Originally posted by Goronian

 I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo.

Why? What draws you in?

See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll.....

Khm...ever tried something else other then Korean mmo's?

Oh look, another grouping vs soloing thread, might as well up my post count. 

Some people like to solo in online world games, heck I do it a lot myself.  I just prefer games with a strong grouping mechanic at their core. Doesn't make me right or them wrong, just means we all prefer different things in our gaming.

One would hope there would be room in the genre to accommodate all play styles, however since Dev's are always chasing the WOW rainbow we keep getting games mostly designed around its more solo friendly model.

Perhaps FFXIV will bring us an alternative, though I suspect the lack of PVP might be something I can't deal with.

Originally posted by Goronian

...But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story...

But that is exactly it.  I don't want closure to the story.  I don't mind paying a monthly fee for a living, breathing "Baldur's Gate".  My monthly fee pays for expansions and holiday events that a static game doesn't provide.  I enjoy racing rams in October and delivering chocolate during Valentione's Day.

Because I perfer to play solo, doesn't mean I don't interact with those around me.  It's more like having an instant messenger inside of "Baldur's Gate" where I can talk to people experiencing the same world.

 Read the thread, people. I already agree on you with the "solo" subject.

There is a lot of similarity between the comparison of the extrovert / introvert and anti-solo / solo. The extrovert after a lot of social interaction will feel energized. An introvert will feel drained after the same even if they find the activity enjoyable. An introvert needs time alone to recover. Some extroverts show the same inability to comprehend why other people need time alone as the anti-solo players show toward the solo player.

I enjoy group play but find the activity to be exhausting. Solo play give me the chance to enjoy the game even when I am not up for group play. Pure solo and pure group players are the outliers most people play a mix of the two.

I have been playing MMO for years now and when I have tried single player RPG they have felt dead. Having other people in a game is enough to make the game feel alive even without  a lot of interaction.

Question is, what is the criteria for being a 'soloer'?

Do you have to play purely alone, or just most of the time? Can you be in a guild or not? What if you are, for example, a crafter in SWG which is solo by nature?

I mostly solo and sometimes duo, very rarely group. However I have arranged many in-game social and role-playing events and competitions  for my guild or server-wide (depending on the game) over the years. That's the kind of interaction I enjoy. Fighting is not the only group experience in an MMO, and I prefer to do that at my own pace.

ebayers tend to prefer solo. if you play a mob grind based mmo such as lineage 2, people ebay and dont want to party up.

they got all good equipments and can kill things whole lot faster and whole lot more exp than party due to their souped up gears.

mmo suck. its just a world that people can run in and do repetitive stuff with no depth compare to consoles and single player rpg. consoles/single player rpg may be repetitive but we get depth, story, cutscenes, cinmatics as a reward through progress.

dungeon siege 2 and dark alliance is a great single player rpg with scripts cutscenes and indepth story.

Originally posted by Bloodnok

Question is, what is the criteria for being a 'soloer'?

Do you have to play purely alone, or just most of the time? Can you be in a guild or not? What if you are, for example, a crafter in SWG which is solo by nature?

I mostly solo and sometimes duo, very rarely group. However I have arranged many in-game social and role-playing events and competitions  for my guild or server-wide (depending on the game) over the years. That's the kind of interaction I enjoy. Fighting is not the only group experience in an MMO, and I prefer to do that at my own pace.

I generally prefer the more awkward term 'not group-centric player'.  I really do not like the 'forced grouping' idea but when you look at my WoW play, I play grouped for about 50% of the time when I am active (ie not just standing around and chatting).  This is why I consider the many 'if you make the game solo-friendly people will not group' comments to be bunk since it depends on teh type of group content that is available.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Midare

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.

 

While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.

 

His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.

 

That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

 

Highlighted what I feel many "against" solo play don't really graps, atleast that's what I think when I read yet another  "why solo" type of topic.

There is simply so much more then just group with other people in a MMORPG.

I must also admit that with older games I grouped allot more, but group mentality's have changed ALLOT, people don't want to group to let's say explore or just have fun with others, Nah today's players need rewards, better loot, better XP if they group and if grouping doesn't give them anything else then more xp or some sort of reward in what ever form they feel it's useless. I am that guy entering a PUG and ALWAY's pass, another thing is that grouping started to feel lonely when hardly anyone speaks in chat, sometimes even a hello back seemed like a impossible mission to get out of some pugs, now don't get me wrong I have met really great PUGs, unfortunaly I met MORE bad ones with examples just given.

 

Im going to get reamed for saying this, but here goes.
 

My wife is a Psych major and tells me all kinds of interesting stuff. In one of her text books it outlines this generations various attitudes about life and why a lot of todays youth have this serious issue with their sense of enitlement.

Todays younger players were born to a generation that heavily disagreed with the way they were raised. In laymans terms

"Parents are spoiling kids because they want to give their children all the things that their parents didnt give them."

This is verbatim straight out of a Psychology textbook.

Todays players are far less intune with the social aspects of life. Look at it this way, when we were kids, you had to get along with people you didnt like. If you played a team sport, played in a school band, or were even a cheerleader. 

There were a lot of kids that I didnt like that I played on sports teams with, but I had to get along with them because:

A) the coach doesnt give a shit about your petty bickering 

B) The group doing well was more important than individual egos 

C) I couldnt just pack up and move to another team simply because I didnt like mine.

On top of that todays players dont have to pay any price for being assinine. Back in the day if you were an assinine jerk, you got beat up, made fun of, and plain ostricized. However with todays internet anonimity (sp), there is no consequence to being a complete jerk to everyone around you. So why wouldnt you expect them to try to be better human being?

Younger players have everything catered their way. Its a trend thats to blame on companies who want that large disposable teenage income that they know parents are giving their kids. Compared to those of us who are 30+ grew up, its a brave new world devoid of consequences for actions toward others, its a world where kids really think the world owes them something for nothing, and frankly todays MMO's are an excellent example of that.

It will be very interesting to see how this generation will turn out. 

There is no point other than people want to and you won't find the logic in it because there is none.

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Midare

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.

 

While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.

 

His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.

 

That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

 

Highlighted what I feel many "against" solo play don't really graps, atleast that's what I think when I read yet another  "why solo" type of topic.

There is simply so much more then just group with other people in a MMORPG.

I must also admit that with older games I grouped allot more, but group mentality's have changed ALLOT, people don't want to group to let's say explore or just have fun with others, Nah today's players need rewards, better loot, better XP if they group and if grouping doesn't give them anything else then more xp or some sort of reward in what ever form they feel it's useless. I am that guy entering a PUG and ALWAY's pass, another thing is that grouping started to feel lonely when hardly anyone speaks in chat, sometimes even a hello back seemed like a impossible mission to get out of some pugs, now don't get me wrong I have met really great PUGs, unfortunaly I met MORE bad ones with examples just given.

 

Im going to get reamed for saying this, but here goes.
 

My wife is a Psych major and tells me all kinds of interesting stuff. In one of her text books it outlines this generations various attitudes about life and why a lot of todays youth have this serious issue with their sense of enitlement.

Todays younger players were born to a generation that heavily disagreed with the way they were raised. In laymans terms

"Parents are spoiling kids because they want to give their children all the things that their parents didnt give them."

This is verbatim straight out of a Psychology textbook.

Todays players are far less intune with the social aspects of life. Look at it this way, when we were kids, you had to get along with people you didnt like. If you played a team sport, played in a school band, or were even a cheerleader. 

There were a lot of kids that I didnt like that I played on sports teams with, but I had to get along with them because:

A) the coach doesnt give a shit about your petty bickering 

B) The group doing well was more important than individual egos 

C) I couldnt just pack up and move to another team simply because I didnt like mine.

On top of that todays players dont have to pay any price for being assinine. Back in the day if you were an assinine jerk, you got beat up, made fun of, and plain ostricized. However with todays internet anonimity (sp), there is no consequence to being a complete jerk to everyone around you. So why wouldnt you expect them to try to be better human being?

Younger players have everything catered their way. Its a trend thats to blame on companies who want that large disposable teenage income that they know parents are giving their kids. Compared to those of us who are 30+ grew up, its a brave new world devoid of consequences for actions toward others, its a world where kids really think the world owes them something for nothing, and frankly todays MMO's are an excellent example of that.

It will be very interesting to see how this generation will turn out. 

 

Me, I was a spoiled kid. Deeply spoiled kid. Not a stupid one, though. However, because of, well, things, I studied in a group, where everyone, but three kids were two years older, than me.

Think about it for a moment.

Most kids, let's be honest, learn their first social lessons in school. How to act, how not to act, whom to hag out with, things like that. However, because of our age, we always were of a "lower sort" in a sense. Maybe because of that, I crave company so much?

"Spoils" wear off in time. I'm twenty, I don't know what kind of an MMO I would enjoy then. I'm not sure, however, if I would prefer "silver platter" deals.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Midare

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.

 

While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.

 

His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.

 

That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

 

Highlighted what I feel many "against" solo play don't really graps, atleast that's what I think when I read yet another  "why solo" type of topic.

There is simply so much more then just group with other people in a MMORPG.

I must also admit that with older games I grouped allot more, but group mentality's have changed ALLOT, people don't want to group to let's say explore or just have fun with others, Nah today's players need rewards, better loot, better XP if they group and if grouping doesn't give them anything else then more xp or some sort of reward in what ever form they feel it's useless. I am that guy entering a PUG and ALWAY's pass, another thing is that grouping started to feel lonely when hardly anyone speaks in chat, sometimes even a hello back seemed like a impossible mission to get out of some pugs, now don't get me wrong I have met really great PUGs, unfortunaly I met MORE bad ones with examples just given.

 

Im going to get reamed for saying this, but here goes.
 

My wife is a Psych major and tells me all kinds of interesting stuff. In one of her text books it outlines this generations various attitudes about life and why a lot of todays youth have this serious issue with their sense of enitlement.

Todays younger players were born to a generation that heavily disagreed with the way they were raised. In laymans terms

"Parents are spoiling kids because they want to give their children all the things that their parents didnt give them."

This is verbatim straight out of a Psychology textbook.

Todays players are far less intune with the social aspects of life. Look at it this way, when we were kids, you had to get along with people you didnt like. If you played a team sport, played in a school band, or were even a cheerleader. 

There were a lot of kids that I didnt like that I played on sports teams with, but I had to get along with them because:

A) the coach doesnt give a shit about your petty bickering 

B) The group doing well was more important than individual egos 

C) I couldnt just pack up and move to another team simply because I didnt like mine.

On top of that todays players dont have to pay any price for being assinine. Back in the day if you were an assinine jerk, you got beat up, made fun of, and plain ostricized. However with todays internet anonimity (sp), there is no consequence to being a complete jerk to everyone around you. So why wouldnt you expect them to try to be better human being?

Younger players have everything catered their way. Its a trend thats to blame on companies who want that large disposable teenage income that they know parents are giving their kids. Compared to those of us who are 30+ grew up, its a brave new world devoid of consequences for actions toward others, its a world where kids really think the world owes them something for nothing, and frankly todays MMO's are an excellent example of that.

It will be very interesting to see how this generation will turn out. 

 

Me, I was a spoiled kid. Deeply spoiled kid. Not a stupid one, though. However, because of, well, things, I studied in a group, where everyone, but three kids were two years older, than me.

Think about it for a moment.

Most kids, let's be honest, learn their first social lessons in school. How to act, how not to act, whom to hag out with, things like that. However, because of our age, we always were of a "lower sort" in a sense. Maybe because of that, I crave company so much?

"Spoils" wear off in time. I'm twenty, I don't know what kind of an MMO I would enjoy then. I'm not sure, however, if I would prefer "silver platter" deals.

There are exceptions to every rule, but again, look at how certain people responded to your OP. Then go back and look at their age. Theres a connection there.
 

p.s. Thats not to say there arent plenty of ass hats 30+, but Ive always had far less of a problem getting along with people that are older as opposed to younger.

Eventually a lot of younger players will grow out of it, and just like me, will look back and say "wow I really was a know it all douche bag at that age."

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

I dont think the solution is banishing soloing, I wont lie, Ive done plenty of it in my day. However I think the problem lies in the fact that if everyone solos, it will make grouping obsolete. I prefer to group, however with soloing becoming more and more common place, it takes away from the pool of players who you could potentially be grouping with.

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

Ditto.

There is a difference between soloing in a solo game and soloing in an MMO.

I'm afraid OP it doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand this and let's be frank this is a bi-weekly post so some people are probably  getting a bit bored of it.  I think it's also very dubious of you to bring ageism into it. I assure you I come from a generation that respects others rights to be different if they aren't harming you, then again maybe that's cultural?  I would bet a fair bit of money I am older than you.

If it's truly a case of why see the quote - this is why for me.

Originally posted by Nefiti

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

 

Ditto.

There is a difference between soloing in a solo game and soloing in an MMO.

I'm afraid OP it doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand this and let's be frank this is a bi-weekly post so some people are probably  getting a bit bored of it.  I think it's also very dubious of you to bring ageism into it. I assure you I come from a generation that respects others rights to be different if they aren't harming you, then again maybe that's cultural?  I would bet a fair bit of money I am older than you.

If it's truly a case of why see the quote - this is why for me.

 

You haven't read the thread, have you? I actually changed my mind during the discussion and have no problem with soloers now. Going to add that to the disclaimer...

P.S. How old are you? I'm just curious, really. And no, this is not sarcasm, I just don't use smileys.

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

 

I dont think the solution is banishing soloing, I wont lie, Ive done plenty of it in my day. However I think the problem lies in the fact that if everyone solos, it will make grouping obsolete. I prefer to group, however with soloing becoming more and more common place, it takes away from the pool of players who you could potentially be grouping with.

 

I doubt it wil ever be a problem because MMO designers will continue to follow the raid and faction pvp design model. That doesn't really encourage total soloing.

Of course the real reason it won't happen is that people want different things from life and games, that means there will be plenty of players like yourself who prefer or like grouping enough to make it essential as part of the game design/model and genuinely good luck to you. 

Again I would bet a lot of money on this.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

To put it simply people like and enjoy playing solo because they don't have to rely on others to get the job done. One of the most dreaded things in MMO's is the pug. They more or less end with someone pissed off halfway through a quest or whatever then break apart. When you solo its all you. You can make sure it gets done with a much higher chance then if you are relying on others to do it.

This is it.  Also because you can't rely on players 24/7.  Most games design themselves around having to rely on others, which is faulty considering you'll be playing alone a lot of the time, unless you're in one of those "elite" raiding clans that forces each-other to be on at specific times through peer pressure.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Nefiti

Originally posted by stormpuma21

 I enjoy solo'ing in an mmo because, i may be on my own ventures but, i can see other "real" people running past me. People populating the environment around me and providing ambience definitely breaks up the solitude. I think i just "happen" to play solo but i enjoy others around. Even if i dont socialize with them.

I play at a much slower pace than others and too often, everyone is rushing towards their objective. I like to kill every mob on the way to the quest objective sometime, and roleplay with my character inside of my own head lol. Play the game however you like to right? 

 

Ditto.

There is a difference between soloing in a solo game and soloing in an MMO.

I'm afraid OP it doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand this and let's be frank this is a bi-weekly post so some people are probably  getting a bit bored of it.  I think it's also very dubious of you to bring ageism into it. I assure you I come from a generation that respects others rights to be different if they aren't harming you, then again maybe that's cultural?  I would bet a fair bit of money I am older than you.

If it's truly a case of why see the quote - this is why for me.

 

You haven't read the thread, have you? I actually changed my mind during the discussion and have no problem with soloers now. Going to add that to the disclaimer...

P.S. How old are you? I'm just curious, really. And no, this is not sarcasm, I just don't use smileys.

Nope as I said it's a bi-weekly question however I did read the post from you indicating it's an age thing, kids being spoiled these days, like they weren't in mine. In my 40's.

I suspect I've teamed with a wide range of ages, I do team occassionally and even join guilds and clans but solo about 80% of the time. In a clan/guild I only team to help others but also am happy to craft for others.

As the person whom I quoted said it's nice to play at my own pace, depending on the game I sometime just like to stop and stare at the 'scenery' a thing that a lot of groups don't have time for.

I like to solo mainly to avoid people like the op.