I couldn't help but notice this in the comments portion:

"One hint for Cryptic, don't listen too delicately to your audience, 95% of MMO forums is bellyaching. I loved WOW for years but after reading the forums for so long I got pretty sick of the people that post on there. Hell that's all game forums I guess."

Originally posted by Brenelael

LOL at most of you... I actually think the game is shaping up nicely but then again I've been expecting this to be a game from the very beginning and not some alternate reality Star Trek life simulator. This game sounds like it will be enjoyable and fun... you know, the whole point of a game in the first place?!? You guys just go on griping though as it's entertaining to say the least... "OMG, This game is gonna suck and fail because it isn't the Star Trek fantasy life simulator I cooked up in my own mind!!!" ... LOL

The thing is - persistent world MMORPGs are supposed to be alternate reality world simulators. Not just games. Star Trek is not a game. It is an alternate universe.

 

You guys remind me of some of the die hard Star Trek fans after the last film. "OMG, this film is an action packed thrill ride that everyone can enjoy!!! That isn't Star Trek!!!" ... LOL

 

Bren

Star Trek isn't for everyone. When you dilute it to make it more palatable for the masses, you remove what is special about it.

BTW, I just watched the new movie a few hours ago, and I have no major complaints about it. I thought the Sulu and Scott actors looked wrong for their roles, but Kirk, Uhura, and especially McCoy, were fine.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

LOL at most of you... I actually think the game is shaping up nicely but then again I've been expecting this to be a game from the very beginning and not some alternate reality Star Trek life simulator. This game sounds like it will be enjoyable and fun... you know, the whole point of a game in the first place?!? You guys just go on griping though as it's entertaining to say the least... "OMG, This game is gonna suck and fail because it isn't the Star Trek fantasy life simulator I cooked up in my own mind!!!" ... LOL

The thing is - persistent world MMORPGs are supposed to be alternate reality world simulators. Not just games. Star Trek is not a game. It is an alternate universe.

 

You guys remind me of some of the die hard Star Trek fans after the last film. "OMG, this film is an action packed thrill ride that everyone can enjoy!!! That isn't Star Trek!!!" ... LOL

 

Bren

Star Trek isn't for everyone. When you dilute it to make it more palatable for the masses, you remove what is special about it.

BTW, I just watched the new movie a few hours ago, and I have no major complaints about it. I thought the Sulu and Scott actors looked wrong for their roles, but Kirk, Uhura, and especially McCoy, were fine.

The only problem I had was the casting choice of Sulu. He's a fine actor, but Sulu was japanese, not korean. But I can live with it.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Sarbocabras

Originally posted by DanaDark

Not to mention they also specifically stated they have no interest in competing with WoW for players (Which is terrific news and keeps WoW players away lol... no offense to the 2 or 3 good WoW players out there!)

Exactly some people need to read the article, before posting..

 

This point can't be emphasized enough. This article talks in depth about topics that some folks have been claiming haven't been covered enough.

Yes, the part where they say they designed two whole games "ground combat" and "space combat" is particularly telling.  The Prime Directive being something they ignore (do they not understand that "Who Watches the Watchers?" is one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever?)  They honestly don't say all that much about what they've specifically implemented besides some combat stuff.
 

 Wow. Only someone with a predisposed disposition towards the game could come away from all that with " It's all about combat."

Oh really?  Then why don't you provide me with a quote from that interview that indicates otherwise.  Even the examples they give you of missions ALWAYS seem to have a hostile force involved or implied (the later when they are being very vague).
 

Or are you counting the customizing part as the non-combat element?

 

• Configurations of the Ships 
• Yes, there are 16 total configurations total, from three ship classes with five ships in each tier, plus the first Light Cruiser. But within each configuration, we want you to be able to customize your ship’s appearance

MISSIONS

• And what kinds of things are you doing on away missions? Just killing everyone?
  • CZ: Just think of all the myriad things you’ve seen in an episode of Star Trek. For example, after you dispatch Klingon ships above a planet, you may have to beam down to the planet to save the locals from the Klingon landing party. Some missions ask you to recover artifacts and others have you following people back in time.

LOOT

• MPC: What type of loot will you be able to collect from missions and random exploration?
  • CZ: With bridge officers, they all have a paper doll that needs to be equipped with armor, personal shields, weapons, and other tools, which you’ll find on your missions. The same goes with your own character avatar. There are plenty of items and loot that you’ll find within the game, which you can sell or trade at spaceports. You can even find potential bridge officers.
     

GROUPING

MPC: Will you be allowed to team up with friends who are at a much higher or lower level than your character?

• • CZ: The missions themselves are set level, and you can bring in a range of levels to play in them. Like City of Heroes, we have a sidekick system that lets your team scale to one level, with the experience rewards scaled along the same line as well.
     

Player Progression

• CZ: We don’t have levels, per se. We have five ranks in the game, ranging from Lieutenant to Admiral. Each of those has 10 sub-ranks, so that ends up being 50 “levels.” And that’s indicated by the pins on your uniform, just like on the show.

Socialization

• MPC: You mentioned spaceports. Do you mean space stations like Deep Space Nine?
  • CZ: There are several large social hubs within the game. Earth Space Dock is probably the largest one for the Federation. That’s where you go to repair your ship, visit the auction house, and get access to new ships. There are major ones like Deep Space Nine, and minor ones like Memory Alpha, which have similar amenities.
     

The last part of Page 3 into page 4 talks about how the Genesis System works, but I'm thru pasting for you. I think you skimmed the first two pages and just threw up your hands saying "nothing but combat"

You're joking right?  This is the non-combat element?  Customizing ships is the big non-combat thing?  Talking to other people is the big non-combat thing?  Stuff about LEVELING is the big non-combat thing?  Wow, I gues World of Warcraft is FULL of non-combat options.  After all, you can level up there and pick talents, that's tons of non-combat stuff right there!  You can be a tailor there too!  (Let's ignore the fact you actually need to get money and materials to do crafting, eh, as well as level up which requires combat).  The AUCTION HOUSE?  Come on!
 

Oh, you can equip your guys.  With armor, shields and weapons.  That's not about combat at all, right?

I have no doubt why you didn't quote the Genesis System, because it DOESN'T TALK AT ALL ABOUT NON-COMBAT OPTIONS.  I was under the impression you were talking about significant gameplay here, but apparently you'd count messaging other plays as a big non-combat draw worthy of a Star Trek game.

The only possible thing you have I already addressed.  "Just think of all the myriad things you’ve seen in an episode of Star Trek. For example, after you dispatch Klingon ships above a planet, you may have to beam down to the planet to save the locals from the Klingon landing party. Some missions ask you to recover artifacts and others have you following people back in time."  Dispatching Klingon Ships is combat.  Saving the locals from a Klingon attack is combat.  Recovering artifacts isn't clear, I will admit that, but it certainly doesn't imply that this isn't "kill a bunch of things to get the artifact" especially since there's no talk of non-combat options in this whole article and the other quotes as well.  Same with following people back in time...or are you saying they've somehow managed to capture the feel of the City on the Edge of Forever and didn't bother to tell anyone?  Thinking First Contact is more appropriate here (follow them back in time and shoot them to death).  Anyhow, if two vague statements that don't really say whether it is combat or not are the best non-combat gameplay besides TALKING TO OTHER PLAYERS, customizing your ship and crew, and leveling up (even if it is "not levels per se" picking a skill once you've earned enough whatever to pick one IS essentially leveling up),  then I am standing by my position that there's no significant non-combat theme.

I played CoH for about 20 levels before I got bored of it.  I suppose it is full of non-combat activities because you get to customize your look and pick things when you level, right?  ::rollseyes::

Originally posted by ktanner3

The only problem I had was the casting choice of Sulu. He's a fine actor, but Sulu was japanese, not korean. But I can live with it.

Well, if you want to get technical, "Sulu" is not a Japanese name and is more Korean, I believe (or was that philipino?)  I remember reading that in the Japanese dub the Japanese assumed Sulu wasn't Japanese for this very reason.
 

Of course it will be a combat game, thats what has even a slight chance of selling. There havent been many sustainable non-combat features in MMOs that were a success. At the most, you have a Vanguard, which is likely the most non-combat-centric MMO out there... because it has Diplomacy (well, had) and Crafting as sidegames, housing and other staples of MMOs, but its still centered and played as a game which is about fighting monsters and gaining levels.

Non-Combat content doesnt have a long lifespan usually, and only works as a sideorder to the combat. Nothing much has been tried to expand beyond that by virtually anyone, except maybe the old SWG, which isnt exactly a success either.

So unless you believe Cryptic is going to risk, and not tell anyone beforehand nonetheless, their best chance at making some money and somehow paying for the CO disaster as well, by doing something absolutely new, unprecedented and for some reason keep quiet about it, STO will be a combat MMO just like they all are, and wont care one bit about the lore of it all.

Hell, look at LotRO, a game which was marketed as FAR more lore-centric than STO, and how it went into the WoW direction because lore doesnt sell. Combat does.

Originally posted by Khaunshar

Of course it will be a combat game, thats what has even a slight chance of selling. There havent been many sustainable non-combat features in MMOs that were a success. At the most, you have a Vanguard, which is likely the most non-combat-centric MMO out there... because it has Diplomacy (well, had) and Crafting as sidegames, housing and other staples of MMOs, but its still centered and played as a game which is about fighting monsters and gaining levels.

Non-Combat content doesnt have a long lifespan usually, and only works as a sideorder to the combat. Nothing much has been tried to expand beyond that by virtually anyone, except maybe the old SWG, which isnt exactly a success either.

So unless you believe Cryptic is going to risk, and not tell anyone beforehand nonetheless, their best chance at making some money and somehow paying for the CO disaster as well, by doing something absolutely new, unprecedented and for some reason keep quiet about it, STO will be a combat MMO just like they all are, and wont care one bit about the lore of it all.

Hell, look at LotRO, a game which was marketed as FAR more lore-centric than STO, and how it went into the WoW direction because lore doesnt sell. Combat does. 

A Tale in the Desert.  Look it up.  There's zero combat in that MMO and it is alive and kicking.

Btw, I am not complaining that there is combat.  I am saying that interview doesn't demonstrate there is anything else of significance.  There in fact are very few statements from the Devs indicating anything other than combat (and I am NOT counting customizing your ships, picking skills, equipping your guys, or talking to other players).  Seems like all non-combat stuff is probably part of Episodes so far, which means there will be very little of it -- assuming there is even that.
 

Frankly, that bit about customizing your ship(s) has me concerned. If it means fancy paint jobs and accessories on the outside - that truly repels me and totally breaks with the IP. Star Fleet doesn't let captains paint their ships with individual designs. Of course, it doesn't let captains keep a stable of different ships, either.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Khaunshar

Of course it will be a combat game, thats what has even a slight chance of selling. There havent been many sustainable non-combat features in MMOs that were a success. At the most, you have a Vanguard, which is likely the most non-combat-centric MMO out there... because it has Diplomacy (well, had) and Crafting as sidegames, housing and other staples of MMOs, but its still centered and played as a game which is about fighting monsters and gaining levels.

Non-Combat content doesnt have a long lifespan usually, and only works as a sideorder to the combat. Nothing much has been tried to expand beyond that by virtually anyone, except maybe the old SWG, which isnt exactly a success either.

So unless you believe Cryptic is going to risk, and not tell anyone beforehand nonetheless, their best chance at making some money and somehow paying for the CO disaster as well, by doing something absolutely new, unprecedented and for some reason keep quiet about it, STO will be a combat MMO just like they all are, and wont care one bit about the lore of it all.

Hell, look at LotRO, a game which was marketed as FAR more lore-centric than STO, and how it went into the WoW direction because lore doesnt sell. Combat does. 

A Tale in the Desert.  Look it up.  There's zero combat in that MMO and it is alive and kicking.

Btw, I am not complaining that there is combat.  I am saying that interview doesn't demonstrate there is anything else of significance.  There in fact are very few statements from the Devs indicating anything other than combat (and I am NOT counting customizing your ships, picking skills, equipping your guys, or talking to other players).  Seems like all non-combat stuff is probably part of Episodes so far, which means there will be very little of it -- assuming there is even that.
 

To each his own then. Whatever it is you're lookinng for in a game I hope you find it some day because it's obvious you will never like this one. ;)

Originally posted by Athcear

Every time I hear more about this game, I hate it more and more.  Star Trek is not about war.  A game based on Star Trek should not be this heavily focused on combat.  Star Trek is about politics, it's about diplomacy, it's about cultures...  It's about the freaking mission "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no MAN has gone before."  I see nothing Star Trek-like about anything this game has to offer.  Hell, I barely see any MMO in what the game has to offer.

That was the way it was orginally b4 all this political correctness came about.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Khaunshar

Of course it will be a combat game, thats what has even a slight chance of selling. There havent been many sustainable non-combat features in MMOs that were a success. At the most, you have a Vanguard, which is likely the most non-combat-centric MMO out there... because it has Diplomacy (well, had) and Crafting as sidegames, housing and other staples of MMOs, but its still centered and played as a game which is about fighting monsters and gaining levels.

Non-Combat content doesnt have a long lifespan usually, and only works as a sideorder to the combat. Nothing much has been tried to expand beyond that by virtually anyone, except maybe the old SWG, which isnt exactly a success either.

So unless you believe Cryptic is going to risk, and not tell anyone beforehand nonetheless, their best chance at making some money and somehow paying for the CO disaster as well, by doing something absolutely new, unprecedented and for some reason keep quiet about it, STO will be a combat MMO just like they all are, and wont care one bit about the lore of it all.

Hell, look at LotRO, a game which was marketed as FAR more lore-centric than STO, and how it went into the WoW direction because lore doesnt sell. Combat does. 

A Tale in the Desert.  Look it up.  There's zero combat in that MMO and it is alive and kicking.

Btw, I am not complaining that there is combat.  I am saying that interview doesn't demonstrate there is anything else of significance.  There in fact are very few statements from the Devs indicating anything other than combat (and I am NOT counting customizing your ships, picking skills, equipping your guys, or talking to other players).  Seems like all non-combat stuff is probably part of Episodes so far, which means there will be very little of it -- assuming there is even that.
 

 

To each his own then. Whatever it is you're lookinng for in a game I hope you find it some day because it's obvious you will never like this one. ;)

Yeah, my expectation for Star Trek to have non-combat material besides character customization is completely ridiculous.  Surely it is outrageous that I'd expect there to be diplomacy (or other resolutions to missions that avoid combat) in a Star Trek game, right?  I guess you concede there is no reason to think this sort of thing exists in significant quantity, certainly nothing in that interview (despite what you said).

Hmm, it occurs to me that you might think I play A Tale in the Desert which isn't the case.  I just had some relatives that did.

Originally posted by Blurr

I think people are overreacting too quickly at the slightest thing here. You notice he didn't actually talk about diplomacy in the quesiton that everyone was so worried about, and I think as someone pointed out, it might have been a joking manner. So while they have talked about trying to get diplomacy in the game before, I haven't seen anywhere that they've denied it so far.

That being said, putting in a diplomacy system can't be easy. If it's all pre-scripted, then everyone can just follow the trail and get all the good reputation. Creating a fully fleshed out diplomacy system can't be easy, I mean I can't really think of an MMO that's actually done it. Vanguard had a system with a lot of potential, but they couldn't get it implemented fully. Add to that the fact that STO is going from Closed beta to launch in the space of 4 months or so, and it's a very precarious thing altogether.

I think maybe just wait to play the game before you get too worked up about there being no diplomacy.

Yeah, they talk about diplomacy... They talk about how "boring" it is... -_-

Originally posted by DanaDark

People always think they are smart when they suggest deleting a character to simulate perma-death. The reality is it makes you look very foolish to suggest such.

Actually, there are some guilds that play like this. If you get killed at any time, you have to delete your character. I remember there was one WoW guild that did it.

I wouldn't say it's foolish, just very, very hard core.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Brenelael

LOL at most of you... I actually think the game is shaping up nicely but then again I've been expecting this to be a game from the very beginning and not some alternate reality Star Trek life simulator. This game sounds like it will be enjoyable and fun... you know, the whole point of a game in the first place?!? You guys just go on griping though as it's entertaining to say the least... "OMG, This game is gonna suck and fail because it isn't the Star Trek fantasy life simulator I cooked up in my own mind!!!" ... LOL

The thing is - persistent world MMORPGs are supposed to be alternate reality world simulators. Not just games. Star Trek is not a game. It is an alternate universe.

 

You guys remind me of some of the die hard Star Trek fans after the last film. "OMG, this film is an action packed thrill ride that everyone can enjoy!!! That isn't Star Trek!!!" ... LOL

 

Bren

Star Trek isn't for everyone. When you dilute it to make it more palatable for the masses, you remove what is special about it.

BTW, I just watched the new movie a few hours ago, and I have no major complaints about it. I thought the Sulu and Scott actors looked wrong for their roles, but Kirk, Uhura, and especially McCoy, were fine.

This is the point people seem to be forgetting. MMORPG are supposed to be massive, they're supposed to involve role-playing. If I wanted to play a Star Trek Combat Simulator, I'd play Starfleet Academy. I want to play a Star Trek Universe Simulator. I simply cannot understand how fans of this game can sneer derisively at that concept. They act as if MMOs should be nothing but fighting all the time.

I'm guessing that this game is attracting the Counterstrike fanbois (and no wonder since all the developers ever talk about is PvP and fighting.) It seems like these types of people really dislike things like story, depth, role-playing, and anything that gets in the way of them "pwning some n00bs."

But I guess that's the natural consequence of a development house questing for the big "WoW dollars."