Originally posted by Goronian

There we go again...

I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.

Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.

This is a terrible analogy. One, if they are "absolutely identical" then one doesn't lack meat. That's one place where you're wrong. A solo player isn't "missing" anything except maybe the annoyance that the typical anonymous online player personifies. Most online players are not teens clinging to other teens acting in an equally stupid manner, we just see those teens most often because they are loud and attention whoring. As the most noticable group, they appear to be the majority.

A better analogy is that you have 2 burgers, absolutely identical. One you can eat how you'd like, by yourself or with friends, in a noisy place or in a quiet place - however you choose and at your own pace. The other you can only eat in a group of idiot strangers who mispronounce everything they say, tell you which condiments you should use and how much of each, how fast you should eat, acting like total jerkwads, and obsessing over monogendered sexual practices. 

1) People only usually bring up "discussions" like this because they don't agree with one side of the argument or the other and want to illicit responses, usually strong and negative responses. Candy coat it all that you like, but most people are going to see it as trolling, and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

2) You don't have to understand, agree with, or even like someone else's opinions or preferences, you just have to respect them.

3) Soloing is a perfectly valid playstyle in MMOGs.

If you're issue is, like many others, that designing MMOGs to cater to people that enjoy soloing ruins the game for people who enjoy grouping, then you are wrong. What ruins a game's design are the choices the designers make. If they can't design a game that caters to both group players and solo players without compromising the gameplay of either to the point where either or both are "broken", then that is their fault. They should either pick one or the other or go back to the drawing board. To be honest though I can't really point to any cases where this is truly an issue. I know a lot of people would *like* to point the finger at soloing as the devil that destroys their favorite MMOG, but the fact is that it's not as big a deal as they would have people believe.

---

Originally posted by Midare

 

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.
 
While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.
 
His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.
 
That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

---

See, this is what I was talking about. This, I can actually get behind - treating MMOs like world, instead of games, where a variety of activities are encouraged. I don't think I would mind solo as much, if more people had this kind of a mindset.
My only problem is, that we don't see a lot of games like that these days. Most people I played with (on RP servers, mind you) told me to "lvl faster", so we could "raid together (insert random smiley here)".

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

 

I like soloing because I don't have to wait for other people to turn up to group with.
I like soloing because I don't have to wait while other people go /afk.
I like soloing because I can go /afk whenever I want without negatively affecting others.
I like soloing because it is more interactive than performing a group role.
My guild channel does not require me to be in a group.
My ventrilo channel does not require me to be in a group.
For a gamer with limited playing time, soloing is the most accessible content. Thanks to the communication tools available I can solo without losing the social interaction which marks the primary difference between an MMO and a single player game.

---

Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?

---

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

 

Perhaps it's something beyond your ability to understand. This isn't a slam on you, but not everybody can be rocket scientists.

---

I'm studying to be a linguist. Yeah, I'm pretty solid, that I won't ever be a rocket scientist.

---

Originally posted by fyerwall

 

People who like to solo usually do so because they may not have the time to invest in finding a group or sticking with a group. Like if the player only has say about an hour to play at that given time. For them its less of a hassel to solo than it is to bother grouping.
Also, sometimes they maybe just dont want to deal with others at that given time, but do want to accomplish some small task in the game.
And just because someone is soloing doesnt mean they are playing alone. Some people might be fighting alone, but also talking in guild chat or via tells to friends.
Its all personal preference really. Its kinda like asking whats the point of MMO gear grinding? Your just really grinding gear that you will be most likely replacing a few days later. Or whats the point of MMO raiding? Sure the first time you clear a dungeon its awesome, but then you have to do it a bajillion more times because thats pretty much all there is to do.
I myself enjoy soloing in MMOs, because grouping can become tedious with waiting for people to come back from afk or a run to town, etc. And then you have the really anti social people who never talk in group, save for the random 'lol' or 'pull'.
Also with current MMOs the content goes by way too fast, specially while grouping. Some people like to take thier time and make a game last because the race to endgame really isnt a reason to play for them.

---

Irony #1: It's easier to level solo in modern MMOs.
Irony #2: There are single player games, for people with limited free time.

---

Originally posted by conanaras

 

Let me reshape your question.

I fail to see the point of MMO not allowing the option of soloing, while encouranging group play.
Solo is an option, and more options are always welcome. Group play should not be the only way to progress in the leveling process, but rather there should be incentives to promote it.

---

Again, yes, solo play should be there, for the people, who enjoy it and while you're waitig for a group. But I'm asking for why they enjoy, not arguing for it being/not being there.

I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?" That's what really boggles me.

Originally posted by jjmason

Originally posted by Goronian

There we go again...

I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.

Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.

 

This is a terrible analogy. One, if they are "absolutely identical" then one doesn't lack meat. That's one place where you're wrong. A solo player isn't "missing" anything except maybe the annoyance that the typical anonymous online player personifies. Most online players are not teens clinging to other teens acting in an equally stupid manner, we just see those teens most often because they are loud and attention whoring. As the most noticable group, they appear to be the majority.

A better analogy is that you have 2 burgers, absolutely identical. One you can eat how you'd like, by yourself or with friends, in a noisy place or in a quiet place - however you choose and at your own pace. The other you can only eat in a group of idiot strangers who mispronounce everything they say, tell you which condiments you should use and how much of each, how fast you should eat, acting like total jerkwads, and obsessing over monogendered sexual practices. 

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I was not comparing group MMO VS solo MMO, but rather single-player RPG VS solo MMO. 

Originally posted by Goronian

 

---

Originally posted by Midare

 

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.
 
While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.
 
His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.
 
That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

---

See, this is what I was talking about. This, I can actually get behind - treating MMOs like world, instead of games, where a variety of activities are encouraged. I don't think I would mind solo as much, if more people had this kind of a mindset.
My only problem is, that we don't see a lot of games like that these days. Most people I played with (on RP servers, mind you) told me to "lvl faster", so we could "raid together (insert random smiley here)".

 

 

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

 

I like soloing because I don't have to wait for other people to turn up to group with.
I like soloing because I don't have to wait while other people go /afk.
I like soloing because I can go /afk whenever I want without negatively affecting others.
I like soloing because it is more interactive than performing a group role.
My guild channel does not require me to be in a group.
My ventrilo channel does not require me to be in a group.
For a gamer with limited playing time, soloing is the most accessible content. Thanks to the communication tools available I can solo without losing the social interaction which marks the primary difference between an MMO and a single player game.

---

Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?

 

 

---

Originally posted by FreddyNoNose

 

Perhaps it's something beyond your ability to understand. This isn't a slam on you, but not everybody can be rocket scientists.

---

I'm studying to be a linguist. Yeah, I'm pretty solid, that I won't ever be a rocket scientist.

 

 

---

Originally posted by fyerwall

 

People who like to solo usually do so because they may not have the time to invest in finding a group or sticking with a group. Like if the player only has say about an hour to play at that given time. For them its less of a hassel to solo than it is to bother grouping.
Also, sometimes they maybe just dont want to deal with others at that given time, but do want to accomplish some small task in the game.
And just because someone is soloing doesnt mean they are playing alone. Some people might be fighting alone, but also talking in guild chat or via tells to friends.
Its all personal preference really. Its kinda like asking whats the point of MMO gear grinding? Your just really grinding gear that you will be most likely replacing a few days later. Or whats the point of MMO raiding? Sure the first time you clear a dungeon its awesome, but then you have to do it a bajillion more times because thats pretty much all there is to do.
I myself enjoy soloing in MMOs, because grouping can become tedious with waiting for people to come back from afk or a run to town, etc. And then you have the really anti social people who never talk in group, save for the random 'lol' or 'pull'.
Also with current MMOs the content goes by way too fast, specially while grouping. Some people like to take thier time and make a game last because the race to endgame really isnt a reason to play for them.

---

 

Irony #1: It's easier to level solo in modern MMOs.
Irony #2: There are single player games, for people with limited free time.

 

---

Originally posted by conanaras

 

Let me reshape your question.

I fail to see the point of MMO not allowing the option of soloing, while encouranging group play.
Solo is an option, and more options are always welcome. Group play should not be the only way to progress in the leveling process, but rather there should be incentives to promote it.

---

Again, yes, solo play should be there, for the people, who enjoy it and while you're waitig for a group. But I'm asking for why they enjoy, not arguing for it being/not being there.

 

I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?" That's what really boggles me.

i have to admit, you have a really polite way of saying to soloers "piss off my mmo and go play a single player game". I havent seen anything from you except "single player games are better for you". guess what, people will solo in "your" mmo and theres nothing you can do about it.

Originally posted by Darkholme

1) People only usually bring up "discussions" like this because they don't agree with one side of the argument or the other and want to illicit responses, usually strong and negative responses. Candy coat it all that you like, but most people are going to see it as trolling, and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

2) You don't have to understand, agree with, or even like someone else's opinions or preferences, you just have to respect them.

3) Soloing is a perfectly valid playstyle in MMOGs.

If you're issue is, like many others, that designing MMOGs to cater to people that enjoy soloing ruins the game for people who enjoy grouping, then you are wrong. What ruins a game's design are the choices the designers make. If they can't design a game that caters to both group players and solo players without compromising the gameplay of either to the point where either or both are "broken", then that is their fault. They should either pick one or the other or go back to the drawing board. To be honest though I can't really point to any cases where this is truly an issue. I know a lot of people would *like* to point the finger at soloing as the devil that destroys their favorite MMOG, but the fact is that it's not as big a deal as they would have people believe.

See, again, not exactly the case. I don't debate the necessity of soloing in MMORPGs, I can ge behind it. PUGs can be a reall mess and looking for a normal one takes time. Not only that, but sometimes, you just want to cut all ties with people, just for once.

What I do not understand, are people, who actively like soloing MMOs, as opposed to playing single-player RPG, to get much the same experience, only of a much higher quality, oftentimes for less money. And again, I do not say "g0 out f r gamezz, n00bz!", hell no. I just want to understand what do they enjoy in MMOs, since I can't seem to "get" into one. I want to know if I had the wrong mindset, not them.

If you are suggesting that all content, quest, raids etc should only be done by people in groups, then good luck with that.

I agree MMO's are more fun in groups, but i also know that finding groups isnt always easy, biggest reason is, people are

in a hurry to level and once they do something once they move on,  i go days trying to find people to do my group quest with.

Im glad i am able to level up doing quest with out having to find a group to do each one.

Now raids are always done in groups, as far as i know .. so most MMO's have group content and solo conten, Most quest

are soloable, and they also have a good amount of group quest to do .. but not where u cant keep leveling if you cant find a group.

so what do u want, no solo play at all ?  guess i dont understand your line of thought here.

>Why? What draws you in?

Lets see:

1) want a game I can play with friends

2) me and my friends do like RPG type games, so MMORPGs are interesting for us.

3) me and my friends are not always logged at same time, but I would still be able to play the very same game because  I like it, but:

4) when my friends not there, I dont necessarily want to pug, or to wait for a complete group to form, or dont have a lot of time, thus it is nice to have the option to solo.

Its all about flexibility of playing the way I want, when I want, when I can, etc. Solo play provides this flexibility. And when my friends are online and we have the time, I can play with them, OMG!  I like to group too!  What's wrong with me!

Originally posted by Toquio3

Originally posted by Goronian

Cut

 

i have to admit, you have a really polite way of saying to soloers "piss off my mmo and go play a single player game". I havent seen anything from you except "single player games are better for you". guess what, people will solo in "your" mmo and theres nothing you can do about it.

Nah, it's not even that. I don't have "my" MMO, and never had, been jumping from the day I first left Russian EQII in 2007, when I got bored of almost exclusive soloplay, although I did manage to find some good PUGs. Never been able to get past level 40 in a game since. I just stated to wonder, if the whole time the genre was not for me and I was wasting my money, since, well, I've enjoyed single-player games much more, than I've enjoyed most MMOs I've played, which led me to this thread. Since I spend 90% of my MMO play time solo... Well, I can also be called a soloer, can't I?

Originally posted by Goronian  

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

 I like soloing because I don't have to wait for other people to turn up to group with.
I like soloing because I don't have to wait while other people go /afk.
I like soloing because I can go /afk whenever I want without negatively affecting others.
I like soloing because it is more interactive than performing a group role.
My guild channel does not require me to be in a group.
My ventrilo channel does not require me to be in a group.
For a gamer with limited playing time, soloing is the most accessible content. Thanks to the communication tools available I can solo without losing the social interaction which marks the primary difference between an MMO and a single player game.

---

Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?

Yup, I also play single player games.

Current ones are Dragon Age, Borderlands and Gran Turismo PSP.

I like MMOs because, while playing the game, I am surrounded by other people who are also playing the game. It's common ground. There's a lot of game-related discussion. There's also quite a bit of casual grouping which, if I have the time and inclination, I join in on occasion.

Why is soloing VS grouping such a big debate in MMOs?

Its a debate because 90% people who play MMOs these days only focus on the Game part of MMORPG and totally forget about the Role Playing part.

People who bring up questions like this are poor role player.  A poor role player is one he thinks other players should react and play the game the way the want it to be played.  Poor role-players are the ones who say 'I walk in to the room and everybody quakes in fear at my presense'.

I solo because thats is how I like to play my toons.  That is how I am in real life.  MMORPGs to me arn't about social networking they are about me playing a character trying to make his/her way in a virtual world.  Just because I don't like to group doesn't mean I should just go play a single player game. 

I think its ignorant of Game Developers to assume and force players to group to complete objectives. 

Game developers force grouping to get thier players to recruit more people to come play which means more money for the company. 

Game Developers themselves arn't worried about the lore of thier games they do it because of the money they will make. 

---

Originally posted by dopplemmo

>Why? What draws you in?
Lets see:
1) want a game I can play with friends
2) me and my friends do like RPG type games, so MMORPGs are interesting for us.
3) me and my friends are not always logged at same time, but I would still be able to play the very same game because  I like it, but:
4) when my friends not there, I dont necessarily want to pug, or to wait for a complete group to form, or dont have a lot of time, thus it is nice to have the option to solo.
Its all about flexibility of playing the way I want, when I want, when I can, etc. Solo play provides this flexibility. And when my friends are online and we have the time, I can play with them, OMG!  I like to group too!  What's wrong with me!
 

---

And by the way, I don't have RL friends, willing to learn English or pay monthly fees. Yeah...

---

Originally posted by Mischiff

If you are suggesting that all content, quest, raids etc should only be done by people in groups, then good luck with that.
I agree MMO's are more fun in groups, but i also know that finding groups isnt always easy, biggest reason is, people are
in a hurry to level and once they do something once they move on, i go days trying to find people to do my group quest with.
Im glad i am able to level up doing quest with out having to find a group to do each one.
Now raids are always done in groups, as far as i know .. so most MMO's have group content and solo conten, Most quest
are soloable, and they also have a good amount of group quest to do .. but not where u cant keep leveling if you cant find a group.

so what do u want, no solo play at all ? guess i dont understand your line of thought here.

---

That's a whole another issue, not with players, but with companies themselves - spacing content in such a way, that the most interesting and "fun" parts are at the end, rather then during actually getting to that "end".

Originally posted by Frostbite05

To put it simply people like and enjoy playing solo because they don't have to rely on others to get the job done. One of the most dreaded things in MMO's is the pug. They more or less end with someone pissed off halfway through a quest or whatever then break apart. When you solo its all you. You can make sure it gets done with a much higher chance then if you are relying on others to do it.

This. Some of us are just independent within this aspect. The second reason being choices, sometimes its fun to just jump on, kick back, relax, and play casually and sometimes you do go on there for the social aspect. It also depends on the game as well, some MMOs the group system and social mechanics are so horrible that you don't even bother, but still play the game cause its fun.

Originally posted by Goronian

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Originally posted by fyerwall

 

People who like to solo usually do so because they may not have the time to invest in finding a group or sticking with a group. Like if the player only has say about an hour to play at that given time. For them its less of a hassel to solo than it is to bother grouping.
Also, sometimes they maybe just dont want to deal with others at that given time, but do want to accomplish some small task in the game.
And just because someone is soloing doesnt mean they are playing alone. Some people might be fighting alone, but also talking in guild chat or via tells to friends.
Its all personal preference really. Its kinda like asking whats the point of MMO gear grinding? Your just really grinding gear that you will be most likely replacing a few days later. Or whats the point of MMO raiding? Sure the first time you clear a dungeon its awesome, but then you have to do it a bajillion more times because thats pretty much all there is to do.
I myself enjoy soloing in MMOs, because grouping can become tedious with waiting for people to come back from afk or a run to town, etc. And then you have the really anti social people who never talk in group, save for the random 'lol' or 'pull'.
Also with current MMOs the content goes by way too fast, specially while grouping. Some people like to take thier time and make a game last because the race to endgame really isnt a reason to play for them.

---

 

Irony #1: It's easier to level solo in modern MMOs.
Irony #2: There are single player games, for people with limited free time.

Its not an irony that people with limited time like to play MMOs. Just because they have limited time does not mean they should only stick to single player games. But you have missed the point completely. Just because someone has limited play time at that given moment (as I said in my reply) doesnt mean they wont group when they have more time. Basically what you are saying is that people who have limited time to play shouldnt bother playing an MMO only for that fact that you dont understand their choice to do so.

As for the Irony #1: The fact that games are designed currently with solo being an easier way to level is a fault of the game designers. But what you again missed is the fact that most solo players are not technically playing solo. They play MMOs for the social interaction taht comes with the genre. No where does social mean being constantly grouped. These players do communicate with others (friends or guildies or even chat in public channels).

Just because a player such as yourself has ample time to spend playing an MMO on a daily basis does not mean that people who have actual real life duties should be swayed away from the genre. If people with limited time stopped playing MMOs you would see a huge chunk of a games population drop. Thats when people will start complaining about server merges and the such.

As for the single player arguement; Your average single player game has about 15-25 hours worth of content. An MMO has an endless amount of content (counting lore, crafting, etc). $15 a month for an MMO subscription is better than having to pay $50 every 30 hours for a new single player game. Also in single player games you have pretty much 1 style of play. MMOs offer several styles, usually in 1 game (PvP, PvE, Crafting, Harvesting, RPing with other players, etc) which again makes it a far better value than a single player game going by the purchase versus subscription basis.

But judging by the overall tone of your posts you are not really interested in the 'reasons' behind the choice of solo play. You are looking more for a soapbox to help point out that solo play should not a viable option in MMOs.

Originally posted by Midare

Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.

 

While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.

 

His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.

 

That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.

Highlighted what I feel many "against" solo play don't really graps, atleast that's what I think when I read yet another  "why solo" type of topic.

There is simply so much more then just group with other people in a MMORPG.

I must also admit that with older games I grouped allot more, but group mentality's have changed ALLOT, people don't want to group to let's say explore or just have fun with others, Nah today's players need rewards, better loot, better XP if they group and if grouping doesn't give them anything else then more xp or some sort of reward in what ever form they feel it's useless. I am that guy entering a PUG and ALWAY's pass, another thing is that grouping started to feel lonely when hardly anyone speaks in chat, sometimes even a hello back seemed like a impossible mission to get out of some pugs, now don't get me wrong I have met really great PUGs, unfortunaly I met MORE bad ones with examples just given.

Originally posted by Jixx

Why is soloing VS grouping such a big debate in MMOs?

Its a debate because 90% people who play MMOs these days only focus on the Game part of MMORPG and totally forget about the Role Playing part.

People who bring up questions like this are poor role player.  A poor role player is one he thinks other players should react and play the game the way the want it to be played.  Poor role-players are the ones who say 'I walk in to the room and everybody quakes in fear at my presense'.

I solo because thats is how I like to play my toons.  That is how I am in real life.  MMORPGs to me arn't about social networking they are about me playing a character trying to make his/her way in a virtual world.  Just because I don't like to group doesn't mean I should just go play a single player game. 

I think its ignorant of Game Developers to assume and force players to group to complete objectives. 

Game developers force grouping to get thier players to recruit more people to come play which means more money for the company. 

Game Developers themselves arn't worried about the lore of thier games they do it because of the money they will make. 

 

 

Believe it or not, I'm a roleplayer as well. And I've remembered a point I made before - core gameplay in MMOs sucks. That's why social interaction is a major part of it. Can you really RP without interacting with people?

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Goronian  

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

 I like soloing because I don't have to wait for other people to turn up to group with.
I like soloing because I don't have to wait while other people go /afk.
I like soloing because I can go /afk whenever I want without negatively affecting others.
I like soloing because it is more interactive than performing a group role.
My guild channel does not require me to be in a group.
My ventrilo channel does not require me to be in a group.
For a gamer with limited playing time, soloing is the most accessible content. Thanks to the communication tools available I can solo without losing the social interaction which marks the primary difference between an MMO and a single player game.

---

Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?

Yup, I also play single player games.

Current ones are Dragon Age, Borderlands and Gran Turismo PSP.

I like MMOs because, while playing the game, I am surrounded by other people who are also playing the game. It's common ground. There's a lot of game-related discussion. There's also quite a bit of casual grouping which, if I have the time and inclination, I join in on occasion.

Fair enough. I can get behind your reasoning. That's the kind of answers I wanted to hear.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Jixx

Why is soloing VS grouping such a big debate in MMOs?

Its a debate because 90% people who play MMOs these days only focus on the Game part of MMORPG and totally forget about the Role Playing part.

People who bring up questions like this are poor role player.  A poor role player is one he thinks other players should react and play the game the way the want it to be played.  Poor role-players are the ones who say 'I walk in to the room and everybody quakes in fear at my presense'.

I solo because thats is how I like to play my toons.  That is how I am in real life.  MMORPGs to me arn't about social networking they are about me playing a character trying to make his/her way in a virtual world.  Just because I don't like to group doesn't mean I should just go play a single player game. 

I think its ignorant of Game Developers to assume and force players to group to complete objectives. 

Game developers force grouping to get thier players to recruit more people to come play which means more money for the company. 

Game Developers themselves arn't worried about the lore of thier games they do it because of the money they will make. 

 

 

Believe it or not, I'm a roleplayer as well. And I've remembered a point I made before - core gameplay in MMOs sucks. That's why social interaction is a major part of it. Can you really RP without interacting with people?

Again, what does soloing have to do with interaction?

People who play solo do still infact interact with others, just not the way you would like.

Social interaction does not mean having to play in groups.

Look at it this way; You, I and the rest of the people here are interacting socially. We are not all in teh same place, and most likely not doing the same thing. But we are all on the same site and communicating in a thread. This is social interaction, and is the same thing as solo play.

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Originally posted by Reklaw

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Originally posted by Midare

Cut

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Highlighted what I feel many "against" solo play don't really graps, atleast that's what I think when I read yet another  "why solo" type of topic.
There is simply so much more then just group with other people in a MMORPG.
I must also admit that with older games I grouped allot more, but group mentality's have changed ALLOT, people don't want to group to let's say explore or just have fun with others, Nah today's players need rewards, better loot, better XP if they group and if grouping doesn't give them anything else then more xp or some sort of reward in what ever form they feel it's useless. I am that guy entering a PUG and ALWAY's pass, another thing is that grouping started to feel lonely when hardly anyone speaks in chat, sometimes even a hello back seemed like a impossible mission to get out of some pugs, now don't get me wrong I have met really great PUGs, unfortunaly I met MORE bad ones with examples just given.
 

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Again, can get behind this reasoning. Well, it seems I was wrong in the end, the solo is not the problem, but rather lack of proper community, maybe? Or lack of my ability to find one?

Now that I think of it, the most fun I have in MMOs, is when I talk with someone, the game being mostly in the background. Or RP, but this is a dying art these days. I guess solo/group play doesn't matter this much, after all, but rather the quality of it.

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Jixx

 

Believe it or not, I'm a roleplayer as well. And I've remembered a point I made before - core gameplay in MMOs sucks. That's why social interaction is a major part of it. Can you really RP without interacting with people?

 

Again, what does soloing have to do with interaction?

People who play solo do still infact interact with others, just not the way you would like.

Social interaction does not mean having to play in groups.

Look at it this way; You, I and the rest of the people here are interacting socially. We are not all in teh same place, and most likely not doing the same thing. But we are all on the same site and communicating in a thread. This is social interaction, and is the same thing as solo play.

True. Guess I was blaming the wrong thing then.