quest logs that tell you everything about it.   All that's left is to go there and kill X monster and get your shiny new bling.

Alas I realize my demograph that enjoys games like AC1 and UO are not the majority any longer and that is why we see MMOG's heading in the direction they are...catering to the instant gratification/console crowd.

I am still absolutely dumbfounded someone thinks MMOG's should be easier than they already are.  If they get any easier, they'll play themselves.  All we'll have to do is watch.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Originally posted by Nicephorus

While the general topic of this article is probably completely valid, some of the actual talking points seem rather odd and misplaced. Are we really having an issue with MMOGs not being exciting enough in the first "10 minutes" or hour, or whenever? I confess that strikes me as a very typical sentiment of the "instant gratification" crowd. Its like complaining about books because I still have to read past page 2, or movies if I'm not spellbound within the first 2-3 minutes.

As for the repetitive grind in MMOGs, I'm guessing there have been hundreds of threads on the forums on this topic over the past months, and like it or hate it, most of us understand why the grind exists. Suffice it to say, if someone comes up with a way to generate endless, truly unique, non repetitive content for MMOs, I'm sure the developers will be lining up to hire you. I strongly disagree with the idea that the leveling curve in most games is too steep, however.  Shorten the leveling curve, and it simply means you are replacing repetitive grinding of early/midgame content with repetitve grinding of endgame content.

Just my two cents....

This post I could not agree with more.

 

MMO's are not console games.  Instant gratification goes against the entire grain of MMOG's.  MMOG's are the traditional carrot on a stick mentality.  It's fun, but in a different way.  To make them easier puts more of a burden on developers to maintain a content schedule that cannot possibly kept.  Simply put, players will burn through content quicker than it can be produced contributing to attrition.  It's already prevalent in most MMO's as weeks/months after release players are at level cap complaining about nothing to do.  And you want it easier?

 

I also strongly disagree with the sentiment that learning curves are too difficult.  They are quite frankly, too easy now.  If you can't pick up an MMO and have the basic dynamics figured out in a couple minutes, you have either never played any video games in your life, or are seriously mentaly impaired(sorry to be so blunt). 

 

Asheron's Call and Anarchy Online are two games where I think the learning curve was where it should be, at least at release.   You had to explore and interact with other players to learn the in's and out's of the game and get your footing.  It provides for a more immersive experience and makes the player feel more acoomplished developing his/her character.  All of this is of course simply my opinion.  I consider exploring, and figuring out the intracacies of the world I am interacting with enjoyable.  I want to figure out on my own how to make things work.  All we have nowa days is look for the shiny quest icon.  Go to quest giver A, quest giver A sends you to quest giver B when he's done with you, wash, rinse repeat until level cap.  In the above mentioned games, you had to interact with NPCs, the world and the community and use your brain to figure out where quests were and how they worked.  Now you have quest trackers that point you to it and quest logs that tell you everything about it.   All that's left is to go there and kill X monster and get your shiny new bling.

 

Alas I realize my demograph that enjoys games like AC1 and UO are not the majority any longer and that is why we see MMOG's heading in the direction they are...catering to the instant gratification/console crowd.

 

I am still absolutely dumbfounded someone thinks MMOG's should be easier than they already are.  If they get any easier, they'll play themselves.  All we'll have to do is watch.

 

 

I think you are confusing easy with quick and difficult/challenging with long. You can have a challenging game yet it can be quick to level and learn and be fun in the process. Some games are very easy but take forever to level and advance and that's no fun at all. 

A game, book or movie does need to grab you quickly. If you've ever taken a class on writing a novel they tell you need to grab the reader on the first page. Again, it has nothing to do with short attention spans. But how much time to you really need to wade through boredom in order to get to the good stuff? Nothing should be like that. You have to give your audience an idea of what to expect right off the bat. I'm certainly not going to spend hours upon hours on something that just isn't fun in the hopes that it will eventually become fun.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

 

I am still absolutely dumbfounded someone thinks MMOG's should be easier than they already are.  If they get any easier, they'll play themselves.  All we'll have to do is watch.

 

They don't need to be easier - they need to be fun. WiIlingness to tolerate numbing repetition is not a skill.

Fishing in WoW is easy. It's also deadly dull. It's basically a form of self-hypnosis. The only time I have ever literally fallen asleep playing a game has been while fishing in WoW.