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Originally posted by TheHatter no i actually haven't played WoW since pre BC i just think the idea of being force to group to advance your character is asinine
Ah well, still. I think your idea is right, but your use of it is wrong. You shouldn't be able to get those big bosses to get endgame gear, but you should still be able to advance through a storyline or something along those lines to be able to get some pretty decent gear. There's no reason that the storylines can't have bosses, but not the same ones that the raids do... if that's what you were talking about anyway. when i'm talking about skill i'm not talking about sitting there and mashing your keyboard i'm talking about knowing how to use each skill depending on how the boss attacking you... you know actually putting some thought into the combat |
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11/26/09 5:45:58 PM#22
Originally posted by GetViolated because you can still interact in a multiplayer environment
Not many people felt that way before 2004 =\ |
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Originally posted by Eronakis
Not many people felt that way before 2004 =\ i used to play everquest and i had many solo things i could have done while waiting for a group |
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11/26/09 5:55:04 PM#24
Eh, raiding should stay a large group thing. But.... The thing I feel should be changed is raid loot drops. I like raid loot that isnt class specific. Raid loot should be uber gear that has nothing to do with specific classes - the loot should be more general in nature and more vaired. Class specific uber gear should be something that doesnt require raid farming (though could require an item drop - not a single rolled drop, but more like a quest drop - that might require a character to have to at least make it through a dungeon at least once) Raid gear shouldnt be full sets of gear, more like just random pieces that are better than and can replace class based epic gear. Though I do agree with part of the OP; MMO end game does need more content for solo play. Not content that allows someone to solo to the exact gear levels of a raider. Raiders should always have the better gear drops, but non raiders should be penalized both gear and content wise. End game does not mean 'End of the leveling game and start of raid farming content'. It just means its the end of leveling for that period in time. End game content can be a ton of quests designed to allow solo players to follow some side story taht ties in with the overall story of the game. It could also be random content that players can pick up each day (like dailies, just with a lil more depth and a lot more randomly done, like selecting missions from a mission terminal in AO). End Game shouldnt only consist of raiding or PvP. Because not everyone cares about raiding and PvP. There are 3 types of people in the world.
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11/26/09 6:00:49 PM#25
The concept of "raiding" in the WoW sense of huge 40+ man raids is idiotic and hamfisted in the first place and we should be trying our best to rid that crap from our games. "Large group" IE: 2 full groups tops, 3 if there are exceptionally small group number caps, is far superior and generally eliminates most of the douchebaggery and elitism that comes with "traditional raiding". Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts. EAT ME MMORPG.com! |
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Arcken
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
11/26/09 6:00:55 PM#26
Originally posted by Axehilt Normal group/raid-based "endgame" isn't "endgame" either. It's continued progression. On topic, I agree with the OP. While I personally want a full group progression, a full solo progression should exist too. Players should be able to jump around all four types of progression without feeling too locked into one (PVP, raiding, grouping, and soloing.) Actually I suppose PVP can be the most separate from the rest, but not quite WOW style (where it seems entirely separate at this point.)
I disagree, more solo content means more people will most likely choose not to group. Now if most people dont group, then whats the point of a MMORPG? Like playing basketball, I much prefer being in a team, as opposed to just shooting baskets in my driveway. I can understand that people wanting solo content, if theyre short on time, or cant find a group, etc etc. However frankly I feel that the injection of solo play into MMOs have pretty much ruined the genre. Back in EQ when you had to group, you couldnt be an ass, or youd never find a group, and your toon would never advance. If everyone knew you were an ass, you might as well call it a night, your toon was done. Frankly the rise of solo play to me is little more than a physical representation of our continuing degredation of social skills.l |
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Arcken
Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/14/04
Lets face it, MMOs today are turning into single player console games with a chat box included. |
11/26/09 6:02:21 PM#27
Originally posted by GetViolated
Not many people felt that way before 2004 =\ i used to play everquest and i had many solo things i could have done while waiting for a group Yes but the return was horrible. They made sure to nerf any class that could get more xp soloing than grouping. |
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11/27/09 5:14:07 PM#28
those that hate to have long wait gathering people to raid or boss in mmos but still be playing mmo..... they just want to show off to thousands of other players. show off level, gears, progression ect...
showing off is fun. |
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11/27/09 5:31:09 PM#29
I think the "endgame" should slowly, but sutely be elimenated from the MMO design. Come on, devs, do some innovation already! I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again. |
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11/27/09 6:08:37 PM#30
I favor soloing too, but not as extreme as OP. If you ask me, end levels phat loot should be achieved by 5 man groups. There should be end level content in greater extent than it is today though. WoW is close, but not close enough. But Blizzard is taking the steps towards more solo friendly content closely. But then, there are no MMO's that offer all the phat loot at end level for the soloer...? So who knows if that would be a success. Look at the FPS games, COD 6 has broken every single media record when it comes to film & game releases. Activision is earning shiploads of money, and they have even joined forces with Blizzard. I do like the idea though, cause sometimes I dont feel like a "true" hero in the different MMO's just due to the fact that I need to be with ALOT of strangers to achieve my goals. And when I do that, I actually "share" my new-gained her-powers with totally strangers. Unrealistic. |
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11/27/09 6:09:52 PM#31
Originally posted by keithianw
Why do you play MMO's then...? Please, do enlighten me! |
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11/27/09 6:13:55 PM#32
Originally posted by chrisel
Why do you play MMO's then...? Please, do enlighten me!
I think soloers play MMOs simply to get lost in the crowd. some never get guilded, speak over any channels, and they might as well be playing an offline game - but simply passing other players is enough to make them feel safe or something. Never understood why they flock to games where grouped PvP stalkers will stomp them out, and yet they keep playing/complaining. Very strange people imo though. Writer / Musician / Game Designer Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 |
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11/27/09 6:14:19 PM#33
Who cares wether you can solo or not. How about some developer out there bring some new mechanics and ideas to the mmo genre for once that actually work. How many more mmos will be the same ole fedex quests with average pvp concepts that fail. |
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11/27/09 6:45:58 PM#34
Originally posted by GTwander
I think soloers play MMOs simply to get lost in the crowd. some never get guilded, speak over any channels, and they might as well be playing an offline game - but simply passing other players is enough to make them feel safe or something. Never understood why they flock to games where grouped PvP stalkers will stomp them out, and yet they keep playing/complaining. Very strange people imo though.
Still, you do spend your time thinking about it... So you care. About the soloers. Well, in opposite, most soloers does'nt care about the group-fanatics. We care about the CONTENT. I see very little strangeness in that... To me it is more weird the bashing soloers take from the group-fanatics. A little question for you... I see that you mention "groups ganking soloers"... Well, isnt that actually as LOW as you can get when it comes to MMO behavior...? Why should any MMO favor grouping OR soloing playstyle in the first place...? We, who enjoy soloing, are THE biggest force in MMO world, and we are growing in numbers. And you bet the gaming companies want our money... So they listen to us. Heck, I would even say they are in dire NEED of us! To me, majority of the MMO freaks are actully those who are guilded up, and do just as you say; group up and gank loners. Which is just as lame as it can get. It requires NO skill and NO gear either. You barely need a brain for that. All you need is low empathy and a poor soul who has fun questing alone. Until assaulted by griefers. Yuck... and you want MMO's to ENCOURAGE that even more?? So dear one, we are not the ones who are the "strangers" anymore; we continue to change & adapt as the MMO genre evolves. While you "group-fanatics" sit paralyzed on your backs, seeing it all flying past... as helpless spectators... Until the day comes when theres only group-ganking left for you to do... all in anger cause we other have been listened to...
/bearhug :-) |
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf |
11/27/09 6:48:18 PM#35
Originally posted by GetViolated No. I'm a bit tired of the solo mentality infecting every single game out there these days and tearing the game down into unchallenging single player content. Learn to play.
"Just because you aren't paying doesn't mean it's not PTW." - Amaranthar |
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RavingRabbid
 Novice Member
Joined: 10/11/09
Remember Rabbids cant play MMO's, but they can dance! |
11/27/09 6:54:23 PM#36
A game should have majority solo content and alot grouping. The good gear should only be in raid content and not handed to a player because he prefers one play style over another. (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH fires plunger at Simon Coul and takes his place on the American Idol Panel! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH) Everyone on MMORPG.com before every thread put the letters IMO as you and I dont speak for the gaming community or anyone else. Playing: SWTOR, Eve Online, and World of Tanks. |
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11/27/09 7:14:15 PM#37
I agree and dissagree. I solo a lot and hate the fact that thongs get dumbed down so much in games. I like the game to be a chalange, not just a brainless quest grind. This can be done with end game solo dungeons. As far as SPG, I play them but get board fast. A linear RPG like gragon age is fun to go through once or twice. But then what? The game is over. No reason to keep playing. MMO's can be played for months as a solo player. I do like to group as well though and in a MMO, the chance of a random grouping with players you meet while questing can be a lot of fun. Solo end game should be the same as group end game you can use the same dungeons and scale the difficulty as with the new skermish system in LOTRO. Loot would be scaled as well. Solo basic would be basic loot. Solo difficult would have better loot. Small group up to epic raid with the best loot of all. I would not have a problem with that. “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?” |
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11/27/09 7:18:14 PM#38
Originally posted by Papadam
Sounds perfect to me too.  |
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11/28/09 3:19:26 AM#39
Originally posted by Kyleran No. I'm a bit tired of the solo mentality infecting every single game out there these days and tearing the game down into unchallenging single player content. Learn to play.
Huh?? Are you blaming people who want their share of fun soloing for the poor game mechanics...?? Seriously! How DARE you say that someone who pays their monthly fee, just like YOU, should NOT be a hero in the MMO they play, just because they have a playstyle that differs from yours?? |
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deviliscious
 Novice Member
Joined: 11/09/07
"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth" |
11/28/09 4:12:06 AM#40
MMO's should be designed so that people can solo and group at will. Nothing forced. If you want to go hang with friends and enjoy the game together you can, if you don't want to wait around doing nothing until your friends come on, and prefer not to get stuck with some flame spam happy kiddos that are spamming "LFG" , you won;t be forced to just to get something done. All I see forced grouping does is force people who have no desire to talk to one another into a lame group ruining their gameplay. People group when it isn;t required because it is pleasureable to them, the largest guild I have ever been in was 600 members in a " non grouping required game". You hang with people you enjoy being around, and should not be forced into creepy groups with creepy kids sitting there asking you 42 times " will you be my gf?" lmao. End game in all games should be rewarded. There should be great end game content so that there really isn;t an end to the game, just more fun once you get other goals accomplished. Mini games, great one on one pvp, massive battles pvp, and small grouped pvp, as well as raiding, non combat related activities are great things for a good " endgame". MMORPGs should be designed with plenty for everyone to do with no waiting for anything to happen. You can always be doing something, and not being forced to look for people to do it with, if they are out doing the same things, great, if you want to go with friends great, but the standing around waiting for things to happen is like standing in line for a roller coaster.. it blows. |
