My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out". 

Originally posted by Tardcore

My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out". 

Haha! Not to mention safer. ;P

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by Goronian

DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?

 

I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo.

Why? What draws you in?

See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story. 

I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?

P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.

 

EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"

I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
 

For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games.  Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo.  Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games.  For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.

 

In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.

While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO.  I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world.  I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them.  We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me."  our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!".  While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing.  We made our way further and further into the dungeon,  eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group.  One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then.  Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!".  She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.

That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it.  Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?

I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.

Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.

Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway.  This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.

Sorry, but  you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

sounds civil and agreeable. i solo too sometimes. soloing we get to be at our own pace and be at our own adventure. being in party sometimes you have rush.... like your party is going to a cave and you still stuck in town stocking up pots and ect... soloing is like being in alive world full of human players and we can show off with our cool gears.

also why soloers play in mmo....... why people live in earth if dont want to interact with other being?

and sometimes your party mate can be a bossy &ick.

those that despise solo in mmo = not openminded

i solo and party in mmo. but if someone kept being on my back and tell me what is right and what is wrong.... i shall show no mercy!

sorry english english

It's simple, I like to have the freedom of choice. I choose to play a mmo because I may have liked the reviews, graphics, design etc, and not because I solely like to group with others. I don't choose a mmo because I look at it and go "Oh wonderful ! There's 12 million people in this game for me to group with. Let's buy/play it now."

It's the same reason I choose to stay home some Saturdays just to watch a dvd, or play a game. Or I can go out to a club / pub to have a drink with some friends and/or maybe chat up some babes there. I don't choose to go to a club/pub simply because it's the hottest spot in town and I HAVE to be there because everyone else is.

If I play a mmo, I want to have the option to solo if I wish and to group if I wish. I don't want to be forced to solo nor group. It's got nothing to do with the whole load of crappy pugs that I've hooked up with in my time; nor is it the many excellent groups that I've been in where it's 5am and no one wants to quit cos the group works like a well oiled killing machine. It's not about the fact that I sometimes do like reading through a quest line or just generally running around looking for rare pops on my own.

It's called freedom of choice. And that's why I like to solo.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Toquio3

If you dont like to solo, then you dont need to see the point. ill just say this: its a personal choice. you like certain things, other people like different things. does this sound too hard to compute?

There we go again...

I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.

Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.

1/10

Provoking analogy.

Here you are asking for a "civil" thread, then you come up with an analogy where you make soloers look like retards. You are talking about 2 ABSOLUTELY identical burgers; how come the one for the soloer is without meat then?! What are you meaning with this really, if it is not to provoke? Making comparisons where you make "soloers" look like they are retards or some kind of offspring of the society, will not be tolerated by most of us. It will end in a flamefest, and you are to be blamed yourself! Your TRUE intentions are coming out, as you clearly are after trouble with posting provocative nonsense like this.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by jaxsundane

....clipped for length....

I'm going to go directly into the question you ask Why do people who prefer to play solo choose mmos in the first place?
 

For me I enjoy roleplaying games be they console or plc online/offline games.  Having said that I also love the option to have harder content to tackle that can only be taken on with others which is an experience you can only get with an mmo.  Now as a person who has always favored roleplaying games over any other style of game it would really only be logical that I would indulge in mmo's since they in essence are all roleplaying games.  For me it is often why I find myself a little angered by snide comments about someones preference to solo as to grouping because from my experience most of what are in mmo's are not new they are the same systems we have been using for years with games like Phantasy Star,Final Fantasy series and others yet sometimes those who prefer to group want to look onto mmo's as something new that is being wrecked by those of us who just prefer role playing games.

 

In LOTRO which Ive played for over a year now I spend much more time in groups because I have actually made quite a few good friends I enjoy adventuring with but otherwise I'm loathe to engage in what often happens when grouping in a community you don't know or with people you don't know which can often be negative and honestly for me it peeves me enough that I don't mind avoiding grouping very often because again what I look for in games is the ability to live my characters life and often times regardless of how you see it mmo's do that much better than say Baldurs Gate even without the cut scenes and all.

While on the subject I would also like to relate an experience I had yesterday playing DDO.  I had played the game twice before since it's inception but never with any real frequency well I started to find myself liking the game and played up to level three or so and ventured out into the game world.  I was offered a group spot to run a dungeon on elite mode and after informing the group I was new but felt I can for the most part do my job joined up with them.  We enter the dungeon and ask our rogue to disable a trap, to which he immediately runs straight through the trap and kills himself.While I'm thinking "wow, this guy must be newer than me."  our healer chimes into the chat box with "YOU MUST BE THE WORST ROGUE I'VE EVER SEEN!".  While I don't think that it's right to have gone to those extremes without atleast seeing if his behavior would continue I also don't feel the need to champion someone elses cause so I said nothing.  We made our way further and further into the dungeon,  eventually losing the rogue who never was able to disarm a single trap and I'm starting to feel good about this group.  One of the last fights I notice the healer is spending more time fighting than actually healing and while this annoyed me I really didn't have a chance to say anything because I died right then.  Luckily though this was the last boss for this section and I got quest completion upon seeing this I resurrected myself in a tavern and began making my way towards the dungeon again only to see "ARE YOU PEOPLE DUMB OR WHAT, I TOLD YOU NOT TO LEAVE THE DUNGEON UNTIL I DO!!".  She had some other choice words that I missed because I was at the same time informing them that again I said I was new and that was actually my first and only mistake (and one that only hurt me by the way since I left that part of the dungeon I miss out on the exp reward) but I did not play to be spoken to like some underling or little brother and I kindly left.

That rather drawn out story are prime examples of the types of things that often happen when you are playing out and about with folks you don't know and as such I avoid it.  Point being if I can have fun playing an mmo solo why go through all the bother of finding groups to join only to have assorted asshats ruin my fun?

I couldn't see myself wanting to play a game where I could never group for fun but I also do enjoy my playtime alone enough to consider my mmo experience worthwhile.

Dude. First of all, as far as I'm aware, healers in DDO do not do in-fight heals, just like in regular DnD. You survive the fight, THEN you heal.

Wow. That's idiotic. Why even play a healer then and why ever group with one. They're not any more useful than bandages or sitting down to eat??  If this is true...I'm glad I didn't stick with DDO, because that's the dumbest mechanic for healing I've ever heard. What exactly is the point? Just saving time between fights? Is that the sole purpose of a healer in that game???

Secondly, imagine yourself in a situation, when you clearly explain everything, and then [people go and do things you specifically said NOT to do anyway.  This can get extremely frustrating, and is a direct result of people not wanting to actually, I'm sorry to say that, learn how to play and LISTEN to their teammates.

OMFG....that paragraph is so full of arrogant elitism, I don't even know where to begin to comment.

First of all...everyone is NEW at some point, even the know-it-all asshat that was barking orders in this scenario. You don't TEACH people by barking at them or lording it over them like you're some kind of goddess. I wouldn't listen to that cocky bitch EITHER....just to spite her for her uppity attitude and shit for brains social skills.

It's a GAME...it's not a military exercise in a real life war zone. And that selfish attitude of "lrn2plaaaaa n00b" is not only juvenile, but one of the primary reasons that soloing is so appealing to so many people. Who PAYS MONEY to be treated like shit? Unless you're a masochist....NO ONE.

Sorry, but  you and that rogue are as much to blame, if not more, than her in the situation, which ticked her off.

And of course since she's "ticked off," she has every RIGHT to treat the other party members like dog shit.  Riiiiight.  What a great example of the vast majority of modern day MMO players. Fortunately, there are still some people that don't behave this way just because their interactions are online and not face to face.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by silkakc

Originally posted by Goronian

 

 

EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"

 

Hiya,

I love to solo because it is too stressful to have to log out suddenly if I'm in a pug/group. Real life comes first and when my daughter, husband, elderly pets, elderly parents and in-laws need me- I log out instantly.

I play MMO's because I like an evolving world. I get new areas and quests every few months in my MMO to keep things exciting:)

Fair enough. Why can't we have more level-headed responses like that?

Because we're on the MMORPG.com forums. Are you well acquainted with these forums?  lol ;)

I solo because i hate whinny kids,fighting over loot that ppl dont need,the lame a$$ chat talking about last nights dinner ect ect,plain and simple dealing with a$$ hats in general.......So i guess im kinda antisocial at times and just like to be alone with me time :) lol............i also like to solo because i can go at my own pace and go afk when ever i feel to do so.......I dont need or want to be rushed to the next mission/quest just for the group to split apart if some one is not fast enough......Anyways thats just my 2 cents on why i love to solo

Originally posted by Tardcore

My personal take on soloing in MMORPGS is its like sex vs masturbation. Sure it is much more satifying with another person but it is far more conveinient to just "sort yourself out". 

I would say then masturbation or sex in at least 5 if you want to put it this way. :-))

regarding a few posts above, I think that mmos are "just" a game, but being just a game is no excuse to suck at it, expecially when youre max level. And by sucking I dont mean not being the best. Telling someone to stay out of the fire, and then seeing them dieing because they didnt is annoying, to say the least.

Anyway, I too prefer to solo, for all the reasons that everyone keeps posting.

Soloing lets you play how you want to, when you want to however that is not normally the main reason for it.

The main reason people want to solo in a MMO is the same reason that people want to play MMO's

People.

I have grouped with some great people and I have grouped with people that I have wanted to strangle.

The great ones are helpful, respectful and are out to achieve the main goal of the game...fun.

The awful ones are bossy, rude, petty, childish, etc etc etc. They regularly tell others how to play, what to do, where to go and become the largest fun suck in the game. It is beyond belief to them that people want to play the game and learn how to get thru it on their own. Unable to limit themselves to offering advice they begin escalated behavior when others do not lockstep to their demands. It is no surprise that a great many of these are "achievers" who in their own mind are truly a legend. They feel that their eliteness gives them carte blanche to behave like the biggest tools in any situation or group they are in.

This singular group if harness and weaponized could end every war worldwide simultaneously.

Because of them soloing will end up being in every game because even Devs don’t want to have to spend time with these people.

:)

[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread.

On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers.

We just wanna play to.

Originally posted by dterry

[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread.

On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers.

We just wanna play to.

Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
 

People are probably bad at grouping now simply because it is so uncommon, which is said when grouping in a multiplayer game is the untrodden path. "But you can group if you want to, you have that option!" Given the choice, people will choose the easier path, always, and that is soloing, because the casual kiddie games are designed around it.

I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.

I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.

That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).

So why give a shit?

Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.

Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than them for fun.

Its a pretty limited game style choice.

Why give them a hardtime?

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by dterry

[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread.

On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers.

We just wanna play to.

Then play a single player RPG, yes?

No.

What you gonna do about it? Oh thats right, theres nothing you CAN do to force me to "go play a single player rpg" now is there?

tough noodles to you.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by dterry

[sigh] another "I don't understand solo-er's" thread.

On behalf of all solo-ers: We don't care if you get it. Sometimes - we don't get the groupers.

We just wanna play to.

Then play a single player RPG, yes? Don't get me wrong, I've soloed quite a bit in the past several years, but I was raised on a game where I hated soloing. Soloing should always be there as an option, but grouping should be encouraged. Not forced grouping, but grouping should have large benefits over soloing.. This is what MMORPGs were all about. You could solo in EverQuest, it was just slow. That's why EQ is considered a real social MMO and WoW is not. If you wanna run through your own personal bubble with 1 or 2 real life friends, there's Diablo.
 

Why do MMO's have to be about grouping anyway? That would be my question. At any rate - I am perfectly fine with groups earning enhanced whatever - so long as all content is available to all paying customers. I've said before that D2 had a good mechanic for encouraging grouping by simply increasing drop rates on items. I can enjoy the same content as your group - but you will get better items, quicker then I will. Win-Win.

By the way... your statement about EQ being a "real" social MMO is purely opinion. I used to solo EQ - I used to group in FFXI. I want the option to do either with success in the same game.

Originally posted by metalhead980

I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.

I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.

That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).

So why give a shit?

Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.

Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun.

Its a pretty limited game style choice.

Why give them a hardtime?

I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game. 
 

My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage. 

We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.

That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.

That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by metalhead980

I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.

I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.

That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).

So why give a shit?

Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.

Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun.

Its a pretty limited game style choice.

Why give them a hardtime?

I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game. 
 

 

My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage. 

 

We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.

 

That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.

 

That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.

My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.

Originally posted by dterry

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by metalhead980

I don't get why groupers care so much about soloers.

I play Saga of ryzom on and off and most of the time I play I solo explore and hunt. It's not easy since the game is a group friendly game.

That community doesn't give me a hardtime, I don;t even matter because obviously they are leveling skills faster. Hell they could get two to three masteries in group before I even get one (something I havent even achieved yet in 13 months of play).

So why give a shit?

Even in themepark games its not like these guys could raid solo, or run instanced pvp solo.

Most they could do is quest and maybe clear dungeons that are like 20-30 levels lower than then for fun.

Its a pretty limited game style choice.

Why give them a hardtime?

I remember started to hate my favorite MMO when soloing became the way to go, why? Because it slowly killed the game. 
 

 

My fondest memories of DAOC were of wandering into a dungeon, killing some monsters, maybe running into trouble, someone would run down the stairs and help me. I'd group with them, and we'd push deeper, finding new people along the way. Eventually, we had an entire group, and we'd charge through the dungeon (no quests, just killing and talking and laughing) exploring and having a good time. Ran into some bleeders, which swarmed us, group scatters, one person falls into a secret passage. We all regroup later and explore this passage. 

 

We have so much fun playing together and just talking that the group literally lasted 3 days. People would log off to sleep or to eat, and when they came back, they'd message someone from the group to see who else was on. We went our seperate ways eventually and then happened to run into eachother again in another dungeon many levels later, which again, we explored, finding a hall of fire that blew up anyone that entered, trying to figure out a way around it, great night.

 

That experience never happened again once soloing became the fastest way to level up. Why? Did they remove the grouping option? No, everyone was too busy in their own instance by themselves or with a friend or two, and the social aspect of the game died. No new players stayed because there was no one to show them the ropes. The game slowly bled players and didn't recover them.

 

That is why I see soloing as a problem. It should always be an option, but if you want a social game at all, it should always be the harder option, because no matter how much some people may LIKE to group, they will always level the fastest they can.

My issue is not with solo-ing being harder - I'm fine with that. The problem is when content is simply not doable for solo-ers.

There's tons of content in MMOs, I don't really see anything wrong with more challenging content developed around a group encounter. Things are interesting that way, having to coordinate people into various roles to beat a challenge, it adds dimension to an MMO. If you feel left out cause you can't do it solo, consider so much more of game is devoted to YOUR experience than those who enjoy group encounters, and let them have some fun too.